512 réponses à ce sujet

[Dubozz]

I think fighting the reapers must be something like God of war or Dragon dogma boss fights in terms of scale or mechanics. Fighting Reaper on tuchanka was really satisfying.

Modifié par Dubozz, 04 janvier 2013 - 02:19 .

[SpamBot2000]

I've had enough boss fights in games I've recently played to not really crave for more, but the trilogy should have had some sort of a climax and end on a high. A boss fight is a proven form of climactic game finale, that's all.

And to the people who wonder why so much is made of a silly comment like 'too video gamey': It's in these unguarded little pronouncements that we find out about how someone thinks. And for a director of a massively ambitious video game project to use the word 'video game' in a derogatory sense is not a good sign. Clearly Mr. Hudson has Hollywood aspirations that cloud his vision of the medium he is working in. And so we get autodialogued out of the whole identification thing that is supposed to be the point of RPGs, because the director is eager to show off his 'cinematic' chops.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 04 janvier 2013 - 01:56 .

[Someone With Mass]

Oh, the pretentiousness goes off the scale, into space, reaches the Andromeda galaxy and then the definition of the word becomes known to all its inhabitants for all eternity whenever the "too video gamey" argument is brought up.

It also shows a lack of imagination, since a boss fight can be more than just shooting it until it's dead, as well as a great misunderstanding about who the true main boss of ME3 should have been.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 04 janvier 2013 - 02:14 .

[Rosstoration]

 Found this on another forum:



Is this turning into another joke at the expense of Mass Effect 3?

Modifié par Rosstoration, 04 janvier 2013 - 02:19 .

[Peranor]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Oh, the pretentiousness goes off the scale, into space, reaches the Andromeda galaxy and then the definition of the word becomes known to all its inhabitants for all eternity whenever the "too video gamey" argument is brought up.

It also shows a lack of imagination, since a boss fight can be more than just shooting it until it's dead, as well as a great misunderstanding about who the true main boss of ME3 should have been.

True 

[spirosz]

I don't think they should of used the words "too video gamey" because I actually agree with their mindset towards it. If it doesn't feel right to include it in their story (like Diana Allers, oh wait), then their would be no need to include it, but their is nothing wrong with boss fights because they can be done in varying ways, which can unique to the context of the story at hand.

[ElSuperGecko]

Enjoyed the boss fights with Saren, the Thorian and Benezia in ME1.

Enjoyed the boss fights with the proto-Reaper, the Thresher Maw, Tela Vasir and the Shadow Broker in ME2.

Kai Leng sucked twice in ME3.

Modifié par ElSuperGecko, 04 janvier 2013 - 02:50 .

[JBPBRC]

spirosz wrote...

I don't think they should of used the words "too video gamey" because I actually agree with their mindset towards it. If it doesn't feel right to include it in their story (like Diana Allers, oh wait), then their would be no need to include it, but their is nothing wrong with boss fights because they can be done in varying ways, which can unique to the context of the story at hand.

This. Arkham City is a good example. 

There's the "Punch them to death" bosses, and on occasion there's the "If you try to punch them to death they will proceed to manhandle you" bosses. Mr. Freeze was always my favorite boss fight in that game, because of the latter.

[Eryri]

Someone With Mass wrote...

It also shows a lack of imagination, since a boss fight can be more than just shooting it until it's dead, as well as a great misunderstanding about who the true main boss of ME3 should have been.

Agreed. There are many innovative ways a boss fight with Harbinger might have played out.

One possibility is fighting inside Harbinger while having to break through swarms of collectors acting as his immune system, with a time limit to reach and destroy his core before indoctrination incapacitates Shepard.

Another one would be taking control of the Normandy and battling him in space, though Harbinger might have to be weakened first somehow to make that a realistic fight.

Modifié par Eryri, 04 janvier 2013 - 02:57 .

[ElSuperGecko]

JBPBRC wrote...
There's the "Punch them to death" bosses, and on occasion there's the "If you try to punch them to death they will proceed to manhandle you" bosses. Mr. Freeze was always my favorite boss fight in that game, because of the latter.

There's also the hunt them down, avoid their fiendish traps and then give them a damn good kicking bosses as well.  Shoeing the Riddler and Zsasz was most satisfying.

[Someone With Mass]

JBPBRC wrote...

spirosz wrote...

I don't think they should of used the words "too video gamey" because I actually agree with their mindset towards it. If it doesn't feel right to include it in their story (like Diana Allers, oh wait), then their would be no need to include it, but their is nothing wrong with boss fights because they can be done in varying ways, which can unique to the context of the story at hand.

This. Arkham City is a good example. 

There's the "Punch them to death" bosses, and on occasion there's the "If you try to punch them to death they will proceed to manhandle you" bosses. Mr. Freeze was always my favorite boss fight in that game, because of the latter.

And then there are bosses in some RPGs that outright kills you if you don't play the battle according to their specific rules, like letting them keep inflicting status effects on you.

[JBPBRC]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...
There's the "Punch them to death" bosses, and on occasion there's the "If you try to punch them to death they will proceed to manhandle you" bosses. Mr. Freeze was always my favorite boss fight in that game, because of the latter.

There's also the hunt them down, avoid their fiendish traps and then give them a damn good kicking bosses as well.  Shoeing the Riddler and Zsasz was most satisfying.

Them too. Getting to finally beat the snot out of the Riddler after all his little tricks, and traps and mind games was extremely gratifying. If only I could've done the same to the Starbrat. 

[guacamayus]

This is one thing I agree with Casey, a lot of you seem to forget all the complaining around the proto reaper when ME2 was released. They actually listened to the bsn on this one, besides TIM reaperized looks ridiculous and it's very out of character for him.
Not that I actually like the confrontation with TIM (10 minutes talking and nothing interesting said besides the same old crap) but I sure as hell wasn't expecting to fight a giant reaperized TIM shooting lasers out of his ass.

[ElSuperGecko]

Eryri wrote...
Agreed. There are many innovative ways a boss fight with Harbinger might have played out.

One possibility is fighting inside Harbinger while having to break through swarms of collectors acting as his immune system, with a time limit to reach and destroy his core before indoctrination incapacitates Shepard.

Do want this.

It could have been a boss fight which was essentially a series of missions in and of itself.

Shuttle takes you in close.  You land on Harbinger's hull, and fight your way to an access point.

Once inside, you battle your way to Harbinger's core, fighting off Collectors and Arkham Asylum-like Scarecrow indoctrination effects.

You prime a dark matter bomb in harbinger's core, then have a free-ruinning style escape sequence where you race the clock and the enemy to the exit before it blows.

Throw in a few emotional twists and turns (someone staying behind to guard the bomb a la ME1, being betyrayed by an indoctrinated squadmate) and you're golden.

[JBPBRC]

Eryri wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

It also shows a lack of imagination, since a boss fight can be more than just shooting it until it's dead, as well as a great misunderstanding about who the true main boss of ME3 should have been.

Agreed. There are many innovative ways a boss fight with Harbinger might have played out.

One possibility is fighting inside Harbinger while having to break through swarms of collectors acting as his immune system, with a time limit to reach and destroy his core before indoctrination incapacitates Shepard.

Another one would be taking control of the Normandy and battling him in space, though Harbinger might have to be weakened first somehow to make that a realistic fight.

Destiny Ascension / Whichever Alliance fleet doesn't save the DA in ME1 unleashes holy hell on his barriers. 

Not enough to bring them down, but enough for the highly calibrated Normandy Thanix cannons to stand a chance.

[Someone With Mass]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Do want this.

It could have been a boss fight which was essentially a series of missions in and of itself.

Shuttle takes you in close.  You land on Harbinger's hull, and fight your way to an access point.

Once inside, you battle your way to Harbinger's core, fighting off Collectors and Arkham Asylum-like Scarecrow indoctrination effects.

You prime a dark matter bomb in harbinger's core, then have a free-ruinning style escape sequence where you race the clock and the enemy to the exit before it blows.

Throw in a few emotional twists and turns (someone staying behind to guard the bomb a la ME1, being betyrayed by an indoctrinated squadmate) and you're golden.

Scarecrow? How about Eternal Darkness?

Also, I'd rather not be forced to kill squadmates, since that boat set sail a long time ago.

[SimonTheFrog]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Eryri wrote...
Agreed. There are many innovative ways a boss fight with Harbinger might have played out.

One possibility is fighting inside Harbinger while having to break through swarms of collectors acting as his immune system, with a time limit to reach and destroy his core before indoctrination incapacitates Shepard.

Do want this.

It could have been a boss fight which was essentially a series of missions in and of itself.

Shuttle takes you in close.  You land on Harbinger's hull, and fight your way to an access point.

Once inside, you battle your way to Harbinger's core, fighting off Collectors and Arkham Asylum-like Scarecrow indoctrination effects.

You prime a dark matter bomb in harbinger's core, then have a free-ruinning style escape sequence where you race the clock and the enemy to the exit before it blows.

Throw in a few emotional twists and turns (someone staying behind to guard the bomb a la ME1, being betyrayed by an indoctrinated squadmate) and you're golden.

That was actually my prediction of the ME3 end back in the speculation thread after ME2.

[Wulfram]

Robot Frog Saren and Terminator Reaper Baby were both very videogamey - and also pretty bad. If they'd done robotised TIM as a boss battle, that would have been rubbish.

If the story naturally leads to a climactic showdown, that's fine. But crowbarring it in because that's the video game convention would be bad.

[Outsider edge]

Someone With Mass wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Do want this.

It could have been a boss fight which was essentially a series of missions in and of itself.

Shuttle takes you in close.  You land on Harbinger's hull, and fight your way to an access point.

Once inside, you battle your way to Harbinger's core, fighting off Collectors and Arkham Asylum-like Scarecrow indoctrination effects.

You prime a dark matter bomb in harbinger's core, then have a free-ruinning style escape sequence where you race the clock and the enemy to the exit before it blows.

Throw in a few emotional twists and turns (someone staying behind to guard the bomb a la ME1, being betyrayed by an indoctrinated squadmate) and you're golden.

Scarecrow? How about Eternal Darkness?

Also, I'd rather not be forced to kill squadmates, since that boat set sail a long time ago.

Don't see why squadmates couldn't be a part of such a fight. Bioware's characters have always been a major attraction too their games. And since Kotor with Bastilla very little has been done with potential LI's betraying you or being used against you. Think of the possibilities a Mirimancer having too decide between saving the Galaxy and defeating the reapers while an indoctrinated Miranda stands in his way.

Difficult too implement perhaps but definately something with potential.

[ElSuperGecko]

Outsider edge wrote...
Don't see why squadmates couldn't be a part of such a fight. Bioware's characters have always been a major attraction too their games. And since Kotor with Bastilla very little has been done with potential LI's betraying you or being used against you. Think of the possibilities a Mirimancer having too decide between saving the Galaxy and defeating the reapers while an indoctrinated Miranda stands in his way.

Difficult too implement perhaps but definately something with potential.

That would have had huge possibilities.  A suicide-mission style with your entire squad would be quite interesting, with you needing to choose people to perform certain tasks (cover your rear, open sealed areas, prime the charges etc) - choose wisely, or lose squadmates.

Then, instead of a boss battle, you face an indoctrinated member of your team.  The vast majority of enemies in ME3 are very basic opponents - could you imagine having to fend off the powers and abilities of some of your squadmates?  Maybe - depending on your relationship with the squadmate, finding a non-lethal way to stop them, breaking them out of indoctrination or being forced to kill them?

Combine with a sacrifice at the end guarding the bomb - I imagine Javik would be the first to volunteer should he be around, or a love interest could offer.. or Shepard could have volunteered.  Lock your team out, tell them to run... then you fight off a last wave of Collectors before the timer runs out... we see the team evacuate... and Shepard finally exorcises the ghosts of Virmire in a scene which is a flashback to Ashley/Kaidan's sacrifice...

[VirginBlack]

I think a lot of people are misunderstanding the quote and taking it out of context. It doesn't means that boss fights per se are too video gamey but rather that a particular boss fight (with the TIM near the end) would have felt forced, having a boss fight for the sake of having a boss fight instead of having it because it served the story (as was the case with the Reaper on Rannoch).

The quote clearly can't be taken as disdain for the video game medium from BioWare.

[clarkusdarkus]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

I've had enough boss fights in games I've recently played to not really crave for more, but the trilogy should have had some sort of a climax and end on a high. A boss fight is a proven form of climactic game finale, that's all.

And to the people who wonder why so much is made of a silly comment like 'too video gamey': It's in these unguarded little pronouncements that we find out about how someone thinks. And for a director of a massively ambitious video game project to use the word 'video game' in a derogatory sense is not a good sign. Clearly Mr. Hudson has Hollywood aspirations that cloud his vision of the medium he is working in. And so we get autodialogued out of the whole identification thing that is supposed to be the point of RPGs, because the director is eager to show off his 'cinematic' chops.

We have been told a couple of times how smart casey is, yet i agree with your statement that him mocking the videgame formula of boss's shows he clearly see's himself higher than those that include boss's, and i would never put casey or ME above hideo kojima and the MGS series, rpg's should include boss's as you spend all game leading upto that point, all ME3 does is confuse you as to who the real enemy is. I take it he didn't see kai leng as some sort of boss yet he could be considered one.....when a game starts with day1dlc/online pass and ends with an advertisement for dlc then the word smart doesn spring to mind. 

[clarkusdarkus]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

I've had enough boss fights in games I've recently played to not really crave for more, but the trilogy should have had some sort of a climax and end on a high. A boss fight is a proven form of climactic game finale, that's all.

And to the people who wonder why so much is made of a silly comment like 'too video gamey': It's in these unguarded little pronouncements that we find out about how someone thinks. And for a director of a massively ambitious video game project to use the word 'video game' in a derogatory sense is not a good sign. Clearly Mr. Hudson has Hollywood aspirations that cloud his vision of the medium he is working in. And so we get autodialogued out of the whole identification thing that is supposed to be the point of RPGs, because the director is eager to show off his 'cinematic' chops.

We have been told a couple of times how smart casey is, yet i agree with your statement that him mocking the videgame formula of boss's shows he clearly see's himself higher than those that include boss's, and i would never put casey or ME above hideo kojima and the MGS series, rpg's should include boss's as you spend all game leading upto that point, all ME3 does is confuse you as to who the real enemy is. I take it he didn't see kai leng as some sort of boss yet he could be considered one.....when a game starts with day1dlc/online pass and ends with an advertisement for dlc then the word smart doesnt spring to mind. I take it winning videogame awards hen trying not to be one is fine by them tho

[clarkusdarkus]

Oops double post, blame the iphone

[spirosz]

VirginBlack wrote...

I think a lot of people are misunderstanding the quote and taking it out of context. It doesn't means that boss fights per se are too video gamey but rather that a particular boss fight (with the TIM near the end) would have felt forced, having a boss fight for the sake of having a boss fight instead of having it because it served the story (as was the case with the Reaper on Rannoch).

The quote clearly can't be taken as disdain for the video game medium from BioWare.

Then they should flat out say - "a boss fight would of been inappropriate for what we were trying to achieve."  I know that's what they did say, just with a different approach, but because of the way the ending was recieved, their PR and whatever else gets spewed out, there will be different reactions from individuals and I don't blame fans for taking certain things out of context.  I don't see why it would cause a problem if they flat out said what I wrote above because developers have said similar things like including MP in our game wouldn't work, so we cut it, but we're open to future possibilities, etc.  Again, if you look at it a certain way, you could think developers might be trying to make more money from fans... haha.  

Clear communication is key. 

Modifié par spirosz, 04 janvier 2013 - 04:03 .