512 réponses à ce sujet

[Squallypo]

too video gamey too videOGAMEY!!! ;C

[Zehealingman]

''Bad Move Bioware'' got closed? :/

[liggy002]

Mark Alarton wrote...

''Bad Move Bioware'' got closed? :/

Yep, and contrary to what Ninja Stan has stated, it was discussing the game.  I'll have to respectfully disagree on that one.  I only pointed out the foolishness of thinking boss battles are too video gamey.  To me, that is one of the most fun elements of a video game.  If Bioware intends to remove that from their future DLC and games, then their games really are not for me.

[thefallen2far]

ZLurps wrote...


Okay, prove me wrong. Post end boss fight idea for ME3 that works.

Technically, anyting could work. Removing it completey relies on the story you're telling to overcome the lack of involvement, which it completely failed at.

That said:
1. The Crucible could have stunned harbinger to the ground, and then the small team of 3 go into the reaper killing husks to the brain center to destroy him.

2. Make the crucible a physical weapon like an emp for Reapers that you fire at Reapers a la MGS2

3. Indoctrination attempt. They attempt to indoctrinate you, they show you your life and the decisions you made showing you how corrupted and colatile your choices were and how the order of the silence the Reapers bring. It also gives you the sense anything you did matter, which would be kinda cool.

4. Shoot that nonsensical M Night shyamalan inspired ghost kid [that had to be the result of a brain anurism that the writer should get checked from a doctor] until you hear click on your infinate ammo gun.

5 fight the ghost vision of whoever you left on Virmire.

6. Fight a version of yorself... ghost of youself or anti version of yorself a la Superman 3.

7. Fight hulking TiM.

8. Heck fight the digital version of the game developers.... anything would be an improvement.

[dreamgazer]

When was this sweeping statement made that all boss battles are too video-gamey, folks?

[Andrew Waples]

explain to me why this got tagged?

[Omega Torsk]

This thread really needed to be stickied?

[DextroDNA]

Weird thing is... this thread's been stickied for a couple of days and another thread saying a boss fight would be bad was locked...

Are they planning on adding a boss fight in this last SP DLC or something?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Stranger things have happened. This could be about Puzzle Theory. Remember they said something in March last year: "If you knew what we had planned you'd keep your games forever."

I can think of several ways they could do this and every single one of them is foreshadowed in the series. And while it might not be a "boss fight" in the old style tradition, it would be an epic battle.

[Animositisomina]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Remember they said something in March last year: "If you knew what we had planned you'd keep your games forever."

People keep bringing this up, but come on... do you seriously think they would ever come out and say otherwise? Why would they ever say, "Delete your saves and uninstall the games, guys"? Of course they're going to tell you to keep them.

[CDRSkyShepard]

I think games like Journey where there really are no enemies, no fighting, and simple gameplay for the sake of beautiful simplicity are amazing. Seems to me that this is the kind of direction BioWare was thinking of when coming up with the concept for the way the game plays in the end.

However, Mass Effect is no Journey. You can't have a game full of video game-style action abandon all that at the very last minute and try to be something it's not. If they didn't want something video-gamey, they needed to...I dunno, make a DIFFERENT game, perhaps? XD I personally find the entire section from the beam rush onward to just be terribly dull because there is literally nothing to do. There is nothing resembling gameplay at all. It just becomes a movie you get to move (and painfully slow at that) through.

Boss fights also affect gamers psychologically in a huge way. I'd argue that a huge part of the takeaway from a game and the feeling of "winning" or "beating" the game has a lot to do with the boss fight. If you actually overcome something, you have something to feel victorious about. Going back to Journey, there is no boss fight in that game, but you have to push on through increasingly miserable conditions. That's what makes you feel like you accomplished something. With ME3, you just go through the motions, select some dialogue options, and that's it. There is absolutely nothing about that final sequence that would invoke a sense of accomplishment because there is absolutely 0 challenge in it. (Other than maybe picking your poison at the end, but even that is debatable. It feels like an arbitrary victory because you really didn't do much beyond walking to your final destination.)

[Sejborg]

I actually don't think a boss fight ending was needed.

But then again. I also didn't like the fact that every mission in DA2 ended with a fight. That's just me though.

[Enigma SS]

When something is "cliche" there's a reason it's cliche, it has worked countless times in the past. Video games usually have boss fights because they are the the true climax of the game, the "boss" is the symbol of everything you have fought for and sacrificed to get to and a good boss fight is epitome of gaming. The game just wouldn't be the same without it, having hordes come at you in the final fight like ME3 is just....underwhelming.

A boss fight doesn't have to be the traditional big monster fight but it's very difficult to do. MGS4 did a wonderful job of having a great final boss fight without a massive monster/mech at the end. Something similar could have been done with the Illusive Man without him having to transform.

Instead of trying to make the boss itself unique, if you want to be original then make the fight itself unique. Do something fun/challenging that no one else has done in a final fight; hordes of enemies coming at you is not fun at all.

[liggy002]

Animositisomina wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Remember they said something in March last year: "If you knew what we had planned you'd keep your games forever."

People keep bringing this up, but come on... do you seriously think they would ever come out and say otherwise? Why would they ever say, "Delete your saves and uninstall the games, guys"? Of course they're going to tell you to keep them.

If they really aren't planning anything, then it's better to not say anything so as to not mislead people.

[liggy002]

Enigma SS wrote...

When something is "cliche" there's a reason it's cliche, it has worked countless times in the past. Video games usually have boss fights because they are the the true climax of the game, the "boss" is the symbol of everything you have fought for and sacrificed to get to and a good boss fight is epitome of gaming. The game just wouldn't be the same without it, having hordes come at you in the final fight like ME3 is just....underwhelming.

A boss fight doesn't have to be the traditional big monster fight but it's very difficult to do. MGS4 did a wonderful job of having a great final boss fight without a massive monster/mech at the end. Something similar could have been done with the Illusive Man without him having to transform.

Instead of trying to make the boss itself unique, if you want to be original then make the fight itself unique. Do something fun/challenging that no one else has done in a final fight; hordes of enemies coming at you is not fun at all.

Having a conversation with something (whatever the hell the Catalyst was) and then jumping into a beam automatically is no fun either.  The TIM conversation was engaging.  I understood that one and I understood that  a boss fight didn't belong there but I did want a Harbinger fight.

[chemiclord]

I think what we're seeing here isn't so much a dismissal of "video game" requirements as much as it was a poor choice of words.

It's no secret that game developers are trying to bend the rules of what makes a video game. They're testing different methods of game flow, and one of those ways you're seeing more is the lack of "boss fights."

They really are a fairly silly thing, when you think of it in terms of storytelling. In stories, the climax isn't always a huge fight with a big bad. The problem is that when it comes to a visual medium, a philosophical or logical battle seems... lackluster.

That said, endlessly committing to a trope leads to stagnancy, and a stagnant medium isn't particularly engaging. Much like any other element, a game doesn't particularly NEED a "boss fight", provided the alternative provided is done well.

[sr2josh]

Rotacioskapa wrote...

 
fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/365/e/d/mass_effect___ending_option_4_by_the_joeblack-d5pufyw.jpg

This is a boss fight that I would gladly pay a lot of money for in a new DLC.

[Bill Casey]

I liked the boss fight against Vega at the beginning of the game...

Which was essentially a series of paragon and renegade interrupts that effected how thoroughly you beat his ass...
It was both interactive and cinematic...


Kai Leng encounters might have benefitted from a similar game mechanic...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 06 janvier 2013 - 05:20 .

[Fur28]

Bill Casey wrote...

I liked the boss fight against Vega at the beginning of the game...

Which was essentially a series of paragon and renegade interrupts that effected how thoroughly you beat his ass...
It was both interactive and cinematic...


Kai Leng encounters might have benefitted from that game mechanic...

Conversation with Sovereign while with Shoot him(Renegade) and dodge his lasers(Paragon) in the Normady?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

These were engaging:





This was not:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6kZuSHpWwo

This was a hell of a ride:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQwpvlzUiGY

[Bill Casey]

Fur28 wrote...

Conversation with Sovereign while with Shoot him(Renegade) and dodge his lasers(Paragon) in the Normady?

I was thinking more Shepard encounters Kai Leng on Cronos Station, minions separate your squad from you, and interactive action ensues. Interrupts, choices, varying degrees of success and possibility of failure if you make too many missteps, etc...

Sovereign doesn't need that mechanic, because you can shoot him a **** ton of times and logically he shouldn't be dead...

What you would want in a more traditional boss fight would be something in between this, like a big alien that can take lots and lots of bullets, but can still go down after being shot enough...

The point is to make the encounter appropriate for what you are fighting...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 06 janvier 2013 - 05:48 .

[Bill Casey]

I would also argue that the only issue with Mass Effect 2's final boss was that it looked like a giant terminator for no logical reason...

Which was an absurd design that reeked of trying to be cool for the sake of being cool, at the expense of being weird and out of place. Which made it hard to take seriously. Which is at the heart of the "video gamey" argument...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 06 janvier 2013 - 06:12 .

[Tootles FTW]

I don't disagree with the sentiment, really, as I think some shooter-type games suffer from including a dumb boss fight (example: Bioshock) when perhaps another tactic to end the game would have been better suited for the tone/mood.

Though to be in the video game industry and declare that anything is "too video gamey" is rather dismissive & condescending. There have been plenty of video games with fantastic boss battles (and FYI, ME2's Reaper-baby ain't one of them, sorry).

[Ryoten]

liggy002 wrote...

Mark Alarton wrote...

''Bad Move Bioware'' got closed? :/

Yep, and contrary to what Ninja Stan has stated, it was discussing the game.  I'll have to respectfully disagree on that one.  I only pointed out the foolishness of thinking boss battles are too video gamey.  To me, that is one of the most fun elements of a video game.  If Bioware intends to remove that from their future DLC and games, then their games really are not for me.

Ninja Stan closes threads where Bio Drones do not take defense of the company. 

Take for example "Has Mass Effect 3 Destroyed Your "Trust" in Bioware?
"  This thread got out of hand with txgoldrush spitting the press release statements over and over again like a mindless drone.  And it took 24 pages before he had to shut it down.  What did "Bad move Bioware" get 2 or 3 pages?


I would like to know what Ninja Stans Definition of "story or campaign related" is.  But i believe i know the answer to that.  All i have to say about it is, He's splitting the hair mighty thin. 

[Hey]

I'm not a huge fan of a by the numbers approach, to anything really... If it fits it fits but don't just throw some dog **** in there to call it a boss fight. Talking to you ME 2 and countless others