512 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Someone With Mass wrote...

The rest of the mission was just: Shoot your way through buildings ---> Reach a very obnoxious AA-cannon and kill it with Cains conveniently scattered around for just such an occasion ---> Shoot your way through more buildings ---> Reach a missile truck thing with a Reaper conveniently in front of it ---> Defend it until it's done preparing ---> Shove a couple of missiles down the Reaper's throat ---> You "win".

The Suicide Mission in ME2 felt much more rewarding. Mostly because there was a sense of a victory Shepard him/herself achieved at the end, but still.

You could put the Suicide Mission into the same ---> format all the same, though. It's not a difference in format (with an arbitrary format), but simply personal satisfaction.

[Mr.House]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Fun fact: Reapers don't have shields up when they are on the surface of a planet.

Incorrect. Their shields are weakened, but still present. We also see in the opening tutorial that the shields are still considerable.

Hmm read the codex, yup you're right. Shields are extreamly weak. Still does not change the fact they could have done a massive fight with Harbinger instead of that stupid zerg rush against a Reaper who can shoot his main guns faster then you can turn your head.

Modifié par Mr.House, 02 janvier 2013 - 09:12 .

[Someone With Mass]

Mr.House wrote...

Fun fact: Reapers don't have shields up when they are on the surface of a planet. Harbinger was at the beam by himself. Why no massive fight against him that was long, had many phases and went from on foot parts to vehicle parts? Wasted potential. TIM fight was stupid, but making a fight against Harbinger would not have been hard if done well, while also fitting the story and would have made the character have a true role in the game.

Not true. They need to lower the strength of their shields to use that power for their mass effect generators to land on a planet, at which point, they are vulnerable. After that, I see no reason why they can't or shouldn't have their shields up at maximum.

[Mr.House]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Mr.House wrote...
Um...the good byes are the only good thing about Earth.... 

Indeed, and even that felt a little lacking in my opinion.

The rest of the mission was just: Shoot your way through buildings ---> Reach a very obnoxious AA-cannon and kill it with Cains conveniently scattered around for just such an occasion ---> Shoot your way through more buildings ---> Reach a missile truck thing with a Reaper conveniently in front of it ---> Defend it until it's done preparing ---> Shove a couple of missiles down the Reaper's throat ---> You "win".

The Suicide Mission in ME2 felt much more rewarding. Mostly because there was a sense of a victory Shepard him/herself achieved at the end, but still.

You know my feeling on the suicide mission Mass so I won't repeat myself I still found Illos and On far more rewarding and much more fun then the Suicide Mission and lackluster Earth.

Modifié par Mr.House, 02 janvier 2013 - 09:06 .

[Someone With Mass]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
You could put the Suicide Mission into the same ---> format all the same, though. It's not a difference in format (with an arbitrary format), but simply personal satisfaction.

That's because that's what this mission felt to me. There was nothing special about it to put it in a more detailed and personal format.

[Mr.House]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
You could put the Suicide Mission into the same ---> format all the same, though. It's not a difference in format (with an arbitrary format), but simply personal satisfaction.

That's because that's what this mission felt to me. There was nothing special about it to put it in a more detailed and personal format.

Even if I did a format for SM this is what I have
choose tech expert and squad lead>kill Collectors and hit buttons to help tech expert>Save your crew and either send them with a squadmate or let them die>pick biotic bubble user and other squad leader>kill more collectors>pick your two squadies and kill Collectors on platforms>fight derpy Human-Reaper>fin

Nowhere compariable to Earth which is just as Mass said.

Modifié par Mr.House, 02 janvier 2013 - 09:10 .

[squee365]

J. Reezy wrote...

Did this quote really need ANOTHER thread?

Not really, but it is amusing how many people defend it. Its a really silly quote that should've never been said. 

[squee365]

vivaladricas wrote...

So why have Kai Leng? I mean you have 2 with that bullet sponge. So much fun, shoot, he regenerates, rinse and repeat a few times blah blah blah been nice if they stuck with this quote for the entire game then.

ME3 does have a super easy mode you know. 

[Rosstoration]

I haven't read the full thread, but I'm holding up Metal Gear Solid 4's "boss fight" as an example of how a final showdown can feel completely fluid and not at all contrived (I hate the term "boss fight", I prefer something more like "final confrontation").
(Spoilers for MGS4)
That final showdown with Liquid, that was basically a nostalgia trip through a over a decade of the series... It was perfect. The way the music changed at the start of the fight from Metal Gear Solid, through to Metal Gear Solid 2, through to Metal Gear Solid 3; the health-bars and art direction changing; the "arena" gradually becoming more and more confined. It was just absolutely spine-tingling, especially if you grew up with the series and loved the experience as much as I knew I did.Even just watching it out of context, it is still a thousand times greater than anything BioWare or any other game company could have pulled off: 

Final confrontations work in every medium; movies, books, so what is Hudson trying to get by saying that they are too "video gamey", as if he is on some higher plain of thinking to every other video game developer. He needs to seriously remove his head from his rectum. 

Modifié par Rosstoration, 02 janvier 2013 - 09:23 .

[Omega Torsk]

That quote haunts me more than any other.

It made me realize that Hudson had successfully gone FUBAR with this game. He wanted to try something new. It's unfortunate that he had to do it with an already-established trilogy instead of gambling with a new IP.

Look at the fire all around you, Hudson and Walters. Look at the destruction and disarray. Was it worth it?

[Dean_the_Young]

Mr.House wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Fun fact: Reapers don't have shields up when they are on the surface of a planet.

Incorrect. Their shields are weakened, but still present. We also see in the opening tutorial that the shields are still considerable.

Hmm read the codex, yup you're right. Shields are extreamly weak. Still does not change the fact they could have odne a massive fight with Harbinger instead of that stupid zerg rush against a Reapoer who can shoot his main guns faster then you can turn your head.

This is purely personal opinion, but-

I'm rather glad that they didn't try to make an awesome fight out of Harbinger for three reasons: I don't feel Harbinger was ever some sort of Shepard nemesis to justify the fan-lust people seem to have for him now, I don't think a boss battle would have been epic enough without being severely out of place for the setting and Shepard, and honestly I don't think it would have been particularly awesome in execution anyway.

For the first, Harbinger was never a particularly personal antagonist to justify some end-game culminating grudge match. This would have been true even just off of ME3, but even factoring in ME2 Harbinger was never present or involved enough to make me care. The Collectors were little more than a framing device for ME2, only seen a half dozen times in the first place, and Harbinger was even less: we didn't even know it was a Reaper until the end, and his involvement amounted to taunts and empty boasts. I more than a little agreed with the many underwhelmed fans who thought Harbinger was a weak antagonist in ME2, and absence in ME3 didn't make my heart grow fonder. As far as I was concerned, Harbinger's unique significance ended with the Collectors, and everything afterwards involving it was more or less shoehorned in.

For the second and third, which tie together, the idea of a Reaper boss fight strikes me as almost precisely the sort of fixed-piece, Call of Duty style, too-cinematic-for-the-fans kind of content that so many people have accused ME3 of already having too much of. In order to incorporate the sheer scale and visual impact, such a fight would have either have had to involve a good deal of cutscenes, or worse: quick-time events. That might work for God of War, but Mass Effect? Can you imagine the people who, burned by the star child and ending choices, would boomerang on such an atypical attempt.

The alternative to cinematics that show and play up the drama and scale of such a fight is, well... not playing up the drama and scale of a fight. Which would pretty much undermine the idea of an epic boss fight if it was just 'shoot the target in the room', which would lead to its own complaints.


Between such a thing not exactly being an established Bioware practice, let along strength, I doubt such an epic fight could have been pulled off well within the ME series... and I doubt people soured by the endings would have had their views changed by it either. It probably would have become seen as part of the problem, rather than a mitigating virtue.

[Someone With Mass]

Rosstoration wrote...

I haven't read the full thread, but I'm holding up Metal Gear Solid 4's "boss fight" as an example of how a final showdown can feel completely fluid and not at all contrived (I hate the term "boss fight", I prefer something more like "final confrontation").
(Spoilers for MGS4)
That final showdown with Liquid, that was basically a nostalgia trip through a over a decade of the series... It was perfect. The way the music changed at the start of the fight from Metal Gear Solid, through to Metal Gear Solid 2, through to Metal Gear Solid 3; the health-bars and art direction changing; the "arena" gradually becoming more and more confined. It was just absolutely spine-tingling, especially if you grew up with the series and loved the experience as much as I knew I did.Even just watching it out of context, it is still a thousand times greater than anything BioWare or any other game company could have pulled off: 

Final confrontations work in every medium; movies, books, so what is Hudson trying to get by saying that they are too "video gamey", as if he is on some higher plain of thinking to every other video game developer. He needs to seriously remove his head from his rectum. 

This.

Only their imagination is their limitation. Which is apparently lacking in some areas.

[squee365]

Rosstoration wrote...

I haven't read the full thread, but I'm holding up Metal Gear Solid 4's "boss fight" as an example of how a final showdown can feel completely fluid and not at all contrived (I hate the term "boss fight", I prefer something more like "final confrontation").
(Spoilers for MGS4)
That final showdown with Liquid, that was basically a nostalgia trip through a over a decade of the series... It was perfect. The way the music changed at the start of the fight from Metal Gear Solid, through to Metal Gear Solid 2, through to Metal Gear Solid 3; the health-bars and art direction changing; the "arena" gradually becoming more and more confined. It was just absolutely spine-tingling, especially if you grew up with the series and loved the experience as much as I knew I did.Even just watching it out of context, it is still a thousand times greater than anything BioWare or any other game company could have pulled off: 

Final confrontations work in every medium; movies, books, so what is Hudson trying to get by saying that they are too "video gamey", as if he is on some higher plain of thinking to every other video game developer. He needs to seriously remove his head from his rectum. 

Thank you, my thoughts exactly. 

[clarkusdarkus]

@rosstoration .. I stated earlier in the thread about MGS getting it right, it's about a long battle coming to fruition, you can have both story and " boss " battles in a videogame.... As when your giving kai leng screen time and plot armor then they did include a "boss" ... Just if u didnt read the comics you wouldnt have a clue who he is, yet liquid is as important as snake in MGS.. Kojima>>> Hudson

Modifié par clarkusdarkus, 02 janvier 2013 - 09:32 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Mr.House wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
You could put the Suicide Mission into the same ---> format all the same, though. It's not a difference in format (with an arbitrary format), but simply personal satisfaction.

That's because that's what this mission felt to me. There was nothing special about it to put it in a more detailed and personal format.

Even if I did a format for SM this is what I have
choose tech expert and squad lead>kill Collectors and hit buttons to help tech expert>Save your crew and either send them with a squadmate or let them die>pick biotic bubble user and other squad leader>kill more collectors>pick your two squadies and kill Collectors on platforms>fight derpy Human-Reaper>fin

Nowhere compariable to Earth which is just as Mass said.

I think you missed the point that the ---> format is arbitrary simplicification. All it does is reflect your pre-existing bias: you could shorten and describe the Collector Base in dismissive terms and wit words, just as you could expand and cast Priority: Earth in more sympathetic terms.

It's flawed framing device because it doesn't really demonstrate anything unique about the levels in question other than how the presenter feels about them, because it's already selective generalization. It doesn't actually reflect contrasts, similarities, strengths, or weaknesses of the respective missions.

[legion999]

Then what the hell was the Rannoch Reaper?

[clarkusdarkus]

vivaladricas wrote...

clarkusdarkus wrote...

@rosstoration .. I stated earlier in the thread about MGS getting it right, it's about a long battle coming to fruition, you can have both story and " boss " battles in a videogame.... As when your giving kai leng screen time and plot armor then they did include a "boss" ... Just if u didnt read the comics you wouldnt have a clue who he is, yet liquid is as important as snake in MGS.. Kojima>>> Hudson

You can add quite a few more >>>>>  for Kojima there.  Guy is damn good at his craft.  

Yeah i did understate the >>> as considering kojima didnt even want to make MGS4 it's testament to him and the team with the masterpiece they created..... With so called boss's aswell.... Here's another... Psycho mantis >>> kai leng:D

[Omega Torsk]

legion999 wrote...

Then what the hell was the Rannoch Reaper?

He just wanted you to know that Harbinger still cares for you.

[legion999]

Omega Torsk wrote...

legion999 wrote...

Then what the hell was the Rannoch Reaper?

He just wanted you to know that Harbinger still cares for you.

...Yet he ignores me when I'm right there?

[Grubas]

Dean_the_Young
In this case, yes. Unlike in many cases when they don't give reasons at all, but from which context must be inferred or speculated, they give us a pretty direct reason... and it's not one which more time would have 'fixed'. It's also a position which is reflected in a different piece of official material (the art book), in which the TIM-Boss design is commented on and dismissed because it was deemed too uncharacteristic for TIM as an antagonist.

im sorry i must concur. Kai Leng boss fight was out of place as i have killed better characters in ME1 and2, with decisevly less effort. Kai Leng is just annoying.. As for the reason given ... if you take bw by its word, theshould add something else at least that makes as much effort as a boss fight. They didnt. You can really say they went the convienient way. ME1 ending, with less effort put into it.

Modifié par Grubas, 02 janvier 2013 - 10:13 .