512 réponses à ce sujet

[liggy002]

Lazengan wrote...

Well Bioware perhaps you should make movies instead of video games, which you clearly hate

Scrap DA3

make it a movie

Agreed, it's utter nonsense.  I hope the next DLC has a Harbinger boss battle.  One can only hope. 

[liggy002]

Bill Casey wrote...

Belisarius25 wrote...

Yeah, I thought that line was specifically referring to a "Reaper-TIM" fight, which would have been a recipe for something stupid.

If stupid was a recipe, it would look something like that...
Scrapping the Illusive Boss was a good call...

I agree that a TIM boss fight would have been dumb.  Just as stupid as the Kai Leng fights.  That said, they should not have scrapped the Harbinger confrontation.

[David7204]

I would take the suggestions for a 'Harbinger boss battle' a lot more seriously if I saw a decent and thorough layout of how it could actually be done.

For the record, I didn't like the Reaper IFF mission much in ME 2. In fact, I would probably scrap if it I had the chance to redo things.

[liggy002]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

All I hear is "waaah waaah waaah".

You clearly just want video games to be trapped in some kind of time capsule where nothing ever evolves, but please don't try and tell Bioware what they should and shouldn't do. Cry less and deal with it.

If video games are going to evolve into turds, then I'll stay far away.  A game without boss battles is retarded.  They are very fun and very rewarding.

[David7204]

That is crap. Plenty of decent games don't have boss battles.

[liggy002]

David7204 wrote...

I would take the suggestions for a 'Harbinger boss battle' a lot more seriously if I saw a decent and thorough layout of how it could actually be done.

For the record, I didn't like the Reaper IFF mission much in ME 2. In fact, I would probably scrap if it I had the chance to redo things.

Easy, just have Harbinger posess some super collector that resembles Harbinger even more than the other collectors.  It could be a multi stage fight.  Then, when we take off in our star ship, he'll try and blast us and we basically have to survive him by slowing him down to escape.  I've thought it over and I think that Harbinger is probably too bad ass to be taken down by ordinary means.  He deserved better than a Crucible death though I think.

[David7204]

So why is there only one of these 'super-collectors'? Why wouldn't the Reapers create them en masse if they're so powerful? Is this escape sequence just a cutscene? Shepard is not the pilot.

[liggy002]

David7204 wrote...

That is crap. Plenty of decent games don't have boss battles.

OK, to be fair, there are some games without boss battles that are fun such as Uncharted.  However, I would like to point out that ME1 and ME2 never shyed away from boss battles.  Both had end boss battles that were still fun even if they were cheesy.  That said, I feel that Priority Earth should have been ramped up with a final boss battle.  It would provided more of a climax and I do  think that boss battles fit in Mass Effect.

[someguy1231]

David7204 wrote...

I would take the suggestions for a 'Harbinger boss battle' a lot more seriously if I saw a decent and thorough layout of how it could actually be done.

Well, since you asked so nicely, I explained in detail how a Harbinger boss battle could work in this thread of mine a few months ago:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/14763746
(warning: very long)

Looking back on it, I'd probably make a few changes now (you can now save some of your squadmates but not all of them), but otherwise I think it'd be an excellent final boss battle from both a story and gameplay perspective.

[David7204]

I think the boss battle with Saren was horrible, definitely the worst part of the end sequence. He's just a sponge that you hit with biotics and shoot ten billion shots at until he dies. I don't really like him having the Reaper implants. I certainly don't like his death frying Sovereign's shields - I would avoid that unless I couldn't think of anything else.

The Human Reaper wasn't much better.

[liggy002]

David7204 wrote...

So why is there only one of these 'super-collectors'? Why wouldn't the Reapers create them en masse if they're so powerful? Is this escape sequence just a cutscene? Shepard is not the pilot.

   It could have been the "prime" collector aka progenitor or the first one created but it's creation proved inefficient to mass produce.  It consumed too many resources because it was that powerful.  Perhaps the same could be said of Harbinger since he is sort of a super Reaper himself.  One could also think that Harbinger is arrogant and so deems to have his own personal collector that stands out from the rest.  Think of the White Warg in the Hobbit.

  As for the flight scene, it is player controlled mixed with cinematics and possible quick time events.  Joker would be piloting and we had taken control of Joker in ME2 if you remember.  It's nothing all that new.

[RiptideX1090]

If you want to know how a Harbinger Boss battle would work, all you have to do is look at the Scarecrow boss battles from Arkham Asylum. Dodging Harbinger long enough for those reinforcements Hackett mentions but never show up to swoop in and start hammering Harbinger would have been enough.

[David7204]

liggy002 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

So why
is there only one of these 'super-collectors'? Why wouldn't the Reapers
create them en masse if they're so powerful? Is this escape sequence
just a cutscene? Shepard is not the pilot.

It could have been the "prime" collector aka progenitor or the first one created but it's creation proved inefficient to mass produce.  It consumed too many resources because it was that powerful.  Perhaps the same could be said of Harbinger since he is sort of a super Reaper himself.  One could also think that Harbinger is arrogant and so deems to have his own personal collector that stands out from the rest.  Think of the White Warg in the Hobbit.

As for the flight scene, it is player controlled mixed with cinematics and possible quick time events.  Joker would be piloting and we had taken control of Joker in ME2 if you remember.  It's nothing all that new.

That might work. But of course, it would require the collectors to be much more heavily integrated into ME 3's plot. So that would require going back basically to the beginning and doing a lot of things over and thinking a lot of new things up.

But I can't have the final battle or confrontation be a flight scene, even if the player has partial or full control. This series has been on foot since the beginning. It needs to end on foot.

Modifié par David7204, 03 janvier 2013 - 04:13 .

[RiptideX1090]

As far as the Super Collector boss battle for ME2, might I just suggest that the final battle in that game would have been best if it was just the Collector General?

Seriously. I imagine it fighting like a suped up Praetorian, but also throwing waves and waves of collectors after you.

[David7204]

But of course, Harbinger the actual Reaper still needs to be killed somehow. And like I said, I really didn't care for Saren's death taking out Sovereign's shields.

[RiptideX1090]

David7204 wrote...

But of course, Harbinger the actual Reaper still needs to be killed somehow. And like I said, I really didn't care for Saren's death taking out Sovereign's shields.

Shepard doesn't need to kill Harbinger. I think the best way to do it would have been a Scarcrow style fight, where you're hiding form Harbinger, but you're drawing his fire. It could have been as simple as making the run to the conduit have a lot more debris in the way, and you're actually avoiding the beams more like the fight on Rannoch. The idea is to draw Harbinger's attention until the cavalry arrives. Hackett showing up and engaging Harbinger with a bunch of ships would have been awesome. Shepard would use this chance to limp to the conduit. Later, when the Crucible fires, we cut back to Harbinger and Hackett still going at it, probably with Hackett about to be iced, and the Crucible manages to blast Harbinger at just the right moment.

This gives Harbinger more time to talk and taunt Shepard, it adds more strategy to the fight as you're dodging attacks instead of it all being scripted, it adds tension because Harbinger isn't just leaving, he's still slaughtering people even after you depart, adding a further sense of urgency, and Hackett gets to be a badass, and most importantly, it adds resolution to Harbinger's character, letting Shepard get a visible comeuppance when he is blown up/controlled.

That's how I would have done it, anyway.

[Grubas]

David7204 wrote...

But of course, Harbinger the actual Reaper still needs to be killed somehow. And like I said, I really didn't care for Saren's death taking out Sovereign's shields.

Dont you judge a theoretical game content to fast? How do you know you wouldnt enjoy it? If done right even the talk with TIM and his Jedi-Powers would feel like a bossfight.

Another thing is to make an opinion about alternative endings, as anyone can make up a story. But game content needs to be played to judge whether its been done right or cheapass. 

[David7204]

someguy1231 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I would take the suggestions for a 'Harbinger boss battle' a lot more seriously if I saw a decent and thorough layout of how it could actually be done.

Well, since you asked so nicely, I explained in detail how a Harbinger boss battle could work in this thread of mine a few months ago:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/14763746
(warning: very long)

Looking back on it, I'd probably make a few changes now (you can now save some of your squadmates but not all of them), but otherwise I think it'd be an excellent final boss battle from both a story and gameplay perspective.

This has some ideas that might be workable, but overall, there's more minuses than pluses.

First of all, and most glaringly, it has the mandatory deaths of every single squadmate aside from James, Javik, and EDI. (Including every ME 2 squadmate.)

There is absolutely no way in the nine circles of hell I would ever, EVER do that as a mandatory part of the story. Absolutely no way. That would be utterly abhorrent to me.

Modifié par David7204, 03 janvier 2013 - 04:49 .

[Lazengan]

this has nothing to do with boss fights

his statement shed light how Bioware views this industry. A video game to them is simply a medium in which to tell stories

if all you want to do is tell stories, why not focus all your efforts into making movies? Why kill yourself over a medium that you clearly hate

[David7204]

Because that's a stupid conclusion. They do not 'clearly hate' video games.

[Lazengan]

David7204 wrote...

Because that's a stupid conclusion. They do not 'clearly hate' video games.

they disrespect them. 

For them its just another way of telling stories. Stories have always been the focus point

WHY NOT JUST MAKE A MOVIE? Movies are the perfect medium to tell stories. What exactly is stopping them?

Modifié par Lazengan, 03 janvier 2013 - 05:30 .

[garrusfan1]

xAmilli0n wrote...

ME3 didn't need a boss fight, but the fact that they used "it's too videogamey" as an excuse is ridiculous. Just look at the Rannoch reaper battle. Pretty much exact what they said they wanted to avoid.

That was way more video gamey then the human reaper thing at the collector base. The rannoch reaper was beyond annoying and is the only reason I can't get an insanity achievement since I turn it to narrative during the reaper battle cause I always die. D*** I hate that part

[David7204]

No. They aren't. Moves have some advantages to telling stories and some drawbacks. Books have some advantages to telling stories and some drawbacks. Video games have some advantages to telling stories and some drawbacks. That's true for every medium, and certain types of stories fit better with some mediums than others.

A good storyteller needs to recognize those advantages and disadvantages with their chosen medium. Recognizing those disadvantages is not disrespect.

Modifié par David7204, 03 janvier 2013 - 05:35 .