123 réponses à ce sujet

[Fisto The Sexbot]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

I personally do not think the lack of s/s romances would deter gay people from actually playing the game.

You would be wrong.

How could you know that (in a general sense)?

[Orian Tabris]

If you say so, Reezy.

I always knew Cloud was overcompensating. Why else would he be so popular? Many people say they don't like the kind of characters their supposed to like a la Hollywood, but that's exactly what Cloud is (except it's not Hollywood, it's more like Squollywood).

Wait a minute... DA II = revamped franchise --> Cloud = stereotypical popular person (i.e. showbiz types care about how they are perceived by others) --> brackets = penis innuendo --> compensation.

You're right J. Reezy, EntropicAngel is right (and has thus, laid bare, the truth about human progression).

Colour me frazzled!

[spirosz]

We need to go deeper

[Emzamination]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Mmm, no.

If there's a well-written character arc that happens to contain incest, BDSM, or something considered socially deviant, then fine.

Oh hai... Sable is that you?? Oh my... o.o *leaves thread*

[Orian Tabris]

EntropicAngel wrote...

But I still love him, as well as his spiritual daughter:

<-----

*inhales* *exhales* No... no I don't think so. Does Serah look like that campy overcompensator?

[Plaintiff]

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

I personally do not think the lack of s/s romances would deter gay people from actually playing the game.

You would be wrong.

How could you know that (in a general sense)?

And we're not questioning Robhuzz's sweeping assertion because...?

I can say with absolute certainty that at least one gay person would be deterred from playing the game if same-sex relationships were removed, and that's enough to prove the initial claim categorically wrong.

[Fisto The Sexbot]

Plaintiff wrote...

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

I personally do not think the lack of s/s romances would deter gay people from actually playing the game.

You would be wrong.

How could you know that (in a general sense)?

And we're not questioning Robhuzz's sweeping assertion because...?

I can say with absolute certainty that at least one gay person would be deterred from playing the game if same-sex relationships were removed, and that's enough to prove the initial claim categorically wrong.

Because it was presented as a personal impression, and the reply felt like a definite answer?

[Maria Caliban]

Mistress9Nine wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

I personally do not think the lack of s/s romances would deter gay people from actually playing the game.

You would be wrong.

Is this one of your "I am the voice of LGBT" moments, cause in that case I'll just keep quiet so as to not undermine your authority. 

RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!

[Maria Caliban]

Celene II wrote...

I was not talking about twilight That book is so 5 years ago. I was talking about the new book people like to mock. 50 shades of grey and no im not talking about crazy implausible too smutty for words relationships in a bioware game who seem to be a bit prudish. I was just talking about a little difference in romance.

Not every romance can be or should be the loving tender hallmark channel stereotypical romance.

My power hungry blood mage is not going to act like a character from the Notebook
My slightly off rogue is not going to treat or want to be treated like characters from Love Actually.

If they can include Brokeback Mountain in Dragon Age origins, why cant they include 9 1/2 weeks in DA:I?

I haven't read or watched a single book or movie in your post.

Why not say "I would like to see a D/s relationship in the next game?" It's really not that hard and would prevent, for example, several pages of people talking about necrophilia, bestiality, and incest.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 05 janvier 2013 - 02:22 .

[Homebound]

I dont see how Bioware has ever exploited same-sex relationships in their games for publicity. They've ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS done same-sex relationships tastefully in their various games.

[legbamel]

Fraq Hound wrote...
We went through this in DA2 with Bethany. Bioware has no interest in putting incest into their games and I can't say I blame them as it's socially unacceptable and would only serve to push away a portion of their target audience.

Personally, incest bothers me about as little as homosexuality does. I wouldn't mind seeing it in a Dragon Age game, especially since it would fit right in with the time period and tone of the universe.

Not terribly bothered either way.

I'd put up a little fight for it where DA2 is concerned as I wasn't overly fond of Isabella or Merrill and Bethany was awesome.

No reason to bring it up for DA:I though.

Surprised this thread made it this long without a lock.

I tend to think that the obsession with romancing Bethany shows that she didn't work as a sibling in the story.  Despite the fact that her whiny ass called me "Sister" every time she fawned over me, she was more like that overly-affectionate friend who tells you how awesome you are and how much she wishes she could be like you.  Sure, it's good for the ego every once in a while but it quickly goes from sincere to manipulative or pathetic.

Carver came across far more brotherly, to me, and you don't see nearly as much, "Let me romance Carver!"  QED. 

[Quirkylilela]

That's because carver was a complete tool to basically everyone. Me and my sister fight alot but we usually get along pretty well between the fights but carver just wouldn't shutup half the time I didn't go Mage even though it's my preferred class just so I wouldn't have to put up with him. As for bethany I never really felt like hawke was my character he/she had their own personality and life so if others felt the same way then it's understandable they'd feel she'd be a good LI she just didn't feel like your sister. She would have been better off as just another refugee that would have also given me a LI besides Isabella I actually liked.

[Fredward]

My soul died. Just a leetle beet.

[d4eaming]

Plaintiff wrote...

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

I personally do not think the lack of s/s romances would deter gay people from actually playing the game.

You would be wrong.

How could you know that (in a general sense)?

And we're not questioning Robhuzz's sweeping assertion because...?

I can say with absolute certainty that at least one gay person would be deterred from playing the game if same-sex relationships were removed, and that's enough to prove the initial claim categorically wrong.

All hail the quote pyramid.

Also, QFT. Mass Effect put me off when I learned the samesex romances had been removed (computer mods can reinstate them somewhat, but they aren't finished). I eventually decided to try it after playing DAO because of the otherwise good reviews, but I was forced to wait until ME3 to have my samesex romance that my canon Shepard wanted with Kaidan, which means I miss out on a massive amount of character building and exploration with that LI. Which totally, categorically, sucks. The conversation my Shepard got with Kaidan at that point was adorable, Kaidan is such a doofus, but that does not make up for taking it away for two full games.

[Ponendus]

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

I personally do not think the lack of s/s romances would deter gay people from actually playing the game.

You would be wrong.

How could you know that (in a general sense)?

There are quite a number of people that stopped playing SWTOR solely for this reason. It was promised but never delivered I believe.

[Ponendus]

Question to OP: Is the book series you are referring to A Song of Ice and Fire?

I assume you are referring to incest etc. I have always wondered why people seem to be so keen to see these 'shocking' topics played out in video games? If the story calls for it, sure, if not, then no thank you that would just be a superficial grab for publicity. I would hope that BioWare is better than that.

[d4eaming]

Ponendus wrote...

Question to OP: Is the book series you are referring to A Song of Ice and Fire?

I assume you are referring to incest etc. I have always wondered why people seem to be so keen to see these 'shocking' topics played out in video games? If the story calls for it, sure, if not, then no thank you that would just be a superficial grab for publicity. I would hope that BioWare is better than that.

I could see the potential for a familial romance, but it would have to be done extremely carefully, and as openminded and sensitive as BW has been lately regarding samesex romance, I do not know if I'd actually trust them to deliver it in a tasteful manner (outside of royalty incest which was very widespread in history, to preserve land/kingdoms/wealth/etc) for a player character. There is too much room to screw it up.

My own openmindedness of the situation is personal- my step-father is also my cousin, through marriage. His father married my mother's sister, and then he and my mother married. It isn't a blood relationship, but due to family ties by marriage, he's my mother's nephew, technically. To some, the fact it isn't blood relation makes no difference to the fact he is her nephew. To some, that is still morally repugnant (though in our case, it isn't relevant to anyone outside our family, so none of them know, and his father and my aunt have been divorced for ten years or more at this point). At the time, however, he was legally her nephew.

I've also had character of mine "explore" this kind of relationship- some in healthy ways, some decidedly not.

It would be very difficult for BW to properly catch the nuances of this, I think, without alienating a portion of the playerbase, because it is still very taboo. GLBT are making headway in equal rights, but we have a long way to go until we're on the same footing as the hetero portion of society. Incest, even when it's not blood bonds, is a lot farther off and may never gain wide acceptance. Any instances I have heard of had been about one part of the couple going to prison, and in one case, legally mandated sterilisation.

Someone brought up first-cousin marriages. In many places, it's still illegal even though they are genetically far enough apart that chances of recessive conditions arising are low. It is repeated dilution of the gene pool that leads to major problems, a one-off here and there is not going to significantly hurt any children they have.

However, the vast majority of society still disaproves of it, and still holds it in contempt.

Personally, I don't care. Barring unequal power, coersion, etc, I just don't care enough what people do, and if that is who they are happy with, go for it. I have no moral qualms about the vast majority of things general society dislikes and says is wrong (in fact, I claim no moral stance whatsoever- what I believe in is based around ethics, not morality that is tied to religious doctrine). I see no ethical problem whatsoever. I have no moral issue with it, either, because I have no religious doctrine giving me stipulations on "proper" behaviour.

Again, though, I do not think BW can or should bring that sort of relationship into their games, partly because I am aware that most of society has a moral problem with it, and thus it would probably just lead to more problems (potential banning in some places, raising the MPAA rating, which would simply hurt sales and reduce distribution), and partly because we already know that Bioware themselves find the idea repugnant. I have no problem with BW choosing not to do something that they themselves would find uncomfortable.

[nightscrawl]

d4eaming wrote...

Personally, I don't care. Barring unequal power, coersion, etc, I just don't care enough what people do, and if that is who they are happy with, go for it. I have no moral qualms about the vast majority of things general society dislikes and says is wrong (in fact, I claim no moral stance whatsoever- what I believe in is based around ethics, not morality that is tied to religious doctrine). I see no ethical problem whatsoever. I have no moral issue with it, either, because I have no religious doctrine giving me stipulations on "proper" behaviour.

100% agree with this part.

Again, though, I do not think BW can or should bring that sort of relationship into their games, partly because I am aware that most of society has a moral problem with it, and thus it would probably just lead to more problems (potential banning in some places, raising the MPAA rating, which would simply hurt sales and reduce distribution), and partly because we already know that Bioware themselves find the idea repugnant. I have no problem with BW choosing not to do something that they themselves would find uncomfortable.

But there are segments of society that think that s/s relationships are morally wrong, just as there were those who thought interracial relationships were morally wrong, "Think of the children!" and all that... Bioware, and by association EA, has shown that they are a more progressive company and are willing to take a stand on their own moral values, despite a potential backlash. So we applaud Bioware for taking a risk for one thing, but discourage them from taking a risk with the other thing?

I'm not necessarily advocating for incestuous relationships in the games, but I think the disparity here is odd.



Going back to the main topic, the best example that Celene provided of something that would "ramp up" the relationships was the reference to 9 1/2 Weeks. Veering away from the taboo subjects, I think it would be interesting to show a destructive relationship. The closest in the DA games would be a romance with a rival Anders because of the personal path that he goes down. However, when I think of a destructive relationship -- it is difficult here to provide examples without referencing certain materials or fandoms -- I do think of what Celene referenced with 9 1/2 Weeks, or if anyone is familiar with the mangaka CLAMP, their two characters Seishirou and Subaru from Tokyo Babylon and X.

I've never seen 9 1/2 Weeks so I can only go on the wiki plot description. However, I am extremely familiar with the Seishirou/Subaru relationship and its various iterations in the fan community. This is one of those relationships where the fanfic content is actually grounded in the source material, unlike say, the bizarre slash pairings of Kirk/Spock or Harry/Draco. An extremely destructive relationship that is based on obsession, power, pain, and one side giving without receiving anything in return. It is VERY dark, and to be honest, I don't really see a place for it in a Dragon Age game.

I think the rival Anders romance is about as dark as I would like to see. Adding additional weight behind it would only pull the focus away from the main plot and onto the romance, not something Bioware is willing to do, nor should they for something that is optional content.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 05 janvier 2013 - 10:14 .

[Quirkylilela]

Those fanfics are perfectly normal! It makes complete sense that Harry got turned into a girl, fell in love with Draco then travelled through the stargate to battle voldemort after he took over the galaxy.

[Ninja Stan]

I think this topic is done now.

End of line.