209 réponses à ce sujet

[moater boat]

Seival wrote...

aM1ty wrote...

 Please keep in mind I beat ME3 for the first time ever with the Extended Cut DLC Installed.

I just basically did a suicide run over the past week playing ME1, 2 and 3 in a row. It has quickly become my favourite video game series of all time. One of the things I loved about Mass Effect was the conclusion it had. Shepard died a hero, at least from the "major decision" I picked, and had to sacrifice everything he's built and loved in order to save Humanity. Please tell me what was so horrible about that? Why was that worth changing? Is it only because I played the Extended Cut that I actually enjoyed the conclusion to the Shepard trilogy?

I need answers!

The ending is great. But "ME3-hate-club" was too overhyped on BSN by people who used to see "disney ending" in each and every story... BioWare fan-base clearly needs some refreshing. And I'm glad to see it's really happening.

Obviously you don't realize that we GOT the Disney ending. All the horror of the reapers was mostly off screen. The final villain was not dealt with the way that villains are typically dealt with in an adult story (straight up killed, usually violently) but by some sort of external event. In Mass effect we had the catalyst and his rainbow explosions, in most Disney movies the villain falls to his death or chased away by a crocodile or imprisoned in a genie lamp. The only really touching death is a parental figure (like The Lion King and Bambi), and the plucky group of friends all get to live to see another day, although there is a chance that they were changed at their most basic level with magic, just like beauty and the beast, but most importantly, when all is said and done, everyone get's past their prejudices, learns not to judge people based on differences and holds hands and sings kumbaya, just like Pocahontas, Mulan, Lady and the Tramp, etc.

I think what most people wanted was something grittier and more realistic. We wanted to have to decide whether to keep pushing towards the goal or make a detour to save Jack and her students even though it may cost us precious time. We wanted to have to leave friends we have grown to care about behind because the mission came first. We wanted to see Zaeed go out in a blaze of glory. Or see Samara immolate herself by overusing her biotics. We wanted it to feel like a knock-down drag-out fight for survival. Instead we got our Disney ending with everyone all happy in the end, and almost all the main characters surviving. Lame.

[Zardoc]

You mean aside from everything?

[stonbw1]

I frankly wanted a sacrifice ending; it seemed most fitting to me. To me, the ending really started at the farewells: that's what I wanted more than anything: a chance to say goodbye, remember old times, and then go out with a bang. Admittedly, the way my Shep went out with a bang was a bit hard to understand and indeed seemed out of place in the context of the series. But, in a weird way, that wasn't most important to me and thus, I don't think the ending was THAT bad...

[crimzontearz]

I expected OPTIONS


A sacrifice for someone like you who enjoys that and and alternative for people like me

You know...like DAO

[Han Shot First]

Slashice wrote...

The main problem with the current endings that it's almost impossible (game technically, and not to mention the novels) to create a sequel which fans want the most. The only possible way to continue and expand the universe of ME if BioWare canonize the ending but then what was the point of 3 (or with the refuse it's 4) options?

My other main concern is that when you play through ME1 and ME2 you'll get a clue that humans are important most probably because of they genetic diversity because that's unique in the whole galaxy. Probably that's why the collector's took humans and turned them into a Reaper larve. Even Harbinger himself admits it in ME2 that humans are so important because of they genetic diversity. YET there's not even a single word about it in ME3 and not to mention about the ending. We're just like the other species only difference that we have Shepard (yes we have Shepard and Shepard is not you.

I'm glad that Mass Effect 3 contained no references to humanity's supposed genetic diversity.

As a species, we are actually not very genetically diverse at all. About 70,000 years ago there was a supervolcano eruption in Indonesia that greatly altered the Earth's climate, and nearly drove humanity into extinction. This created a genetic bottleneck, and as a result we are one of the least genetically diverse species on our own planet.

If we are not even close to being the most genetically diverse species on our own world, why we would be the most genetically diverse space faring civilization in the galaxy?

The whole 'humanity is special' plot line was awful, and never should have been introduced in Mass Effect 2.

[AlanC9]

Well, maybe all technological species had similar near-extinctions in their past, because..... nah, I got nothing.

Modifié par AlanC9, 03 janvier 2013 - 06:07 .

[Applepie_Svk]

Ithurael wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Seival wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Seival wrote...

The ending is great. But "ME3-hate-club" was too overhyped on BSN by people who used to see "disney ending" in each and every story... BioWare fan-base clearly needs some refreshing. And I'm glad to see it's really happening.

I loved the Walking Dead ending, you're argument is invalid.

You are not the entire BSN. Not even a half of it

...Well, and you are lying. You have a MEHEM banner, so you basically advertize silly happy ending fan-fiction mod to ME3.

broad statement. because all stories are the same. thumbs up.

typical seival logic at work.

It isn't something you can comprehend...

Making from nonsenical apocalyptic ending (OC) something like a stupid fairy tale ending (Ec) isn´t better either...

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 03 janvier 2013 - 06:12 .

[AlanC9]

moater boat wrote...

 The final villain was not dealt with the way that villains are typically dealt with in an adult story (straight up killed, usually violently) but by some sort of external event.

Well, in adult stories the villain occasionally isn't dealt with at all, and often isn't killed, either violently or otherwise.

I think what most people wanted was something grittier and more realistic. We wanted to have to decide whether to keep pushing towards the goal or make a detour to save Jack and her students even though it may cost us precious time. We wanted to have to leave friends we have grown to care about behind because the mission came first.

After the way Bio copped out with ME2's SM this wasn't a very realistic expectation.

But I agree with the general point, except that I don't think the fanbase agrees with us. The complaints I see most often are that we don't have a big reunion scene and that people want Destroy to have even fewer negative consequences than it has now. Edit: I lump many of the "more choice" posts in there because that's often the substance of the additional choice that's requested; I've never seen anyone ask for an additional choice that isn't happier than the ones we've already got.

Modifié par AlanC9, 03 janvier 2013 - 06:20 .

[Dubozz]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Evo_9 wrote...

OP i suggest you watch this for starters. This was before EC but still relevant. Also lookup "deus ex machina" 

Link was broken (much like the endings)

Also, here's something for Post-EC.

Extended Cut analysis

This.

[Han Shot First]

AlanC9 wrote...


After the way Bio copped out with ME2's SM this wasn't a very realistic expectation.

But I agree with the general point, except that I don't think the fanbase agrees with us. The complaints I see most often are that we don't have a big reunion scene and that people want Destroy to have even fewer negative consequences than it has now.

I agree with this.

A mistake Bioware made with Mass Effect 2 was in giving the player an out during the Suicide Mission, where he or she could save every single squadmate. The best possible run through the Suicide Mission should still ended with a few casualties.

That it didn't served to create some false expectations for Mass Effect 3, with some people expecting more butterflies and rainbows.

[Machazareel]

Seival wrote...

aM1ty wrote...

 Please keep in mind I beat ME3 for the first time ever with the Extended Cut DLC Installed.

I just basically did a suicide run over the past week playing ME1, 2 and 3 in a row. It has quickly become my favourite video game series of all time. One of the things I loved about Mass Effect was the conclusion it had. Shepard died a hero, at least from the "major decision" I picked, and had to sacrifice everything he's built and loved in order to save Humanity. Please tell me what was so horrible about that? Why was that worth changing? Is it only because I played the Extended Cut that I actually enjoyed the conclusion to the Shepard trilogy?

I need answers!

The ending is great. But "ME3-hate-club" was too overhyped on BSN by people who used to see "disney ending" in each and every story... BioWare fan-base clearly needs some refreshing. And I'm glad to see it's really happening.

That statement is just as wrong now as it was back then. I don't know how many different ways it needs to be jackhammered into peoples' skulls before they realise that "disney ending" was something that was only desired by a small few of the people who despised the ending. Both sides of the debate was littered with idiots, though. I see that hasn't changed.

[Omega Torsk]

Oh, there's just so many reasons...

-The endings weren't what we were promised (some promises were made a week before release). Look up "No ABC endings," "The endings will be wildly diverse," and "The ME3 endings won't pull a LOST and leave you with more questions than answers."

-In the only ending where Shepard has a chance of living, his/her fate is ambiguous

-We didn't see our War Assets in action nor did we see their effect on the final battle, so what was the point of getting them?

-Priority: Earth is a disappointment that reeks of being rushed.

-Bioware introduces the Reaper overmind in the last 10 minutes of the game and basically gives us a crash course in its motives that still do not make much sense. And they thought that we would be okay with that.

-TIM was given a rushed and unsatisfactory conclusion. (Bioware even confessed that they were scrambling with Martin Sheen's VO work as late as November, 2011)

-Things are left hanging with our LI (granted, the EC fixed this to a certain extent)

-Everything after Harbinger hits us is an incoherent and rushed mess.

-The theme of hope is tossed out of the window (at least in the original ending)

-The Mass Relays were destroyed, which opened up a can of even MORE problems (again, in the original ending)

Basically, it was not the ending that an amazing RPG experience such as the Mass Effect trilogy deserved.

[AlanC9]

Han Shot First wrote...
A mistake Bioware made with Mass Effect 2 was in giving the player an out during the Suicide Mission, where he or she could save every single squadmate. The best possible run through the Suicide Mission should still ended with a few casualties.

I crunched some numbers on the SM once, and it looks to me like the original design intent might have been to force the Reaper IFF mission right after the Collector Ship. With Zaeed installed this gives you just enough HTL points to keep everyone alive even if you go to the Collector Base right after the crew's been abducted, as long as you've succeeded at the right LMs ( including doing Zaeed's before Horizon since there's no timer) and nothing else.

Still not perfect, but better than what we got.

[Dr_Extrem]

AlanC9 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...
A mistake Bioware made with Mass Effect 2 was in giving the player an out during the Suicide Mission, where he or she could save every single squadmate. The best possible run through the Suicide Mission should still ended with a few casualties.

I crunched some numbers on the SM once, and it looks to me like the original design intent might have been to force the Reaper IFF mission right after the Collector Ship. With Zaeed installed this gives you just enough HTL points to keep everyone alive even if you go to the Collector Base right after the crew's been abducted, as long as you've succeeded at the right LMs ( including doing Zaeed's before Horizon since there's no timer) and nothing else.

Still not perfect, but better than what we got.

so .. even in the original design, it apears, that the "perfect" sm would still have been possible. zaeed was part of the box if i remember correctly .. hard to get, yet possible.

[Fur28]

Seival wrote...

aM1ty wrote...

 Please keep in mind I beat ME3 for the first time ever with the Extended Cut DLC Installed.

I just basically did a suicide run over the past week playing ME1, 2 and 3 in a row. It has quickly become my favourite video game series of all time. One of the things I loved about Mass Effect was the conclusion it had. Shepard died a hero, at least from the "major decision" I picked, and had to sacrifice everything he's built and loved in order to save Humanity. Please tell me what was so horrible about that? Why was that worth changing? Is it only because I played the Extended Cut that I actually enjoyed the conclusion to the Shepard trilogy?

I need answers!

The ending is great. But "ME3-hate-club" was too overhyped on BSN by people who used to see "disney ending" in each and every story... BioWare fan-base clearly needs some refreshing. And I'm glad to see it's really happening.

Who said anything about a Disney ending, we want an ending that makes sense and is good. Not some last-minute-make **** trying to look artistic

[RinuCZ]

It retroactively made my Shepard a spineless douche who criticizes others for doing X, Y and Z and how she would never do X, Y or Z and in the end she does it X, Y AND Z without blinking an eye herself. There is no other choice.

And when I try to replay previous installments knowing the big finale, I see her condemning people who are just same as her. And the whole series is built in the way obviously considers her to be a heroine from the beginning to the very end *. It's like watching a propagandistic movie from Communism era where a rat is glorified. It's sickening.

* Definition: a woman of distinguished courage or ability, admired for her brave deeds and noble qualities.

Modifié par RinuCZ, 03 janvier 2013 - 07:34 .

[Bill Casey]

aM1ty wrote...

Shepard died a hero, at least from the "major decision" I picked, and had to sacrifice everything he's built and loved in order to save Humanity.

This is not one of the options...
No matter what Shepard does, he's a complete monster...

[Iakus]

Han Shot First wrote...

I agree with this.

A mistake Bioware made with Mass Effect 2 was in giving the player an out during the Suicide Mission, where he or she could save every single squadmate. The best possible run through the Suicide Mission should still ended with a few casualties.

That it didn't served to create some false expectations for Mass Effect 3, with some people expecting more butterflies and rainbows.

the expectations are only false because Bioware decided to become inconsistent with literally only minutes left on the clock.

[Iakus]

Bill Casey wrote...

aM1ty wrote...

Shepard died a hero, at least from the "major decision" I picked, and had to sacrifice everything he's built and loved in order to save Humanity.

This is not one of the options...
No matter what Shepard does, he's a complete monster...

Also, this

[Fixers0]

Bad writing.

[Kabooooom]

People who are literature inclined view the endings as shoddy writing. Because they are. I mean, that's just an objective observation - there is no denying it.

However, this fact seems to affect people differently - for people like me, it isn't particularly bothersome and I can still enjoy the series just fine. But for others: it pretty much makes the games unplayable for them.

One opinion is not "more right" than another. Everyone is relevant here. However, I think a certain degree of honesty is in order - were the endings up to the same caliber as the rest of the series? No, I don't believe they were. I find it difficult to entertain the thought that anyone in their right mind could argue to the contrary on that. But, it is what it is. Deal with it and move on, or let it continue to bother you. It seems people have been firmly divided into those two camps for some time now.

[ZenetosZ]

First I want to say that not everyone disliked the ending and those who disliked the ending did not all dislike it for the same reasons.

From what I have been able to tell there are a few reasons above others that have caused a lot of people to dislike the ending. For one people dislike the Deus Ex Machine(a previously unheard of solution to a near impossible problem) concept of the Crucible both because it was suddenly put into ME3 without any mention in the prior games(In less you include the hinting in LoTSB in ME2 when Liaria mentioned the Shadow Broker sought to survive the Reaper threat with Protheon data) and because a lot of people wanted to destroy the Reapers with the races of the Galaxy in an actual "Galaxy at War".

One other reason a great number of people disliked the ending to ME3 was that in the end all choices made to the point of the ending did not actually affect the possible endings other than the added scenes of EC and the amount of EMS we had to chose our endings. When Bioware said that ME3 would be the result of all our choices people wanted the endings themselves to be the results of our choices not that of a few fixed choices.

A further reason people disliked the ending of ME3 was the fact that Shepard himself did not fully survive the ending. He is either turned into a new Catalyst, sacrifices himself to rewrite the genetic code, or nearly is destroyed by the option that destroys all synthetics and at most people are given a cryptic image of a single intake of breathe in a pile of rubble. What a good amount of people wanted was for Shepard to survive and be given more direct mention of his survival in the epilogue. It isn't an unheard of concept since I could name half a Dozen Bioware games where the protagonist survives the ending of the game through at least one ending.

Though not exactly related the ending I know of many people who disliked the final mission since it focused mostly on the Human Alliance's fight against the Reapers on Earth and less on the sum of all your War Assets. In addition people wanted the fight to take place across Earth and not just a scramble to a beam in London.

Those are reasons I have observed to why some people disliked the ending to Mass Effect 3

[Bill Casey]

In destroy, you commit an act of genocide on your own allies the Geth.

In control, you fashion an omnipotent being in your own image out of brainwashed dead people slaves that wants to lord over the galaxy.

Synthesis is actually more monstrous than what the Reapers are doing. Say what you want about the Reapers, they never experimented on every living being at once. It's a violation of bodily sovereignty that runs deeper than even rape. On. every. living. thing.

In refuse, everyone dies.

Modifié par Bill Casey, 03 janvier 2013 - 07:56 .

[wright1978]

Omega Torsk wrote...

Oh, there's just so many reasons...

-The endings weren't what we were promised (some promises were made a week before release). Look up "No ABC endings," "The endings will be wildly diverse," and "The ME3 endings won't pull a LOST and leave you with more questions than answers."

-In the only ending where Shepard has a chance of living, his/her fate is ambiguous

-We didn't see our War Assets in action nor did we see their effect on the final battle, so what was the point of getting them?

-Priority: Earth is a disappointment that reeks of being rushed.

-Bioware introduces the Reaper overmind in the last 10 minutes of the game and basically gives us a crash course in its motives that still do not make much sense. And they thought that we would be okay with that.

-TIM was given a rushed and unsatisfactory conclusion. (Bioware even confessed that they were scrambling with Martin Sheen's VO work as late as November, 2011)

-Things are left hanging with our LI (granted, the EC fixed this to a certain extent)

-Everything after Harbinger hits us is an incoherent and rushed mess.

-The theme of hope is tossed out of the window (at least in the original ending)

-The Mass Relays were destroyed, which opened up a can of even MORE problems (again, in the original ending)

Basically, it was not the ending that an amazing RPG experience such as the Mass Effect trilogy deserved.

Well put

[AlanC9]

Dr_Extrem wrote...


so .. even in the original design, it apears, that the "perfect" sm would still have been possible. zaeed was part of the box if i remember correctly .. hard to get, yet possible.

That's my guess. It's not based on any evidence except that a dev once said the IFF should have been forced and if they did force it the numbers would be exactly right. Assuming the GameInformer (?) SM calculations are correct; I have not tested this yet myself.

Modifié par AlanC9, 03 janvier 2013 - 08:01 .