244 réponses à ce sujet

[IronWolf1987]

*Warning large wall of text read at your own peril, also this posts reeks of geekdom*

First I'd like to explain that my warden is a practical and cunning hero, and while he is kind, generous, and compassionate he will find a way to win and save his homeland, his people, and thedas.

With this in mind from my hero's point of view he has to accept Morrigan's ritual, and this is why. The archdemon has to be killed without question, but only a grey warden can do so, and thanks to Loghain's shenanigans there are only three Grey Wardens available. My hero, Alistair and Riordan, and for the archdemon to die so does one of the wardens. The first and obvious choice is Riordan, he is the oldest and will be called by the taint soon, he has seen much and it would bring him great honor to slay the archdemon, this also allows my hero and Alistair to set about the work of rebuilding ferelden, and the grey wardens. This is the best case scenario.

The second best option is for my hero to die. While he is young, powerful, and a champion of ferelden, ferelden and Thedas can go on without him. Would it be better if he were still around to protect Ferelden and Thedas from evil? You bet, but other heros can and will rise up to take his place.

The last option is for Alistair to deal the death blow to the archdemon, this can not happen. Why? Because Ferelden needs Alistair. Despite his protests my hero knows that Alistair is what Ferelden needs. Alistair is just, loyal, and simply a good person. He has what it takes to not only rebuild Ferelden, but to make it stronger then ever before and with it the Ferelden Grey Wardens. Unlike my hero, Ferelden can not go on without Alistair, as it is it's barely holding together, and while Anora may be a crafty ruler she can not be trusted. What if Anora goes batty like her dad and bans the wardens from Ferelden? What if she gets so caught up her in own plans that leaves Ferelden wide open for another darkspawn attack? What would happen to Thedas if the Darkspawn did conquer Ferelden and got a foothold on the suface? Would the rest of Thedas be able to survive? My Hero is not about to let that happen.

So with this in mind why does my hero need Morrigan's ritual? Because it offers insurance, insurance that Alistair will live to rule as king and strengthen Ferelden. We only have three Warden's, and if my hero and Riordan die in the battle, and Alistair has to make the killing blow then Alistair will still live to unite and strengthen Ferelden and lead it against any more darkspawn threat. If all three of the wardens die than all of Ferelden and Thedas is at risk as far as my hero is concerned.

Now of course there is problem of Morrigan's plan for the god-child. At first it seems like my hero is simply trading one bad scenario for another, but he is not. If all three of the wardens were to die the hero has no control over what happens to Ferelden under the rule of Anora, if things go bad and there are no wardens and the darkspawn once again find Ferelden easy prey, than that is it.

On the other hand if Morrigan's inent for the god child is evil, and she and the child do one day become a threat there is some hope. If Alistair is alive then he can rebuild the wardens and Ferelden, not only that but he will know of Morrigan and the child and can prepare for her. He'll have allies in the chantry, the circle, the elves, the dwarves, and the wardens. He'll have all the resources of a king, and if I'm alive as well I too will have access to these recourses as well as my own knowledge of Morrigan.

Morrigan may know my hero, she may think him weak for his compassion, but she wasn't there when he watched his family die at hands of Howe, nor was she there to see how much Howe would regret ever corssing the youngest Cousland boy.  And my hero knows Morrigan, he knows that she is not without weakness, without fear. If my hero can take on a High Dragon, Felemeth, a Brood Mother, and an Archdemon than he reasons he has a fair shot at Morrigan even if she does have a powerful child at her side.

Finally the turth of the matter is it's highly likely Morrigan is getting her self a god baby regardless if my hero approves. It's absurd to think that Morrigan's plan completely relied on her being able to bed me or Alistair. I know she has a lot of confidence, but people like her and Flemeth always have back up plans. Yes, Morrigan tells my hero she needs a newly tainted warden to bed her, but is that the whole truth? Morrigan may not lie, but she never tells you the whole truth, and my hero would reason that a newly tainted warden is simply preferable not neccesary, other wise Morrigan would be much more drastic in her attempt to bed my hero or Alistair. Odds are she can bed anyone, she just simply wants my hero first, Alistair second, and everyone else third. So if Morrigan is going to have her plan come to fruition then it's only reasonable to have it serve my hero and Ferelden in some way.

Anyway that's how I reasoned my how hero would accept Morrigan's offer and still be a good guy, it seemed like the best choice all things considered, but some how I have a feeling that it'll end up being if you were good and brave you died, if you were a punk you took Morrigan's offer. Ah well, thoughts anyone?

[Herr Uhl]

So, generally you reason that Ferelden needs GW and that it would not survive without them?



If you say that all three of you die, and you kill the archdemon, then there is no need for GW, unless a new archdemon were to appear. If you do not kill the archdemon, well it's the same scenario whether you greased Morrigans shaft or not.



So it comes down to you thinking that Morrigans baby is less hazardous than Anora as Queen alone?

[eschilde]

I don't really understand this idea that Morrigan would get a demon baby no matter what. The conditions for her to make this baby are pretty exact: she needs a male Warden who hasn't been tainted that long (let's assume <2-3 years) and the death of an archdemon.

Considering that the Wardens in other places probably have more solidarity due to having 1) more people and 2) senior wardens who know what it costs and are willing to take the final blow, the number of people willing to take this huge risk of a great unknown goes way, way down.

(Edit: in economic terms, in the long, long run, we'll all be dead.)

Modifié par eschilde, 07 janvier 2010 - 03:26 .

[Sialater]

Well, I went by your reasoning. Also, the nearest Grey Wardens are Orlesian. And frankly, they owe allegiance to Orlais, not Ferelden or they'd have busted the blockade Loghain set up in order to "end the Blight at all costs."



Didn't we JUST fight a war to kick them out, and lose one of our nation's heroes to paranoia over the possibility of them coming back?

[IronWolf1987]

eschilde wrote...

I don't really understand this idea that Morrigan would get a demon baby no matter what. The conditions for her to make this baby are pretty exact: she needs a male Warden who hasn't been tainted that long (so

Considering that the Wardens in other places probably have more solidarity due to having 1) more people and 2) senior wardens who know what it costs and are willing to take the final blow, the number of people willing to take this huge risk of a great unknown goes way, way down.

(Edit: in economic terms, in the long, long run, we'll all be dead.)

The reasoning is simple. Morrigan joining you on your grand adventure wasn't just to help defeat the Archdemon. Sure it was part of the reason since it does threaten everything, but she clearly has her own motivations, and my PC finds it very hard to believe that all of her plans would rest on being able to seduce my pc or alistair and have no other contigencies, that just simply makes no sense.

[eschilde]

Sialater wrote...

Well, I went by your reasoning. Also, the nearest Grey Wardens are Orlesian. And frankly, they owe allegiance to Orlais, not Ferelden or they'd have busted the blockade Loghain set up in order to "end the Blight at all costs."

Didn't we JUST fight a war to kick them out, and lose one of our nation's heroes to paranoia over the possibility of them coming back?

Actually, Riordan explains why doing so would be a really stupid idea. Loghain outlawed the Wardens and wouldn't let them in, and they know Fereldan has a civil war brewing, and they don't exactly have CNN on telling them exactly what's going on. It is stupid to throw your entire force into the mix with all these things working against you.

[IronWolf1987]

Herr Uhl wrote...

So, generally you reason that Ferelden needs GW and that it would not survive without them?

If you say that all three of you die, and you kill the archdemon, then there is no need for GW, unless a new archdemon were to appear. If you do not kill the archdemon, well it's the same scenario whether you greased Morrigans shaft or not.

So it comes down to you thinking that Morrigans baby is less hazardous than Anora as Queen alone?

Absolutely Ferelden needs GW. This is the fifth blight there are at least two more to go. Furthermore my PC was greatly troubled by the fact that the darkspawn just happened to attack Ferelden the least prepared nation of all when it comes to darkspawn, there is no way that was a coincidence.

And Yes I do think Morrgians baby is less harazdous than Anora. With Anora you know she is her father's daughter, and thanks to Loghain Ferelden just barebly beat back the blight, without Alistairr there to temper her, my PC feels we can expect the same from Anora. Morrigans baby on the other hand may be a super powerful evil, but we'll be there and preapred to fight it, or with any luck maybe it won't be. Maybe Morrigan will get eaten by wolves who knows, but my PC does know Anora.

[eschilde]

IronWolf1987 wrote...

eschilde wrote...

I don't really understand this idea that Morrigan would get a demon baby no matter what. The conditions for her to make this baby are pretty exact: she needs a male Warden who hasn't been tainted that long (so

Considering that the Wardens in other places probably have more solidarity due to having 1) more people and 2) senior wardens who know what it costs and are willing to take the final blow, the number of people willing to take this huge risk of a great unknown goes way, way down.

(Edit: in economic terms, in the long, long run, we'll all be dead.)

The reasoning is simple. Morrigan joining you on your grand adventure wasn't just to help defeat the Archdemon. Sure it was part of the reason since it does threaten everything, but she clearly has her own motivations, and my PC finds it very hard to believe that all of her plans would rest on being able to seduce my pc or alistair and have no other contigencies, that just simply makes no sense.

What she wants is the soul of the Old God (assuming that she is honest about this point). Like I said, for her to get that, she would need a very narrow set of conditions (also assuming she isn't straight up lying about the ritual). Your refusal reduces her chances of success drastically. Considering that she needs to travel with the Wardens for more than a year and work to gain their trust and approval for her to even have a remote chance of getting you to acquiesce, it has to be her best chance of it working. Her contingency plan, if she even has one, has a much lower chance of success.

[robertthebard]

Sialater wrote...

Well, I went by your reasoning. Also, the nearest Grey Wardens are Orlesian. And frankly, they owe allegiance to Orlais, not Ferelden or they'd have busted the blockade Loghain set up in order to "end the Blight at all costs."

Didn't we JUST fight a war to kick them out, and lose one of our nation's heroes to paranoia over the possibility of them coming back?

Nope.  They wouldn't do that, and in fact don't do that because they didn't want to expend their forces fight both Ferelden and the Blight.  This isn't random speculation about why they aren't there either, this is straight from Riorden.  There was indeed a war to drive them out, and this is exactly why they weren't willing to fight Ferelden.  Grey Wardens don't "owe allegiance" to Orlais, they are charged to stop the Blight.  However, if a country rejects them, they are not obligated to risk the lives of everyone that could actually stop the Blight fighting the Nation that's trying to keep them out.  Better to let that nation fall, and then kill the Archdemon.

[IronWolf1987]

eschilde wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Well, I went by your reasoning. Also, the nearest Grey Wardens are Orlesian. And frankly, they owe allegiance to Orlais, not Ferelden or they'd have busted the blockade Loghain set up in order to "end the Blight at all costs."

Didn't we JUST fight a war to kick them out, and lose one of our nation's heroes to paranoia over the possibility of them coming back?

Actually, Riordan explains why doing so would be a really stupid idea. Loghain outlawed the Wardens and wouldn't let them in, and they know Fereldan has a civil war brewing, and they don't exactly have CNN on telling them exactly what's going on. It is stupid to throw your entire force into the mix with all these things working against you.

And what if Anora were to do the same thing? Allowing the Darkspawn to fight a divided Thedas? Sorry, but Anora dommed herself in my PC's eyes when she made it clear she was her Father's Daughter. Calian may have been a naive child seeking adventure, but at least he knew that the darkspawn had to be borught down.

[Sialater]

robertthebard wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Well, I went by your reasoning. Also, the nearest Grey Wardens are Orlesian. And frankly, they owe allegiance to Orlais, not Ferelden or they'd have busted the blockade Loghain set up in order to "end the Blight at all costs."

Didn't we JUST fight a war to kick them out, and lose one of our nation's heroes to paranoia over the possibility of them coming back?

Nope.  They wouldn't do that, and in fact don't do that because they didn't want to expend their forces fight both Ferelden and the Blight.  This isn't random speculation about why they aren't there either, this is straight from Riorden.  There was indeed a war to drive them out, and this is exactly why they weren't willing to fight Ferelden.  Grey Wardens don't "owe allegiance" to Orlais, they are charged to stop the Blight.  However, if a country rejects them, they are not obligated to risk the lives of everyone that could actually stop the Blight fighting the Nation that's trying to keep them out.  Better to let that nation fall, and then kill the Archdemon.

Then, that's not really, "End the Blight at all costs," is it.

[IronWolf1987]

eschilde wrote...

IronWolf1987 wrote...

eschilde wrote...

I don't really understand this idea that Morrigan would get a demon baby no matter what. The conditions for her to make this baby are pretty exact: she needs a male Warden who hasn't been tainted that long (so

Considering that the Wardens in other places probably have more solidarity due to having 1) more people and 2) senior wardens who know what it costs and are willing to take the final blow, the number of people willing to take this huge risk of a great unknown goes way, way down.

(Edit: in economic terms, in the long, long run, we'll all be dead.)

The reasoning is simple. Morrigan joining you on your grand adventure wasn't just to help defeat the Archdemon. Sure it was part of the reason since it does threaten everything, but she clearly has her own motivations, and my PC finds it very hard to believe that all of her plans would rest on being able to seduce my pc or alistair and have no other contigencies, that just simply makes no sense.

What she wants is the soul of the Old God (assuming that she is honest about this point). Like I said, for her to get that, she would need a very narrow set of conditions (also assuming she isn't straight up lying about the ritual). Your refusal reduces her chances of success drastically. Considering that she needs to travel with the Wardens for more than a year and work to gain their trust and approval for her to even have a remote chance of getting you to acquiesce, it has to be her best chance of it working. Her contingency plan, if she even has one, has a much lower chance of success.

My refusal only reduces her chances provided she is being completely honest. Perhaps your pc felt Morrigan was honest with you, mine certainly did not. Then again my PC was a bit paranoid after watching one of his Father's old friends and brother in arms slaughter his entire family. It also doesn't help that Morrigan constatnly argued with my PC, and he had to resort. To using his charms, good looks, and lots of presents to get her in his back pocket.

[IronWolf1987]

Sialater wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Well, I went by your reasoning. Also, the nearest Grey Wardens are Orlesian. And frankly, they owe allegiance to Orlais, not Ferelden or they'd have busted the blockade Loghain set up in order to "end the Blight at all costs."

Didn't we JUST fight a war to kick them out, and lose one of our nation's heroes to paranoia over the possibility of them coming back?

Nope.  They wouldn't do that, and in fact don't do that because they didn't want to expend their forces fight both Ferelden and the Blight.  This isn't random speculation about why they aren't there either, this is straight from Riorden.  There was indeed a war to drive them out, and this is exactly why they weren't willing to fight Ferelden.  Grey Wardens don't "owe allegiance" to Orlais, they are charged to stop the Blight.  However, if a country rejects them, they are not obligated to risk the lives of everyone that could actually stop the Blight fighting the Nation that's trying to keep them out.  Better to let that nation fall, and then kill the Archdemon.

Then, that's not really, "End the Blight at all costs," is it.

True enough, and my pc also took the lesson of warden's keep to heart. Even GW can succumb to politics. The Blight wants Ferelden, the best way to hamper their goals is to make ferleden strong, the best way to do that is to get Alistair on the throne and the GW back in Ferelden.

[robertthebard]

Sialater wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Well, I went by your reasoning. Also, the nearest Grey Wardens are Orlesian. And frankly, they owe allegiance to Orlais, not Ferelden or they'd have busted the blockade Loghain set up in order to "end the Blight at all costs."

Didn't we JUST fight a war to kick them out, and lose one of our nation's heroes to paranoia over the possibility of them coming back?

Nope.  They wouldn't do that, and in fact don't do that because they didn't want to expend their forces fight both Ferelden and the Blight.  This isn't random speculation about why they aren't there either, this is straight from Riorden.  There was indeed a war to drive them out, and this is exactly why they weren't willing to fight Ferelden.  Grey Wardens don't "owe allegiance" to Orlais, they are charged to stop the Blight.  However, if a country rejects them, they are not obligated to risk the lives of everyone that could actually stop the Blight fighting the Nation that's trying to keep them out.  Better to let that nation fall, and then kill the Archdemon.

Then, that's not really, "End the Blight at all costs," is it.

I find it amusing that you would take this position, and yet condemn Loghain for the death of GW's.  All sending in the troops does is risk killing off Grey Wardens fighting a war against Loghain to try to end the Blight.  By this logic, Loghain's decision to not enter the battle at Ostagar makes perfect sense, since he's trying to keep Orlais out at all costs.  He  would throw everything he has at Orlais, and the odds are that if he won, he'd kill off all the Orlesian Grey Wardens too, hence right back in the position of noone to stop the Blight.  Assistance was requested, and then rejected.  Since Ferelden can't make up it's mind what's best for them, let them fall, and then end the Blight.

You see, at all costs doesn't include throwing away any chance at stopping the Blight by fighting the army of the country you're trying to save.  If they don't want saved, then don't save them, then come in and stop the Blight.  This is stopping the Blight, at all costs, it just cost all of Ferelden to do it.

[Sialater]

She was one of my mage elf's best friends. Moira had great sympathy for an apostate mage. it's only a matter of time before Moira goes after her own phylactery.



Morrigan spins the truth better than any spin-doctor. But, in my case, I felt the ritual to be the lesser of two evils. As did Al, since I was completely up front with him about the whole thing. Also, there is a HUGE chance that none of you make it to the archdemon. At all.

[dooie vogel]

My point on all this is that if she really get`s a child with the powers of an old god, how do you know what powers that child has, and like you said, we don`t know the real motive of Morrigan. If this child is able to summon an army of undead then ferelden will be scruwed one way or another.



But my question is, if this was the plan of Morrigan and Flemeth, then when was Flemeth planning on taking over the body of Morrigan? And was the killing of Flemeth always a point in the agenda of Morrigan or was it not?

[eschilde]

My refusal only reduces her chances provided she is being completely honest. Perhaps your pc felt Morrigan was honest with you, mine certainly did not. Then again my PC was a bit paranoid after watching one of his Father's old friends and brother in arms slaughter his entire family. It also doesn't help that Morrigan constatnly argued with my PC, and he had to resort. To using his charms, good looks, and lots of presents to get her in his back pocket.

Well, it does take a bit of metagaming but I have reason to assume that at least part of what she tells you is true: the ritual works. You don't die if you do the ritual. For that to happen, someone has to sleep with her, and why would she bother telling you about it? If you were in a romance, she could just approach you and do it without asking or telling you about it.



If your PC is really that paranoid, why do the ritual at all? If you don't trust Morrigan, why do you think she's not lying to you about the ritual being able to save your life?



If you don't believe she's at least being partially honest, I don't see why you would choose to do anything at all with her, unless you are taking the line of not having anything to lose at this point. And if that's the case, there's not really need to justify any further.

[Sialater]

robertthebard wrote...

Sialater wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Well, I went by your reasoning. Also, the nearest Grey Wardens are Orlesian. And frankly, they owe allegiance to Orlais, not Ferelden or they'd have busted the blockade Loghain set up in order to "end the Blight at all costs."

Didn't we JUST fight a war to kick them out, and lose one of our nation's heroes to paranoia over the possibility of them coming back?

Nope.  They wouldn't do that, and in fact don't do that because they didn't want to expend their forces fight both Ferelden and the Blight.  This isn't random speculation about why they aren't there either, this is straight from Riorden.  There was indeed a war to drive them out, and this is exactly why they weren't willing to fight Ferelden.  Grey Wardens don't "owe allegiance" to Orlais, they are charged to stop the Blight.  However, if a country rejects them, they are not obligated to risk the lives of everyone that could actually stop the Blight fighting the Nation that's trying to keep them out.  Better to let that nation fall, and then kill the Archdemon.

Then, that's not really, "End the Blight at all costs," is it.

I find it amusing that you would take this position, and yet condemn Loghain for the death of GW's.  All sending in the troops does is risk killing off Grey Wardens fighting a war against Loghain to try to end the Blight.  By this logic, Loghain's decision to not enter the battle at Ostagar makes perfect sense, since he's trying to keep Orlais out at all costs.  He  would throw everything he has at Orlais, and the odds are that if he won, he'd kill off all the Orlesian Grey Wardens too, hence right back in the position of noone to stop the Blight.  Assistance was requested, and then rejected.  Since Ferelden can't make up it's mind what's best for them, let them fall, and then end the Blight.

You see, at all costs doesn't include throwing away any chance at stopping the Blight by fighting the army of the country you're trying to save.  If they don't want saved, then don't save them, then come in and stop the Blight.  This is stopping the Blight, at all costs, it just cost all of Ferelden to do it.

Actually, I don't object to Loghain's paranoia about Orlais.  For the most part, I agree with him.  However, his methods were sloppy and ill considered.  You don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.   You don't allow the wiping out of one of Ferelden's oldest Teryns nor the crippling of its greatest weapon just on the OFF CHANCE the Grey Wardens might be sympathetic to a foreign country.  

And as our groups proved, once past the borders, a small small force can move about with impunity within Ferelden itself.

[Bhatair]

I don't know, I viewed it as being too risky. What the Grey Wardens have been doing (the sacrifice) has obviously worked in the past. It sucks that someone has to die, but it rids the world of one Archdemon - permanently.

On the other hand with the ritual the Old God is allowed to live. It may be uncorrupted but it just seems too much of a potential risk to not destroy it.

[robertthebard]

Sialater wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

I find it amusing that you would take this position, and yet condemn Loghain for the death of GW's.  All sending in the troops does is risk killing off Grey Wardens fighting a war against Loghain to try to end the Blight.  By this logic, Loghain's decision to not enter the battle at Ostagar makes perfect sense, since he's trying to keep Orlais out at all costs.  He  would throw everything he has at Orlais, and the odds are that if he won, he'd kill off all the Orlesian Grey Wardens too, hence right back in the position of noone to stop the Blight.  Assistance was requested, and then rejected.  Since Ferelden can't make up it's mind what's best for them, let them fall, and then end the Blight.

You see, at all costs doesn't include throwing away any chance at stopping the Blight by fighting the army of the country you're trying to save.  If they don't want saved, then don't save them, then come in and stop the Blight.  This is stopping the Blight, at all costs, it just cost all of Ferelden to do it.

Actually, I don't object to Loghain's paranoia about Orlais.  For the most part, I agree with him.  However, his methods were sloppy and ill considered.  You don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.   You don't allow the wiping out of one of Ferelden's oldest Teryns nor the crippling of its greatest weapon just on the OFF CHANCE the Grey Wardens might be sympathetic to a foreign country.  

And as our groups proved, once past the borders, a small small force can move about with impunity within Ferelden itself.

The point being that just because you may not like the cost, all of Ferelden, doesn't mean the price isn't being paid.

[cylriasilver]

Basically you trust the "Kill my Mom before she kills me" Morrigan getting a child no matter what more than you trust the "Has already been ruling Ferelden for years" Anora becoming queen in one worst case scenerio.



That's not great logic. I knew I wasn't going to accept Morrigan's offer as soon as she went back into that patented Flemith/Morrigan "that answer isn't important" crap. If she doesn't trust me enought to give me some answers or give a tiny bit of oversight, then she's not going to be trusted with the future of Thedas. Period.

[Maria Caliban]

Sialater wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Nope.  They wouldn't do that, and in fact don't do that because they didn't want to expend their forces fight both Ferelden and the Blight.  This isn't random speculation about why they aren't there either, this is straight from Riorden.  There was indeed a war to drive them out, and this is exactly why they weren't willing to fight Ferelden.  Grey Wardens don't "owe allegiance" to Orlais, they are charged to stop the Blight.  However, if a country rejects them, they are not obligated to risk the lives of everyone that could actually stop the Blight fighting the Nation that's trying to keep them out.  Better to let that nation fall, and then kill the Archdemon.

Then, that's not really, "End the Blight at all costs," is it.

Sure it is. 'End the Blight' isn't 'Save Ferelden.' The only thing the Blight can do after it takes Ferelden is head for Orlais, and Orlais has the most powerful army in Ferelden and is working with the Grey Wardens.

[Sialater]

robertthebard wrote...

Sialater wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

I find it amusing that you would take this position, and yet condemn Loghain for the death of GW's.  All sending in the troops does is risk killing off Grey Wardens fighting a war against Loghain to try to end the Blight.  By this logic, Loghain's decision to not enter the battle at Ostagar makes perfect sense, since he's trying to keep Orlais out at all costs.  He  would throw everything he has at Orlais, and the odds are that if he won, he'd kill off all the Orlesian Grey Wardens too, hence right back in the position of noone to stop the Blight.  Assistance was requested, and then rejected.  Since Ferelden can't make up it's mind what's best for them, let them fall, and then end the Blight.

You see, at all costs doesn't include throwing away any chance at stopping the Blight by fighting the army of the country you're trying to save.  If they don't want saved, then don't save them, then come in and stop the Blight.  This is stopping the Blight, at all costs, it just cost all of Ferelden to do it.

Actually, I don't object to Loghain's paranoia about Orlais.  For the most part, I agree with him.  However, his methods were sloppy and ill considered.  You don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.   You don't allow the wiping out of one of Ferelden's oldest Teryns nor the crippling of its greatest weapon just on the OFF CHANCE the Grey Wardens might be sympathetic to a foreign country.  

And as our groups proved, once past the borders, a small small force can move about with impunity within Ferelden itself.

The point being that just because you may not like the cost, all of Ferelden, doesn't mean the price isn't being paid.

But, you have a choice in what price will be paid, don't you?  Without that ritual, there is at best, ONE Grey Warden left at the end.  And if he's the king, that kinda limits what he can do for recruiting, no?

I actually do find it curious that something that's supposed to have the intelligence of a Mabari (I think that's what it was compared to) rose up in the one nation that was so weak in Grey Wardens that one battle wiped them out (no matter your take on Loghain's teachery).   Wouldn't it be better to have two to stick around and get ready, than one?

[Recidiva]

Morrigan is a power-hungry, terrified (mom's gonna eat me) mage with no respect for kittens or puppies or...anything but Morrigan.



Her ritual is called "the dark ritual" - this ain't Wynne's ritual.



It's bad. Morrigan wants power. This is her path to power and there's no way she's giving a damn about the child or the old god or anything but those things leading her to more personal power.



I consider taking her deal to be one of the greatest potential evils in the game. In fact I can't think of doing much that would be more evil.



If you didn't get that impression, fine, but I can't and haven't seen it any other way, from several playthroughs, being Morrigan's friend, 100 approval, sympathizing with her...it doesn't change. And if you take her to the anvil, she's angry if you don't side with Branka. If she thinks the anvil is a good deal, what do you think she will stop at doing if it comes to it?

[Recidiva]

Sialater wrote...

But, you have a choice in what price will be paid, don't you?  Without that ritual, there is at best, ONE Grey Warden left at the end.  And if he's the king, that kinda limits what he can do for recruiting, no?

I actually do find it curious that something that's supposed to have the intelligence of a Mabari (I think that's what it was compared to) rose up in the one nation that was so weak in Grey Wardens that one battle wiped them out (no matter your take on Loghain's teachery).   Wouldn't it be better to have two to stick around and get ready, than one?

But there are hundreds of years between blights.  There's time and there are more Grey Wardens in the world.  There are plenty in Orlais and the Anderfels.  I'm sure they can make it in time for the next blight.