244 réponses à ce sujet

[IronWolf1987]

Recidiva wrote...

IronWolf1987 wrote...

Well considering that my Warden has pretty much made a living out of doing the impossible and is a master ranger it seems to me that he'd feel confident in being able to find Morrigan, especially if she is running around with a darkspawn tainted child that he would be able to sense.  Besides Morrigan was great at hiding in the Kokari wilds the place she grew up and lived her whole life, how adept is she going to be in a completely foreign land?

As far as the child being inevitable. It most certainly is in my warden's and my opinion. Yes she explains why she needs a newly tainted warden. Does it make sense? Well how would my warden know, it's not like he is an expert on crazy dark rituals to begin with, for all he knows Morrigan is just lying or speaking half truths which he knows she does. But assuming she is telling the truth and she does need a new warden, where does that leave her? Well it means she needs to wait for a new blight. We know two more are coming, and we know she can live for a very long time. So if it doesn't happen this blight why won't it happen the next one? In fact all giving her more time does is allow her to refine her plans, and potentially grow more powerful, and this time she probably won't make the mistake of actually telling the warden what is going on.

Seems to me that the best time to stop Morrigan is now when she is still new at this and hasn't had the luxury of centuries to refine her plan, power and magic.

Well, the best time to stop Morrigan is not giving her what she wants and what she worked so hard to achieve.  Considering she's denied this archdemon's soul, she'll have to wait until the next blight.

This motivation certainly hangs together in a pride way.  But remember, pride's a demon.  Not an angel on your shoulder.

Had you been able to stop Morrigan from "vanishing" at the end of the battle, I'd be on your side.  But you didn't.  And the whole epilogue goes by for years without anybody successfully tracking her down.

Wouldn't it be nice to not have to track her down because you didn't help her at all?  I can't save everyone from everything.  But I can make a few educated guesses and do my best.

Except I don't deny her what she wants, I only it delay it. She has two more Archdemons to make her plan work. While it may be somewhat frusttrating to her to not get it done this time, it's not like time is an issue for her. Consider this do you think the reason why she gets mad or seems kind of sloppy at the whole ritual is because she is still new at this? Perhaps why she gets mad if you refuse is not because you've stopped her, but only because you made a young ambitious woman have to learn patience?

Could the next blight be harder for her to plan work? Possibly, is she going to be more powerful, more seducitve, more ruthless the next time it happens? You better believe it. Is it prideful thinking only me or Alistair are the best chance at taking her down? Perhaps, but is it unfounded consider what else we've accomplished. I don't think so.

[Sialater]

Yeah, you only get that if you're a male romancing Morrigan. The rest of us get to go to the Chantry and pray.

[Recidiva]

TzaTheAncient wrote...

Im not sure. Shes shady but there is (if your a male char) a feeling of adornment for one another through the game. Something more genuine feeling between you and morrigan.

The way the game leads off after you accept the deal also seems to lead that there will be more. Between the passionate sexing up and the possible answers of "i swear I will find you".

I did not find the deal to be evil. Ferelden needs GW's. Morrigan might be up to something but, if you accepted the deal you must know if it backfires and she does something that could be dangerous to others or power hungry then it is your responsibility.

She's awesome even if you're a female character.  I usually do her quests and have her approval to 100, and I love the character, really.  I just don't trust her.

The little speech where she says she considers me a sister and she may not always be worthy of my friendship but she'll always treasure it, is awesome.  Don't get me wrong, I adore Morrigan as a character and I sympathize.

But as the leader of the Grey Wardens, I just can't facilitate her crazy.

[JTBehnke]

Half-elves don't happen because the kid's always human. Half-DWARVES however seem to be a possibility.

[Kohaku]

Jules8445 wrote...

Back to the point of the thread, though.  I agree, Morrigan could be lying.  I think it'll be fun for us to track her down and kick her arse in the expansion if that's the case...and maybe get my rogue and Alistair a little adoptive demon kiddo...since I didn't see any half-elf kids running around I don't think they have any other options.

I wouldn't mind this at all. Keeping the poor thing because her mother fell off the roof by accident.

My two characters I've played the most with consider Morrigan as a friend. She's their BFF behind Alistair I guess. I'm not sure if I'd ever not take the Dark Ritual. Living a little longer just seems a good deal to me.

[eschilde]

IronWolf1987 wrote...

Except I don't deny her what she wants, I only it delay it. She has two more Archdemons to make her plan work. While it may be somewhat frusttrating to her to not get it done this time, it's not like time is an issue for her. Consider this do you think the reason why she gets mad or seems kind of sloppy at the whole ritual is because she is still new at this? Perhaps why she gets mad if you refuse is not because you've stopped her, but only because you made a young ambitious woman have to learn patience?

Could the next blight be harder for her to plan work? Possibly, is she going to be more powerful, more seducitve, more ruthless the next time it happens? You better believe it. Is it prideful thinking only me or Alistair are the best chance at taking her down? Perhaps, but is it unfounded consider what else we've accomplished. I don't think so.

You can deny it within your power, and delay it in a way that drastically reduces her chances of success. I've explained this in like 3 posts in this topic already and don't really feel like quoting myself again. Given that you never get an opportunity to outright kill her, beyond doing that, you can only do what's in your power.

Give her this baby, and you do nothing to alter her chances of getting one or two more old god demon babies later. Her chances don't get better, and they don't get worse, than they would if you chose not to sleep with her. Give it to her, and there's nothing to say that it won't grow up to be more powerful than you will be, or that it won't choose to move until you are dead of the taint. 

Modifié par eschilde, 07 janvier 2010 - 08:02 .

[Recidiva]

robertthebard wrote...

So, the fact that the Blight does indeed end is moot, because a Warden didn't die?  This because I am to take a modern view of "baby's rights" into consideration in a fantasy setting?  It is perfectly acceptable to recruit one into the Grey Wardens against their will, and then drop the bomb on them that they must die to end the Blight?  I'm still curious as to where everyone gets "demon baby" since we know that demon and darkspawn physiology are different, from somebody that could be considered an expert on both, seeing as he's a Grey Warden Blood Mage.  Yes yes, the unfortunately named Archdemon, who's really just a darkspawn tainted Old God.

So tell me, do we know that the GW taint from which ever GW does the ritual won't cancel out the darkspawn taint from the Old God?  Do we know that without the Taint, the Old God is evil?  It seems we put a lot of assumption into the "fact" that the baby can be nothing but evil.  Of course, this stems a lot from people that assume that Morrigan is the "Queen of all That is Evil" in Ferelden, if not Thedas.  If we assume modern morality on this subject, do we even know that the baby won't be stillborn, since the soul of the Old God can't exist in a vessel that has a soul, hence the reason a GW is needed anyway?  No, we don't know any of this, yet we assign the baby with the title of "Demon Baby", and assume that it can only be evil.

So, I reject the proposal that just because a Grey Warden didn't die to end the Blight it doesn't count.  The Epilog told me, upon completion of the game, that the Blight did indeed end, and faser than any Blight in history.  There can be no other interpretation.

I have to disagree that "baby's rights" are modern.  It's a personality characteristic.  If you can consider an unborn child to be a reasonable casualty, I don't think that has anything to do with modern anything.  This is a visceral thing that's part of a person's makeup or not.

Same as I don't have to feel "romantically" betrayed by Alistair if he takes the final blow against my wishes.  I can be pissed that he screwed up my entire strategy and didn't bother to speak up.  Captain goes down with her ship and he messed that up.  So my motivations are personality driven and don't have much to do with what I consider to be politically correct.

These are visceral responses. 

Actually I think the Grey Wardens are non-consent ****s and should insist on disclosure of what drinking the blood will do BEFORE it is done.  I consider it one of those horrific things that makes me hate Grey Wardens in general.  Too bad I don't survive to reform them, but I have to make some choices and there you go.

We don't "know" anything and I'm giving my impressions from my gameplay.  I still see no evidence to trust Morrigan in any sense whatsoever.  She withholds vital information as a matter of course (one of you has to die, my mom's a dragon, I was sent here by my mom the dragon to have this baby, this was our plan all along) and the only way she "keeps" her word is by not giving it.

Her stated philosophy is she cares nothing for individuals who cannot arrange for their own benefit a high level of power and influence and then insists on using it.  She also cares nothing for love or sentimentality.  In fact thinks less of people who profess it, and thinks less of herself when she feels it, and squelches it or avoids it as fast as she can.  The fact that she won't actually sleep with a male when she adores him...kinda telling.

Whether or not you're a woman or you are a mother or a man who is a father, everyone was a child once and the inherent horror of thinking your life would be fodder for someone else's sacrificial power fantasy - not fun

Alistair called it "Demon baby" and it's called a "dark ritual."  Considering Morrigan's powers and intent, what Alistair (and Alistair always "knows" things that I don't) says is the game canon.  I'm just repeating it.

Modifié par Recidiva, 07 janvier 2010 - 08:01 .

[robertthebard]

Recidiva wrote...

I have to disagree that "baby's rights" are modern.  It's a personality characteristic.  If you can consider an unborn child to be a reasonable casualty, I don't think that has anything to do with modern anything.  This is a visceral thing that's part of a person's makeup or not.

Same as I don't have to feel "romantically" betrayed by Alistair if he takes the final blow against my wishes.  I can be pissed that he screwed up my entire strategy and didn't bother to speak up.  Captain goes down with her ship and he messed that up.  So my motivations are personality driven and don't have much to do with what I consider to be politically correct.

These are visceral responses. 

Actually I think the Grey Wardens are non-consent ****s and should insist on disclosure of what drinking the blood will do BEFORE it is done.  I consider it one of those horrific things that makes me hate Grey Wardens in general.  Too bad I don't survive to reform them, but I have to make some choices and there you go.

We don't "know" anything and I'm giving my impressions from my gameplay.  I still see no evidence to trust Morrigan in any sense whatsoever.  She withholds vital information as a matter of course (one of you has to die, my mom's a dragon, I was sent here by my mom the dragon to have this baby, this was our plan all along) and the only way she "keeps" her word is by not giving it.

Her stated philosophy is she cares nothing for individuals who cannot arrange for their own benefit a high level of power and influence and then insists on using it.  She also cares nothing for love or sentimentality.  In fact thinks less of people who profess it, and thinks less of herself when she feels it, and squelches it or avoids it as fast as she can.  The fact that she won't actually sleep with a male when she adores him...kinda telling.

Whether or not you're a woman or you are a mother or a man who is a father, everyone was a child once and the inherent horror of thinking your life would be fodder for someone else's sacrificial power fantasy - not fun

Alistair called it "Demon baby" and it's called a "dark ritual."  Considering Morrigan's powers and intent, what Alistair (and Alistair always "knows" things that I don't) says is the game canon.  I'm just repeating it.

So Morrigan Pre-Ritual == Alistair Pre-Redcliffe, yet Alistair is trustworthy?  Just a note here, not really a good point to the topic.  I just find that curious.

I've done the ritual once, and Loghain did the deed.  I did the ritual, as I stated earlier, because I wanted to insure that I did not die.  331/3% chance that I would die when it's offered, and I'm not into gambling.  I was too pretty to die.  Ok, initially I said too young, but yeah.  I'm not going to say that doing the ritual is required, nor will I say that it's not required.  If, when you are presented with it, you can see any reason to go either way, more power to you.

Regarding the bolded part, this is Morrigan's life, in a nut shell, made worse by the fact that it's possible she didn't know prior to the first Grimoire.  However, even if we assume she did know, this is what she had to grow up with, knowing that her purpose is to serve as "an empty sack, waiting to be filled".  I can't say as I'd blame her one way or the other for wanting Flemeth dead, and really, we have no idea what she intends for the baby.  I've seen the cutscene on youtube where she assures Alistair that he'll never see it again, and I have no problem believing that.

[sacredl]

Hey, hey



you can harden Alistair, FORCE him to marry Anora and let Loghain survive at the same time, then sacrifice Loghain which is probably most happy-without-god-child-ending.



even if Alistair gets creepy and apathic to you (which as you, I mean the hero) he still rules Ferelden wisely with Anora at his side.



I don't know why but people usually even don't know this ending.

[robertthebard]

sacredl wrote...

Hey, hey

you can harden Alistair, FORCE him to marry Anora and let Loghain survive at the same time, then sacrifice Loghain which is probably most happy-without-god-child-ending.

even if Alistair gets creepy and apathic to you (which as you, I mean the hero) he still rules Ferelden wisely with Anora at his side.

I don't know why but people usually even don't know this ending.

In my Loghain sacrifice game, this was my ending.  I much prefer Alistair either drunk somewhere else, or dead on the floor of the Landsmeet, but that's another story.

[eschilde]

@Recidiva You can say that about the baby, but I think you can get Morrigan to say something like, she doesn't regret being raised by Flemeth (if you ask her about having real family) because she's stronger for it. Someone like Morrigan doesn't mind being raised by someone like Flemeth. Maybe your PC feels sorry for her, but I don't believe Morrigan thinks there is anything wrong with how she was raised.

@robertthebard That said, Morrigan may not be evil, but she's not going to raise the kid to be donating to charity. Any child she raised would very likely have similar morals to her own, and Flemeth's; and if it also has potentially royal blood, memories of actually being an old god or an archdemon, or even just very powerful magic, it could be something very dangerous to let loose in the world, regardless of whether or not it started another Blight.

Edit: There's also the possibility that even though it's human shaped it won't have any understanding of pain, etc., as in the trickster whim. Also not exactly the safest thing to be letting loose.

Modifié par eschilde, 07 janvier 2010 - 08:25 .

[sacredl]

robertthebard wrote...

In my Loghain sacrifice game, this was my ending.  I much prefer Alistair either drunk somewhere else, or dead on the floor of the Landsmeet, but that's another story.

drunk Alistair is pretty awesome anyway, lol

anyhow a happy ending is yet a possibility as you tell Alistair to stfu, let Loghain survive, tell Morrigan to gtfo with the demon child so in overall everyone in the mean end is happy (maybe except Alistair a bit, but who cares - esp. since Loghain anyway dies).

Modifié par sacredl, 07 janvier 2010 - 08:29 .

[robertthebard]

eschilde wrote...

@Recidiva You can say that about the baby, but I think you can get Morrigan to say something like, she doesn't regret being raised by Flemeth (if you ask her about having real family) because she's stronger for it. Someone like Morrigan doesn't mind being raised by someone like Flemeth. Maybe your PC feels sorry for her, but I don't believe Morrigan thinks there is anything wrong with how she was raised.

@robertthebard That said, Morrigan may not be evil, but she's not going to raise the kid to be donating to charity. Any child she raised would very likely have similar morals to her own, and Flemeth's; and if it also has potentially royal blood, memories of actually being an old god or an archdemon, or even just very powerful magic, it could be something very dangerous to let loose in the world, regardless of whether or not it started another Blight.

Edit: There's also the possibility that even though it's human shaped it won't have any understanding of pain, etc., as in the trickster whim. Also not exactly the safest thing to be letting loose.

The same could be said for any of the party members.  They are all a cut or two above what most of the citizens of Thedas are going to be equipped to handle.  This will especially be true with a PC that does not die to the Archdemon.  Personal power, and political power included.  Strong ties to the throne of Ferelden, and at the very least Redcliffe.  Powerful most definitely can mean dangerous, but the two aren't mutually exclusive, you can be powerful and not a hazard to everyone around you.  So just because someone may indeed be powerful doesn't mean we should either prevent their existence, or even encourage it.  As I said, I'm not dedicated to the ritual being necessarily good or evil, just a choice.  So your point is 100% valid as a reason to tell Morrigan to take a hike.  I've told her that more than I've accepted the ritual.

[Recidiva]

robertthebard wrote...

So Morrigan Pre-Ritual == Alistair Pre-Redcliffe, yet Alistair is trustworthy?  Just a note here, not really a good point to the topic.  I just find that curious.

I've done the ritual once, and Loghain did the deed.  I did the ritual, as I stated earlier, because I wanted to insure that I did not die.  331/3% chance that I would die when it's offered, and I'm not into gambling.  I was too pretty to die.  Ok, initially I said too young, but yeah.  I'm not going to say that doing the ritual is required, nor will I say that it's not required.  If, when you are presented with it, you can see any reason to go either way, more power to you.

Regarding the bolded part, this is Morrigan's life, in a nut shell, made worse by the fact that it's possible she didn't know prior to the first Grimoire.  However, even if we assume she did know, this is what she had to grow up with, knowing that her purpose is to serve as "an empty sack, waiting to be filled".  I can't say as I'd blame her one way or the other for wanting Flemeth dead, and really, we have no idea what she intends for the baby.  I've seen the cutscene on youtube where she assures Alistair that he'll never see it again, and I have no problem believing that.

No, I don't think Alistair is trustworthy.  But he's not power hungry either.  I can understand that his motivation is intended to avoid responsibility and I've got that covered.  I also know that Morrigan's motivation is to grab responsibility and I'm trying to have that covered too.

I can't blame Morrigan for it.  Morrigan wouldn't have respect for me if I just let her walk all over me either.  Yeah, I make her unhappy.  That makes me much more like her true family in spirit.  She considers me a sister.  That means she's getting her wish.  I make Alistair unhappy.  But I end the blight and I die young and leave a good lookin' corpse.

Morrigan doesn't blame people for going after what they want or believe.  She only blames them for not standing up for themselves.  I stood up for myself.  Even by Morrigan rules, that's nothing but win.

You can decide you have no idea what she intends.  I know that she told me that it was Flemeth's idea.  What do you think she's gonna do?  There aren't too many game red herrings here.  Morrigan knows Flemeth's means and methods and either out of fear or respect, she's going to use Flemeth's means and methods and carry out Flemeth's intended plan. 

Whether or not it would affect my PC or Alistair, there are too many "what ifs" in that to not give me pause to the point of "dead stop."

There's an old story, I've seen it redone on Outer Limits or something.  Mare Winningham, I think, making the choice.  A guy comes to her door and says "If you push this button, it will end the life of someone you don't know.  It won't affect you.  And you can have your dearest wish."  She hems and haws, pushes the button and makes a wish.

Then he smiles, says something to the extent of "Thank you.  I'm going to go make this deal with someone else.  Don't worry, it's not somebody you know."

It's too reminiscent of that story.  I can fill in the blanks to my satisfaction that Morrigan is carrying out Flemeth's will and whether or not it affects me or gives me my greatest wish, it's a bad deal and will bite me or someone else who doesn't deserve it in the ass.  And that's my thinking.   I'm not going to become Duncan and make someone else pay a price for something I could pay myself.

Revenge on Grey Wardens for condemning you to death and resenting that verdict is a fine roleplay reasoning.  But it's revenge, and although understandable, it isn't white or grey, it's black.

My "good" characters truly hate the Grey Wardens for being so secretively slimy.  And they choose sacrifice just 'cause they think it was the best way to play the cards they were dealt.  Though I always relish kicking Duncan's ass in the Fade.

[Recidiva]

sacredl wrote...

Hey, hey

you can harden Alistair, FORCE him to marry Anora and let Loghain survive at the same time, then sacrifice Loghain which is probably most happy-without-god-child-ending.

even if Alistair gets creepy and apathic to you (which as you, I mean the hero) he still rules Ferelden wisely with Anora at his side.

I don't know why but people usually even don't know this ending.

I've done that ending.  Probably my "despise Alistair the most" option.

He is seriously pissy.

[Recidiva]

eschilde wrote...

@Recidiva You can say that about the baby, but I think you can get Morrigan to say something like, she doesn't regret being raised by Flemeth (if you ask her about having real family) because she's stronger for it. Someone like Morrigan doesn't mind being raised by someone like Flemeth. Maybe your PC feels sorry for her, but I don't believe Morrigan thinks there is anything wrong with how she was raised.

Edit: There's also the possibility that even though it's human shaped it won't have any understanding of pain, etc., as in the trickster whim. Also not exactly the safest thing to be letting loose.

I think of her as an abuse victim who thinks you have to abuse to get ahead in this world.  Not because she's thought it through, but because it's all she knows and Flemeth gave her no other options other than to believe.

I don't think she's right.  I think she's stunted and twisted and that's a shame and sad and awful and all that, but I tried as hard as I could to get her to be part of an alternative world and a team that worked together and she rejected it.  So be it.

If Morrigan really looks at Flemeth's life, stories, magic and her crazy disjointed rantings and really thinks "Yeah, that's who I wanna be" she's on her own.

I can feel sorry for a dog that got bit way too young and never had a moment free from rabies in their life, and I can weep for the poor dog.  I'm still gonna shoot it.

[eschilde]

Haha, I've only picked the Dark Ritual ending for my HN romancing Alistair so that I could play as queen in the future. And because being queen is pretty awesome. I didn't bother justifying further than that, because I don't always RP through my plots. Well, a game is supposed to be fun, eh?



I just like to argue points from a 360 POV, that is all ^^

[eschilde]

@Recidiva Oh, I understand and agree with that, my point was that if she raised a kid, it probably wouldn't mind being raised that way, either. So from the kid's point of view, having someone like Morrigan for a mom probably won't be a bad thing. Um. Hm. That's all.

[Recidiva]

eschilde wrote...

@Recidiva Oh, I understand and agree with that, my point was that if she raised a kid, it probably wouldn't mind being raised that way, either. So from the kid's point of view, having someone like Morrigan for a mom probably won't be a bad thing. Um. Hm. That's all.

Well, on the sacrifice vein then.  Would you volunteer to be that kid?  That's the only way I'd consider it "sacrifice" rather than just trusting to Morrigan's motherly virtues and making some random soul pay the price.

Would you volunteer for the worst she could dish out?

[kgav]

I went through with the ritual and I'll do it again.

It comes down to her growth as a character. She starts off as a cold, selfish brat, but over time I seemed to win her over. I have to believe there are redeeming qualities to her personality. She never does anything truly evil, she is a loyal companion to me.

Really people want to talk about worst case scenario, well what is truly the worst case scenario with Morrigan, and the ritual? She has lived her whole life in the wilds with Flemeth. She doesn't seek others out, she doesn't want to rule anyone she wants to live on her own terms and she wants to have the power to protect herself and her freedom.

How many hundreds of years has Flemeth been around? She doesn't rule or seek to rule kingdoms, I believe Morrigan is the same. She will not seek to conquer lands, she will simply seek to live her own life. Maybe she plans to become the next Flemeth and one day possess her own child's body and perhaps truly become immortal but even so I don't see how having an immortal witch living in isolation is so evil.

If the ritual purifies the spirit of the arch demon, then you potentially have a future ally of unrivaled strength.

Modifié par kgav, 07 janvier 2010 - 08:54 .

[ozsras]

I did the ritual once and I'll never do it again.

My PC is not here to save the Archdemon's soul, he's not here to redeem Lohgain, or raise Alistair or anything else for that matter.

His job is to end the Blight. Period. The old saying "the devil you know..." well that's what I think of when Morrigan comes up with her ritual. I know that by killing this Archdemon the Blight is over. But whatever Morrigan has, whatever it is...I don't know. And there are way too many variables in that situation for me to allow her to get away with her plans. I won't faciltate Morrigan and her power plays. She was at 100 friendship my PC and I think she's a great character. But I won't endanger Ferelden or Theadas. And I truly think it's a dangerous decision to make when choosing the ritual.

[Jules8445]

This is such a great conversation! 

It's awesome to see how other players think when going through the game.  So many of the things people are bringing up are things that I would never have thought of as I played through.  It's nice to see the other perspectives.

I still don't know if I'll ever be able to play through as a female character and ignore Morrigan's offer.  I think it throws back a TON to my personality as the player.  I'll probably always end up with my character hooked up with Alistair.  I guess on my play through this time (I'm a human noble)  I can be queen...at least that's what I've read...but ultimately I'll probably always do what it takes to make sure both Alistair and my chara live happily ever after to be together.  

The player in me is kind of excited to send Morrigan off with the chance to screw me over and raise the child to be a nasty blight inducing demon.  I think it would be great twist in an expansion.   

I also still don't see how taking the offer interferes with the GW's responsibilities.  I know Duncan would probably disagree on a pretty fundamental level...but I think we'd just have to agree to disagree on that one.  Kind of like how I agree to disagree that not telling someone they're signing their own death warrent by joining up is bad idea. 

I've talked myself dry in the figurative mouth about Morrigan's motivations and intentions, so I think I'll bow out of here after this so I'm not talking myself to death.   

Thanks for the great debate/perspectives guys!  And your patience with a newb who's only had one playthrough!

[kgav]

ozsras wrote...

I did the ritual once and I'll never do it again.

My PC is not here to save the Archdemon's soul, he's not here to redeem Lohgain, or raise Alistair or anything else for that matter.

His job is to end the Blight. Period. The old saying "the devil you know..." well that's what I think of when Morrigan comes up with her ritual. I know that by killing this Archdemon the Blight is over. But whatever Morrigan has, whatever it is...I don't know. And there are way too many variables in that situation for me to allow her to get away with her plans. I won't faciltate Morrigan and her power plays. She was at 100 friendship my PC and I think she's a great character. But I won't endanger Ferelden or Theadas. And I truly think it's a dangerous decision to make when choosing the ritual.

Just because something has been done a certain way for a long time doesn't mean it is the best way of doing it.

Morrigan always capitulated to my authority throughout the play through. I sent her in to save Connor and she did it and would not make any deals with the demon. She always spots the demons and never attempts to gain power from them. Which means Morrigan is not like Flemeth, according to the legend Flemeth made a deal with a demon to get her revenge and the demon bound to her making Flemeth and abomination. 

It became quite obvious to me throughout my play through that without me the Darkspawn would win. I had Morrigan save Connor, I destroyed the Anvil, I tried to do the right thing at every turn. Am I to suddenly believe things will be fine without me? I don't! I do not completely trust Morrigan but I can handle her if need arises in the future. I don't consider her a lier, she uses omission rather than lies. She is always up front with her opinions. I don't consider her to be evil. She is practical, rational she is what I would be if I were not raised in a loving family. She was taught survival it the top priority in life and simply bases her decisions on that. Being exposed to me has shown her that you can survive and do the right thing, you don't have to take the easy way out at the expense of others.

[Recidiva]

Jules8445 wrote...

This is such a great conversation! 

It's awesome to see how other players think when going through the game.  So many of the things people are bringing up are things that I would never have thought of as I played through.  It's nice to see the other perspectives.

I still don't know if I'll ever be able to play through as a female character and ignore Morrigan's offer.  I think it throws back a TON to my personality as the player.  I'll probably always end up with my character hooked up with Alistair.  I guess on my play through this time (I'm a human noble)  I can be queen...at least that's what I've read...but ultimately I'll probably always do what it takes to make sure both Alistair and my chara live happily ever after to be together.  

The player in me is kind of excited to send Morrigan off with the chance to screw me over and raise the child to be a nasty blight inducing demon.  I think it would be great twist in an expansion.   

I also still don't see how taking the offer interferes with the GW's responsibilities.  I know Duncan would probably disagree on a pretty fundamental level...but I think we'd just have to agree to disagree on that one.  Kind of like how I agree to disagree that not telling someone they're signing their own death warrent by joining up is bad idea. 

I've talked myself dry in the figurative mouth about Morrigan's motivations and intentions, so I think I'll bow out of here after this so I'm not talking myself to death.   

Thanks for the great debate/perspectives guys!  And your patience with a newb who's only had one playthrough!

Well, the main reason GW's drink the blood is because the archdemon's soul is obliterated when you make the killing blow.  That's the whole point to drinking the blood and flat out killing at least 2/3 of the applying population to GWs.  Obliterated is better than "mysteriously deferred."   Since GWs are expected to give up everything and sacrifice everything, that's their creed and motto.  They do make clear you're expected to die.

I think if the choice had been reasonable, Morrigan would have told you earlier on to get you used to the idea.  And she wouldn't have insisted on skipping out to raise the child on her own.  Had she chosen to stay in Ferelden and let the King and Queen and various court members help raise the child...maybe...maybe I'd have thought there might be something good to it.   But she says "Don't ask, I won't tell."  And I don't like that policy particularly.   Makes sense to me that if Morrigan has a child with the taint, an old god's soul and all that stuff, she's not only in line to possibly have an heir to Ferelden's throne (if Alistair's the father) or she theoretically will be able to control the soul of an old God with a connection to the taint so that she can then rule over and command Darkspawn and have them be her armies.  Sounds like Morrigan heaven to me.

If you want to be queen and not a GW, it makes sense.  And that's why the choice is there.  Hell, you ended the blight, put your feet up and wear the tiara.  I'm totally cool with anybody's character choices.  I think it's fun to compare experiences.  

[kgav]

Recidiva wrote...

Well, the main reason GW's drink the blood is because the archdemon's soul is obliterated when you make the killing blow.  That's the whole point to drinking the blood and flat out killing at least 2/3 of the applying population to GWs.  Obliterated is better than "mysteriously deferred."   Since GWs are expected to give up everything and sacrifice everything, that's their creed and motto.  They do make clear you're expected to die.

I think if the choice had been reasonable, Morrigan would have told you earlier on to get you used to the idea.  And she wouldn't have insisted on skipping out to raise the child on her own.  Had she chosen to stay in Ferelden and let the King and Queen and various court members help raise the child...maybe...maybe I'd have thought there might be something good to it.   But she says "Don't ask, I won't tell."  And I don't like that policy particularly.  Makes sense to me that if Morrigan has a child with the taint, an old god's soul and all that stuff, she's not only in line to possibly have an heir to Ferelden's throne (if Alistair's the father) or she theoretically will be able to control the soul of an old God with a connection to the taint so that she can then rule over and command Darkspawn and have them be her armies.  Sounds like Morrigan heaven to me.

If you want to be queen and not a GW, it makes sense.  And that's why the choice is there.  Hell, you ended the blight, put your feet up and wear the tiara.  I'm totally cool with anybody's character choices.  I think it's fun to compare experiences.  

Nothing in the entire game ever leads one believe Morrigan seeks power over others. If anything the entire game Morrigan would be happier out in the Wilds away from people. I don't think there is a logical basis for this line of thought. If anything perhaps Morrigan see the child as a potential immortal vessel she my be able to one day possess. Morrigan is not a conquerer. 

Modifié par kgav, 07 janvier 2010 - 09:45 .