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Does Bioware has writing quality control?


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#176
Maxster_

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[quote]silverexile17s wrote...
1. WOW. I cannot even BEGIN to attempt to measure the shear arrogance of that statement.
This convinces me that you are just trolling out of shear spite. I mean, saying "I know better" yet not offering anything that actually proves that statement?
You really aren't making a good case for yourself.
[/quote]
You have no credibility to say such things.
You just making up "proof", every time you need it, and call it "discussion".
[quote]
2. Again, saying that they're wrong and your right, yet offering nothing to prove it. Just saying "I'm right" doesn't make you right.
Again, you are Blueprotoss 2.0.
Just because you personally didn't enjoy ME3's plot, doesn't mean that's true of others. I've seen just as many posts on this page saying they enjoyed the game as there have been posts that decryed it.
[/quote]
Gibberish.
As always.
[quote]
3. People like you are exactally why threads get shut down. Instead of offering constrcutive critisism, you make asspulls while accusing others of doing so. Again, Blueprotoss 2.0.
BOTH can be considered aspects of quality writing. Literal Values can be good Entertainment, and vice versa. There is NO DIFFERENCE between them. And quality writing is subjective.
You can learn that by reading Shakespere:whistle:
[/quote]
Gibberish.
You haven't even read my post, just proceeded to spew your nonsense, again.
[quote]
4. Did you even read what he wrote?

He offered up the possibilaty that whatever the protheans did to the Citidel rendered the Catalyst dormant, and that Sovergien was trying to wake it back up.
[/quote]
Yeah, yeah, protheans suddenly changed catalyst, having no idea he even existed. By changing keepers.
Another asspull.
[quote]
Also, waiting for Sovergien to re-open the Citidel gate is called the "path of least resistance." It's quicker and easier then treaking all the way from dark space "on foot."
Also, I point you to the living starships that are created by absorbtion of DNA. That doesn't seem any less unlikely then the Crucible. Nither does reviving someone from brain-death.
[/quote]
Nonsense.
[quote]
Also, I remind you that a giant Reaper-killing doomsday weapon was no more or less rediculas then the prospect of the Reapers themselves. Or the Collectors and what they are doing. The skill of exicution may have varried on them, but the plots themselves are all on the same level of pontental absurdness or believeabilaty. Weather or not they are inferiour or superiour is a matter of opinion.
[/quote]
You have problem with reading comprehension, but i already know that.
[quote]
5. It proves that retcons are possible to do without drasticlly altering, or in the best case, even ever touching the story, since they work to never show anything that diffinitively proves one thing or another until the big reveal.
And again, Crucible and Catalyst are no more "crap writing" then the Reapers themselves are.
[/quote]
You have no idea what good writing is. But that's not news for anyone.

[quote]6. No. That's YOU. Or you are just ignoring it because it doesn't fit your preconceptions.
I remind you that between the massive human population on Omega to recrut from, and the good publicity they built up from fighting the Collectors, the fact that their recrutement went up like 600% isn't as far-fetched as you think.
Also, making several billion a year? Over 30+ years? That builds up quite a bit. We never saw the true extent of Cerberus before. Who's to say they haven't been biding their time all along? Building up ships for the possibilaty of alien attack, to help humanity fight back? The ships and bases they have are a good number for a group with that kind of funding over three decades.
[/quote]
Bull****.
Go read ME books.
It is useless, of course, given your ignorance, but for EAWare defenders, such books are unbreakable canon. Anyway, you, as always, just making up "proof" which contradicts ME lore to "prove" your "point".

[quote]
Also, I remind you that the galaxy had no clue about the strength of the geth, or of the existance of the Collectors and the Reapers. Given the Councils actions in-game, them not having a clue about Cerberus' strength is par for the course if you ask me.
[/quote]
Yes, yes, Cerberus are now stellar civilization, with lots of settled planets, large shipyards, and vast economics.
Image IPB
[quote]Also, the books aren't perfect cannon, as Deception's retcon proves.[/quote]
There were no rewrite of Deception.
[quote]
7. Earth was burning, and the Council was just going to stand by and watch, letting the Reapers harvest Earth so that they could regroup and defend their own worlds. They were basically marytring Earth, and the core of his entire race, right in front of him.
What would you do in that position? If you had a chance to svae them when seemingly no one else gave a damn, wouldn't you take the chance?
Combine those above points with his humanity first thought-process, and the distain he had for the Council's policies, and it wasn't really that surprising that he worked with Cerberus.
And your points about Udina's Cerberus ties would have been completely null and void had the coup suceeded.
[/quote]
Image IPB
I have no words. You haven't even read what i posted, but i already got used to such your behavior.
[quote]
8. ME3's devs having no clue what they were doing is a matter of opinion. And you have no diffinitive proof of such.
Quality control has no real impact on good or bad games. Just look at Mindjack, Sonic: Free Riders and Steel Batallion: Heavy Armor.
[/quote]
What a pile of bull****.
[quote]
ME3's plot is no more or less garbage then it's predessors, as ME1's plot (giant living spaceships that wipe out all advanced life every 50,000 years) and ME2's plot (Protheans are alive, and making Reapers out of our DNA, which is detached from the main Reaper-fighting storyline) are no worse then ME3's plot (Reaper-killing doomsday weapon). If anything, ME3's plot is downright sane compaired to the storylines that came before.
[/quote]
ME3 "plot" is garbage, because it based on nonsense(Crucible, Cerberus Empire) and nullifies it's prequels(reapers arrival, Catalyst).
Missed the point as always.
Also, there were no alive protheans in ME2. Only husks. 
[quote]
Again, the story being bad is a matter of opinion, and as shown on this very thread, people enjoied it regardless of the game's flaws. After all, I doubt that there is a game that doesn't have flaws.
[/quote]
No, fiction being low-quality or high-quality is objective.
And liking or disliking is subjective.
But you have no idea what subjectivity and objectivity even means, so irrelevant.
[quote]
And if anything, ME2 is the one with the most nonsensical plot (Shepard get's brought back to life? Protheans are still alive? Reapers are made from liquid DNA? Geth are the good guys? What does any of this have to do with the plot of the last game?). If anything, ME3's writing is right on par with ME2. And at least ME3 stays with the original plot of fighting the Reapers.
[/quote]
Yeah, ME2 main plot is garbage also, but at least it did not nullified ME1. And there were great sidestories.

#177
silverexile17s

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[quote]Maxster_ wrote...

[quote]silverexile17s wrote...
1. WOW. I cannot even BEGIN to attempt to measure the shear arrogance of that statement.
This convinces me that you are just trolling out of shear spite. I mean, saying "I know better" yet not offering anything that actually proves that statement?
You really aren't making a good case for yourself.
[/quote]
You have no credibility to say such things.
You just making up "proof", every time you need it, and call it "discussion".
[quote]
2. Again, saying that they're wrong and your right, yet offering nothing to prove it. Just saying "I'm right" doesn't make you right.
Again, you are Blueprotoss 2.0.
Just because you personally didn't enjoy ME3's plot, doesn't mean that's true of others. I've seen just as many posts on this page saying they enjoyed the game as there have been posts that decryed it.
[/quote]
Gibberish.
As always.
[quote]
3. People like you are exactally why threads get shut down. Instead of offering constrcutive critisism, you make asspulls while accusing others of doing so. Again, Blueprotoss 2.0.
BOTH can be considered aspects of quality writing. Literal Values can be good Entertainment, and vice versa. There is NO DIFFERENCE between them. And quality writing is subjective.
You can learn that by reading Shakespere:whistle:
[/quote]
Gibberish.
You haven't even read my post, just proceeded to spew your nonsense, again.
[quote]
4. Did you even read what he wrote?

He offered up the possibilaty that whatever the protheans did to the Citidel rendered the Catalyst dormant, and that Sovergien was trying to wake it back up.
[/quote]
Yeah, yeah, protheans suddenly changed catalyst, having no idea he even existed. By changing keepers.
Another asspull.
[quote]
Also, waiting for Sovergien to re-open the Citidel gate is called the "path of least resistance." It's quicker and easier then treaking all the way from dark space "on foot."
Also, I point you to the living starships that are created by absorbtion of DNA. That doesn't seem any less unlikely then the Crucible. Nither does reviving someone from brain-death.
[/quote]
Nonsense.
[quote]
Also, I remind you that a giant Reaper-killing doomsday weapon was no more or less rediculas then the prospect of the Reapers themselves. Or the Collectors and what they are doing. The skill of exicution may have varried on them, but the plots themselves are all on the same level of pontental absurdness or believeabilaty. Weather or not they are inferiour or superiour is a matter of opinion.
[/quote]
You have problem with reading comprehension, but i already know that.
[quote]
5. It proves that retcons are possible to do without drasticlly altering, or in the best case, even ever touching the story, since they work to never show anything that diffinitively proves one thing or another until the big reveal.
And again, Crucible and Catalyst are no more "crap writing" then the Reapers themselves are.
[/quote]
You have no idea what good writing is. But that's not news for anyone.

[quote]6. No. That's YOU. Or you are just ignoring it because it doesn't fit your preconceptions.
I remind you that between the massive human population on Omega to recrut from, and the good publicity they built up from fighting the Collectors, the fact that their recrutement went up like 600% isn't as far-fetched as you think.
Also, making several billion a year? Over 30+ years? That builds up quite a bit. We never saw the true extent of Cerberus before. Who's to say they haven't been biding their time all along? Building up ships for the possibilaty of alien attack, to help humanity fight back? The ships and bases they have are a good number for a group with that kind of funding over three decades.
[/quote]
Bull****.
Go read ME books.
It is useless, of course, given your ignorance, but for EAWare defenders, such books are unbreakable canon. Anyway, you, as always, just making up "proof" which contradicts ME lore to "prove" your "point".

[quote]
Also, I remind you that the galaxy had no clue about the strength of the geth, or of the existance of the Collectors and the Reapers. Given the Councils actions in-game, them not having a clue about Cerberus' strength is par for the course if you ask me.
[/quote]
Yes, yes, Cerberus are now stellar civilization, with lots of settled planets, large shipyards, and vast economics.
Image IPB
[quote]Also, the books aren't perfect cannon, as Deception's retcon proves.[/quote]
There were no rewrite of Deception.
[quote]
7. Earth was burning, and the Council was just going to stand by and watch, letting the Reapers harvest Earth so that they could regroup and defend their own worlds. They were basically marytring Earth, and the core of his entire race, right in front of him.
What would you do in that position? If you had a chance to svae them when seemingly no one else gave a damn, wouldn't you take the chance?
Combine those above points with his humanity first thought-process, and the distain he had for the Council's policies, and it wasn't really that surprising that he worked with Cerberus.
And your points about Udina's Cerberus ties would have been completely null and void had the coup suceeded.
[/quote]
Image IPB
I have no words. You haven't even read what i posted, but i already got used to such your behavior.
[quote]
8. ME3's devs having no clue what they were doing is a matter of opinion. And you have no diffinitive proof of such.
Quality control has no real impact on good or bad games. Just look at Mindjack, Sonic: Free Riders and Steel Batallion: Heavy Armor.
[/quote]
What a pile of bull****.
[quote]
ME3's plot is no more or less garbage then it's predessors, as ME1's plot (giant living spaceships that wipe out all advanced life every 50,000 years) and ME2's plot (Protheans are alive, and making Reapers out of our DNA, which is detached from the main Reaper-fighting storyline) are no worse then ME3's plot (Reaper-killing doomsday weapon). If anything, ME3's plot is downright sane compaired to the storylines that came before.
[/quote]
ME3 "plot" is garbage, because it based on nonsense(Crucible, Cerberus Empire) and nullifies it's prequels(reapers arrival, Catalyst).
Missed the point as always.
Also, there were no alive protheans in ME2. Only husks. 
[quote]
Again, the story being bad is a matter of opinion, and as shown on this very thread, people enjoied it regardless of the game's flaws. After all, I doubt that there is a game that doesn't have flaws.
[/quote]
No, fiction being low-quality or high-quality is objective.
And liking or disliking is subjective.
But you have no idea what subjectivity and objectivity even means, so irrelevant.
[quote]
And if anything, ME2 is the one with the most nonsensical plot (Shepard get's brought back to life? Protheans are still alive? Reapers are made from liquid DNA? Geth are the good guys? What does any of this have to do with the plot of the last game?). If anything, ME3's writing is right on par with ME2. And at least ME3 stays with the original plot of fighting the Reapers.
[/quote]
Yeah, ME2 main plot is garbage also, but at least it did not nullified ME1. And there were great sidestories.

[/quote]
1. Again, your proof is...?:wizard:
Seriously, your talking to your own reflection. What makes you the be-all, know-all? I sure haven't seen anything that proves it. Until you show something that does proves it, don't talk about credibilaty.

2. No refute:wizard:
Just admit that you don't have a responce. Your pride and bias for BioWare can't possibly be that inflated.

3. ...I think you need glasses.
I just stated that you were wrong about your assumption on literal values and entertainment.
You telling me you misread your own topic?
Also, why not refute by listing what I missed, and what counters me, instead of a vage "you missed the point" asspull?

4. It's called "Locking down the system." The Citadel's Core, where the Catalyst was located, was basically put into shut-down, leaving the Keepers on auto-pilot since they didn't accept signals from anywhere else. They've been runing the Citidel all that time on their own, hence the Catalyst never being active during ME1.
It's a reasonable explination. It's not rocket science. A 6th grader could see that.
Your excusess are the asspull.

5. And the reason it's nonsence is?:wizard:
You have no refute for that. No proof of anything that counters that. Honestly, the reason the Crucible is an asspull compaired to bringing someone back from literal brain-death, and having a dead race suddenly come back to build Reapers from our liquidated DNA is.
"Nonsence"
No reasoning. No counter-agruement. Just... "nonsence." With nothing that proves it so. As if just saying "nonsense" automatically makes you right.

That's just sad.
Seriously, put up something. Your just embaressing yourself at this point.

6. The posts here, which have varried opinions on ME3's plot, contridict your assumption.
ME3's plot is no more or less breaking the limits of believabilaty then the events of the last two games.

7. Again, the varied opinions on this very page discredit your claim.

8. You mean like how you haven't posted any supporting lore yourself?
And when you say reed the books, it helps to name them.
Honestly, this vague ass-pulling habit of yours is getting old.
I mean, you hear on the Normandy that Cerberus got popular for fighting the Collectors, and on Cronos Station, EDI says that colonists were mass recruted via indoctriniaton. That builds up an army quick.
Their army isn't an impossible occurance.

9. Were the Collectors a stellar civilization, with lots of settled planets, large shipyards, and vast economics?
No. They were isolated, with limited forces, and only one key base of operations. They have no government, so they have no economy. And as slaves, they had no civilization. They lost that trait when they became Reaper-drones.
Also, geth don't settle plantes. They have orbital space stations. They also have no known economy.
Reapers have none of the above. They don't settle, they don't make perminate shipyards, they have no economy, or a civilization.

Seroiusly, learn the lore.

Point is, the Council knew nothing about the strength of the geth, or the existance of the Collectors and Reapers beyond their myths. Not knowing about Cerberus is par for the course.

10. ... Do you live under a rock?
https://docs.google....?pli=1&sle=true
Go to that webpage, or google Mass Effect: Deception retcon. The book is being retconed. And BioWare is only just now checking on the progress of the retconned version.

11. So you would just stand there and watch your whole race burn and die, while your colieges knowingly do so to save their own people?
It's called "desperation." Anyone with a little something called "humanity" would know the effects of that. And that given Udina's past beliefs and stances, this shouldn't be that surprising.
And again, you didn't say what part I didn't answer. Honestly, enough with your asspulls. Just give a real refute to the question, or admit your wrong.

12. No refute. Again:wizard:

13. Again, that's any less unbelievable then the concept of the Reapers coming to wipe us out every 50,000 years?
Or bringing someone back to life from brain death?
Or the geth being the good guys?
Or the cyber-zombie husks in general?
Or that Reapers are made from liquidated DNA?
Or the Metroid Prime-style boss battle with the Human-Reaper?

Seriously, it's no more unbelieveable a concept as those.

And the point remains, those husks lasted 50,000 years. It was something that no one would have believed, had it not been a game.
I think you are trying to ignore the point the moment it turns against you. Just like Blueprotoss.

14. The varring opinions of ME3 on this very thread disprove your words.

15. ME3 did not nullify ME1's plot. (As shown above regarding Cerberus recrutment, and the Catalyst being dormant) Ask around. Of course, whenever anyone gives you an explination to that, you juts dance around it with asspulls.
And ME2 was basically one big side-mission.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 05 janvier 2013 - 02:08 .


#178
silverexile17s

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Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

A future where gamers have the power to get an ending to a game changed because they don't like it, is not a better future.

"Oh we're the saviors of gaming! We'll save all you dirty peasants who likes the terrible endings, with our superior and highly sophisticated views!" Laughable.


It's happened with ME3 and with Fallout 3.
If anything, that IS what's going to happen.

There's an entire article on GameSpot on how the Mass Effect 3 ending could have empowered gaming.
Fan feedback is half the game. The EC proves that.
Don't be so arrogant to others. Yes, ME3 is a good game, but I can't stand to see people that either ignore ALL  the good elements (i.e_Maxstor), and people that ignore ALL the faults (i.e Blueprotoss, you).

#179
Brovikk Rasputin

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Now, to be fair, I don't see how there could be ANY doubt about the question in the OP. ME3 provided me with many hours of amazing entertainment. I really felt immersed into a wonderful new universe, which I haven't experienced since Mass Effect 2.

In my opinion, Mass Effect 3 is a great game with great writing.

In my opinion.

#180
silverexile17s

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Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Seival wrote...

Kira Sierra Cyrus wrote...

Basically what it is in the title: does Bioware has some kind of writing quality control? Or people like Mac Walters are free to use whatever nonsense they can come up with?

Yes, I'm partularly talking about the absurdity of endings (Star Child concept). I reinstalled ME3 not a long time ago, hoping that Extended Cut brought something actually new to the table, but it only expanded on the overall failure of original concept.

Spoiler
 


There is no nonsence in ME3.

...But BSN clearly needs some kind of face control already, because it's overflowed by people who are unable understand what the game and its developers tell them.

The problem is not in the ending concept. The problem is in your understanding of this concept.

Couldn't have said it better myself, though I don't think it's because they're unable to understand but because they don't WANT to understand.

That applys to you too. You can't just look at the good aspects. You need to acknolodge the faults as well, just as BioWare themselves acknolodged them when they made the EC.

#181
silverexile17s

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Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Now, to be fair, I don't see how there could be ANY doubt about the question in the OP. ME3 provided me with many hours of amazing entertainment. I really felt immersed into a wonderful new universe, which I haven't experienced since Mass Effect 2.

In my opinion, Mass Effect 3 is a great game with great writing.

In my opinion.

While there were parts of the game I didn't like (the endings for one), I admit that there is still great writing in the story.
While I agree that it's still a good, entertaining game - hell, a great game if played with imports- The game isn't as perfect as you seem to believe. Especally regarding how the ending can take you out of the entertainment and immsersion if you invest TOO much in it.

But, then again, that's MY opinion.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 05 janvier 2013 - 03:04 .


#182
Optimus J

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silverexile17s wrote...

While there were parts of the game I didn't like (the endings for one), I admit that there is still great writing in the story.
While I agree that it's still a good, entertaining game - hell, a great game if played with imports- The game isn't as perfect as you seem to believe. Especally regarding how the ending can take you out of the entertainment and immsersion if you invest TOO much in it.

But, then again, that's MY opinion.

What is good? Rannoch and Tuchanka that were so well make that not even the scalpel of "Casey, the ripper" could cut their beauty?

Because the rest of the game was so downsized and cut to rush things that there is no entertainment coming from it.

Modifié par Optimus J, 05 janvier 2013 - 04:20 .


#183
silverexile17s

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Optimus J wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

While there were parts of the game I didn't like (the endings for one), I admit that there is still great writing in the story.
While I agree that it's still a good, entertaining game - hell, a great game if played with imports- The game isn't as perfect as you seem to believe. Especally regarding how the ending can take you out of the entertainment and immsersion if you invest TOO much in it.

But, then again, that's MY opinion.

What is good? Rannoch and Tuchanka that were so well make that not even the scalpel of "Casey, the ripper" could cut their beauty?

Because the rest of the game was so downsized and cut to rush things that there is no entertainment coming from it.

Yes, I admit the best parts of the game are Rannoch and Tuchanka. The Cerberus Coup is entertaining, but underwhelming. And Priority:Earth is just plain underwhelming. (understatement, I'm guessing) ESPECALLY at the ending choice.
The squad and former squad members, as well as the Normandy crew, are well-written, and have great moments. The Diolouge is on par with the last games, if more linear then before.
The major problem in the diolouge (aside from a lot of auto'd)is that there seems to no longer be any gray in the diolouge options. There's either Paragon or Renagade. Nothing really rewards you for trying to find a middle path.
The missions felt as good as the ones in the last game. And the thing that really keeps people coming back it the multiplayer. Arguebly, it's all that keeps most coming back after the first 2 playthroughs or so.
It may or may not be up to par with the last two, but it's still a fun ride.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 05 janvier 2013 - 05:27 .


#184
knightnblu

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If there is someone looking out for continuity at BioWare they are doing a terrible job of it. Judging by what has been released I doubt that there is control above the dept. level.

#185
silverexile17s

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knightnblu wrote...

If there is someone looking out for continuity at BioWare they are doing a terrible job of it. Judging by what has been released I doubt that there is control above the dept. level.

I suppose Deception's retcon is good proof of that. They don't seem to closely watch anything that isn't in-game related.
(Brace yourself. This is a long haul)
Deception's Lore flaws/nitpicks:
(Ranking: L1 = minor flaw. L2 = moderate flaw. L3 = Major flaw)

1. (L1)The Citadel is described as being star shaped.
- Whilst the Citadel does have five arms arranged around a ring, even when it is fully opened, the arms are not in the same plane as the central ring; rather, they are oriented straight forward [Error, Lore]

2. (L3) There is a batarian embassy in the Citadel
- Batarians closed their embassy after the Citadel Council sided with the human Systems Alliance during a colonization dispute over the Skyllian Verge, and there is no mention of their embassy being re-established in the previous installments, nor any plans to do so in the future. [Error: Lore]

3. (L1) Kai Leng visits Chora's Den
- Chora's Den was closed after Sovereign’s attack on the Citadel. It never re-opened. [Error: Lore]

4. (L1) Citadel surrounded by stars
- The Citadel is in the middle of a nebula with only one star- Widow - nearby and clearly visible. A few others are only faintly visible through the gas. [Error: Lore]

5. (L3) Kai Leng one-shot kills a krogan by slicing into the back of its neck and severing the spine
- Krogan biology does not work this way. 1) There is a large hump that makes access to the rear of the neck difficult. 2) Most blades (save for a molecular blade) cannot penetrate the thick hide covering the rear of the neck. 3) Even if the spine was severed, the krogan still would not die, as krogan are uniquely equipped with organ redundancy. Instead of an analogue to the human nervous system, they have a second circulatory system with an electrically conductive fluid. [Error: Lore]

6. (L2) Deception claims the asari found the Citadel first and subsequently learnt to use mass effect technology - Obviously wrong.The asari could not have reached the Citadel at all without using mass effect technology. [Error: Lore]

7. (L1) Asari are said to be asexual
- In ME1, Liara describes Asari as mono-gender, all female species. [Error: Lore]

8. (L2) Asari Council member saying "My God"
- Asari do not believe in any form of male god. Their religious mainstream is a pantheistic belief system called "siari," which postulates that all living beings in the universe are of a single essence. The closest analogue to the monotheistic "God" is a faith in the Goddess Athame. The correct exclamation is “By the Goddess”. [Error: Lore]

9. (L3) Kai Leng visits an auction house on the batarian homeworld Khar'Shan
- The batarians live on their homeworld in self-imposed exile. This extreme doctrine of isolationism has led the Hegemony (the batarian government) to ban its citizens from travelling outside batarian space. This travel embargo stems both ways: While batarians cannot legally leave for other territories, Khar'Shan and all its attendant colonies are also closed off to all foreign races - especially humans. And a Cerberus operative being there only raises even more plotholes. (it should also be noted that an asari, a turian, and another human were also present in the batarian auction house, with a volus acting as the auctioneer). [Error: Lore]

10. (L3) Batarian pirates slave-raid on the turian homeworld of Palaven (?!?!?! WTF?! Were the writers even trying?!?!)
- Whilst not impossible, this is incredibly unlikely due to the militaristic nature of turian society: All turians serve fifteen years in the armed forces (starting from age 15), and the turian race possesses one of the largest military fleets in the galaxy. Had there been a raid on Palaven, it would have likely have been met with overwhelming military force. (After all, if the turians were able to keep the Reapers themselves at bay, it's highly unlikely a small group from a minor rouge faction could set foot on Palaven and live) [Error: Lore]

11. (L1)The public is allowed in the Citadel Council chamber
- In the first Mass Effect game, Avina states that very few people are granted access to the Council Chamber. Certainly not the vocal crowds described in Deception. [Error: Lore]

12. (L1)Gillian's visit to Afterlife
- Afterlife is the most popular bar on Omega and people wait hours to get in (Retribution, Mass Effect 2). In Deception, Gillian enters immediately and without any trouble from the bouncers. [Error: Lore]

13. (L2) Quarian clothing
- Quarians wear environmentally sealed suits to protect their weakened immune systems. They do not wear "a motley collection of clothing, held together by a variety of straps and metal fasteners". [Error: Lore]

14. (L3) Batarian Slave Ship released to Gillian and company by quarians
- Quarians view ships as one of their most precious resources, and they would not be so willing to part with a fully functional ship by giving it to Gillian, especially one that has what appears to be a “Tantalus drive core”. [Error: Lore]

15. (L1)Thousands dead every day
- The novel states that thousands die on the Citadel every day, but given the approximate population of 13 million, this is excessive. [Error: Lore]

16. (L2)Beryllium is no longer toxic
- At one point, Gillian finds and carries with her slugs of beryllium with no visible repercussions. This might be reasonable so long as the beryllium stays in slug form. If, however, she is ever exposed to it in powdered form (e.g., it is milled, filed, scraped, scratched, or exploded), it would be extremely toxic. Also worth noting is that even in solid form, beryllium is a skin irritant to many people. In addition, the six kilo belt that Gillian was carrying would take up 3.24 L - a ridiculous size. [Error: Lore]

17. (L1) Beryllium as currency
- It is stated that criminal enterprises are forced to use beryllium (amongst other things) as a form of currency because credits can be tracked. This is in no way stated in any other supplemental material or in the games themselves. All transactions made thus far were done using credits almost exclusively. Whilst it’s certainly possible that beryllium could be a valued commodity, it’s doubtful that there would be any sort of proper exchange rate - and one could always use physical credit chits if one wanted to avoid a paper trail. [Error: Lore]

18. (L3) Quarian ships visit Omega on regular basis and maintain a warehouse
- The Migrant Fleet is forever travelling from system to system because the quarians are still technically at war with the geth. Quarian ships occasionally stop on a planet or hubworld to trade for resources, but they do not maintain permanent outposts or warehouses. In fact, because of the sheer size of the Fleet and its reliance on strip-mining, a sizable amount of quarian resources are acquired as "gifts" given to dissuade them from staying in one area of space for extended periods. In Mass Effect 2, Tali’Zorah mentions that the quarians maintain secure drop zones, but Omega would not be one of these places, as the majority of quarians avoid Omega; and if there were such a dropzone or warehouses on Omega, then Kenn would not have had such difficulties in leaving Omega in Mass Effect 2. [Error: Lore]

19. (L2) "No" to the quarian embassy
- The asari Councilor objects to a quarian embassy "because it implies the existence of an cohesive government", despite the fact that the quarians have a very well-structured government and have had one for centuries. [Error: Lore]

20. (L1)Shella is described as a freelancer Kai Leng hired on Omega who didn’t know his true identity
- She was a full-fledged member of Cerberus and the one who called TIM to report Grayson’s capture. In fact, the entire team was composed of Cerberus operatives. [Error: Lore]

21. (L1)Shella claims more than once she didn’t know Kai Leng was going to kill Liselle
- Kai Leng ordered the entire team to take out the asari if they got the chance before they even went into the apartment. And Deception makes it clear that Shella isn’t just lying to cover up her involvement. [Error: Lore]

22. (L1)TIM doesn’t know who Shella is
- As mentioned above, she was the Cerberus member who was tasked with reporting to TIM that Grayson had been caught. [Error: Lore]

23. (L1)Kai Leng is said to have been in the Alliance Marine Corps
- While he was an Alliance marine, there is no “Alliance Marine Corps”.  It is not a separate service branch. [Error: Lore]

24. (L3) Kai Leng was an “N6” rated soldier in the Alliance
- According to Mass Effect 3 and Retrubution, Leng was actually designated as N7 in the Systems Alliance military (while “N” designates a soldier belonging to Special Forces, “7” is the highest level of proficiency that a soldier can obtain) [Error: Lore]

25. (L2) Anderson thinking that the Citadel trap had been sprung “so successfully” they were still reparing damage  
- The premise of the first game is that Shepard and her or his squad prevented that particular Reaper plan from succeeding. The damage to the Citadel mostly resulted from Sovereign's destruction. [Error: Lore]

26. (L3) A holo of Grayson being implanted depicts large cables attacking him and burrowing into his body and him pleading for death
- In Retribution, he was implanted surgically with Reaper nanotech (which gradually constructed cabling over a long period of time), and was unable to speak at all during the procedure, much less able to beg for mercy.  Additionally, he never spoke to his Cerberus captors after the implantation was complete. [Error: Lore]

27.(L3) Two volus are described as wearing masks that don’t completely cover their faces
- This would result in instant death for a volus, as they must wear completely sealed environmental suits that provide both the ammonia atmosphere and high pressure they require to survive, lest their skin literally split open. The suits also keep them isolated from the oxygen-nitrogen mixture breathed by other species, as it is poisonous to them. [Error: Lore]

28. (L3) Anderson is repeatedly said to be employed by the Council
- He quit in Retribution under rather dramatic circumstances - circumstances that are never properly acknowledged in Deception. [Error: Lore]

29. (L2) Gillian is supposedly only allowed to participate in defending the Idenna because she’s 18 and thus not a minor
-  In Mass Effect 2, Han’Gerrel recalls being a trainee on a gunship with Rael’Zorah whilst still “underage”, and participating in combat on that ship during a batarian raid. He and Rael were subsequently sent off on Pilgrimage early as a result of their actions. In addition, quarians do not determine majority by one’s age, but rather by completion of the Pilgrimage. [Error: Lore]

30. (L2) The quarians transfer the rescued slaves over to the Idenna without any sort of decontamination procedures
-  Even after rigorous decontamination (ship and personal) and preparation (via anti-biotics and supplements), quarians still do not remove their suits within the Flotilla's sterile environment barring certain, special circumstances. Boarding a group of former slaves would be unthinkable, especially people who were as filthy as these. [Error: Lore]

31. (L1) The Citadel is said to have a “red ward” and a “blue ward” - These have never been mentioned and don’t fit into the established naming scheme for the wards. [Error: Lore]

32. (L1) The Dark Star is described inaccurately - It is said to be on the 28th floor of a generic skyscraper, and to have an excellent view of the Presidium ring. In addition, it is said to be a quiet place filled with people in formal wear and gaming machines and not the sort of place to find a “working stiff”.  In actuality, it is on the 28th level of Zakera Ward, has no view of the Presidium (though Zakera Ward itself does), is a loud dance club with no gambling and a place where you can talk to blue-collar folk, like the Presidium groundkeeper. [Error: Lore]

33. (L2) Anderson and Kahlee are said to have “joined forces to battle the Spectre named Saren”
- They did not.  At no point did either ever fight against Saren, and Anderson was in fact working with him for a good portion of the book "Revelation".  The closest either got to “battling” him was Anderson attempting to grab him once during an argument over Saren’s ruthless methods.  It didn’t work. [Error: Lore]

34. (L2) The surface of Omega
- At one point Leng is said to have returned to the “surface” of Omega. Omega is a space station built into an asteroid, it has no proper surface. (Cited: “Having been returned to Omega’s surface Leng had elected to visit one of his favorite restaurants rather than return to the safe house.” p.225 Google Preview). Also, at one point there was mention of a door leading to a complex built underneath rocky hills. Due to the already explained structure of Omega, where the actual station hangs from the asteroid above, there is no way something natural like rock could be part of the structure, let alone hills of the mineral.

35. (L1)The Illusive Man’s motivations to turn on Grayson
-  When speaking to the Council Anderson says, “There is evidence that Paul Grayson, the man who invaded the academy and murdered a number of staff members, was a Cerberus operative at one time. Then, for reasons we aren’t sure of, the Illusive Man turned on him." This is illogical, as the “we” refers to him and Kahlee, the latter of whom knew that Grayson turned on the Illusive Man first. [Error: Lore]

36.(L1)Reaper influence on Grayson
- At the Council meeting Anderson says, "It’s difficult to say exactly how much influence the Reapers had over Grayson, but we think it was extensive.” This, despite the fact that the woman who directly spoke to the Reapers through Grayson is standing next to him. [Error: Lore]

37. (L1)Turian saints
- At the auction on Khar’Shan, one of the items bid on are the “tears of a turian saint”. The turian religion has no known saints. [Error: Lore]

38. (L1)Omega’s Eezo
- Deception states that Omega is still a source of eezo, even though the mines have long since been tapped out. “Now, thanks to both the element zero mines and its location deep inside the lawless Terminus systems, Omega served as a tax- free port where pirates, mercenaries, slavers, assassins, and criminals of every race could trade, rest, and enjoy their profits.” [Error: Lore]

39.(L1)Day and night on the Citadel
- Dietz states in Deception that the entire Citadel simulates day and night, while according to the in-game codex, this is only true for the Presidium. [Error: Lore]

40. (L1)Omega has “artificial daylight” cycles
- Similar to the above post on the day/night cycles on the Citadel. However, Omega has never had artificial lights to simulate “daylight” at certain hours of the day in any of its previous appearances in the Mass Effect series. [Error: Lore]

41.  (L2) A man named Leng
- While dying, Nick talks about Kai Leng as if he doesn’t know him - yet Kai Leng had been introduced to the Biotic Underground several times before that and in Retribution Kai Leng manipulated him into getting shot in the stomach (you'd think one would remember that) and Anderson was present for this incident, so he would have told Nick about Leng. [Error: Lore]

42.  (L2) The meaning of the quarian phrase “keelah se’lai”
- According to Deception, the quarian phrase “keelah se’lai” translates out to “As our ancestors will it”, but in Mass Effect 3, Tali’Zorah states that the closest transition of the phrase is actually “By the homeworld I hope to see someday”. (note: while this error may be due to the novel Deception being released before the Mass Effect 3 video game, the fact remains that no one edinever met ting the novel bothered to check directly with BioWare over whether or not Dietz’s translation was accurate to the series planned lore) [Error: Lore]

Deception's Timeline flaws
1. (L1)Hendel is said to have never visited Omega before
- Hendel was on Omega in Ascension for three chapters. [Error: Timeline]

2. (L2)Hendel knows Anderson and knows not only that Anderson and Kahlee are now together, but also where they live on the Citadel
- Hendel had never met Anderson before this book, and Kahlee and Anderson only reunited in Retribution, years after Hendel had left with the Idenna.  Retribution also states that Kahlee has not been in contact with either him or Gillian since the end of Ascension. [Error: Timeline]

3. (L3) Gillian and Nick are 18 years old in Deception
-  They were both twelve-going-on-thirteen in Ascension, set a bit less than three years prior to Deception; in Retribution, which takes place mere months prior to the events of Deception, Nick was just fifteen. [Error: Timeline]

4. (L3) Aria Learns that Cerberus killed her daughter, but continues working for them in Invasion
- Cerberus is able to reach an agreement with Aria in Retribution because they promise information on her daughter's killer.  In the Invasion comic series, which takes place after Deception, Aria continues to work with Cerberus and even allows them access to the Omega 4 Relay. Yet, according to Deception, before this, she discovers that Kai Leng was the one who killed her daughter, and vows never to work with Cerberus again. [Error: Timeline]

5. (L3) Ugho is in charge of the defense against the batarian slavers
-Unlikely, as he died during the Cerberus attack on the Idenna during the events of Mass Effect: Ascension, about a year prior. [Error: Timeline]

6. (L3)Timeline Issues
- During the three years since Ascension, both Nick and Gillian have aged six years. In addition, the attack on the Citadel is said to have taken place two years earlier, despite it actually taking place three years earlier. Among other issues. [Error: Timeline]

7. (L2)Gillian received a pendant containing data on Cerberus from her father before leaving Grissom Academy
-  This is a double-edged error: Gillian left the company of Paul Grayson in Ascension.  Deception also makes it so Grayson sent this gift right before Cerberus captured him...which happened over two years after Gillian left the academy. In other words, the pendant must also be capable of time-travel. [Error: Timeline]

Deception's Technology errors.
1. (L1) Quarians referred to as “Gas suckers”
- Their masks only look like gas masks; their actual function is the filtration of air. Whilst this term is probably being used in a derogatory manner, the fact that quarians use enviro-suits hasn’t been used mockingly in the past, making it odd.  A more precise, or possibly wider accepted racial slur would be “buckethead.” [Error: Technology ]

2. (L3) Tantalus Drive Core on a batarian ship (Oh, shoot me)
- Though the Tantalus Drive is referred to as "standard," it was actually a highly secret, experimental drive core first used on the human-turian built SSV Normandy. It’s doubtful that a dated batarian ship would have one. Additionally, such a core is by itself equivalent to the cost of an entire cruiser class ship. [Error: Technology]

3. (L2) Biotics are suddenly classified by their power level
-  There are continual references to people being “Level One”, “Level Two” and “Level Three” biotics, “Three” supposedly being the strongest. There is no such classification scheme, and it appears to result from confusing the implant designations (e.g. L2 and L3)  with an individual’s intrinsic potential. This error is compounded by the fact that, in ME1, it is mentioned that those with L2s can sometimes get better results than those with the newer L3 series, as L2s allow the biotic to "spike higher." [Error: Technology]

4. (L1)Hand Weapons that fire at "relativistic speeds" - For those who do not recognise the term, relativistic speed denotes "close or approaching the speed of light." It is usually used when discussing speeds higher than 10% of C (approx. greater than 29979246 metres/s). Considering that a sand corn fired at such speeds will have the impact of 90 kg TNT, and that the main gun on an Everest class dreadnought only fires at 1.3% of C, one could say that relativistic speeds might be an overestimate. [Error: Technology]

5. (L3) No Kinetic Barriers(?!?!)  (Oh, GOD, COME ON!!)
-In the ME games, as well as previous books, all hardsuits come with kinetic barriers (AKA" shields") that must be broken before the user can be killed by ranged weaponry. In Deception, there is only mention of weapons "chewing through armor" or poor references to biotic barriers on characters wearing hardsuits a là Nick. [Error: Technology]

6. (L1)Character(s?) in Deception use their biotic abilities repeatedly
- In ME canon, use of biotic abilities is described as extremely tiring, requiring an extended rest period after using them multiple times in rapid succession, as well as requiring brief breaks in between each use. [Error: Technology]

7. (L3) Gillian gets new biotic implants in a few hours-long (?) operation in a non-medical facility
- Biotic implants interface directly with the nervous system and the operation to replace them is considered extremely dangerous, to the point that even biotics who have crippling side-effects from their implants are usually unwilling to run the risk of brain damage and other permanent, deleterious effects. [Error: Technology]

8. (L1) Characters use advanced biotic powers with no prior training
 - After getting her “implants” changed Gillian is able to "reave" and biotically “charge”, abilities that before were advanced and mostly exclusive to Shepard.  Hendel creates a gravitational singularity with ease, despite never having that power and being surprised when Gillian herself used it in Ascension. [Error: Technology]

9. (L2) Biotic terminology
- In addition to the other problems related to biotic implants, Dietz consistently confuses the implants with biotic amps - which are wholly different things. [Error: Technology]

10. (L1)Asari Air Kisses (WTF?)
- At one point Gillian and another biotic have an “asari air kiss” (which has never been mentioned in previous works) that causes the air around them to crackle with their biotic power. Nothing has ever suggested that biotic power works this way. [Error: Technology]

11. (L2)Gillian “sensing” that a pair of asari strangers were capable of biotics (This is not Star Wars, and biotics are not the Force)
- Biotic ability cannot be sensed in this way, and as all asari are natural biotics, it is not something she needed to do anyway. [Error: Technology]

12. (L2) Anderson claims Omega has no public newscasts
- Background radio newscasts in Mass Effect 2 begs to differ. [Error: Technology]

13.(L1) Waiting for the slavers
- When the quarians first detect the batarian slavers, they have almost an hour of warning. Rather than immediately jumping into FTL and making themselves undetectable to their enemies, they simply stand and wait for the much more powerful ship to reach them. [Error: Technology]

14. (L1)It is stated that it is “impossible to see anything” in FTL
- This is untrue.  To quote the Codex: “As the subjective speed of light is raised within the field, objects outside will appear to red-shift, eventually becoming visible only to radio telescope antennae. High-energy electromagnetic sources normally hidden to the eye become visible in the high blue spectrum. As the speed of light continues to be raised, x-ray, gamma ray, and eventually cosmic ray sources become visible. Stars will be replaced by pulsars, the accretion discs of black holes, quasars, and gamma ray bursts.” [Error: Technology]

15. (L1)C-Sec Checkpoints
- In Deception, Kai Leng passes through a C-Sec checkpoint by providing a fake ID chip and colored contact lenses to bypass an ocular scanner. However in Mass Effect 2 it is stated, and even experienced by the player, that C-Sec uses a highly advanced DNA detection system which is extremely sensitive and nigh impossible to fool, even with genetic modification. [Error: Technology]

Deception's Character errors
1. (L3) Gillian's autism is never mentioned
- The closest the book gets is noting that she was an “unstable twelve-year-old” and a passing reference to her having a “temper.” This is not presented as a disability, but rather an adolescent phase she has largely "gotten over." [Error: Characters]

2. (L1)Quarian names
- Titling a quarian “Fothar vas Maynar” and referring to him as “Maynar” means that he is being addressed by the name of his ship, not by his own name. This mistake is repeated in the case of several quarians. [Error: Characters]

3. (L1)Friendship of Gillian and Nick
- Gillian interacted with Nick only once (during Ascension), when Nick attempted to bully her. Nick was consequently flung twenty-odd feet into the air and landed onto a table around which Gillian unleashed a powerful singularity. This is hardly the definition of friendship. [Error: Characters]

4. (L1)Gillian knowing about her adoption
- Nothing suggests this in Ascension or even in Retribution. In fact Grayson had strict orders from TIM to pretend to be her real father. He never wavered from this role. [Error: Characters]

5. (L1)Gillian claiming that other children in the Academy tormented her  
-  Nothing suggests this. In fact, they paid her very little notice; the incident with Nick was unique. Gillian even thinks to herself in Ascension that they never even teased her to her face. [Error: Characters]

6. (L2) Aria T'Loak never uses her biotic abilities, nor are they mentioned
- Aria is a very powerful, highly-skilled biotic, but in Deception she never utilises her abilities, and it’s implied she needs her "Level 3 adept" bodyguards to put up barriers and counter biotic attackers. (Bullsh*t!!) [Error: Characters]

7. (L1) Hendel Mitra is described as ogling asari strippers, a very heterosexual reaction
- Hendel was difinitively established as homosexual in Ascension. [Error: Characters]

8. (L1) Quarian's names, continued
- None of the quarians named in Deception have a clan-name, which is akin to a family name or surname (previous examples from Mass Effect video game/s: Tali'Zorah, Han'Gerrel, Daro'Xen, Shala'Raan, et al). [Error: Characters]

9. (L1)Udina not "named" as the Human Council member
- By this time, Udina is the canonical human Council member in the Mass Effect universe, but Dietz refuses to use Udina's name for the human Councillor throughout the entire novel (despite the fact that the character's personality is clearly presented as Udina's, and that there can be no other individual in this role given the events of Retribution and Mass Effect 3). [Error: Characters]

10. (L2) Referring to Aria as “T’Loak” and Kai Leng as “Leng”
- In previous works, these characters are either referenced by first or full name (e.g. "Aria wants to speak to you") but now subordinates simply call Aria "T’Loak." This is not so in Invasion, therefore it cannot simply be new subordinates referring to her by this name. [Error: Characters]

11. (L3) There is no T’Loak family
- Aria attends a funeral for her daughter where she is joined by members of the T’Loak family.  However, "Aria T’Loak" is a pseudonym, as Aria is on the run from old rivals, creditors and the law.  It is extremely unlikely that she would return to Thessia, the asari homeworld, where it would be much easier to track her down. [Error: Characters]

12. (L1) Kai Leng knows who Liselle is
- In Retribution, Liselle’s identity as Aria’s daughter isn't well known, and Kai Leng did not know her name at all. In Deception, Kai Leng knows who she is quite well. [Error: Characters]

13. (L3)Aria does not recognise Kai Leng despite having seen him before
-  In Retribution, Kai facilitates the agreement between TIM and Aria. During this meeting, Aria examines him rather closely, even noting his tattoo work (tattoos which are never once mentioned in Deception). [Error: Character]

14. (L3)Kai Leng enjoys watching an asari dancer, going so far as to wink at her
- Kai Leng was always discribed as xenophobic, and is physically repulsed by aliens. In Retribution, he is completely uninterested in Liselle’s nudity, thinks of asari as “whorish,” and finds the sights of Afterlife disgusting. [Error: Character]

15. (L2) Anderson and Kahlee are said to have started a relationship during Revelation
- They did not. The attraction was acknowledged, and the possibility of a relationship discussed, but, ultimately, it was agreed that it would not work. [Error: Character]

16. (L1)Hendel was given the title “Hendel Vas Idenna” by the quarians for seemingly no reason
-  A quarian’s “ship name” is only earned after he or she has completed the Pilgrimage and has presented a Pilgrimage “gift” to the captain of the ship that he or she wishes to serve on. [Error: Character]

17. (L1)The volus information broker Barla Von is described as one of Anderson’s “close friends”
- In actuality, the two characters have never met in either the video games or the previous novels. Anderson is only vaguely aware of Barla Von’s reputation and rumoured connection to the Shadow Broker in Mass Effect 1. [Error: Character]

Deception's Lore oddities.

1. (L3) TIM's hideout
-  In Retribution, it is written that TIM is hiding on a space station that relocates after each visitor - including high-clearance operatives like Kai Leng. In Deception, TIM resides on a planet, where he remains even after Leng's visit. It is even explicitly referred to as his “home”. [Oddity: Lore]

2. (L1)Lack of security in Afterlife
- In Retribution, Aria uses a hidden backdoor to arrive to and depart from Afterlife without her patrons' knowledge; similarly, she has a series of backrooms for private conversation. In Deception, she drives up to the front entrance in a limo, passing by several enemies who would want to kill her, and takes a call from the Illusive Man in her main lounge. [Oddity: Lore]

3.(L2) Kai Leng's Equipment is Inadequate
- In Retribution, Kai Leng uses a six man commando team to take down a non-biotic Paul Grayson. Later, he goes on to use a state-of-the-art surveillance suite to log Aria's comings and goings - a system that would alert him so that he could use the proper facilities when needed.  Now, he attempts a solo op to take down Gillian, who is known to be a powerful biotic, and uses a sniper rifle to survey the main entrance of Afterlife. This method forces to pee into a vase so as not to miss anything. [Oddity: Lore]

4. (L1)Female salarian mercenary
- A female salarian merc appears at one point during Deception. It is well established that 90% of the salarian population is male, and, being such, females usually stay on their homeworlds as wielders of significant political power. Despite this, her presence in a low-rent Omega merc band is not considered at all remarkable. She’s simply there to be a red shirt in one scene. [Oddity: Lore]

5. (L2)Aria allows Cerberus to keep a base of operations on Omega by the time Invasion occurs, despite finding out that Cerberus was responsible for her daughter’s death
- Aria knows that Kai Leng is a Cerberus agent (see 59), but, in Deception, after learning that he is responsible for her daughter’s murder, she allows Cerberus to continue operations on Omega. (Mass Effect’s head writer Mac Walters previously established that the Deception novel would take place before the Invasion comic series in the ME universe timeline.) [Oddity: Lore]

6.  (L2) Kahlee tells the Council that Grayson “doted on” Gillian
- Grayson rarely saw his adopted daughter, and was the definition of an absentee father. He loved her, but he did not lavish attention on her. [Oddity: Lore]

7. (L1)A salarian is said to have “Big , luminous eyes”
- Salarian eyes do not glow. Nor has there ever been one with eye coloration that would allow this to make sense figuratively. [Oddity: Lore]

8. (L3)Keepers strangely absent
- Despite large parts of the novel being set on the Citadel (including scenes in the lower levels of infrastructure), keepers are neither encountered nor mentioned. In Mass Effect lore, they are an ubiquitous presence on the station. [Oddity: Lore]

9. (L3)Kai Leng goes to the auction to acquire a bio-weapon tuned to TIM’s DNA
- Because TIM is, put mildly, a very private and secretive man whose location and true identity are known to very few, it is unlikely that anyone besides a high-clearance Cerberus operative could manage the means to devise such a weapon. (Although, Miranda Lawson, post ME2 after TIM tries to off her, could be a viable canidate, but explination would be needed on means and oppertunity to how she got his DNA) The book never explains where the weapon came from, nor how TIM's DNA was aquired to code the weapon, and completely drops the subject after the prologue. [Oddity: Lore]

10. (L3)For murdering a krogan on the Citadel, Kai Leng is sentenced to serve at the “brutal prison ‘Misery’”
- The notion that the Systems Alliance would openly support what is essentially a “murder-prison” - a facility with no cells or guards (located off-site, observing the inmates kill each other for amusement), a place where the prisoners engage in a brutal system of Darwinian self-governance (tribes of convicts are constantly fighting and murdering each other in perpetual warfare) severely stretches the suspension of disbelief. That the Alliance would sentence an N7-trained Special Forces officer to such a facility is incredibly ludicrous. [Oddity: Lore]

11. (L1)Watching the sunset
- Anderson and Kahlee watch the sunset on Eden Prime, though as the planet has a 64-hour day, this would last quite some time. [Oddity: Lore]

12. (L2)HMBA amps
- Whilst in "Hu-Town," Gillian has her old implants removed and replaced with implants produced by HMBA. Disregarding that implant removal is in of itself nearly never done, HMBA-produced amps are listed as gear for Citadel Spectres, only available through a licensed requisitions officer. It is unlikely that any vendor in "Hu-Town" (a ghetto) would be selling them. [Oddity: Lore]

13. (L1)Poor Citadel Security
- The security that Kahlee and Anderson go through to visit the Council is incredibly primitive compared to the security required to even get into the wards during Mass Effect 2.

14. (L1)The Grim Skulls
- In Revelation Saren wiped out most of the Grim Skulls mercenary group, while they appear no worse for wear in Deception.

15.(L1) Boxes of ammo
- “Boxes of ammo” are mentioned in Deception- though this could refer to thermal clips.

1. (L1)Caring about Gillian
- The text mentions that “The first emotion Gillian experienced was a deep and abiding sorrow. She was forever cut off from the only person who hadn’t been paid to care about her.” In fact, Gillian was currently on a ship full of people who cared about her without having been paid, including Hendel, who left his life behind to take care of her. [Oddity: Characters]

2. (L1)People Gillian can count on
- Following the previous scene the narrative states that: “Gillian’s sorrow began to morph into anger as she thought about what had been taken from her. The only person other than Hendel that she could count on.” This, despite the fact that she is on a ship full of quarians who agreed to care for her at her most desperate, and whose lives she just saved. [Oddity: Characters]

3. (L1)Kai Leng and salarian curry - At one point Kai Leng eats some salarian curry, which is odd considering that he hates anything and everything to do with aliens. There’s also the fact that curry refers to a variety of South Asian dishes.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 07 janvier 2013 - 04:27 .


#186
Grubas

Grubas
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Keep in mind that Deception is canon.
Bioware expects you to headcanon the differences away, because they can't explain you every little thing, e.g.: take you by the hand.

Wouldn't it be funny, if bioware released Extended Cut of Deception, to validate all the errors, because of artistic integrity?

You know, because of the vocal minority of haters... 

And Seival and Brovvik would come up and defend the beauty of Deception...  

Modifié par Grubas, 05 janvier 2013 - 10:35 .


#187
Ninja Stan

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Maxster_, if you continue to respond to people with nothing but insults and name-calling, I will remove your posts.

#188
Maxster_

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silverexile17s wrote...
Nonsensical headcanon skipped

I have no desire to waste more time on you, it is useless. You'll just fill another theme with your self-contradicting nonsense, just like two previous.

#189
Seboist

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Judging by the likes of Lazarus and Space Terminator, Bioware has the same quality control that Ed Wood had in "Plan 9" or "Glen or Glenda".

Modifié par Seboist, 05 janvier 2013 - 06:12 .


#190
WhiteKnyght

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silverexile17s wrote...

knightnblu wrote...

If there is someone looking out for continuity at BioWare they are doing a terrible job of it. Judging by what has been released I doubt that there is control above the dept. level.

I suppose Deception's retcon is good proof of that. They don't seem to closely watch anything that isn't in-game related.
(Brace yourself. This is a long haul)
Deception's Lore flaws/nitpicks:
(Ranking: L1 = minor flaw. L2 = moderate flaw. L3 = Major flaw)

1. (L1)The Citadel is described as being star shaped.
- Whilst the Citadel does have five arms arranged around a ring, even when it is fully opened, the arms are not in the same plane as the central ring; rather, they are oriented straight forward [Error, Lore]

2. (L3) There is a batarian embassy in the Citadel
- Batarians closed their embassy after the Citadel Council sided with the human Systems Alliance during a colonization dispute over the Skyllian Verge, and there is no mention of their embassy being re-established in the previous installments, nor any plans to do so in the future. [Error: Lore]

3. (L1) Kai Leng visits Chora's Den
- Chora's Den was closed after Sovereign’s attack on the Citadel. It never re-opened. [Error: Lore]

4. (L1) Citadel surrounded by stars
- The Citadel is in the middle of a nebula with only one star- Widow - nearby and clearly visible. A few others are only faintly visible through the gas. [Error: Lore]

5. (L3) Kai Leng one-shot kills a krogan by slicing into the back of its neck and severing the spine
- Krogan biology does not work this way. 1) There is a large hump that makes access to the rear of the neck difficult. 2) Most blades (save for a molecular blade) cannot penetrate the thick hide covering the rear of the neck. 3) Even if the spine was severed, the krogan still would not die, as krogan are uniquely equipped with organ redundancy. Instead of an analogue to the human nervous system, they have a second circulatory system with an electrically conductive fluid. [Error: Lore]

6. (L2) Deception claims the asari found the Citadel first and subsequently learnt to use mass effect technology - Obviously wrong.The asari could not have reached the Citadel at all without using mass effect technology. [Error: Lore]

7. (L1) Asari are said to be asexual
- In ME1, Liara describes Asari as mono-gender, all female species. [Error: Lore]

8. (L2) Asari Council member saying "My God"
- Asari do not believe in any form of male god. Their religious mainstream is a pantheistic belief system called "siari," which postulates that all living beings in the universe are of a single essence. The closest analogue to the monotheistic "God" is a faith in the Goddess Athame. The correct exclamation is “By the Goddess”. [Error: Lore]

9. (L3) Kai Leng visits an auction house on the batarian homeworld Khar'Shan
- The batarians live on their homeworld in self-imposed exile. This extreme doctrine of isolationism has led the Hegemony (the batarian government) to ban its citizens from travelling outside batarian space. This travel embargo stems both ways: While batarians cannot legally leave for other territories, Khar'Shan and all its attendant colonies are also closed off to all foreign races - especially humans. And a Cerberus operative being there only raises even more plotholes. (it should also be noted that an asari, a turian, and another human were also present in the batarian auction house, with a volus acting as the auctioneer). [Error: Lore]

10. (L3) Batarian pirates slave-raid on the turian homeworld of Palaven (?!?!?! WTF?! Were the writers even trying?!?!)
- Whilst not impossible, this is incredibly unlikely due to the militaristic nature of turian society: All turians serve fifteen years in the armed forces (starting from age 15), and the turian race possesses one of the largest military fleets in the galaxy. Had there been a raid on Palaven, it would have likely have been met with overwhelming military force. (After all, if the turians were able to keep the Reapers themselves at bay, it's highly unlikely a small group from a minor rouge faction could set foot on Palaven and live) [Error: Lore]

11. (L1)The public is allowed in the Citadel Council chamber
- In the first Mass Effect game, Avina states that very few people are granted access to the Council Chamber. Certainly not the vocal crowds described in Deception. [Error: Lore]

12. (L1)Gillian's visit to Afterlife
- Afterlife is the most popular bar on Omega and people wait hours to get in (Retribution, Mass Effect 2). In Deception, Gillian enters immediately and without any trouble from the bouncers. [Error: Lore]

13. (L2) Quarian clothing
- Quarians wear environmentally sealed suits to protect their weakened immune systems. They do not wear "a motley collection of clothing, held together by a variety of straps and metal fasteners". [Error: Lore]

14. (L3) Batarian Slave Ship released to Gillian and company by quarians
- Quarians view ships as one of their most precious resources, and they would not be so willing to part with a fully functional ship by giving it to Gillian, especially one that has what appears to be a “Tantalus drive core”. [Error: Lore]

15. (L1)Thousands dead every day
- The novel states that thousands die on the Citadel every day, but given the approximate population of 13 million, this is excessive. [Error: Lore]

16. (L2)Beryllium is no longer toxic
- At one point, Gillian finds and carries with her slugs of beryllium with no visible repercussions. This might be reasonable so long as the beryllium stays in slug form. If, however, she is ever exposed to it in powdered form (e.g., it is milled, filed, scraped, scratched, or exploded), it would be extremely toxic. Also worth noting is that even in solid form, beryllium is a skin irritant to many people. In addition, the six kilo belt that Gillian was carrying would take up 3.24 L - a ridiculous size. [Error: Lore]

17. (L1) Beryllium as currency
- It is stated that criminal enterprises are forced to use beryllium (amongst other things) as a form of currency because credits can be tracked. This is in no way stated in any other supplemental material or in the games themselves. All transactions made thus far were done using credits almost exclusively. Whilst it’s certainly possible that beryllium could be a valued commodity, it’s doubtful that there would be any sort of proper exchange rate - and one could always use physical credit chits if one wanted to avoid a paper trail. [Error: Lore]

18. (L3) Quarian ships visit Omega on regular basis and maintain a warehouse
- The Migrant Fleet is forever travelling from system to system because the quarians are still technically at war with the geth. Quarian ships occasionally stop on a planet or hubworld to trade for resources, but they do not maintain permanent outposts or warehouses. In fact, because of the sheer size of the Fleet and its reliance on strip-mining, a sizable amount of quarian resources are acquired as "gifts" given to dissuade them from staying in one area of space for extended periods. In Mass Effect 2, Tali’Zorah mentions that the quarians maintain secure drop zones, but Omega would not be one of these places, as the majority of quarians avoid Omega; and if there were such a dropzone or warehouses on Omega, then Kenn would not have had such difficulties in leaving Omega in Mass Effect 2. [Error: Lore]

19. (L2) "No" to the quarian embassy
- The asari Councilor objects to a quarian embassy "because it implies the existence of an cohesive government", despite the fact that the quarians have a very well-structured government and have had one for centuries. [Error: Lore]

20. (L1)Shella is described as a freelancer Kai Leng hired on Omega who didn’t know his true identity
- She was a full-fledged member of Cerberus and the one who called TIM to report Grayson’s capture. In fact, the entire team was composed of Cerberus operatives. [Error: Lore]

21. (L1)Shella claims more than once she didn’t know Kai Leng was going to kill Liselle
- Kai Leng ordered the entire team to take out the asari if they got the chance before they even went into the apartment. And Deception makes it clear that Shella isn’t just lying to cover up her involvement. [Error: Lore]

22. (L1)TIM doesn’t know who Shella is
- As mentioned above, she was the Cerberus member who was tasked with reporting to TIM that Grayson had been caught. [Error: Lore]

23. (L1)Kai Leng is said to have been in the Alliance Marine Corps
- While he was an Alliance marine, there is no “Alliance Marine Corps”.  It is not a separate service branch. [Error: Lore]

24. (L3) Kai Leng was an “N6” rated soldier in the Alliance
- According to Mass Effect 3 and Retrubution, Leng was actually designated as N7 in the Systems Alliance military (while “N” designates a soldier belonging to Special Forces, “7” is the highest level of proficiency that a soldier can obtain) [Error: Lore]

25. (L2) Anderson thinking that the Citadel trap had been sprung “so successfully” they were still reparing damage  
- The premise of the first game is that Shepard and her or his squad prevented that particular Reaper plan from succeeding. The damage to the Citadel mostly resulted from Sovereign's destruction. [Error: Lore]

26. (L3) A holo of Grayson being implanted depicts large cables attacking him and burrowing into his body and him pleading for death
- In Retribution, he was implanted surgically with Reaper nanotech (which gradually constructed cabling over a long period of time), and was unable to speak at all during the procedure, much less able to beg for mercy.  Additionally, he never spoke to his Cerberus captors after the implantation was complete. [Error: Lore]

27.(L3) Two volus are described as wearing masks that don’t completely cover their faces
- This would result in instant death for a volus, as they must wear completely sealed environmental suits that provide both the ammonia atmosphere and high pressure they require to survive, lest their skin literally split open. The suits also keep them isolated from the oxygen-nitrogen mixture breathed by other species, as it is poisonous to them. [Error: Lore]

28. (L3) Anderson is repeatedly said to be employed by the Council
- He quit in Retribution under rather dramatic circumstances - circumstances that are never properly acknowledged in Deception. [Error: Lore]

29. (L2) Gillian is supposedly only allowed to participate in defending the Idenna because she’s 18 and thus not a minor
-  In Mass Effect 2, Han’Gerrel recalls being a trainee on a gunship with Rael’Zorah whilst still “underage”, and participating in combat on that ship during a batarian raid. He and Rael were subsequently sent off on Pilgrimage early as a result of their actions. In addition, quarians do not determine majority by one’s age, but rather by completion of the Pilgrimage. [Error: Lore]

30. (L2) The quarians transfer the rescued slaves over to the Idenna without any sort of decontamination procedures -  Even after rigorous decontamination (ship and personal) and preparation (via anti-biotics and supplements), quarians still do not remove their suits within the Flotilla's sterile environment barring certain, special circumstances. Boarding a group of former slaves would be unthinkable, especially people who were as filthy as these. [Error: Lore]

31. (L1) The Citadel is said to have a “red ward” and a “blue ward” - These have never been mentioned and don’t fit into the established naming scheme for the wards. [Error: Lore]

32. (L1) The Dark Star is described inaccurately - It is said to be on the 28th floor of a generic skyscraper, and to have an excellent view of the Presidium ring. In addition, it is said to be a quiet place filled with people in formal wear and gaming machines and not the sort of place to find a “working stiff”.  In actuality, it is on the 28th level of Zakera Ward, has no view of the Presidium (though Zakera Ward itself does), is a loud dance club with no gambling and a place where you can talk to blue-collar folk, like the Presidium groundkeeper. [Error: Lore]

33. (L2) Anderson and Kahlee are said to have “joined forces to battle the Spectre named Saren”
- They did not.  At no point did either ever fight against Saren, and Anderson was in fact working with him for a good portion of the book "Revelation".  The closest either got to “battling” him was Anderson attempting to grab him once during an argument over Saren’s ruthless methods.  It didn’t work. [Error: Lore]

34. (L2) The surface of Omega
- At one point Leng is said to have returned to the “surface” of Omega. Omega is a space station built into an asteroid, it has no proper surface. (Cited: “Having been returned to Omega’s surface Leng had elected to visit one of his favorite restaurants rather than return to the safe house.” p.225 Google Preview). Also, at one point there was mention of a door leading to a complex built underneath rocky hills. Due to the already explained structure of Omega, where the actual station hangs from the asteroid above, there is no way something natural like rock could be part of the structure, let alone hills of the mineral.

35. (L1)The Illusive Man’s motivations to turn on Grayson
-  When speaking to the Council Anderson says, “There is evidence that Paul Grayson, the man who invaded the academy and murdered a number of staff members, was a Cerberus operative at one time. Then, for reasons we aren’t sure of, the Illusive Man turned on him." This is illogical, as the “we” refers to him and Kahlee, the latter of whom knew that Grayson turned on the Illusive Man first. [Error: Lore]

36.(L1)Reaper influence on Grayson
- At the Council meeting Anderson says, "It’s difficult to say exactly how much influence the Reapers had over Grayson, but we think it was extensive.” This, despite the fact that the woman who directly spoke to the Reapers through Grayson is standing next to him. [Error: Lore]

37. (L1)Turian saints
- At the auction on Khar’Shan, one of the items bid on are the “tears of a turian saint”. The turian religion has no known saints. [Error: Lore]

38. (L1)Omega’s Eezo
- Deception states that Omega is still a source of eezo, even though the mines have long since been tapped out. “Now, thanks to both the element zero mines and its location deep inside the lawless Terminus systems, Omega served as a tax- free port where pirates, mercenaries, slavers, assassins, and criminals of every race could trade, rest, and enjoy their profits.” [Error: Lore]

39.(L1)Day and night on the Citadel
- Dietz states in Deception that the entire Citadel simulates day and night, while according to the in-game codex, this is only true for the Presidium. [Error: Lore]

40. (L1)Omega has “artificial daylight” cycles
- Similar to the above post on the day/night cycles on the Citadel. However, Omega has never had artificial lights to simulate “daylight” at certain hours of the day in any of its previous appearances in the Mass Effect series. [Error: Lore]

41.  (L2) A man named Leng
- While dying, Nick talks about Kai Leng as if he doesn’t know him - yet Kai Leng had been introduced to the Biotic Underground several times before that and in Retribution Kai Leng manipulated him into getting shot in the stomach (you'd think one would remember that) and Anderson was present for this incident, so he would have told Nick about Leng. [Error: Lore]

42.  (L2) The meaning of the quarian phrase “keelah se’lai”
- According to Deception, the quarian phrase “keelah se’lai” translates out to “As our ancestors will it”, but in Mass Effect 3, Tali’Zorah states that the closest transition of the phrase is actually “By the homeworld I hope to see someday”. (note: while this error may be due to the novel Deception being released before the Mass Effect 3 video game, the fact remains that no one edinever met ting the novel bothered to check directly with BioWare over whether or not Dietz’s translation was accurate to the series planned lore) [Error: Lore]

Deception's Timeline flaws
1. (L1)Hendel is said to have never visited Omega before
- Hendel was on Omega in Ascension for three chapters. [Error: Timeline]

2. (L2)Hendel knows Anderson and knows not only that Anderson and Kahlee are now together, but also where they live on the Citadel
- Hendel had never met Anderson before this book, and Kahlee and Anderson only reunited in Retribution, years after Hendel had left with the Idenna.  Retribution also states that Kahlee has not been in contact with either him or Gillian since the end of Ascension. [Error: Timeline]

3. (L3) Gillian and Nick are 18 years old in Deception
-  They were both twelve-going-on-thirteen in Ascension, set a bit less than three years prior to Deception; in Retribution, which takes place mere months prior to the events of Deception, Nick was just fifteen. [Error: Timeline]

4. (L3) Aria Learns that Cerberus killed her daughter, but continues working for them in Invasion
- Cerberus is able to reach an agreement with Aria in Retribution because they promise information on her daughter's killer.  In the Invasion comic series, which takes place after Deception, Aria continues to work with Cerberus and even allows them access to the Omega 4 Relay. Yet, according to Deception, before this, she discovers that Kai Leng was the one who killed her daughter, and vows never to work with Cerberus again. [Error: Timeline]

5. (L3) Ugho is in charge of the defense against the batarian slavers
-Unlikely, as he died during the Cerberus attack on the Idenna during the events of Mass Effect: Ascension, about a year prior. [Error: Timeline]

6. (L3)Timeline Issues - During the three years since Ascension, both Nick and Gillian have aged six years. In addition, the attack on the Citadel is said to have taken place two years earlier, despite it actually taking place three years earlier. Among other issues. [Error: Timeline]

7. (L2)Gillian received a pendant containing data on Cerberus from her father before leaving Grissom Academy
-  This is a double-edged error: Gillian left the company of Paul Grayson in Ascension.  Deception also makes it so Grayson sent this gift right before Cerberus captured him...which happened over two years after Gillian left the academy. In other words, the pendant must also be capable of time-travel. [Error: Timeline]

Deception's Technology errors.
1. (L1) Quarians referred to as “Gas suckers”
- Their masks only look like gas masks; their actual function is the filtration of air. Whilst this term is probably being used in a derogatory manner, the fact that quarians use enviro-suits hasn’t been used mockingly in the past, making it odd.  A more precise, or possibly wider accepted racial slur would be “buckethead.” [Error: Technology ]

2. (L3) Tantalus Drive Core on a batarian ship (Oh, shoot me)
- Though the Tantalus Drive is referred to as "standard," it was actually a highly secret, experimental drive core first used on the human-turian built SSV Normandy. It’s doubtful that a dated batarian ship would have one. Additionally, such a core is by itself equivalent to the cost of an entire cruiser class ship. [Error: Technology]

3. (L2) Biotics are suddenly classified by their power level
-  There are continual references to people being “Level One”, “Level Two” and “Level Three” biotics, “Three” supposedly being the strongest. There is no such classification scheme, and it appears to result from confusing the implant designations (e.g. L2 and L3)  with an individual’s intrinsic potential. This error is compounded by the fact that, in ME1, it is mentioned that those with L2s can sometimes get better results than those with the newer L3 series, as L2s allow the biotic to "spike higher." [Error: Technology]

4. (L1)Hand Weapons that fire at "relativistic speeds" - For those who do not recognise the term, relativistic speed denotes "close or approaching the speed of light." It is usually used when discussing speeds higher than 10% of C (approx. greater than 29979246 metres/s). Considering that a sand corn fired at such speeds will have the impact of 90 kg TNT, and that the main gun on an Everest class dreadnought only fires at 1.3% of C, one could say that relativistic speeds might be an overestimate. [Error: Technology]

5. (L3) No Kinetic Barriers(?!?!)  (Oh, GOD, COME ON!!)
-In the ME games, as well as previous books, all hardsuits come with kinetic barriers (AKA" shields") that must be broken before the user can be killed by ranged weaponry. In Deception, there is only mention of weapons "chewing through armor" or poor references to biotic barriers on characters wearing hardsuits a là Nick. [Error: Technology]

6. (L1)Character(s?) in Deception use their biotic abilities repeatedly
- In ME canon, use of biotic abilities is described as extremely tiring, requiring an extended rest period after using them multiple times in rapid succession, as well as requiring brief breaks in between each use. [Error: Technology]

7. (L3) Gillian gets new biotic implants in a few hours-long (?) operation in a non-medical facility
- Biotic implants interface directly with the nervous system and the operation to replace them is considered extremely dangerous, to the point that even biotics who have crippling side-effects from their implants are usually unwilling to run the risk of brain damage and other permanent, deleterious effects. [Error: Technology]

8. (L1) Characters use advanced biotic powers with no prior training
 - After getting her “implants” changed Gillian is able to "reave" and biotically “charge”, abilities that before were advanced and mostly exclusive to Shepard.  Hendel creates a gravitational singularity with ease, despite never having that power and being surprised when Gillian herself used it in Ascension. [Error: Technology]

9. (L2) Biotic terminology
- In addition to the other problems related to biotic implants, Dietz consistently confuses the implants with biotic amps - which are wholly different things. [Error: Technology]

10. (L1)Asari Air Kisses (WTF?)
- At one point Gillian and another biotic have an “asari air kiss” (which has never been mentioned in previous works) that causes the air around them to crackle with their biotic power. Nothing has ever suggested that biotic power works this way. [Error: Technology]

11. (L2)Gillian “sensing” that a pair of asari strangers were capable of biotics (This is not Star Wars, and biotics are not the Force)
- Biotic ability cannot be sensed in this way, and as all asari are natural biotics, it is not something she needed to do anyway. [Error: Technology]

12. (L2) Anderson claims Omega has no public newscasts
- Background radio newscasts in Mass Effect 2 begs to differ. [Error: Technology]

13.(L1) Waiting for the slavers
- When the quarians first detect the batarian slavers, they have almost an hour of warning. Rather than immediately jumping into FTL and making themselves undetectable to their enemies, they simply stand and wait for the much more powerful ship to reach them. [Error: Technology]

14. (L1)It is stated that it is “impossible to see anything” in FTL
- This is untrue.  To quote the Codex: “As the subjective speed of light is raised within the field, objects outside will appear to red-shift, eventually becoming visible only to radio telescope antennae. High-energy electromagnetic sources normally hidden to the eye become visible in the high blue spectrum. As the speed of light continues to be raised, x-ray, gamma ray, and eventually cosmic ray sources become visible. Stars will be replaced by pulsars, the accretion discs of black holes, quasars, and gamma ray bursts.” [Error: Technology]

15. (L1)C-Sec Checkpoints
- In Deception, Kai Leng passes through a C-Sec checkpoint by providing a fake ID chip and colored contact lenses to bypass an ocular scanner. However in Mass Effect 2 it is stated, and even experienced by the player, that C-Sec uses a highly advanced DNA detection system which is extremely sensitive and nigh impossible to fool, even with genetic modification. [Error: Technology]

Deception's Character errors
1. (L3) Gillian's autism is never mentioned
- The closest the book gets is noting that she was an “unstable twelve-year-old” and a passing reference to her having a “temper.” This is not presented as a disability, but rather an adolescent phase she has largely "gotten over." [Error: Characters]

2. (L1)Quarian names
- Titling a quarian “Fothar vas Maynar” and referring to him as “Maynar” means that he is being addressed by the name of his ship, not by his own name. This mistake is repeated in the case of several quarians. [Error: Characters]

3. (L1)Friendship of Gillian and Nick
- Gillian interacted with Nick only once (during Ascension), when Nick attempted to bully her. Nick was consequently flung twenty-odd feet into the air and landed onto a table around which Gillian unleashed a powerful singularity. This is hardly the definition of friendship. [Error: Characters]

4. (L1)Gillian knowing about her adoption
- Nothing suggests this in Ascension or even in Retribution. In fact Grayson had strict orders from TIM to pretend to be her real father. He never wavered from this role. [Error: Characters]

5. (L1)Gillian claiming that other children in the Academy tormented her  
-  Nothing suggests this. In fact, they paid her very little notice; the incident with Nick was unique. Gillian even thinks to herself in Ascension that they never even teased her to her face. [Error: Characters]

6. (L2) Aria T'Loak never uses her biotic abilities, nor are they mentioned
- Aria is a very powerful, highly-skilled biotic, but in Deception she never utilises her abilities, and it’s implied she needs her "Level 3 adept" bodyguards to put up barriers and counter biotic attackers. (Bullsh*t!!) [Error: Characters]

7. (L1) Hendel Mitra is described as ogling asari strippers, a very heterosexual reaction
- Hendel was difinitively established as homosexual in Ascension. [Error: Characters]

8. (L1) Quarian's names, continued
- None of the quarians named in Deception have a clan-name, which is akin to a family name or surname (previous examples from Mass Effect video game/s: Tali'Zorah, Han'Gerrel, Daro'Xen, Shala'Raan, et al). [Error: Characters]

9. (L1)Udina not "named" as the Human Council member
- By this time, Udina is the canonical human Council member in the Mass Effect universe, but Dietz refuses to use Udina's name for the human Councillor throughout the entire novel (despite the fact that the character's personality is clearly presented as Udina's, and that there can be no other individual in this role given the events of Retribution and Mass Effect 3). [Error: Characters]

10. (L2) Referring to Aria as “T’Loak” and Kai Leng as “Leng”
- In previous works, these characters are either referenced by first or full name (e.g. "Aria wants to speak to you") but now subordinates simply call Aria "T’Loak." This is not so in Invasion, therefore it cannot simply be new subordinates referring to her by this name. [Error: Characters]

11. (L3) There is no T’Loak family
- Aria attends a funeral for her daughter where she is joined by members of the T’Loak family.  However, "Aria T’Loak" is a pseudonym, as Aria is on the run from old rivals, creditors and the law.  It is extremely unlikely that she would return to Thessia, the asari homeworld, where it would be much easier to track her down. [Error: Characters]

12. (L1) Kai Leng knows who Liselle is
- In Retribution, Liselle’s identity as Aria’s daughter isn't well known, and Kai Leng did not know her name at all. In Deception, Kai Leng knows who she is quite well. [Error: Characters]

13. (L3)Aria does not recognise Kai Leng despite having seen him before
-  In Retribution, Kai facilitates the agreement between TIM and Aria. During this meeting, Aria examines him rather closely, even noting his tattoo work (tattoos which are never once mentioned in Deception). [Error: Character]

14. (L3)Kai Leng enjoys watching an asari dancer, going so far as to wink at her
- Kai Leng was always discribed as xenophobic, and is physically repulsed by aliens. In Retribution, he is completely uninterested in Liselle’s nudity, thinks of asari as “whorish,” and finds the sights of Afterlife disgusting. [Error: Character]

15. (L2) Anderson and Kahlee are said to have started a relationship during Revelation
- They did not. The attraction was acknowledged, and the possibility of a relationship discussed, but, ultimately, it was agreed that it would not work. [Error: Character]

16. (L1)Hendel was given the title “Hendel Vas Idenna” by the quarians for seemingly no reason
-  A quarian’s “ship name” is only earned after he or she has completed the Pilgrimage and has presented a Pilgrimage “gift” to the captain of the ship that he or she wishes to serve on. [Error: Character]

17. (L1)The volus information broker Barla Von is described as one of Anderson’s “close friends”
- In actuality, the two characters have never met in either the video games or the previous novels. Anderson is only vaguely aware of Barla Von’s reputation and rumoured connection to the Shadow Broker in Mass Effect 1. [Error: Character]

Deception's Lore oddities.

1. (L3) TIM's hideout
-  In Retribution, it is written that TIM is hiding on a space station that relocates after each visitor - including high-clearance operatives like Kai Leng. In Deception, TIM resides on a planet, where he remains even after Leng's visit. It is even explicitly referred to as his “home”. [Oddity: Lore]

2. (L1)Lack of security in Afterlife
- In Retribution, Aria uses a hidden backdoor to arrive to and depart from Afterlife without her patrons' knowledge; similarly, she has a series of backrooms for private conversation. In Deception, she drives up to the front entrance in a limo, passing by several enemies who would want to kill her, and takes a call from the Illusive Man in her main lounge. [Oddity: Lore]

3.(L2) Kai Leng's Equipment is Inadequate
- In Retribution, Kai Leng uses a six man commando team to take down a non-biotic Paul Grayson. Later, he goes on to use a state-of-the-art surveillance suite to log Aria's comings and goings - a system that would alert him so that he could use the proper facilities when needed.  Now, he attempts a solo op to take down Gillian, who is known to be a powerful biotic, and uses a sniper rifle to survey the main entrance of Afterlife. This method forces to pee into a vase so as not to miss anything. [Oddity: Lore]

4. (L1)Female salarian mercenary
- A female salarian merc appears at one point during Deception. It is well established that 90% of the salarian population is male, and, being such, females usually stay on their homeworlds as wielders of significant political power. Despite this, her presence in a low-rent Omega merc band is not considered at all remarkable. She’s simply there to be a red shirt in one scene. [Oddity: Lore]

5. (L2)Aria allows Cerberus to keep a base of operations on Omega by the time Invasion occurs, despite finding out that Cerberus was responsible for her daughter’s death
- Aria knows that Kai Leng is a Cerberus agent (see 59), but, in Deception, after learning that he is responsible for her daughter’s murder, she allows Cerberus to continue operations on Omega. (Mass Effect’s head writer Mac Walters previously established that the Deception novel would take place before the Invasion comic series in the ME universe timeline.) [Oddity: Lore]

6.  (L2) Kahlee tells the Council that Grayson “doted on” Gillian
- Grayson rarely saw his adopted daughter, and was the definition of an absentee father. He loved her, but he did not lavish attention on her. [Oddity: Lore]

7. (L1)A salarian is said to have “Big , luminous eyes”
- Salarian eyes do not glow. Nor has there ever been one with eye coloration that would allow this to make sense figuratively. [Oddity: Lore]

8. (L3)Keepers strangely absent
- Despite large parts of the novel being set on the Citadel (including scenes in the lower levels of infrastructure), keepers are neither encountered nor mentioned. In Mass Effect lore, they are an ubiquitous presence on the station. [Oddity: Lore]

9. (L3)Kai Leng goes to the auction to acquire a bio-weapon tuned to TIM’s DNA
- Because TIM is, put mildly, a very private and secretive man whose location and true identity are known to very few, it is unlikely that anyone besides a high-clearance Cerberus operative could manage the means to devise such a weapon. (Although, Miranda Lawson could be a viable canidate, but explination would be needed on means and oppertunity) The book never explains where the weapon came from, and completely drops the subject after the prologue. [Oddity: Lore]

10. (L3)For murdering a krogan on the Citadel, Kai Leng is sentenced to serve at the “brutal prison ‘Misery’”
- The notion that the Systems Alliance would openly support what is essentially a “murder-prison” - a facility with no cells or guards (located off-site, observing the inmates kill each other for amusement), a place where the prisoners engage in a brutal system of Darwinian self-governance (tribes of convicts are constantly fighting and murdering each other in perpetual warfare) severely stretches the suspension of disbelief. That the Alliance would sentence an N7-trained Special Forces officer to such a facility is incredibly ludicrous. [Oddity: Lore]

11. (L1)Watching the sunset
- Anderson and Kahlee watch the sunset on Eden Prime, though as the planet has a 64-hour day, this would last quite some time. [Oddity: Lore]

12. (L2)HMBA amps
- Whilst in "Hu-Town," Gillian has her old implants removed and replaced with implants produced by HMBA. Disregarding that implant removal is in of itself nearly never done, HMBA-produced amps are listed as gear for Citadel Spectres, only available through a licensed requisitions officer. It is unlikely that any vendor in "Hu-Town" (a ghetto) would be selling them. [Oddity: Lore]

13. (L1)Poor Citadel Security
- The security that Kahlee and Anderson go through to visit the Council is incredibly primitive compared to the security required to even get into the wards during Mass Effect 2.

14. (L1)The Grim Skulls
- In Revelation Saren wiped out most of the Grim Skulls mercenary group, while they appear no worse for wear in Deception.

15.(L1) Boxes of ammo
- “Boxes of ammo” are mentioned in Deception- though this could refer to thermal clips.

1. (L1)Caring about Gillian
- The text mentions that “The first emotion Gillian experienced was a deep and abiding sorrow. She was forever cut off from the only person who hadn’t been paid to care about her.” In fact, Gillian was currently on a ship full of people who cared about her without having been paid, including Hendel, who left his life behind to take care of her. [Oddity: Characters]

2. (L1)People Gillian can count on
- Following the previous scene the narrative states that: “Gillian’s sorrow began to morph into anger as she thought about what had been taken from her. The only person other than Hendel that she could count on.” This, despite the fact that she is on a ship full of quarians who agreed to care for her at her most desperate, and whose lives she just saved. [Oddity: Characters]

3. (L1)Kai Leng and salarian curry - At one point Kai Leng eats some salarian curry, which is odd considering that he hates anything and everything to do with aliens. There’s also the fact that curry refers to a variety of South Asian dishes.





Okay, just to point out a few things, rather than address everything on that list(it'd take too long)

1. Drew Karpyshyn described the Citadel as being "star shaped" in Revelation. It's not an error. From a tistance, the five points give off the impression of a star. He also described the Asari as "asexual" in Revelation. Asexual means they don't use sex to reproduce(they meld nervous systems to do that,) it doesn't mean the Asari are incapable OF having sex.

2. Deception takes place TWENTY YEARS after Revelation. That's more than enough time for the Grim Skulls to rebuild. And perhaps Saren, the spectre, is the reason they moved their operation to Omega. Spectres have no power there. You also see Tactus, the Grim Skulls' leader from Deception, in the Refugee camp in ME3.(the guy you make the medicine trade with.)

3. Guy's gotta eat. I doubt Leng would starve before eating alien food, especially when he has an important job to do.

4. Barla Von knew Anderson well enough to commend his actions to Shepard in conversation in ME3. Clearly the two knew each other more than ME1 implied.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 05 janvier 2013 - 06:33 .


#191
silverexile17s

silverexile17s
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Maxster_ wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
Nonsensical headcanon skipped

I have no desire to waste more time on you, it is useless. You'll just fill another theme with your self-contradicting nonsense, just like two previous.


Fancy way of saying that you can't refute anything. If it really was headcannon, you wouldn't be so afarid of putting it up.
Your just a sore loser.
And @Ninja Stan above already warned you that your on the verge of being banned. That says more about you then it does me.

#192
silverexile17s

silverexile17s
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The Grey Nayr wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

knightnblu wrote...

If there is someone looking out for continuity at BioWare they are doing a terrible job of it. Judging by what has been released I doubt that there is control above the dept. level.

I suppose Deception's retcon is good proof of that. They don't seem to closely watch anything that isn't in-game related.
(Brace yourself. This is a long haul)
Deception's Lore flaws/nitpicks:
(Ranking: L1 = minor flaw. L2 = moderate flaw. L3 = Major flaw)

1. (L1)The Citadel is described as being star shaped.
- Whilst the Citadel does have five arms arranged around a ring, even when it is fully opened, the arms are not in the same plane as the central ring; rather, they are oriented straight forward [Error, Lore]

2. (L3) There is a batarian embassy in the Citadel
- Batarians closed their embassy after the Citadel Council sided with the human Systems Alliance during a colonization dispute over the Skyllian Verge, and there is no mention of their embassy being re-established in the previous installments, nor any plans to do so in the future. [Error: Lore]

3. (L1) Kai Leng visits Chora's Den
- Chora's Den was closed after Sovereign’s attack on the Citadel. It never re-opened. [Error: Lore]

4. (L1) Citadel surrounded by stars
- The Citadel is in the middle of a nebula with only one star- Widow - nearby and clearly visible. A few others are only faintly visible through the gas. [Error: Lore]

5. (L3) Kai Leng one-shot kills a krogan by slicing into the back of its neck and severing the spine
- Krogan biology does not work this way. 1) There is a large hump that makes access to the rear of the neck difficult. 2) Most blades (save for a molecular blade) cannot penetrate the thick hide covering the rear of the neck. 3) Even if the spine was severed, the krogan still would not die, as krogan are uniquely equipped with organ redundancy. Instead of an analogue to the human nervous system, they have a second circulatory system with an electrically conductive fluid. [Error: Lore]

6. (L2) Deception claims the asari found the Citadel first and subsequently learnt to use mass effect technology - Obviously wrong.The asari could not have reached the Citadel at all without using mass effect technology. [Error: Lore]

7. (L1) Asari are said to be asexual
- In ME1, Liara describes Asari as mono-gender, all female species. [Error: Lore]

8. (L2) Asari Council member saying "My God"
- Asari do not believe in any form of male god. Their religious mainstream is a pantheistic belief system called "siari," which postulates that all living beings in the universe are of a single essence. The closest analogue to the monotheistic "God" is a faith in the Goddess Athame. The correct exclamation is “By the Goddess”. [Error: Lore]

9. (L3) Kai Leng visits an auction house on the batarian homeworld Khar'Shan
- The batarians live on their homeworld in self-imposed exile. This extreme doctrine of isolationism has led the Hegemony (the batarian government) to ban its citizens from travelling outside batarian space. This travel embargo stems both ways: While batarians cannot legally leave for other territories, Khar'Shan and all its attendant colonies are also closed off to all foreign races - especially humans. And a Cerberus operative being there only raises even more plotholes. (it should also be noted that an asari, a turian, and another human were also present in the batarian auction house, with a volus acting as the auctioneer). [Error: Lore]

10. (L3) Batarian pirates slave-raid on the turian homeworld of Palaven (?!?!?! WTF?! Were the writers even trying?!?!)
- Whilst not impossible, this is incredibly unlikely due to the militaristic nature of turian society: All turians serve fifteen years in the armed forces (starting from age 15), and the turian race possesses one of the largest military fleets in the galaxy. Had there been a raid on Palaven, it would have likely have been met with overwhelming military force. (After all, if the turians were able to keep the Reapers themselves at bay, it's highly unlikely a small group from a minor rouge faction could set foot on Palaven and live) [Error: Lore]

11. (L1)The public is allowed in the Citadel Council chamber
- In the first Mass Effect game, Avina states that very few people are granted access to the Council Chamber. Certainly not the vocal crowds described in Deception. [Error: Lore]

12. (L1)Gillian's visit to Afterlife
- Afterlife is the most popular bar on Omega and people wait hours to get in (Retribution, Mass Effect 2). In Deception, Gillian enters immediately and without any trouble from the bouncers. [Error: Lore]

13. (L2) Quarian clothing
- Quarians wear environmentally sealed suits to protect their weakened immune systems. They do not wear "a motley collection of clothing, held together by a variety of straps and metal fasteners". [Error: Lore]

14. (L3) Batarian Slave Ship released to Gillian and company by quarians
- Quarians view ships as one of their most precious resources, and they would not be so willing to part with a fully functional ship by giving it to Gillian, especially one that has what appears to be a “Tantalus drive core”. [Error: Lore]

15. (L1)Thousands dead every day
- The novel states that thousands die on the Citadel every day, but given the approximate population of 13 million, this is excessive. [Error: Lore]

16. (L2)Beryllium is no longer toxic
- At one point, Gillian finds and carries with her slugs of beryllium with no visible repercussions. This might be reasonable so long as the beryllium stays in slug form. If, however, she is ever exposed to it in powdered form (e.g., it is milled, filed, scraped, scratched, or exploded), it would be extremely toxic. Also worth noting is that even in solid form, beryllium is a skin irritant to many people. In addition, the six kilo belt that Gillian was carrying would take up 3.24 L - a ridiculous size. [Error: Lore]

17. (L1) Beryllium as currency
- It is stated that criminal enterprises are forced to use beryllium (amongst other things) as a form of currency because credits can be tracked. This is in no way stated in any other supplemental material or in the games themselves. All transactions made thus far were done using credits almost exclusively. Whilst it’s certainly possible that beryllium could be a valued commodity, it’s doubtful that there would be any sort of proper exchange rate - and one could always use physical credit chits if one wanted to avoid a paper trail. [Error: Lore]

18. (L3) Quarian ships visit Omega on regular basis and maintain a warehouse
- The Migrant Fleet is forever travelling from system to system because the quarians are still technically at war with the geth. Quarian ships occasionally stop on a planet or hubworld to trade for resources, but they do not maintain permanent outposts or warehouses. In fact, because of the sheer size of the Fleet and its reliance on strip-mining, a sizable amount of quarian resources are acquired as "gifts" given to dissuade them from staying in one area of space for extended periods. In Mass Effect 2, Tali’Zorah mentions that the quarians maintain secure drop zones, but Omega would not be one of these places, as the majority of quarians avoid Omega; and if there were such a dropzone or warehouses on Omega, then Kenn would not have had such difficulties in leaving Omega in Mass Effect 2. [Error: Lore]

19. (L2) "No" to the quarian embassy
- The asari Councilor objects to a quarian embassy "because it implies the existence of an cohesive government", despite the fact that the quarians have a very well-structured government and have had one for centuries. [Error: Lore]

20. (L1)Shella is described as a freelancer Kai Leng hired on Omega who didn’t know his true identity
- She was a full-fledged member of Cerberus and the one who called TIM to report Grayson’s capture. In fact, the entire team was composed of Cerberus operatives. [Error: Lore]

21. (L1)Shella claims more than once she didn’t know Kai Leng was going to kill Liselle
- Kai Leng ordered the entire team to take out the asari if they got the chance before they even went into the apartment. And Deception makes it clear that Shella isn’t just lying to cover up her involvement. [Error: Lore]

22. (L1)TIM doesn’t know who Shella is
- As mentioned above, she was the Cerberus member who was tasked with reporting to TIM that Grayson had been caught. [Error: Lore]

23. (L1)Kai Leng is said to have been in the Alliance Marine Corps
- While he was an Alliance marine, there is no “Alliance Marine Corps”.  It is not a separate service branch. [Error: Lore]

24. (L3) Kai Leng was an “N6” rated soldier in the Alliance
- According to Mass Effect 3 and Retrubution, Leng was actually designated as N7 in the Systems Alliance military (while “N” designates a soldier belonging to Special Forces, “7” is the highest level of proficiency that a soldier can obtain) [Error: Lore]

25. (L2) Anderson thinking that the Citadel trap had been sprung “so successfully” they were still reparing damage  
- The premise of the first game is that Shepard and her or his squad prevented that particular Reaper plan from succeeding. The damage to the Citadel mostly resulted from Sovereign's destruction. [Error: Lore]

26. (L3) A holo of Grayson being implanted depicts large cables attacking him and burrowing into his body and him pleading for death
- In Retribution, he was implanted surgically with Reaper nanotech (which gradually constructed cabling over a long period of time), and was unable to speak at all during the procedure, much less able to beg for mercy.  Additionally, he never spoke to his Cerberus captors after the implantation was complete. [Error: Lore]

27.(L3) Two volus are described as wearing masks that don’t completely cover their faces
- This would result in instant death for a volus, as they must wear completely sealed environmental suits that provide both the ammonia atmosphere and high pressure they require to survive, lest their skin literally split open. The suits also keep them isolated from the oxygen-nitrogen mixture breathed by other species, as it is poisonous to them. [Error: Lore]

28. (L3) Anderson is repeatedly said to be employed by the Council
- He quit in Retribution under rather dramatic circumstances - circumstances that are never properly acknowledged in Deception. [Error: Lore]

29. (L2) Gillian is supposedly only allowed to participate in defending the Idenna because she’s 18 and thus not a minor
-  In Mass Effect 2, Han’Gerrel recalls being a trainee on a gunship with Rael’Zorah whilst still “underage”, and participating in combat on that ship during a batarian raid. He and Rael were subsequently sent off on Pilgrimage early as a result of their actions. In addition, quarians do not determine majority by one’s age, but rather by completion of the Pilgrimage. [Error: Lore]

30. (L2) The quarians transfer the rescued slaves over to the Idenna without any sort of decontamination procedures -  Even after rigorous decontamination (ship and personal) and preparation (via anti-biotics and supplements), quarians still do not remove their suits within the Flotilla's sterile environment barring certain, special circumstances. Boarding a group of former slaves would be unthinkable, especially people who were as filthy as these. [Error: Lore]

31. (L1) The Citadel is said to have a “red ward” and a “blue ward” - These have never been mentioned and don’t fit into the established naming scheme for the wards. [Error: Lore]

32. (L1) The Dark Star is described inaccurately - It is said to be on the 28th floor of a generic skyscraper, and to have an excellent view of the Presidium ring. In addition, it is said to be a quiet place filled with people in formal wear and gaming machines and not the sort of place to find a “working stiff”.  In actuality, it is on the 28th level of Zakera Ward, has no view of the Presidium (though Zakera Ward itself does), is a loud dance club with no gambling and a place where you can talk to blue-collar folk, like the Presidium groundkeeper. [Error: Lore]

33. (L2) Anderson and Kahlee are said to have “joined forces to battle the Spectre named Saren”
- They did not.  At no point did either ever fight against Saren, and Anderson was in fact working with him for a good portion of the book "Revelation".  The closest either got to “battling” him was Anderson attempting to grab him once during an argument over Saren’s ruthless methods.  It didn’t work. [Error: Lore]

34. (L2) The surface of Omega
- At one point Leng is said to have returned to the “surface” of Omega. Omega is a space station built into an asteroid, it has no proper surface. (Cited: “Having been returned to Omega’s surface Leng had elected to visit one of his favorite restaurants rather than return to the safe house.” p.225 Google Preview). Also, at one point there was mention of a door leading to a complex built underneath rocky hills. Due to the already explained structure of Omega, where the actual station hangs from the asteroid above, there is no way something natural like rock could be part of the structure, let alone hills of the mineral.

35. (L1)The Illusive Man’s motivations to turn on Grayson
-  When speaking to the Council Anderson says, “There is evidence that Paul Grayson, the man who invaded the academy and murdered a number of staff members, was a Cerberus operative at one time. Then, for reasons we aren’t sure of, the Illusive Man turned on him." This is illogical, as the “we” refers to him and Kahlee, the latter of whom knew that Grayson turned on the Illusive Man first. [Error: Lore]

36.(L1)Reaper influence on Grayson
- At the Council meeting Anderson says, "It’s difficult to say exactly how much influence the Reapers had over Grayson, but we think it was extensive.” This, despite the fact that the woman who directly spoke to the Reapers through Grayson is standing next to him. [Error: Lore]

37. (L1)Turian saints
- At the auction on Khar’Shan, one of the items bid on are the “tears of a turian saint”. The turian religion has no known saints. [Error: Lore]

38. (L1)Omega’s Eezo
- Deception states that Omega is still a source of eezo, even though the mines have long since been tapped out. “Now, thanks to both the element zero mines and its location deep inside the lawless Terminus systems, Omega served as a tax- free port where pirates, mercenaries, slavers, assassins, and criminals of every race could trade, rest, and enjoy their profits.” [Error: Lore]

39.(L1)Day and night on the Citadel
- Dietz states in Deception that the entire Citadel simulates day and night, while according to the in-game codex, this is only true for the Presidium. [Error: Lore]

40. (L1)Omega has “artificial daylight” cycles
- Similar to the above post on the day/night cycles on the Citadel. However, Omega has never had artificial lights to simulate “daylight” at certain hours of the day in any of its previous appearances in the Mass Effect series. [Error: Lore]

41.  (L2) A man named Leng
- While dying, Nick talks about Kai Leng as if he doesn’t know him - yet Kai Leng had been introduced to the Biotic Underground several times before that and in Retribution Kai Leng manipulated him into getting shot in the stomach (you'd think one would remember that) and Anderson was present for this incident, so he would have told Nick about Leng. [Error: Lore]

42.  (L2) The meaning of the quarian phrase “keelah se’lai”
- According to Deception, the quarian phrase “keelah se’lai” translates out to “As our ancestors will it”, but in Mass Effect 3, Tali’Zorah states that the closest transition of the phrase is actually “By the homeworld I hope to see someday”. (note: while this error may be due to the novel Deception being released before the Mass Effect 3 video game, the fact remains that no one edinever met ting the novel bothered to check directly with BioWare over whether or not Dietz’s translation was accurate to the series planned lore) [Error: Lore]

Deception's Timeline flaws
1. (L1)Hendel is said to have never visited Omega before
- Hendel was on Omega in Ascension for three chapters. [Error: Timeline]

2. (L2)Hendel knows Anderson and knows not only that Anderson and Kahlee are now together, but also where they live on the Citadel
- Hendel had never met Anderson before this book, and Kahlee and Anderson only reunited in Retribution, years after Hendel had left with the Idenna.  Retribution also states that Kahlee has not been in contact with either him or Gillian since the end of Ascension. [Error: Timeline]

3. (L3) Gillian and Nick are 18 years old in Deception
-  They were both twelve-going-on-thirteen in Ascension, set a bit less than three years prior to Deception; in Retribution, which takes place mere months prior to the events of Deception, Nick was just fifteen. [Error: Timeline]

4. (L3) Aria Learns that Cerberus killed her daughter, but continues working for them in Invasion
- Cerberus is able to reach an agreement with Aria in Retribution because they promise information on her daughter's killer.  In the Invasion comic series, which takes place after Deception, Aria continues to work with Cerberus and even allows them access to the Omega 4 Relay. Yet, according to Deception, before this, she discovers that Kai Leng was the one who killed her daughter, and vows never to work with Cerberus again. [Error: Timeline]

5. (L3) Ugho is in charge of the defense against the batarian slavers
-Unlikely, as he died during the Cerberus attack on the Idenna during the events of Mass Effect: Ascension, about a year prior. [Error: Timeline]

6. (L3)Timeline Issues - During the three years since Ascension, both Nick and Gillian have aged six years. In addition, the attack on the Citadel is said to have taken place two years earlier, despite it actually taking place three years earlier. Among other issues. [Error: Timeline]

7. (L2)Gillian received a pendant containing data on Cerberus from her father before leaving Grissom Academy
-  This is a double-edged error: Gillian left the company of Paul Grayson in Ascension.  Deception also makes it so Grayson sent this gift right before Cerberus captured him...which happened over two years after Gillian left the academy. In other words, the pendant must also be capable of time-travel. [Error: Timeline]

Deception's Technology errors.
1. (L1) Quarians referred to as “Gas suckers”
- Their masks only look like gas masks; their actual function is the filtration of air. Whilst this term is probably being used in a derogatory manner, the fact that quarians use enviro-suits hasn’t been used mockingly in the past, making it odd.  A more precise, or possibly wider accepted racial slur would be “buckethead.” [Error: Technology ]

2. (L3) Tantalus Drive Core on a batarian ship (Oh, shoot me)
- Though the Tantalus Drive is referred to as "standard," it was actually a highly secret, experimental drive core first used on the human-turian built SSV Normandy. It’s doubtful that a dated batarian ship would have one. Additionally, such a core is by itself equivalent to the cost of an entire cruiser class ship. [Error: Technology]

3. (L2) Biotics are suddenly classified by their power level
-  There are continual references to people being “Level One”, “Level Two” and “Level Three” biotics, “Three” supposedly being the strongest. There is no such classification scheme, and it appears to result from confusing the implant designations (e.g. L2 and L3)  with an individual’s intrinsic potential. This error is compounded by the fact that, in ME1, it is mentioned that those with L2s can sometimes get better results than those with the newer L3 series, as L2s allow the biotic to "spike higher." [Error: Technology]

4. (L1)Hand Weapons that fire at "relativistic speeds" - For those who do not recognise the term, relativistic speed denotes "close or approaching the speed of light." It is usually used when discussing speeds higher than 10% of C (approx. greater than 29979246 metres/s). Considering that a sand corn fired at such speeds will have the impact of 90 kg TNT, and that the main gun on an Everest class dreadnought only fires at 1.3% of C, one could say that relativistic speeds might be an overestimate. [Error: Technology]

5. (L3) No Kinetic Barriers(?!?!)  (Oh, GOD, COME ON!!)
-In the ME games, as well as previous books, all hardsuits come with kinetic barriers (AKA" shields") that must be broken before the user can be killed by ranged weaponry. In Deception, there is only mention of weapons "chewing through armor" or poor references to biotic barriers on characters wearing hardsuits a là Nick. [Error: Technology]

6. (L1)Character(s?) in Deception use their biotic abilities repeatedly
- In ME canon, use of biotic abilities is described as extremely tiring, requiring an extended rest period after using them multiple times in rapid succession, as well as requiring brief breaks in between each use. [Error: Technology]

7. (L3) Gillian gets new biotic implants in a few hours-long (?) operation in a non-medical facility
- Biotic implants interface directly with the nervous system and the operation to replace them is considered extremely dangerous, to the point that even biotics who have crippling side-effects from their implants are usually unwilling to run the risk of brain damage and other permanent, deleterious effects. [Error: Technology]

8. (L1) Characters use advanced biotic powers with no prior training
 - After getting her “implants” changed Gillian is able to "reave" and biotically “charge”, abilities that before were advanced and mostly exclusive to Shepard.  Hendel creates a gravitational singularity with ease, despite never having that power and being surprised when Gillian herself used it in Ascension. [Error: Technology]

9. (L2) Biotic terminology
- In addition to the other problems related to biotic implants, Dietz consistently confuses the implants with biotic amps - which are wholly different things. [Error: Technology]

10. (L1)Asari Air Kisses (WTF?)
- At one point Gillian and another biotic have an “asari air kiss” (which has never been mentioned in previous works) that causes the air around them to crackle with their biotic power. Nothing has ever suggested that biotic power works this way. [Error: Technology]

11. (L2)Gillian “sensing” that a pair of asari strangers were capable of biotics (This is not Star Wars, and biotics are not the Force)
- Biotic ability cannot be sensed in this way, and as all asari are natural biotics, it is not something she needed to do anyway. [Error: Technology]

12. (L2) Anderson claims Omega has no public newscasts
- Background radio newscasts in Mass Effect 2 begs to differ. [Error: Technology]

13.(L1) Waiting for the slavers
- When the quarians first detect the batarian slavers, they have almost an hour of warning. Rather than immediately jumping into FTL and making themselves undetectable to their enemies, they simply stand and wait for the much more powerful ship to reach them. [Error: Technology]

14. (L1)It is stated that it is “impossible to see anything” in FTL
- This is untrue.  To quote the Codex: “As the subjective speed of light is raised within the field, objects outside will appear to red-shift, eventually becoming visible only to radio telescope antennae. High-energy electromagnetic sources normally hidden to the eye become visible in the high blue spectrum. As the speed of light continues to be raised, x-ray, gamma ray, and eventually cosmic ray sources become visible. Stars will be replaced by pulsars, the accretion discs of black holes, quasars, and gamma ray bursts.” [Error: Technology]

15. (L1)C-Sec Checkpoints
- In Deception, Kai Leng passes through a C-Sec checkpoint by providing a fake ID chip and colored contact lenses to bypass an ocular scanner. However in Mass Effect 2 it is stated, and even experienced by the player, that C-Sec uses a highly advanced DNA detection system which is extremely sensitive and nigh impossible to fool, even with genetic modification. [Error: Technology]

Deception's Character errors
1. (L3) Gillian's autism is never mentioned
- The closest the book gets is noting that she was an “unstable twelve-year-old” and a passing reference to her having a “temper.” This is not presented as a disability, but rather an adolescent phase she has largely "gotten over." [Error: Characters]

2. (L1)Quarian names
- Titling a quarian “Fothar vas Maynar” and referring to him as “Maynar” means that he is being addressed by the name of his ship, not by his own name. This mistake is repeated in the case of several quarians. [Error: Characters]

3. (L1)Friendship of Gillian and Nick
- Gillian interacted with Nick only once (during Ascension), when Nick attempted to bully her. Nick was consequently flung twenty-odd feet into the air and landed onto a table around which Gillian unleashed a powerful singularity. This is hardly the definition of friendship. [Error: Characters]

4. (L1)Gillian knowing about her adoption
- Nothing suggests this in Ascension or even in Retribution. In fact Grayson had strict orders from TIM to pretend to be her real father. He never wavered from this role. [Error: Characters]

5. (L1)Gillian claiming that other children in the Academy tormented her  
-  Nothing suggests this. In fact, they paid her very little notice; the incident with Nick was unique. Gillian even thinks to herself in Ascension that they never even teased her to her face. [Error: Characters]

6. (L2) Aria T'Loak never uses her biotic abilities, nor are they mentioned
- Aria is a very powerful, highly-skilled biotic, but in Deception she never utilises her abilities, and it’s implied she needs her "Level 3 adept" bodyguards to put up barriers and counter biotic attackers. (Bullsh*t!!) [Error: Characters]

7. (L1) Hendel Mitra is described as ogling asari strippers, a very heterosexual reaction
- Hendel was difinitively established as homosexual in Ascension. [Error: Characters]

8. (L1) Quarian's names, continued
- None of the quarians named in Deception have a clan-name, which is akin to a family name or surname (previous examples from Mass Effect video game/s: Tali'Zorah, Han'Gerrel, Daro'Xen, Shala'Raan, et al). [Error: Characters]

9. (L1)Udina not "named" as the Human Council member
- By this time, Udina is the canonical human Council member in the Mass Effect universe, but Dietz refuses to use Udina's name for the human Councillor throughout the entire novel (despite the fact that the character's personality is clearly presented as Udina's, and that there can be no other individual in this role given the events of Retribution and Mass Effect 3). [Error: Characters]

10. (L2) Referring to Aria as “T’Loak” and Kai Leng as “Leng”
- In previous works, these characters are either referenced by first or full name (e.g. "Aria wants to speak to you") but now subordinates simply call Aria "T’Loak." This is not so in Invasion, therefore it cannot simply be new subordinates referring to her by this name. [Error: Characters]

11. (L3) There is no T’Loak family
- Aria attends a funeral for her daughter where she is joined by members of the T’Loak family.  However, "Aria T’Loak" is a pseudonym, as Aria is on the run from old rivals, creditors and the law.  It is extremely unlikely that she would return to Thessia, the asari homeworld, where it would be much easier to track her down. [Error: Characters]

12. (L1) Kai Leng knows who Liselle is
- In Retribution, Liselle’s identity as Aria’s daughter isn't well known, and Kai Leng did not know her name at all. In Deception, Kai Leng knows who she is quite well. [Error: Characters]

13. (L3)Aria does not recognise Kai Leng despite having seen him before
-  In Retribution, Kai facilitates the agreement between TIM and Aria. During this meeting, Aria examines him rather closely, even noting his tattoo work (tattoos which are never once mentioned in Deception). [Error: Character]

14. (L3)Kai Leng enjoys watching an asari dancer, going so far as to wink at her
- Kai Leng was always discribed as xenophobic, and is physically repulsed by aliens. In Retribution, he is completely uninterested in Liselle’s nudity, thinks of asari as “whorish,” and finds the sights of Afterlife disgusting. [Error: Character]

15. (L2) Anderson and Kahlee are said to have started a relationship during Revelation
- They did not. The attraction was acknowledged, and the possibility of a relationship discussed, but, ultimately, it was agreed that it would not work. [Error: Character]

16. (L1)Hendel was given the title “Hendel Vas Idenna” by the quarians for seemingly no reason
-  A quarian’s “ship name” is only earned after he or she has completed the Pilgrimage and has presented a Pilgrimage “gift” to the captain of the ship that he or she wishes to serve on. [Error: Character]

17. (L1)The volus information broker Barla Von is described as one of Anderson’s “close friends”
- In actuality, the two characters have never met in either the video games or the previous novels. Anderson is only vaguely aware of Barla Von’s reputation and rumoured connection to the Shadow Broker in Mass Effect 1. [Error: Character]

Deception's Lore oddities.

1. (L3) TIM's hideout
-  In Retribution, it is written that TIM is hiding on a space station that relocates after each visitor - including high-clearance operatives like Kai Leng. In Deception, TIM resides on a planet, where he remains even after Leng's visit. It is even explicitly referred to as his “home”. [Oddity: Lore]

2. (L1)Lack of security in Afterlife
- In Retribution, Aria uses a hidden backdoor to arrive to and depart from Afterlife without her patrons' knowledge; similarly, she has a series of backrooms for private conversation. In Deception, she drives up to the front entrance in a limo, passing by several enemies who would want to kill her, and takes a call from the Illusive Man in her main lounge. [Oddity: Lore]

3.(L2) Kai Leng's Equipment is Inadequate
- In Retribution, Kai Leng uses a six man commando team to take down a non-biotic Paul Grayson. Later, he goes on to use a state-of-the-art surveillance suite to log Aria's comings and goings - a system that would alert him so that he could use the proper facilities when needed.  Now, he attempts a solo op to take down Gillian, who is known to be a powerful biotic, and uses a sniper rifle to survey the main entrance of Afterlife. This method forces to pee into a vase so as not to miss anything. [Oddity: Lore]

4. (L1)Female salarian mercenary
- A female salarian merc appears at one point during Deception. It is well established that 90% of the salarian population is male, and, being such, females usually stay on their homeworlds as wielders of significant political power. Despite this, her presence in a low-rent Omega merc band is not considered at all remarkable. She’s simply there to be a red shirt in one scene. [Oddity: Lore]

5. (L2)Aria allows Cerberus to keep a base of operations on Omega by the time Invasion occurs, despite finding out that Cerberus was responsible for her daughter’s death
- Aria knows that Kai Leng is a Cerberus agent (see 59), but, in Deception, after learning that he is responsible for her daughter’s murder, she allows Cerberus to continue operations on Omega. (Mass Effect’s head writer Mac Walters previously established that the Deception novel would take place before the Invasion comic series in the ME universe timeline.) [Oddity: Lore]

6.  (L2) Kahlee tells the Council that Grayson “doted on” Gillian
- Grayson rarely saw his adopted daughter, and was the definition of an absentee father. He loved her, but he did not lavish attention on her. [Oddity: Lore]

7. (L1)A salarian is said to have “Big , luminous eyes”
- Salarian eyes do not glow. Nor has there ever been one with eye coloration that would allow this to make sense figuratively. [Oddity: Lore]

8. (L3)Keepers strangely absent
- Despite large parts of the novel being set on the Citadel (including scenes in the lower levels of infrastructure), keepers are neither encountered nor mentioned. In Mass Effect lore, they are an ubiquitous presence on the station. [Oddity: Lore]

9. (L3)Kai Leng goes to the auction to acquire a bio-weapon tuned to TIM’s DNA
- Because TIM is, put mildly, a very private and secretive man whose location and true identity are known to very few, it is unlikely that anyone besides a high-clearance Cerberus operative could manage the means to devise such a weapon. (Although, Miranda Lawson could be a viable canidate, but explination would be needed on means and oppertunity) The book never explains where the weapon came from, and completely drops the subject after the prologue. [Oddity: Lore]

10. (L3)For murdering a krogan on the Citadel, Kai Leng is sentenced to serve at the “brutal prison ‘Misery’”
- The notion that the Systems Alliance would openly support what is essentially a “murder-prison” - a facility with no cells or guards (located off-site, observing the inmates kill each other for amusement), a place where the prisoners engage in a brutal system of Darwinian self-governance (tribes of convicts are constantly fighting and murdering each other in perpetual warfare) severely stretches the suspension of disbelief. That the Alliance would sentence an N7-trained Special Forces officer to such a facility is incredibly ludicrous. [Oddity: Lore]

11. (L1)Watching the sunset
- Anderson and Kahlee watch the sunset on Eden Prime, though as the planet has a 64-hour day, this would last quite some time. [Oddity: Lore]

12. (L2)HMBA amps
- Whilst in "Hu-Town," Gillian has her old implants removed and replaced with implants produced by HMBA. Disregarding that implant removal is in of itself nearly never done, HMBA-produced amps are listed as gear for Citadel Spectres, only available through a licensed requisitions officer. It is unlikely that any vendor in "Hu-Town" (a ghetto) would be selling them. [Oddity: Lore]

13. (L1)Poor Citadel Security
- The security that Kahlee and Anderson go through to visit the Council is incredibly primitive compared to the security required to even get into the wards during Mass Effect 2.

14. (L1)The Grim Skulls
- In Revelation Saren wiped out most of the Grim Skulls mercenary group, while they appear no worse for wear in Deception.

15.(L1) Boxes of ammo
- “Boxes of ammo” are mentioned in Deception- though this could refer to thermal clips.

1. (L1)Caring about Gillian
- The text mentions that “The first emotion Gillian experienced was a deep and abiding sorrow. She was forever cut off from the only person who hadn’t been paid to care about her.” In fact, Gillian was currently on a ship full of people who cared about her without having been paid, including Hendel, who left his life behind to take care of her. [Oddity: Characters]

2. (L1)People Gillian can count on
- Following the previous scene the narrative states that: “Gillian’s sorrow began to morph into anger as she thought about what had been taken from her. The only person other than Hendel that she could count on.” This, despite the fact that she is on a ship full of quarians who agreed to care for her at her most desperate, and whose lives she just saved. [Oddity: Characters]

3. (L1)Kai Leng and salarian curry - At one point Kai Leng eats some salarian curry, which is odd considering that he hates anything and everything to do with aliens. There’s also the fact that curry refers to a variety of South Asian dishes.





Okay, just to point out a few things, rather than address everything on that list(it'd take too long)

1. Drew Karpyshyn described the Citadel as being "star shaped" in Revelation. It's not an error. From a tistance, the five points give off the impression of a star. He also described the Asari as "asexual" in Revelation. Asexual means they don't use sex to reproduce(they meld nervous systems to do that,) it doesn't mean the Asari are incapable OF having sex.

2. Deception takes place TWENTY YEARS after Revelation. That's more than enough time for the Grim Skulls to rebuild. And perhaps Saren, the spectre, is the reason they moved their operation to Omega. Spectres have no power there. You also see Tactus, the Grim Skulls' leader from Deception, in the Refugee camp in ME3.(the guy you make the medicine trade with.)

3. Guy's gotta eat. I doubt Leng would starve before eating alien food, especially when he has an important job to do.

4. Barla Von knew Anderson well enough to commend his actions to Shepard in conversation in ME3. Clearly the two knew each other more than ME1 implied.


1. Still differs from in-game information.

2. No prior introduction, or re-introduction of the Gray Skulls is given. And since Saren wiped them out quite throughlly, there wouldn't be much to rebuild from at all.

3. This is the person that is disgusted by the naked asari body. I'm pretty sure starvation or salarian curry is a choice he'd make.

4. Then explain on that before-hand. Don't just throw it out there without any evidence of this happening before.

This is where I got the information on the flaws:
https://docs.google....?pli=1&sle=true

You can't ignore all the flaws in the lore. Especally things like a slave-raid of Palaven, Batarians having an embassy and allowing humans on their homeworld, and the Illusive Man's base being on a planet, among other things.
These are ALL confirmed flaws, reconized by the writers themselves, and confirmed to being retconned right now. Justifing them now is pointless.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 05 janvier 2013 - 08:15 .


#193
silverexile17s

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Grubas wrote...

Keep in mind that Deception is canon.
Bioware expects you to headcanon the differences away, because they can't explain you every little thing, e.g.: take you by the hand.

Wouldn't it be funny, if bioware released Extended Cut of Deception, to validate all the errors, because of artistic integrity?

You know, because of the vocal minority of haters... 

And Seival and Brovvik would come up and defend the beauty of Deception...  

Actually, it's NOT cannon anymore. They pulled Deception, and have currently retconed the books events, and having the book re-written to to fix the lore.

#194
Maxster_

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silverexile17s wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
Nonsensical headcanon skipped

I have no desire to waste more time on you, it is useless. You'll just fill another theme with your self-contradicting nonsense, just like two previous.


Gibberish skipped.

As i said, there is no point to waste time on your gibberish. While i'm refuting one of your so-called "points"(mostly sefl-contradicting, or me lore-contradicting nonsense), you'll just make up 10 more.
Waste of time.

#195
silverexile17s

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Maxster_ wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
Nonsensical headcanon skipped

I have no desire to waste more time on you, it is useless. You'll just fill another theme with your self-contradicting nonsense, just like two previous.


Gibberish skipped.

As i said, there is no point to waste time on your gibberish. While i'm refuting one of your so-called "points"(mostly sefl-contradicting, or me lore-contradicting nonsense), you'll just make up 10 more.
Waste of time.

Ha,Ha,Ha.
Still afraid to post it?
Look above. I actually posted refrences that proved my point in those debates. What refrence did you ever post to prove any of your claims?
Nothing. Zip, zero, nada.

Saying it's headcannon, yet giving nothing that proves it so, while not even bothering to show the supposed headcannon, for fear of being proven wrong, is ridiculous, bordering on pathatic. We both know the reason you keep failing to post the comment is because you have no counter. It's your headcannon.
Your just doing this for the sake of having the last word. You don't even care about the topic. I really doubt you ever did. This is just about trolling BioWare for you.

Since you obviously cannot contribute anything to this topic, it would be best if you leave.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 05 janvier 2013 - 08:27 .


#196
Iakus

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silverexile17s wrote...

Grubas wrote...

Keep in mind that Deception is canon.
Bioware expects you to headcanon the differences away, because they can't explain you every little thing, e.g.: take you by the hand.

Wouldn't it be funny, if bioware released Extended Cut of Deception, to validate all the errors, because of artistic integrity?

You know, because of the vocal minority of haters... 

And Seival and Brovvik would come up and defend the beauty of Deception...  

Actually, it's NOT cannon anymore. They pulled Deception, and have currently retconed the books events, and having the book re-written to to fix the lore.



Ah, no offense, but it's been like a year now.  How long do these revisions need to take?

#197
Priss Blackburne

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iakus wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Grubas wrote...

Keep in mind that Deception is canon.
Bioware expects you to headcanon the differences away, because they can't explain you every little thing, e.g.: take you by the hand.

Wouldn't it be funny, if bioware released Extended Cut of Deception, to validate all the errors, because of artistic integrity?

You know, because of the vocal minority of haters... 

And Seival and Brovvik would come up and defend the beauty of Deception...  

Actually, it's NOT cannon anymore. They pulled Deception, and have currently retconed the books events, and having the book re-written to to fix the lore.



Ah, no offense, but it's been like a year now.  How long do these revisions need to take?


Think last news we had was Priestly saying "talk to the publisher" about what is happening with Deception. does not sound good to me that we will see it happen now if Bioware isn't even keeping tabs of it. A better response would have been a progress of how far they where along in the revision last time them talked.

 It sounds like Shifting blame 101.

And Dietz I'm guessing isn't involved in the rewrite since he just released a new book in December.

Modifié par Priss Blackburne, 05 janvier 2013 - 08:37 .


#198
Maxster_

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silverexile17s wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
Nonsensical headcanon skipped

I have no desire to waste more time on you, it is useless. You'll just fill another theme with your self-contradicting nonsense, just like two previous.


Gibberish skipped.

As i said, there is no point to waste time on your gibberish. While i'm refuting one of your so-called "points"(mostly sefl-contradicting, or me lore-contradicting nonsense), you'll just make up 10 more.
Waste of time.

Ha,Ha,Ha.
Still afraid to post it?
Look above. I actually posted refrences that proved my point in those debates. What refrence did you ever post to prove any of your claims?
Nothing. Zip, zero, nada.

This is, of course, lie.
You were just posting your headcanon, which contradicts ME lore.
Or plain nonsense.

Since you obviously cannot contribute anything to this topic, it would be best if you leave.

I'd rather give that quote back. It is enough nonsense and gibberish on BSN, you don't need to add more.

#199
Ninja Stan

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Bans have been imposed. Let us not continue this childish bickering.

#200
Grubas

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silverexile17s wrote...

Grubas wrote...

Keep in mind that Deception is canon.
Bioware expects you to headcanon the differences away, because they can't explain you every little thing, e.g.: take you by the hand.

Wouldn't it be funny, if bioware released Extended Cut of Deception, to validate all the errors, because of artistic integrity?

You know, because of the vocal minority of haters... 

And Seival and Brovvik would come up and defend the beauty of Deception...  

Actually, it's NOT cannon anymore. They pulled Deception, and have currently retconed the books events, and having the book re-written to to fix the lore.


Will they also fix the audiobook?