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[dragonflight288]

DPSSOC wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
If Hawke "takes the blame" paraphrase, he's really blaming Merrill in the actual dialogue, and that didn't make any sense to me. Keeper Marethari chose to release Audacity from its prison, she didn't warn anyone until long after she released the demon, she didn't caution her clan to leave Sundermount for their own safety, and she didn't have anyone nearby to kill her once the demon possessed her. Why should I blame Merrill?

Technically if Merrill hadn't insisted on fixing the mirror Marethari never would have had reason to release Audacity.  Depends how far back you want to go on the blame train.  A caused B leading to C and finally D, one could argue that A, B, or C were to blame for D.

And then no one would ever be held accountable for their own actions. The actions of the Dalish clan throughout the three acts are interconnected, but I like to think of it from this perspective.

Tamlen and the Dalish Warden are infected with the blight because the eluvian was originally tainted by it. As such, the mirror was considered dangerous. Merrill took a small shard and used blood magic to cleanse it of the taint, and then proceeded to study lore on the eluvians and extrapolated information from the shard, and the fact that she has it for years without ever getting infected or infecting anyone in the alienage is proof that she was successful in removing the blight, as such, the reasons it was feared were no longer valid.

Merethari believed the mirror itself cost them two of their hunters, and refused to even look at any lore, and said their ancestors wanted the mirror buried away (which is a kind of convenient excuse for someone who fears the object but refuses to study it and its history.)

Players may or may not trust Merrill is wise enough to handle it (my belief is she's the most qualified in all of Thedas) but Merrill never once drove Merethari to the demon. Merrill technically wasn't part of their clan anymore as she left voluntarily. She lived in the city, far from Merethari and the others. Merethari released the demon of her own volition. Merrill never drove her to it.

That is simply my opinion. And the Dalish are a bunch of blood-thirsty self-righteous bigots who merely wanted a scapegoat.

[MisterJB]

dragonflight288 wrote...
(my belief is she's the most qualified in all of Thedas)

Morrigan got one working.
My virtual girlfriend is smarter than yours, nananana.

Modifié par MisterJB, 21 janvier 2013 - 01:26 .

[dragonflight288]

MisterJB wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
(my belief is she's the most qualified in all of Thedas)

Morrigan got one working.
My virtual girlfriend is smarter than yours, nananana.

Morrigan got one working. Merrill built one from scratch.

And darn, your virtual girlfriend beat mine. Oh the agony!

[MisterJB]

Not from scratch. She had pieces of it lying around and just glued them together. And it didn't work.

Suffer in shame.

[LobselVith8]

DPSSOC wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

If Hawke "takes the blame" paraphrase, he's really blaming Merrill in the actual dialogue, and that didn't make any sense to me. Keeper Marethari chose to release Audacity from its prison, she didn't warn anyone until long after she released the demon, she didn't caution her clan to leave Sundermount for their own safety, and she didn't have anyone nearby to kill her once the demon possessed her. Why should I blame Merrill?

Technically if Merrill hadn't insisted on fixing the mirror Marethari never would have had reason to release Audacity.  Depends how far back you want to go on the blame train.  A caused B leading to C and finally D, one could argue that A, B, or C were to blame for D.

No matter how far back you go, it's still a matter of Marethari releasing Audacity without warning the plan or having anyone nearby to deal with her in case she couldn't properly trap Audacity inside her, and endangering Merrill anyway by attacking her when she came to Sundermount to speak with a trapped Audacity.

Speaking of Morrigan, I have to imagine she isn't too pleased with Hawke letting Flemeth loose on the world.

[TEWR]

MisterJB wrote...

Not from scratch. She had pieces of it lying around and just glued them together. And it didn't work.

One piece that she took from the ruins, cleansed it of the Taint, and used what lore she had available and what lore she could find to build an entirely new one from scratch -- Word of God.

And the level of knowledge on Eluvians goes like this:

Morrigan = Merrill who are both better then Finn, but Finn's not far behind those two.

Though technically speaking, Merrill is the most qualified in Thedas as Morrigan is no longer in Thedas. She went beyond Thedas and beyond the Fade.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 22 janvier 2013 - 05:44 .

[DPSSOC]

LobselVith8 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
If Hawke "takes the blame" paraphrase, he's really blaming Merrill in the actual dialogue, and that didn't make any sense to me. Keeper Marethari chose to release Audacity from its prison, she didn't warn anyone until long after she released the demon, she didn't caution her clan to leave Sundermount for their own safety, and she didn't have anyone nearby to kill her once the demon possessed her. Why should I blame Merrill?

Technically if Merrill hadn't insisted on fixing the mirror Marethari never would have had reason to release Audacity.  Depends how far back you want to go on the blame train.  A caused B leading to C and finally D, one could argue that A, B, or C were to blame for D.

No matter how far back you go, it's still a matter of Marethari releasing Audacity without warning the plan or having anyone nearby to deal with her in case she couldn't properly trap Audacity inside her, and endangering Merrill anyway by attacking her when she came to Sundermount to speak with a trapped Audacity.

Which she wouldn't have done if Merrill hadn't been working on the mirror.  Let's hop aboard the Blame Train shall we.

Merrill and Hawke kill the clan (their fault) -> They wouldn't have had to if the clan hadn't attacked them (Clan's fault) -> The Clan wouldn't have attacked them if they hadn't killed Marethari (their fault) -> They wouldn't have killed Marethari if she hadn't become possessed (Marethari's fault) -> Marethari wouldn't have become possessed if Merrill had just left the mirror alone (Merril's fault) -> Merrill wouldn't have been working on the Mirror if Mahariel and Tamlen hadn't found it (Warden's fault).

Italics - Where you are
Bold - What I'm saying
Underline - Where it can still go

[dragonflight288]

DPSSOC wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
If Hawke "takes the blame" paraphrase, he's really blaming Merrill in the actual dialogue, and that didn't make any sense to me. Keeper Marethari chose to release Audacity from its prison, she didn't warn anyone until long after she released the demon, she didn't caution her clan to leave Sundermount for their own safety, and she didn't have anyone nearby to kill her once the demon possessed her. Why should I blame Merrill?

Technically if Merrill hadn't insisted on fixing the mirror Marethari never would have had reason to release Audacity.  Depends how far back you want to go on the blame train.  A caused B leading to C and finally D, one could argue that A, B, or C were to blame for D.

No matter how far back you go, it's still a matter of Marethari releasing Audacity without warning the plan or having anyone nearby to deal with her in case she couldn't properly trap Audacity inside her, and endangering Merrill anyway by attacking her when she came to Sundermount to speak with a trapped Audacity.

Which she wouldn't have done if Merrill hadn't been working on the mirror.  Let's hop aboard the Blame Train shall we.

Merrill and Hawke kill the clan (their fault) -> They wouldn't have had to if the clan hadn't attacked them (Clan's fault) -> The Clan wouldn't have attacked them if they hadn't killed Marethari (their fault) -> They wouldn't have killed Marethari if she hadn't become possessed (Marethari's fault) -> Marethari wouldn't have become possessed if Merrill had just left the mirror alone (Merril's fault) -> Merrill wouldn't have been working on the Mirror if Mahariel and Tamlen hadn't found it (Warden's fault).

Italics - Where you are
Bold - What I'm saying
Underline - Where it can still go

Can't we just say that everyone is responsible for their own actions.

We can say Merethari wouldn't have gone to the demon if Merrill didn't have the mirror, but is that really the case? The short story that takes place before the game makes it clear that Merethari and Merrill knew there was a demon and it was trying to influence them ever since they arrived. That short story also makes it clear that the closer it got, the powerful the promptings became.

Merrill left Sundermount entirely and wasn't susceptible to the demon. Merethari remained on Sundermount and was therefore under the demons influence for 7 years before releasing it. Merethari made her own choice, and left her own clan completely out of it. And the clan never listened to reason to begin with.

But they do have their moments.

Hawke: I must have left my pointy-ears and self-righteousness at home.
Hunter: You.....Shemlan!

[MisterJB]

dragonflight288 wrote...
Hawke: I must have left my pointy-ears and self-righteousness at home.
Hunter: You.....Shemlan!

Oh yes, I love that.
That should put the "Is shemlen a racial slur" dicussion to rest, no?

Modifié par MisterJB, 22 janvier 2013 - 03:27 .

[DPSSOC]

dragonflight288 wrote...
Can't we just say that everyone is responsible for their own actions.

Certainly, Lobsel had simply expressed confusion as to how the situation could have been viewed as Merrill's fault and I was illustrating how applying a broader perspective to the situation could support such a viewpoint.  I then attempted to show the flaw in this approach by expanding it to the Dalish Warden.  Take a broad enough view and you can pretty much blame anyone for anything.

[LobselVith8]

DPSSOC wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Can't we just say that everyone is responsible for their own actions.

Certainly, Lobsel had simply expressed confusion as to how the situation could have been viewed as Merrill's fault and I was illustrating how applying a broader perspective to the situation could support such a viewpoint.

No, I expressed that it was ridiculous to blame Merrill for the actions of Marethari.

DPSSOC wrote...

I then attempted to show the flaw in this approach by expanding it to the Dalish Warden.  Take a broad enough view and you can pretty much blame anyone for anything.

The flaw in how some people, including me, have pointed out that Marethari is responsble for her own actions?

[DPSSOC]

LobselVith8 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
Can't we just say that everyone is responsible for their own actions.

Certainly, Lobsel had simply expressed confusion as to how the situation could have been viewed as Merrill's fault and I was illustrating how applying a broader perspective to the situation could support such a viewpoint.

No, I expressed that it was ridiculous to blame Merrill for the actions of Marethari.

But Merril's actions lead to Marethari's.  Marethari made a choice, not arguing that, and she has to own that choice, but Merril forced her to make that choice through her actions.  That was my point that it isn't ridiculous to blame Merril if you broaden your scope and look further down the causal chain.

LobselVith8 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
I then attempted to show the flaw in this approach by expanding it to the Dalish Warden.  Take a broad enough view and you can pretty much blame anyone for anything.

The flaw in how some people, including me, have pointed out that Marethari is responsble for her own actions?

No the flaw in reassigning blame by broadening the scope of consideration, because as I said if you take a broad enough view you can blame anything on anybody.  I made the argument that the events could be seen as Merril's fault if you take a broader look at it, but then attempted to point out (unsuccessfully apparently) that such reasoning is flawed.

[IanPolaris]

DPSSOC wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
Can't we just say that everyone is responsible for their own actions.

Certainly, Lobsel had simply expressed confusion as to how the situation could have been viewed as Merrill's fault and I was illustrating how applying a broader perspective to the situation could support such a viewpoint.

No, I expressed that it was ridiculous to blame Merrill for the actions of Marethari.

But Merril's actions lead to Marethari's.  Marethari made a choice, not arguing that, and she has to own that choice, but Merril forced her to make that choice through her actions.  That was my point that it isn't ridiculous to blame Merril if you broaden your scope and look further down the causal chain.

That is absolutely untrue.  Audacity may have influenced Meretheri to believe that, but it is completely false.  The clan could have (and indeed should have) moved at any time after Hawke arrived to finish Flemeth's deal.  Indeed it was Meretheri that was keeping the clan there and no one else.  Everyone else wanted them to leave including Merrill.

The point is that you can not blame someone for a choice that someone else makes.  It was Meretheri's choice to become an abomination.  Period.  End. Of. Discussion.  The choice was always entirely hers.  Merrill is not responsible for the mistakes of others.  That applies to anyone.  A person is never responsible for the free choice someone else makes.  Honestly protraying Merrill as a ditz when she has far and away the most reasonable and mature outlook on magic in the whole game is IMHO yet another Bioware attempt to get you to side against mages.

LobselVith8 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
I then attempted to show the flaw in this approach by expanding it to the Dalish Warden.  Take a broad enough view and you can pretty much blame anyone for anything.

The flaw in how some people, including me, have pointed out that Marethari is responsble for her own actions?

No the flaw in reassigning blame by broadening the scope of consideration, because as I said if you take a broad enough view you can blame anything on anybody.  I made the argument that the events could be seen as Merril's fault if you take a broader look at it, but then attempted to point out (unsuccessfully apparently) that such reasoning is flawed.

You moral reasoning is invalid.  A person's moral responsibility ENDS when someone else makes a moral choice.  Otherwise youi walk down the line of "guilt by association" and other dark aspects and that isn't good.  The bottom line is that Merrill is responsible for her choices and Merethari is responsible for hers.  Merrill is NOT TO BLAME for Meretheri becoming an abomination.  The Keeper could (and should) have walked away.  The sole person to blame for not doing that is Meretheri.  Otherwise you allow guilt by association and that makes everyone guilty (which ulimately abrogates all moral responsibliity because if everyone is guilty for all moral choices of everyone else then ultimately no one is guilty).

-Polaris

[DPSSOC]

Ok I'm going to make this as clear as possible, I agree with you. My entire point is, and always has been, that you can blame Merrill for what happened if you take a broader view of the situation and make the argument that had Merrill not insisted on working on the mirror she wouldn't have been forced to leave the clan, meaning Marethari wouldn't have kept the clan at Sundermount, meaning Marethari wouldn't have become an abomination.  Which is true.

However that reasoning is ultimately flawed because you can just keep broadening your view to the point you can blame anyone for anything.

Modifié par DPSSOC, 29 janvier 2013 - 10:54 .

[TEWR]

Essentially, while you can blame her, you really shouldn't because you're ultimately wrong. It's something a person can do when they look at the entire situation, but that doesn't make them correct in their belief. It's them employing a logical fallacy, I think. 

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 29 janvier 2013 - 12:09 .

[WhiteKnyght]

DPSSOC wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
If Hawke "takes the blame" paraphrase, he's really blaming Merrill in the actual dialogue, and that didn't make any sense to me. Keeper Marethari chose to release Audacity from its prison, she didn't warn anyone until long after she released the demon, she didn't caution her clan to leave Sundermount for their own safety, and she didn't have anyone nearby to kill her once the demon possessed her. Why should I blame Merrill?

Technically if Merrill hadn't insisted on fixing the mirror Marethari never would have had reason to release Audacity.  Depends how far back you want to go on the blame train.  A caused B leading to C and finally D, one could argue that A, B, or C were to blame for D.

Marethari brought it on her self.

She's a pot who called the kettle black(she used blood magic to cleanse Mahariel's blood to treat his/her taint infection) then faulted Merrill for doing the same.(Dalish don't have the same stigma for blood magic as Andrasteans, it's just another tool, albeit a dangerous one)

She ruined Merrill's reputation with the clan, made them all believe she was some raving abomination, then sacrificed herself to save Merrill, and left her to deal with all of the fallout with the clan.

Unless Marethari was sh*t stupid, she would know that the clan would blame Merrill and want vengeance after all the horrible things she said about Merrill to them.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 29 janvier 2013 - 03:12 .

[dragonflight288]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
If Hawke "takes the blame" paraphrase, he's really blaming Merrill in the actual dialogue, and that didn't make any sense to me. Keeper Marethari chose to release Audacity from its prison, she didn't warn anyone until long after she released the demon, she didn't caution her clan to leave Sundermount for their own safety, and she didn't have anyone nearby to kill her once the demon possessed her. Why should I blame Merrill?

Technically if Merrill hadn't insisted on fixing the mirror Marethari never would have had reason to release Audacity.  Depends how far back you want to go on the blame train.  A caused B leading to C and finally D, one could argue that A, B, or C were to blame for D.

Marethari brought it on her self.

She's a pot who called the kettle black(she used blood magic to cleanse Mahariel's blood to treat his/her taint infection) then faulted Merrill for doing the same.(Dalish don't have the same stigma for blood magic as Andrasteans, it's just another tool, albeit a dangerous one)

She ruined Merrill's reputation with the clan, made them all believe she was some raving abomination, then sacrificed herself to save Merrill, and left her to deal with all of the fallout with the clan.

Unless Marethari was sh*t stupid, she would know that the clan would blame Merrill and want vengeance after all the horrible things she said about Merrill to them.

There is no evidence that says Merethari used blood magic to treat Mahariel. Just a powerful healing magic. We know that when blood magic is used, it amplifies the power of the spell in a way similar to lyrium. Merrill admits that if she had lyrium, she would've used that to cleanse the shard, but as the Chantry controls the lyrium trade, she didn't have access, so she used blood magic to augment her power to cleanse the shard instead.

And yeah, Merethari did ruin Merrill's reputation.

Merethari: They believe that you'll bring the taint back that took two of our hunters.
Merrill: And why would they believe that?
Merethari: Because I told them da'len. It's not too late. You can come back.

Me: ...... IDIOT! Pol just ran away, fearing Merrill more than he did the Varterral and died, the clan HATES her, Merrill left of her own volition, and the danger of the taint coming back is completely nonexistent at this point!

[MisterJB]

dragonflight288 wrote...
And yeah, Merethari did ruin Merrill's reputation.

Merethari: They believe that you'll bring the taint back that took two of our hunters.
Merrill: And why would they believe that?
Merethari: Because I told them da'len. It's not too late. You can come back.

Me: ...... IDIOT! Pol just ran away, fearing Merrill more than he did the Varterral and died, the clan HATES her, Merrill left of her own volition, and the danger of the taint coming back is completely nonexistent at this point!

Her reputation would improve drastically if the clan saw Merril shattering the mirror into a thousands pieces.
It's far too soon to claim that the danger of the Taint returning is nonexistent. According to Tamlen, the Eluvians could very well lead to the Black City itself; the very heart of the Taint in Thedas; and that there is something in there waiting, watching...
The Eluvians are anything but safe.

[IanPolaris]

MisterJB wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
And yeah, Merethari did ruin Merrill's reputation.

Merethari: They believe that you'll bring the taint back that took two of our hunters.
Merrill: And why would they believe that?
Merethari: Because I told them da'len. It's not too late. You can come back.

Me: ...... IDIOT! Pol just ran away, fearing Merrill more than he did the Varterral and died, the clan HATES her, Merrill left of her own volition, and the danger of the taint coming back is completely nonexistent at this point!

Her reputation would improve drastically if the clan saw Merril shattering the mirror into a thousands pieces.
It's far too soon to claim that the danger of the Taint returning is nonexistent. According to Tamlen, the Eluvians could very well lead to the Black City itself; the very heart of the Taint in Thedas; and that there is something in there waiting, watching...
The Eluvians are anything but safe.

Tamlen is hardly an expert on Elluvians.  However we DO have good data here.  The Dalish that were in proximity of the untreated Elluvian were quickly subject to the blight (Witch Hunt) as well as the Dalish Warden and of course Tamlen.

By contrast, Merrill had the shard for seven years and was in close proximity to it for all that time.  Merrill never shows any sign of the taint.  Let's be clear it was the taint that made the mirror dangerous.  Even Finn (who is about as well read on the Elluvians as a human can be) says that the mirrors never showed that kind of danger in of themselves.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Unless Marethari was sh*t stupid, she would know that the clan would blame Merrill and want vengeance after all the horrible things she said about Merrill to them.

Frankly by this point (year seven), I think the 'unbelievably stupid' theory is probably the right one.  There is something about Kirkwall (and the proximity to Audacity) that seems to make all mages not named Hawke turn into brainless idiots.

-Polaris

[MisterJB]

Tamlen actually saw through the Eluvian, he saw a dark city and something watching him.
Finn studied a time where the Eluvian were used as connections between the elven empire, where they would probrably be no more dangerous than a car, yes. After the Magisters sunk Arlathan, however, who knows what happened.
Perhaps breaking the Eluvian destroyed the connection that existed between it and the Black City(Arlathan?) therefore leaving only the residual Taint in the shards themselves as a danger. Should it be restored, however, the connection could be made again and the Taint return.

Of course, that is all speculation but I'd rather assume the worst. I'm not opposed to studying it so much as I'm opposed to a single elf messing with it in the backroom of her hut in the middle of a city where the Veil is paper thin. That's a recipe for disaster.

Modifié par MisterJB, 29 janvier 2013 - 06:53 .

[IanPolaris]

MisterJB wrote...

Tamlen actually saw through the Eluvian, he saw a dark city and something watching him.
Finn studied a time where the Eluvian were used as connections between the elven empire, where they would probrably be no more dangerous than a car, yes. After the Magisters sunk Arlathan, however, who knows what happened.
Perhaps breaking the Eluvian destroyed the connection that existed between it and the Black City(Arlathan?) therefore leaving only the residual Taint in the shards themselves as a danger. Should it be restored, however, the connection could be made again and the Taint return.

Of course, that is all speculation but I'd rather assume the worst. I'm not opposed to studying it so much as I'm opposed to a single elf messing with it in the backroom of her hut in the middle of a city where the Veil is paper thin. That's a recipe for disaster.

And Duncan explains that the mirrors can draw corruption to them.  You have no idea and certainly NO PROOF that the city that Tamlin saw was the black city.  I also point out that Morrigan did get her mirror working againt and it was untainted, and that the tainted mirror does still have a connection to untainted mirrors (otherwise Finn's ritual wouldn't have worked).

In short, the FACTS that we have strongly suggest that you are wrong.  Merrill was in no danger (at least not from the taint and let's be clear it was the taint that killed Tamlen not the mirror itself).

Basically I view it as the writers of DA2 going out of their way to try to slime Merrill and her perfectly reasnable view of magic in the game.

-Polaris

[MisterJB]

Tamlen was no expert on Eluvians but now Duncan is? There is extensive evidence that suggests Tamlen saw the Black City. We know for a fact that the Magisters broke into it and we also know that this caused their corruption which suggests the City is the source of the Taint. And here we have a Tainted Eluvian from which a city can be seen. And we know from Morrigan that the Eluvians lead to a place beyond Thedas and the Fade. What is the one place that is said to be unreachable from both Thedas and the Fade? The Black City.
As for Morrigan, she has an extensive knowledge of old magic, she is even capable of attracting an Untainted Soul of an Old God. Chances are she cleansed the Eluvian in the Nest long enough for it to be used.

The blood mage incapable of distinguishing between religious dogma and scientific study of demons and their beahvior has reasonable views on magic? Right.
And you think that Lore that was extablished before DA2 was written is being used to slime Merril?

Modifié par MisterJB, 29 janvier 2013 - 07:19 .

[IanPolaris]

MisterJB wrote...

Tamlen was no expert on Eluvians but now Duncan is? There is extensive vidence that suggests Tamlen saw the Black City. We know for a fact that the Magisters broke into it and we also know that this caused their corruption which suggests the City is the source of the Taint. And here we have a Tainted Eluvian from which a city can be seen. And we know from Morrigan that the Eluvians lead to a place beyond Thedas and the Fade. What is the one place that is said to be unreachable from both Thedas and the Fade? The Black City.
As for Morrigan, she has an extensive knowledge of old magic, she is even capable of attracting an Untainted Soul of an Old God. Chances are she cleansed the Eluvian in the Nest long enough for it to be used.

The blood mage incapable of distinguishing between religious dogma and scientific study of demons and their beahvior has reasonable views on magic? Right.
And you think that Lore that was extablished before DA2 was written is being used to slime Merril?

Duncan is a far better expert than Tamlen is.  Duncan at least knows what he knows and admits to not knowning what he doesn't know.  As Warden Commander of Fereldan, Duncan was probably the best available expert on matters of the taint and the blight.  At no time did he say that the mirrors were intrinsically corrupted but rather they could (which implies prior Warden experience) draw and focus the corruption to them and when that happened, they had to be shattered.  It was the TAINT that killed Tamlen, not the mirror.

You also are completely missing the point about Morrigan.  The mirrors are all interconnected.  Finn (who IS the best human expert on this) makes that clear as does his ritual.  If the mirror was inextricably bound to the black city, then Morrigan's mirror should have been tainted as well but it wasn't.

Furthermore, we know for a fact that the shard that Merrill has been working with as well as the mirror that she reconstructed is taint free.  We know this for a fact because it if weren't Merrill would have been a ghoul long before year seven. 

As for your snarky comment about a bloodmage being unable to distinquish to between scientific rigour and religious dogma, sorry but you are WRONG.  That criticism applies to Anders not Merrill.  Merrill correctly identifies all spirits as dangerous, and she handles spirits with far more care and rigour than Anders ever does.  It is Merrill that distinquishes between belief and how magic actually works....something no one else does....and the writers of DA2 slime her by making her talk like a ditz.  It's one reason I really loathe how magic is protrayed in DA2 (esp since it is contrary to much of the preexisting lore).

-Polaris

[MisterJB]

Duncan understood the Taint but his knowledge of its connection with the Black City and, furthermore, the connection of the City with the Eluvian would be limited at the very best.
No, I'm not. Morrigan, thanks to her aprenticeship with Flemeth, knows more about old magic that anyone one else we've seen in Thedas. This is made obviously clear by the Dark Ritual which involved the Taint.
Morrigan says she went to great pains to activate the Eluvian; something Merril never actually accomplished which raises the possibility that is what stopped the return of the Taint; which could mean that she cleansed the Eluvian long enough for it to be used to travel to the Black City.

Bottom line, there is a strong possibility that the Eluvian is inherently dangerous so long as the Black City is Tainted; nevermind that it apparently can be used as a portal for demons; and it should be studied in a remote location with a strong Veil by senior Enchanters with Templars and Grey Wardens nearby. Not by a lone, young elf in the backroom of her hut in the middle of a city full of innocents where the Veil is paper thin.

It's not that a blood mage is incapable of distinguishing between religion and science. It's that Merril has allowed her views of the Chantry to pollute her views of demons.
All spirits are dangerous, that's true. But, when Anders attempts to explain that demons break down into different sins, she dismisses this as a human story yo explain the world and that demons differ from each other like humans do.
However, if one should read the Codex entry on sloth demons, for instance, one will see that the Chantry and the Circle have studied demons extensively. They have observed their behavior. who they are most attracted to, their effect on people. That's a scientific study.
If Merril wants to believe in the Creators and not the Maker, that's fine. The truth lies probrably somewhere in the middles, anyway. But she can't simply disregard these studies just because they were conducted by humans and not elves.

Modifié par MisterJB, 29 janvier 2013 - 07:45 .