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Has Mass Effect 3 Destroyed Your "Trust" in Bioware?


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#376
txgoldrush

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Darth Suetam wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Darth Suetam wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Darth Suetam wrote...

There is no sacrifice or struggle in ME3 ending. Not even from the writers to produce it. It's "Deus Ex" ending ripped off, so they could meet a deadline. Don't try to push it txgoldrush.


And the ignorance level of this board continues to rise.....


Oh, you see what no one sees, right? And it's not a "Deus Ex" rip-off? :D


Other than synthesis being similiar to JC's ending in Invisble War...no


Well, unless you didn't play "Deus Ex", you may be playing dumb (very, very dumb) here, but it's exactly the same ending. The same 3 choices, with just some words altered on the explanation. So, no matter how you try to provoke people, you just proved that your intentions here are just that: to provoke. You don't have a point.


Wrong....

Can JC Denton override and become Helios? No, he merges with him......This is different from the Control ending. Diffent context, in Deus Ex, he accepts Helios's logic, in ME3 Shepard doesn't.

#377
drayfish

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txgoldrush wrote...

drayfish wrote...

I don't think you understand what 'sacrifice' means in this context.

A character can sacrifice themself - as Kaiden or Ashley did, knowing the risks they were taking as soldiers; Shepard can sacrifice him/her self in order to end the war (as you yourself say: 'people lay down their lives...') - but 'sacrifice' takes on a whole new meaning when you start tossing others onto the fire to appease your enemy.  That kind of 'sacrifice' is more offering-up-the-virgins-to-an-angry-god kind, and has none of the nobility that you are mistakenly attributing to it.  It is a form of nihilistic bargaining that necessarily hope you claim to celebrate.

In any case, you are free to think what you want (the best that can be said of the ME3 endings is that they offer you that luxury).  But I don't think it's very helpful, or speaks very profitably to your critical capacity, to swagger about on a forum declaring that people are too stupid to appreciate your headcanon.


Wrong again.

"- but 'sacrifice' takes on a whole new meaning when you start tossing others onto the fire to appease your enemy. That kind of 'sacrifice' is more offering-up-the-virgins-to-an-angry-god kind, and has none of the nobility that you are mistakenly attributing to it. It is a form of nihilistic bargaining that necessarily hope you claim to celebrate."

And yet this kind of sacrifice is attributed to Cerberus, which both Paragon and Renegade Shep are against. The sacrifices made without regret and without feeling. Notice how Shepard and TIM are foils when it comes to sacrifice....TIM sacrifices people on the altar for his own gain without feeling and regret, while Shepard, when forced to sacrifice others, lives with it and regrets it.

Shepard regrets having to send other to harms way, he regrets and is saddened over shooting Mordin, he has to live with it...and then look at James and his decision on Fehl Prime.

It isn't headcanon, its all in the narrative. Hell, look at Vigil.....for the Protheans to suceeed at rigging the Citadel, they had to shut off pods of non essential staff, sacrifcing them to get the job done. Victory through sacrifice is a theme there too. If the Protheans did no tmake those sacrifices, the Reapers win.


Cool.

Thank you for proving my point on both counts.

#378
Peranor

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Just give up txgoldrush. You've already lost this debate. And you're far to stupid and egocentric to ever be taken seriously in any kind of discussion anyway.

#379
Jorji Costava

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@txgoldrush:

I think what drayfish is getting at with the destroy ending is that if the theme is sacrifice, the implementation is no good. An easy way to dramatize the theme of sacrifice would have been to have the crucible wipe out earth, or wipe out some substantial portion of the fleet, perhaps including the Normandy. That would have been a tough choice, but it wouldn't have the problematic implications of the current destroy ending.

If the point of destroy is that sacrifices have to be made, why are we picking on a species that, depending on your playthrough, has a decent chance of not even existing anymore to be sacrificed? Why are we structuring things in such a way as to specifically reward the "They're just toasters" mentality, particularly after the game has gone through so much trouble giving EDI and Legion Pinocchio stories? On top of that, why is their sacrifice so downplayed by the ending? You don't exactly see heartbreaking images of your Geth buddies flopping over dead on the battlefield. The extended cut whitewashes the whole affair, using the less specific language of 'synthetics' instead of referring directly to the Geth, apparently in an attempt to make us feel less bad about their deaths. On top of everything, the destroy ending is the only one where you have a chance to live, an element which seems to run contrary to the theme of sacrifice, if anything. If the theme of this ending is sacrifice, the message is, apparently, 'Sacrifice isn't such a big deal, as long as it isn't you or your own being sacrificed." Speaking only for myself, that's what I find so distasteful about it.

If we're looking at things from the point of view of authorial intent, then I would venture to say that the destruction of synthetics in destroy is not about sacrifice; it is not an arbitrary price attached to the ending to make you feel bad (otherwise, they wouldn't go through so much trouble to make you not feel bad). It's the whole point of that ending. They actually wanted us to take the singularity hypothesis of the catalyst seriously; the point of the destruction of the Geth is that if we don't destroy synthetics now, who's going to prevent them from wiping out all organic life? Destroy is supposed to represent the blunt, impatient solution to the singularity. When you get to the end, the game isn't about the war with the reapers; it's about solving the tension between synthetics and organics.

I didn't for a moment take seriously the singularity stuff, so none of the endings worked for me at all. But that's well-trodden territory for me at this point, and this post is getting dangerously close to tl;dr material already. If you enjoyed this ending, and genuinely felt that it was principally about sacrifice and hard choices, then that's perfectly okay. For my own part, though, I couldn't play through any of the ending scenarios without reading some Unfortunate Implications into them.

#380
Guest_Paulomedi_*

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drayfish wrote...

Ninja Stan wrote...

This kinda leads to another question that I'm reticent to ask, but it's related:

This kind of sentiment is brought up quite a bit, and more power to you for doing so. But for people who claim to be huge fans who had faith in the company and trusted them to release product that you wouldn't be disappointed in, sometimes all it takes is one bad product to make you change your mind.

I know I won't get a complete answer right now, but if the next Mass Effect game does what the marketing claims, is as good as the hype says it is, receives many top marks, and is said by fans to be pretty darn good, would that be enough to change your mind and restore that trust you once had? Would ME3 (and maybe DA2, if you lean that way) then be seen as statistical anomalies in BioWare's gameography, or has the trust been well and truly severed and each good, worthy game becomes but a stepping stone to restoring that faith?

.  

I rarely ever post here after my Omega thread got locked, but I'm compelled by this post. I agree with everything that drayfish posted above, and summarizes, for Stan and any other BW employee, what Bioware did wrong. 


@Ninja Stan's several questions:

Considering the substantial, and rather worrying cognitive dissonance many fans (myself included) perceived between the numerous pre-release promises and what was actually delivered; considering the disparity between the near-universally gushing review scores and what actually appeared in the game (the bugs, the narrative railroading, the utterly required multiplayer despite repeated assurances to the contrary, and the muddled, obscure ending – almost none of which was addressed in reviewer analysis); and taking into account the near industry-wide condemnation of any fans who dared voice their displeasure at the game; I would argue that the confidence you place in any future alignment between the press and customer satisfaction is a little fantastical. 

I have many issues with Bioware and Mass Effect 3 (which I will get to in a moment), but a good deal of other worrying issues extend into the 'games journalism' field itself, and the uncomfortable relationship that developers such as Bioware have with those people who should be holding publishers to greater account. The fact that your equation for future player satisfaction still relies upon some alignment between review scores and player experience, without anyone actually bothering to examine and correct what created such a glaring discrepancy this time around, suggests that very little – if indeed nothing – has been learned from this experience.

As for Bioware itself, although I am not sure I would categorise the sensation as the 'destruction' of some blind 'trust' I had in the company (they are, after all, a business, and I a consumer), what I did have faith in was a certain standard of product – both mechanically and narratively. Previous to ME3, every Bioware game I had played impressed me as a work of depth and expanse. Characters were well-rounded, plots (for the limitations of an RPG structure) were branching and surprising, design and programming were impeccable, all of which created an immersive world that the player could invest in. From the freedom to explore of ME1, to the multiplicity of choice and backstory and endgame in Dragon Age: Origins, to the depth of character and emotional resonance of ME2. There seemed to be a ratio of developer care to player investment that always suggested this was a team that would not cynically rush a product to market.

And so, what rather shocked me at first about ME3 was the lack of polish. 

As I said, one of the traits of Bioware games I had put faith in was a level of presentational and structural finesse.  It probably goes without saying at this point that I had (and have) not played Dragon Age 2 – so when I started ME3, the animation glitches, face import failure, and frequent dismissals of major choices from the previous games rather took me by surprise. It struck me as the kind of rushed work I attributed to other developers – not Bioware.

That the game was suddenly dismissing major decisions from the previous games (who was councillor; the death of the Racchni; the Collector Base; Shepard's entire character backstory, etc), a central component of the RPG elements continuously touted by Bioware to be at the centre of this experience for half a decade; that the game was suddenly dictating who the character of Shepard was to me, contrary to my personal input (she cares so much about 'random kid in the universe' that she will be haunted by him in naff dreams; she loved Kaiden and lamented his death, apparently); that the game severely truncated the speech options and had whole swaths of uninterrupted auto-dialogue; that it stripped away legitimate side-missions in favour of obscure, unfulfilling fetch-quests and a wholly linear narrative with little to no variation in level progression – all indicated that this game operated very differently from those that had come before it. Indeed, this was so evident that despite the frequent narrative call-backs presented, it was difficult to align this with the two games that had preceded it; with the exceptions of the Genophage arc and a good portion of the Rannoch missions, this entry seemed streamlined and narrowed to the point of losing all of the qualities that define a reactive, immersive Mass Effect experience entirely.  (That there was an 'Action mode' only cemented this feeling further.)

But all of this only disappointed me. What horrified me was the ending. 

And I am not talking about the cut corners, the deus ex machina, the illogical narrative leaps that needed to be spackled over in the EC, or the ham-fistedly on the nose religious metaphor of Shepard's sacrifice. I am talking about the moment in which it was made clear that Bioware – I presume in some misguided attempt to load an artless gravitas into the final decision tree – advocated the application of either an act of genocide, eugenic purgation, or becoming a totalitarian god. 

And it is not enough to argue, as some people have, that 'the player did not have to do any of those things – they were choices', because the game was engineered so that it could only be completed if one of those choices was made. The conflict of the entire Mass Effect sage has been about racial conflict – metaphorically presented in the violence between synthetic and organic – and the only way to end it is to employ one of three war crimes. There is no way to work together, no way to have faith in your fellow allies, no way to talk the enemy of the game down from their intolerant hate-screed. You just have to do what they ask: exterminate a race of beings because their lives are worth less than yours; ascend to the arrogant position of an unstoppably dictatorial monster; or mutate every life in the universe to have the same DNA - because that's the only way to 'peace'.

Bioware decided to use their trilogy to send a nihilistic message about to futility of struggle and hope: you can't win by believing in stupid things like diversity and inclusivity. War can only be overcome by being the one to employ the war crime for your agenda (whatever that might be). Bigotry can only be overcome by forcing your will upon others: wiping them out, forcing them to get along, or violating them to become all genetically the same.

I have literally never seen a more horrifying message offered by a piece of popular entertainment in my life. And the fact that Bioware not only published such a hateful world-view in their fiction (perverting an otherwise hopeful and wondrous narrative in the process), but then after the fact became so aggressively protective of it – announcing themselves bewildered that fans could not appreciate their cynical vision and conceding only to expand the point they had made without explanation or compromise, has led me to believe that either Bioware is so blinded by hubris that they are incapable of actually taking responsibility for the implications of their fiction, or truly do have a vision of the world that stands fundamentally and profoundly opposed to my own. 

Either way though, it is near impossible to see that gaping fissure being overcome by a few good reviews from fans and press next time (they were hardly indicative this time around anyway). To me the company Bioware is either narcissistically blind or so filled with a need to spout angsty, intolerant drivel, that their future texts will ultimately have little I want to engage with to say anyway.



#381
Darth Garrus

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txgoldrush wrote...

Wrong....

Can JC Denton override and become Helios? No, he merges with him......This is different from the Control ending. Diffent context, in Deus Ex, he accepts Helios's logic, in ME3 Shepard doesn't.


Zzzzzzz. Right, right. Keep trying. In the meantime, grow up.

#382
drayfish

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osbornep wrote...

@txgoldrush:

I think what drayfish is getting at with the destroy ending is that if the theme is sacrifice, the implementation is no good. An easy way to dramatize the theme of sacrifice would have been to have the crucible wipe out earth, or wipe out some substantial portion of the fleet, perhaps including the Normandy. That would have been a tough choice, but it wouldn't have the problematic implications of the current destroy ending.

If the point of destroy is that sacrifices have to be made, why are we picking on a species that, depending on your playthrough, has a decent chance of not even existing anymore to be sacrificed? Why are we structuring things in such a way as to specifically reward the "They're just toasters" mentality, particularly after the game has gone through so much trouble giving EDI and Legion Pinocchio stories? On top of that, why is their sacrifice so downplayed by the ending? You don't exactly see heartbreaking images of your Geth buddies flopping over dead on the battlefield. The extended cut whitewashes the whole affair, using the less specific language of 'synthetics' instead of referring directly to the Geth, apparently in an attempt to make us feel less bad about their deaths. On top of everything, the destroy ending is the only one where you have a chance to live, an element which seems to run contrary to the theme of sacrifice, if anything. If the theme of this ending is sacrifice, the message is, apparently, 'Sacrifice isn't such a big deal, as long as it isn't you or your own being sacrificed." Speaking only for myself, that's what I find so distasteful about it.

If we're looking at things from the point of view of authorial intent, then I would venture to say that the destruction of synthetics in destroy is not about sacrifice; it is not an arbitrary price attached to the ending to make you feel bad (otherwise, they wouldn't go through so much trouble to make you not feel bad). It's the whole point of that ending. They actually wanted us to take the singularity hypothesis of the catalyst seriously; the point of the destruction of the Geth is that if we don't destroy synthetics now, who's going to prevent them from wiping out all organic life? Destroy is supposed to represent the blunt, impatient solution to the singularity. When you get to the end, the game isn't about the war with the reapers; it's about solving the tension between synthetics and organics.

I didn't for a moment take seriously the singularity stuff, so none of the endings worked for me at all. But that's well-trodden territory for me at this point, and this post is getting dangerously close to tl;dr material already. If you enjoyed this ending, and genuinely felt that it was principally about sacrifice and hard choices, then that's perfectly okay. For my own part, though, I couldn't play through any of the ending scenarios without reading some Unfortunate Implications into them.


Beautifully stated osbornep.  Precisely what I was trying to say, but clearly did not articulate so elegantly as you.

Thanks.

#383
OMEGAlomaniac

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So many arguments in a thread that only has to be Yes or No :/

Me?: Yes

#384
txgoldrush

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drayfish wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

drayfish wrote...

I don't think you understand what 'sacrifice' means in this context.

A character can sacrifice themself - as Kaiden or Ashley did, knowing the risks they were taking as soldiers; Shepard can sacrifice him/her self in order to end the war (as you yourself say: 'people lay down their lives...') - but 'sacrifice' takes on a whole new meaning when you start tossing others onto the fire to appease your enemy.  That kind of 'sacrifice' is more offering-up-the-virgins-to-an-angry-god kind, and has none of the nobility that you are mistakenly attributing to it.  It is a form of nihilistic bargaining that necessarily hope you claim to celebrate.

In any case, you are free to think what you want (the best that can be said of the ME3 endings is that they offer you that luxury).  But I don't think it's very helpful, or speaks very profitably to your critical capacity, to swagger about on a forum declaring that people are too stupid to appreciate your headcanon.


Wrong again.

"- but 'sacrifice' takes on a whole new meaning when you start tossing others onto the fire to appease your enemy. That kind of 'sacrifice' is more offering-up-the-virgins-to-an-angry-god kind, and has none of the nobility that you are mistakenly attributing to it. It is a form of nihilistic bargaining that necessarily hope you claim to celebrate."

And yet this kind of sacrifice is attributed to Cerberus, which both Paragon and Renegade Shep are against. The sacrifices made without regret and without feeling. Notice how Shepard and TIM are foils when it comes to sacrifice....TIM sacrifices people on the altar for his own gain without feeling and regret, while Shepard, when forced to sacrifice others, lives with it and regrets it.

Shepard regrets having to send other to harms way, he regrets and is saddened over shooting Mordin, he has to live with it...and then look at James and his decision on Fehl Prime.

It isn't headcanon, its all in the narrative. Hell, look at Vigil.....for the Protheans to suceeed at rigging the Citadel, they had to shut off pods of non essential staff, sacrifcing them to get the job done. Victory through sacrifice is a theme there too. If the Protheans did no tmake those sacrifices, the Reapers win.


Cool.

Thank you for proving my point on both counts.


Wrong

None of the times Shepard sacrifices others is the appease to the bad guys kind. Thats Cerberus. But Shepard has to be willing to sacrifice others to achieve victory, even Paragon.

And yet, Destroy is also Starboys least perfered option, even warning you about the future if you do so. So how is implimenting the option an appeasement to him. Its denying him.

Nevermind that Shepard does think of EDI if Destroy is chosen. This proves MY point.

#385
Kusy

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I say two more failures and the BioWare subdivision of EA is sent to the body pit with other great studios that served it's purpose.

The Old Republic was a decisive failure, Dragon Age 2 was a failure in many respects, Mass Effect 3 was not really a failure but caused THE biggest industry related controversy of the decade, if not to date.

Two more failures and it's the black bag over the head and a sleep with the fishes.

#386
clarkusdarkus

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DA2/TOR/ME3....it's not about trust, it's about a steady decline in quality that's the reason why i havent bought dlc, replayed ME3 or purchasing ME4....the complete denial over the travesty of a game in ME3 mean's i for one don't seem the target audience anymore as i once was back in 2007 when ME1 changed sci-fi Roleplaying for many of us......

@drayfish... It's always a pleasure reading your thoughts on here as you speak the most sense on how i see ME3 yet cant put the words and sentiment as you can, and kudos to your patience as trying to get through the indoctrinated drones would drive me mad.... Hell if i enjoyed ME3 i wouldnt be on a forum like i wasnt with ME1/2...

Modifié par clarkusdarkus, 05 janvier 2013 - 01:23 .


#387
txgoldrush

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osbornep wrote...

@txgoldrush:

I think what drayfish is getting at with the destroy ending is that if the theme is sacrifice, the implementation is no good. An easy way to dramatize the theme of sacrifice would have been to have the crucible wipe out earth, or wipe out some substantial portion of the fleet, perhaps including the Normandy. That would have been a tough choice, but it wouldn't have the problematic implications of the current destroy ending.

If the point of destroy is that sacrifices have to be made, why are we picking on a species that, depending on your playthrough, has a decent chance of not even existing anymore to be sacrificed? Why are we structuring things in such a way as to specifically reward the "They're just toasters" mentality, particularly after the game has gone through so much trouble giving EDI and Legion Pinocchio stories? On top of that, why is their sacrifice so downplayed by the ending? You don't exactly see heartbreaking images of your Geth buddies flopping over dead on the battlefield. The extended cut whitewashes the whole affair, using the less specific language of 'synthetics' instead of referring directly to the Geth, apparently in an attempt to make us feel less bad about their deaths. On top of everything, the destroy ending is the only one where you have a chance to live, an element which seems to run contrary to the theme of sacrifice, if anything. If the theme of this ending is sacrifice, the message is, apparently, 'Sacrifice isn't such a big deal, as long as it isn't you or your own being sacrificed." Speaking only for myself, that's what I find so distasteful about it.

If we're looking at things from the point of view of authorial intent, then I would venture to say that the destruction of synthetics in destroy is not about sacrifice; it is not an arbitrary price attached to the ending to make you feel bad (otherwise, they wouldn't go through so much trouble to make you not feel bad). It's the whole point of that ending. They actually wanted us to take the singularity hypothesis of the catalyst seriously; the point of the destruction of the Geth is that if we don't destroy synthetics now, who's going to prevent them from wiping out all organic life? Destroy is supposed to represent the blunt, impatient solution to the singularity. When you get to the end, the game isn't about the war with the reapers; it's about solving the tension between synthetics and organics.

I didn't for a moment take seriously the singularity stuff, so none of the endings worked for me at all. But that's well-trodden territory for me at this point, and this post is getting dangerously close to tl;dr material already. If you enjoyed this ending, and genuinely felt that it was principally about sacrifice and hard choices, then that's perfectly okay. For my own part, though, I couldn't play through any of the ending scenarios without reading some Unfortunate Implications into them.



 Also, did you forget, Destroy can also destroy Earth, Shepard, and the Normandy if your EMS is low and you did not get enough help to protect the Crucible.

Also don't forget that EDI is ALWAYS one of the three characters shown when Shepard makes the decision....its always Anderson, the most significant non LI loss, and the LI (alive or dead). EDI automatically becomes the 2nd character shown.

" the point of the destruction of the Geth is that if we don't destroy synthetics now, who's going to prevent them from wiping out all organic life? "

wrong

Its the collateral damage, the consquence, the Crucible takes, nothing arbitrary. Its from synthetics only, to hybrids like Shep, to all technology, to everything...according to EMS. The Extended Cut actually changed this....from "you can kill all the geth if you want?" a god awful line that was thrown out...to "but be warned, others will be targeted as well".

Modifié par txgoldrush, 05 janvier 2013 - 01:32 .


#388
Guest_Paulomedi_*

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People, stop arguing with txgoldrush. He's a known troll.

#389
drayfish

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txgoldrush wrote...

drayfish wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Wrong again.

"- but 'sacrifice' takes on a whole new meaning when you start tossing others onto the fire to appease your enemy. That kind of 'sacrifice' is more offering-up-the-virgins-to-an-angry-god kind, and has none of the nobility that you are mistakenly attributing to it. It is a form of nihilistic bargaining that necessarily hope you claim to celebrate."

And yet this kind of sacrifice is attributed to Cerberus, which both Paragon and Renegade Shep are against. The sacrifices made without regret and without feeling. Notice how Shepard and TIM are foils when it comes to sacrifice....TIM sacrifices people on the altar for his own gain without feeling and regret, while Shepard, when forced to sacrifice others, lives with it and regrets it.

Shepard regrets having to send other to harms way, he regrets and is saddened over shooting Mordin, he has to live with it...and then look at James and his decision on Fehl Prime.

It isn't headcanon, its all in the narrative. Hell, look at Vigil.....for the Protheans to suceeed at rigging the Citadel, they had to shut off pods of non essential staff, sacrifcing them to get the job done. Victory through sacrifice is a theme there too. If the Protheans did no tmake those sacrifices, the Reapers win.


Cool.

Thank you for proving my point on both counts.


Wrong

None of the times Shepard sacrifices others is the appease to the bad guys kind. Thats Cerberus. But Shepard has to be willing to sacrifice others to achieve victory, even Paragon.

And yet, Destroy is also Starboys least perfered option, even warning you about the future if you do so. So how is implimenting the option an appeasement to him. Its denying him.

Nevermind that Shepard does think of EDI if Destroy is chosen. This proves MY point.


You like arbitrarily saying 'wrong', don't you?

As I've said a couple of times now - there are more adult ways to contribute to a discussion than name-calling and arrogant dismissals such as this.

And again: kicking a friend in front of a bus because a bad guy tells you to is not a 'sacrifice'; likewise, choosing one of his options because it 'solves' his problem is not really defiance in any way that the word can be defined.

But believe what you will.  It is obvious that nothing that is said to you has any impact or cut-through.  Just please try to show some basic human courtesy to the people that you are currently childishly insulting.

#390
Brovikk Rasputin

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Not really. Mass Effect 3 was a pretty amazing game. You can't really deny that.

#391
IC-07

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With all the complaints, Bioware's best way of solving ME3 problems is just to remake the game. But that means I just threw away my money for nothing... Screw it, let it be crap.

#392
MyAwesomeAfro

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I'd love a remake. Seriously.

#393
clarkusdarkus

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Someone say a remake... Im in

#394
Brovikk Rasputin

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I'm not in.

#395
crimzontearz

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The_XBL_Nihilus wrote...

There is always a choice. Face it. Bioware is not losing sleep over the bundles of cash they have thanks to their loyal (and now betrayed) fans.

bro....seriously.....no, that is not how it works. Focus your anger on those who deserve it

#396
Brovikk Rasputin

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crimzontearz wrote...

The_XBL_Nihilus wrote...

There is always a choice. Face it. Bioware is not losing sleep over the bundles of cash they have thanks to their loyal (and now betrayed) fans.

bro....seriously.....no, that is not how it works. Focus your anger on those who deserve it

No point in being angry. 

#397
crimzontearz

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Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Not really. Mass Effect 3 was a pretty amazing game. You can't really deny that.

given that that is subjective....yes, yes I can

#398
IC-07

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Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

I'm not in.


It's like we payed for nothing. Although our motives are different, I agree.

#399
Brovikk Rasputin

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crimzontearz wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Not really. Mass Effect 3 was a pretty amazing game. You can't really deny that.

given that that is subjective....yes, yes I can

I don't see any arguements. You can't just say stuff without proper reasoning behind your claims.

#400
crimzontearz

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Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

The_XBL_Nihilus wrote...

There is always a choice. Face it. Bioware is not losing sleep over the bundles of cash they have thanks to their loyal (and now betrayed) fans.

bro....seriously.....no, that is not how it works. Focus your anger on those who deserve it

No point in being angry. 

it is better than supinely accepting it all and pretending all is well