599 réponses à ce sujet

[TheProtheans]

Of the boards I seen which was about 6, 5 did.
Bioware doesn't, if I went to more I would probably know more but I don't.
And I believe the point is it doesn't set a "bad" precedent when writers standards somewhat drop or a controversial decision is taking.

[ZeCollectorDestroya]

No it hasn't, people here are young gamers. Most developers make mistakes, you learn from them. Even if you make a couple of mistakes.

The only way I will lose complete trust in Bioware is if they KEEP repeating this problem. If DA3 and ME4 fail, then I will lose trust.

[Outsider edge]

ld1449 wrote...

Ninja Stan wrote...

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

Mass Effect 3 completed the process that Mass Effect 2 began, I'm very unlikely to ever buy a Bioware product again.

This kinda leads to another question that I'm reticent to ask, but it's related:

This kind of sentiment is brought up quite a bit, and more power to you for doing so. But for people who claim to be huge fans who had faith in the company and trusted them to release product that you wouldn't be disappointed in, sometimes all it takes is one bad product to make you change your mind.

I know I won't get a complete answer right now, but if the next Mass Effect game does what the marketing claims, is as good as the hype says it is, receives many top marks, and is said by fans to be pretty darn good, would that be enough to change your mind and restore that trust you once had? Would ME3 (and maybe DA2, if you lean that way) then be seen as statistical anomalies in BioWare's gameography, or has the trust been well and truly severed and each good, worthy game becomes but a stepping stone to restoring that faith?

No.

Truth be told. Its not just Mass Effect 3's disasterous ending that broke my trust. It was more Bioware's response to it.

And sure you Stan can preach up and down that we the fans don't know the whole process, don't realize this or that going on behind closed doors and all the factors that come in to the decisions and thus can't get the full picture.

Well whoop-dee-doo.

That still doesn't change a very simple truth, that when this game went gold we were flat out lied to. I know that the rachni promise came no earlier than December, four months before the game went out. Casey Hudson's promise on the endings and how widely varried they were came out in january.

I don't know what happened behind closed doors, I don't know the factors for decisions made I don't have the full picture.

And quite frankly, I don't care because 1 I'm never going to have that full picture, and 2 there was never any sort of apology for these statements after the game went GOLD. I don't expect every promise even in the alpha stage of development to be carried through and to be apologized to when it falls out for whatever reason but after the game goes Gold with just 3 months before the release is inexcusable.

Then during the three months before the extended cut release you have Chris Priestly doing polls on "do you believe in the Indoc. Theory" not doing anything to rectify people getting their hopes up for the IT. Not even a statement at the begining. 

Another point where someone at Comic Conwas saying Gameplay elements are "most likely" going to be featured.

They screened questions at Comic Con

You have Merizian advertizing a world wide survey done by German fans on the ending only to discard the results which showed an overwhelming negativity/desire to cut the ending out, later when they supposedly didn't match up their own results (which they refused to release).

You then had Casey Hudson "interviewed" in house along with Mac walters in an interview that had NONE of the truly pertinent questions. Claiming that there was an "overwhelming" amount of people that did 'love' the endings.

So after you've given me a falsely advertized product, you hype the content up again, refuse to rectify the hype you've already built up, skirt away from fan questions at conventions, dismiss WORLD WIDE surveys that they advertize through twitter, Facebook, the BSN, Euro-gamer and IGN have an "in house" interview with soft ball questions and have the gall to lie practically to my face about how many people "loved" the ending? Even when they were hard wiring the extended cut content onto the Wii U versions to come with it automatically?

No. It wasn't the game that broke my trust. I could have forgiven that. I could have lived with that. Everybody makes mistakes we're all human.

It as the GROSS handling of the situation that broke my trust to the point  I won't even buy DA3 whenever it arrives. and even if the game lives up to be EVERYTHING promised (which you and I both know it will not) I wont purchase it. At best I'll borrow it. Even if I play it and LOVE it. I STILL wont Purchase it. Even if I play it Love it, and the company mannages to get through the third game without royally ****ing it up I STILL wont purchase it.

For me personally, somewhere down this road a line was crossed. And that is a very sad truth since Bioware has made several games that I play to this day.

This is actually quite interesting. One could wonder how the handling of Mass Effect 3 from a PR point of view will hamper future Bioware products. Developer statements and such will likely be taken with alot more scrutiny.

It's a good reflection of the fallout though. On the one side you have the game itself and on the other everything that happened around it. This including the public relations, game reviews, external websites chipping in etc.

[Outsider edge]

ZeCollectorDestroya wrote...

No it hasn't, people here are young gamers. Most developers make mistakes, you learn from them. Even if you make a couple of mistakes.

The only way I will lose complete trust in Bioware is if they KEEP repeating this problem. If DA3 and ME4 fail, then I will lose trust.

This i agree with. All the feedback provided now is in my opinion more aimed at future products then Mass Effect 3 itself. Too "fix" it's narrative it would require massive rewrites and retcons too make it work and that's not going too happen.

If Mass Effect 4 has the same problems with it's narrative however things will be different.

Modifié par Outsider edge, 05 janvier 2013 - 12:52 .

[clarkusdarkus]

Hi im clarkus darkus and this is my favourite thread aboard the BSN...

DA2/TOR/ME3...it's not trust, it's why the decline in quality and alot of annoyance stems from bioware's handling of the PR side of things, " dont get too attatched to a plot "... Could have said that pre-release as i would have rented and not bought it, which brings me to pre release quotes that turned out to be lies....i guess thats why some dont trust bioware after the handling of ME3....we can bore each other to death over it, ****** for tat, proof will come from sales of DA3/ME4.........i wont be buying either like resi6 i have learned from buying blindly......

[Optimus J]

[quote]Ninja Stan wrote...

Indeed. Because Sir Arthur Conan Doyle did it, everyone else must do it? I'm not really certain where you're going with this here. Sir Arthur chose to bring Holmes back due to fan feedback, yes. Other creators likely have chosen not to accede to fan demand. Neither option is a "correct" response. It's just that one of them agrees with you.
[/quote]

YES, everyone in his position must do. Or you're saying that you're superior to the creator of Sherlock Holmes? Bethesda did and it worked. In fact it worked well for everyone that made it. Instead of asking a ambiguous question, answer me this: Why Bioware doesn't want to make something that worked for everyone else?
[quote]Ninja Stan wrote...
Please quote the part of Ray's blog where he says this. Please quote the Twitter messages that prove your accusations. I don't recall anyone from BioWare ever denigrating the fans' intelligence for not liking the ending.
[/quote]
Ok, just because you said "please"
Ray Muzyka, on how we want "clarification" and "Professional got what we couldn't"
[quote]The reaction to the release of Mass Effect 3 has been unprecedented. On
one hand, some of our loyal fans are passionately expressing their
displeasure about how their game concluded; we care about this feedback,
and we’re planning to directly address it. However, most folks appear
to agree that the game as a whole is exceptional, with more than 75
critics giving it a perfect review score and a review average in the
mid-90s. Net, I’m proud of the team, but we can and must always strive
to do better.



Some of the criticism that has been delivered in the heat of passion by
our most ardent fans, even if founded on valid principles, such as
seeking more clarity to questions or looking for more closure, for
example – has unfortunately become destructive rather than constructive.
We listen and will respond to constructive criticism, but much as we
will not tolerate individual attacks on our team members, we will not
support or respond to destructive commentary.[/quote]
Again, on a press release, sign by 3 of your own, there is this declaration:
[quote]“We are all incredibly proud of Mass Effect 3 and the work done
by Casey Hudson and team,” said Dr. Ray Muzyka, Co-Founder of BioWare
and General Manager of EA’s BioWare Label. “Since launch, we have had
time to listen to the feedback from our most passionate fans and we are
responding. With the Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut we think we have
struck a good balance in delivering the answers players are looking for
while maintaining the team’s artistic vision for the end of this story
arc in the Mass Effect universe.”[/quote]
https://twitter.com/...233534146781186 - We are creating new content to clarify and add closure as per the request of many loyal fans! That's all.


I find it's weird outsiders know more of your people than people that work with Bioware. But now you know as much as us. Youre Welcome.

[quote]Ninja Stan wrote...
Again, a lot of accusations. Please provide quotes.
[/quote]
Quote provided:
[quote]"With regard to BioWare Austin, I handed off the leadership of the
studio to Matthew Bromberg quite some time ago (back in May). Ray
[Muzyka, BioWare co-founder] and I picked Matthew to take over and he's
been doing a great job with the studio.



"My time in Austin was always planned to have a finite endpoint (my
family was still living in Edmonton throughout my time in Austin) and
now that I've handed the baton to Matt, I will be able to spend more
time on a wider range of BioWare games rather than focusing on just one
as I did with SWTOR."[/quote]

By that time the resign letter already have been filled as Muzyka say HERE
[quote]After nearly two decades in videogames, I’ve decided to move on to
pursue an entirely different set of challenges. This has been an
incredibly difficult decision to make; after thinking about it for many
months, I made the decision to retire from videogames back in early
April 2012 – at that time I provided six months’ notice to EA, to help
enable a solid transition for my teams at BioWare.[/quote]

[quote]Ninja Stan wrote...[quote]By the way, point me another developer that have their representatives avoiding the public. No chats, no presence on their own boards, not even the comments open on their own blog.[/quote]Many of them. I'll turn it back on you. how many other developers participate in discussions with fans on their official boards?
[/quote]
Ever heard of Blizzard? Or even Sony?
[quote]Ninja Stan wrote...
Yes, you're very smart. Your business must be booming. You're doing a lot of yelling, Optimus J, but you're not making a heck of a lot of sense. You're blaming BioWare for so many different things, what exactly is your end goal? What is your win situation here, and how do you plan to accomplish it?
[/quote]
Accusations... accusation... Can you clarify what "lot of things"? Any of those fall off the company, as taxes, or health care, or middle-east political situation? Or every single one still on company-customer relations?
[quote]Ninja Stan wrote...
It seems that if BioWare does nothing, they are wrong, and if they do something to try and fix what's wrong, they are wrong. If they don't agree with you, they are wrong, and if they do, that proves they were wrong to begin with. Is there a way for BioWare to win with you?
[/quote]
Only for you guys, only for you. Did you read about Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and Bethesda at start?

[crimzontearz]

Also I would like to point out two things

1: there us a difference in trying and failing (Resident evil six. It had a ling dev cycle, tons of manpower, cap on tried to make the largest RE to date and really tried hard to please everyone from the fans of the original two games to the ones that demanded more action. The result was not spectacular but I APPLAUD their effort) and stubbornly thinking that the silent majority is very happy with it all while not really trying to please most people but more doing damage control and planting one's feet

2: Stan, I like your new approach but you are cherry picking

Modifié par crimzontearz, 05 janvier 2013 - 12:28 .

[Vinny]

crimzontearz wrote...
2: Stan, I like your new approach but you are cherry picking

While I disagree with Stan, at least he takes his time and he is really constructive. This part of the forum desperately needed it.
But that kind of stuff should be the job of the Community Team, not him.

[ZeCollectorDestroya]

I feel so sad for Stan, he shouldn't have to deal with complaints because he isn't the person who has anal probed the series. It's Hudson and Walters who should have to deal with it.

Some people are overreacting over 2 bad muffins in the basket of delights (Good games Bioware made.) If Bioware makes 2 more cruddy games then I can understand, I doubt Bioware will fall suspect to this problem again. They will be a lot more careful with it. Unless they like smaller paychecks.

I sound like a Bio drone.

Modifié par ZeCollectorDestroya, 05 janvier 2013 - 12:50 .

[Optimus J]

Epök wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
2: Stan, I like your new approach but you are cherry picking

While I disagree with Stan, at least he takes his time and he is really constructive. This part of the forum desperately needed it.
But that kind of stuff should be the job of the Community Team, not him.

I think they are locked out, as Bioware is closed for the Holidays. Stan is playing Macauley Culkin, with his special remote access for now.

[Vinny]

Optimus J wrote...

Epök wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
2: Stan, I like your new approach but you are cherry picking

While I disagree with Stan, at least he takes his time and he is really constructive. This part of the forum desperately needed it.
But that kind of stuff should be the job of the Community Team, not him.

I think they are locked out, as Bioware is closed for the Holidays. Stan is playing Macauley Culkin, with his special remote access for now.

Well Sylvia Feketekuty used her own account (she's a writer for BioWare and wrote Liara in ME3) to answer a few questions and reassured fans about how passionnate the team his. 
But her and the rest of the team are on holidays, I can understand. That doesn't explain why they remained silent for the last 10 months and tried everything they could to make sure it was our own damn fault if we didn't like several aspects of Me3.

[Optimus J]

Epök wrote...
Well Sylvia Feketekuty used her own account (she's a writer for BioWare and wrote Liara in ME3) to answer a few questions and reassured fans about how passionnate the team his. 
But her and the rest of the team are on holidays, I can understand. That doesn't explain why they remained silent for the last 10 months and tried everything they could to make sure it was our own damn fault if we didn't like several aspects of Me3.

That's easy to guess. We KNOW that EA's philosophy is to never admit mistakes and never let internal disagreements go transparent. It's set and EA under J.R. rule never made a secret about it.

Bioware is part of EA now, and the doctors are just looking the grass grow since April. So is pretty secure to guess they adopted their parent company philosophy. Right?

And I don't think many people got the remote access as Sylvf and Stan Leng. Anyone else could appear here beside those two?

Modifié par Optimus J, 05 janvier 2013 - 01:14 .

[JasonShepard]

I'm just jumping in here to explain how I read the press releases and quote that Optimus J has brought up. Because I certainly don't see them as supporting his argument that Bioware was insulting the fans.

Optimus J wrote...

Ninja Stan wrote...
Please quote the part of Ray's blog where he says this. Please quote the Twitter messages that prove your accusations. I don't recall anyone from BioWare ever denigrating the fans' intelligence for not liking the ending.

Ok, just because you said "please"
Ray Muzyka, on how we want "clarification" and "Professional got what we couldn't"

The reaction to the release of Mass Effect 3 has been unprecedented. On
one hand, some of our loyal fans are passionately expressing their
displeasure about how their game concluded; we care about this feedback,
and we’re planning to directly address it. However, most folks appear
to agree that the game as a whole is exceptional, with more than 75
critics giving it a perfect review score and a review average in the
mid-90s. Net, I’m proud of the team, but we can and must always strive
to do better.



Some of the criticism that has been delivered in the heat of passion by
our most ardent fans, even if founded on valid principles, such as
seeking more clarity to questions or looking for more closure, for
example – has unfortunately become destructive rather than constructive.
We listen and will respond to constructive criticism, but much as we
will not tolerate individual attacks on our team members, we will not
support or respond to destructive commentary.

So they are saying that people disliked the ending. And they are saying that a lot of people liked the game as a whole. I do not see the part where they say "You fans are just too dumb to understand the ending." The closest it gets is the "Most folks appear to agree that the game as a whole is exceptional" bit, which meshes fairly well with the (quite common) opinion that the game was great right up until the final ten minutes.

Optimus J wrote...

Again, on a press release, sign by 3 of your own, there is this declaration:

“We are all incredibly proud of Mass Effect 3 and the work done
by Casey Hudson and team,” said Dr. Ray Muzyka, Co-Founder of BioWare
and General Manager of EA’s BioWare Label. “Since launch, we have had
time to listen to the feedback from our most passionate fans and we are
responding. With the Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut we think we have
struck a good balance in delivering the answers players are looking for
while maintaining the team’s artistic vision for the end of this story
arc in the Mass Effect universe.”

https://twitter.com/masseffect/status/183233534146781186 - We are creating new content to clarify and add closure as per the request of many loyal fans! That's all.

Are we talking about the "delivering answers players are looking for" bit? Because honestly, players were asking questions and the EC did answer them. For starters, it was made clear that the galaxy wasn't wiped out by exploding Mass Relays (which was a genuine problem with interpretations of the initial ending). What I see here is a company admitting that the initial endings were not good enough. Especially since they made the EC and made it free. The Twitter statement also goes along with this. I'm really not seeing a "Fans are dumb" statement here. Could you find a quote where Bioware even says that theydo think the original endings were perfect? (And that's Bioware as a whole, so a press release, as opposed to an individual Bioware employee.)

Optimus J wrote...

Ninja Stan wrote...
Again, a lot of accusations. Please provide quotes.

Quote provided:

"With regard to BioWare Austin, I handed off the leadership of the
studio to Matthew Bromberg quite some time ago (back in May). Ray
[Muzyka, BioWare co-founder] and I picked Matthew to take over and he's
been doing a great job with the studio.

"My time in Austin was always planned to have a finite endpoint (my 
family was still living in Edmonton throughout my time in Austin) and
now that I've handed the baton to Matt, I will be able to spend more
time on a wider range of BioWare games rather than focusing on just one
as I did with SWTOR."

By that time the resign letter already have been filled as Muzyka say HERE

After nearly two decades in videogames, I’ve decided to move on to
pursue an entirely different set of challenges. This has been an
incredibly difficult decision to make; after thinking about it for many
months, [b]I made the decision to retire from videogames back in early
April 2012 – at that time I provided six months’ notice to EA, to help
enable a solid transition for my teams at BioWare.

Where does Zeschuk actually say "I'm not leaving" in that first press release? The line "spend more time on a wider range of Bioware games" suggests to me that he was wanting to end his time at Bioware by giving everything a once over. The initial press release (as I understand it - I wasn't really paying attention at the time) seems to have been written to clarify that him leaving Austin was not him leaving Bioware as a whle - which it wasn't, even if that was coming up further along the road.

[Optimus J]

Jason, it's all there. And no matter how I explain, you will still be cherry picking. So, why bother?
EDIT: So, You see your way, I see my way. Everyone see their own way, and Omega DLC still under ME2 Appearance pack on XBOX Marketplace meanwhile.

It's been a year this way, in every front. So OK, keep avoiding the question "If it works for EVERYONE ELSE, why Bioware insist in not doing the same?"

Modifié par Optimus J, 05 janvier 2013 - 01:23 .

[TheRealJayDee]

Epök wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
2: Stan, I like your new approach but you are cherry picking

While I disagree with Stan, at least he takes his time and he is really constructive. This part of the forum desperately needed it.
But that kind of stuff should be the job of the Community Team, not him.

That's the thing: it's great of him to come here and talk with us, I honestly appreciate it and I think he's a really nice guy and his post can be very informative about the procceses involved in making a game. But in the end it's kind of the same as before - what good does it bring? He can't really do anything about the major problems some of us have. Imo by far the most constructive and sincere looking attempts here on the ME3 section of the BSN (other than multiplayer stuff) at communicating with us about what went wrong came pretty late and not from the ME team or even the community managers but from 1) Allan Schumacher, a dev from the DA team hanging out with us in his spare time and 2) Stan, who doesn't even work at Bioware anymore and just moderates the forums because he likes it here (fool! ^^). It shouldn't be this way, I believe.

ld1449 wrote...

No.

Truth be told. Its not just Mass Effect 3's disasterous ending that broke my trust. It was more Bioware's response to it.

And sure you Stan can preach up and down that we the fans don't know the whole process, don't realize this or that going on behind closed doors and all the factors that come in to the decisions and thus can't get the full picture.

Well whoop-dee-doo.

That still doesn't change a very simple truth, that when this game went gold we were flat out lied to. I know that the rachni promise came no earlier than December, four months before the game went out. Casey Hudson's promise on the endings and how widely varried they were came out in january.

I don't know what happened behind closed doors, I don't know the factors for decisions made I don't have the full picture.

And quite frankly, I don't care because 1 I'm never going to have that full picture, and 2 there was never any sort of apology for these statements after the game went GOLD. I don't expect every promise even in the alpha stage of development to be carried through and to be apologized to when it falls out for whatever reason but after the game goes Gold with just 3 months before the release is inexcusable.

Then during the three months before the extended cut release you have Chris Priestly doing polls on "do you believe in the Indoc. Theory" not doing anything to rectify people getting their hopes up for the IT. Not even a statement at the begining. 

Another point where someone at Comic Conwas saying Gameplay elements are "most likely" going to be featured.

They screened questions at Comic Con

You have Merizian advertizing a world wide survey done by German fans on the ending only to discard the results which showed an overwhelming negativity/desire to cut the ending out, later when they supposedly didn't match up their own results (which they refused to release).

You then had Casey Hudson "interviewed" in house along with Mac walters in an interview that had NONE of the truly pertinent questions. Claiming that there was an "overwhelming" amount of people that did 'love' the endings.

So after you've given me a falsely advertized product, you hype the content up again, refuse to rectify the hype you've already built up, skirt away from fan questions at conventions, dismiss WORLD WIDE surveys that they advertize through twitter, Facebook, the BSN, Euro-gamer and IGN have an "in house" interview with soft ball questions and have the gall to lie practically to my face about how many people "loved" the ending? Even when they were hard wiring the extended cut content onto the Wii U versions to come with it automatically?

No. It wasn't the game that broke my trust. I could have forgiven that. I could have lived with that. Everybody makes mistakes we're all human.

It as the GROSS handling of the situation that broke my trust to the point  I won't even buy DA3 whenever it arrives. and even if the game lives up to be EVERYTHING promised (which you and I both know it will not) I wont purchase it. At best I'll borrow it. Even if I play it and LOVE it. I STILL wont Purchase it. Even if I play it Love it, and the company mannages to get through the third game without royally ****ing it up I STILL wont purchase it.

For me personally, somewhere down this road a line was crossed. And that is a very sad truth since Bioware has made several games that I play to this day.

Amazing post, very thoroughly describes the "not-in-the-game" lapses. Worthy of some kind of a Bioware response...

Ninja Stan wrote...

txgoldrush, your comments and arguments are becoming increasingly hostile. Please tone it down.

And people - just don't respond to him!

[Forsythia]

I don't like the ending, have some issues with the game and in general do not really like the direction BioWare has been going the last few years. But I'll give credit where credit is due and still think they can create great games, they have proven that to me with the singleplayer DLCs we got after the EC.

Also looking forward to DA3, as I actually really liked DA2, despite its flaws.

[TheGreatDayne]

Nah... I've only known Bioware for... 2 years, I think? So far, the games I bought from them involved saving the place the protagonist lives in... I HATE those kinds of stories. It gets old, fast. The characters they create are interesting, though (sans player character). That is what made me want to try out their other games... Too bad I don't own the proper platform to try out most of them. Oh well.

[JasonShepard]

Optimus J wrote...

Jason, it's all there. And no matter how I explain, you will still be cherry picking. So, why bother?

Fine. Then let me make my point in a slightly different way.

You feel that, as a loyal Bioware fan, Bioware has insulted you. I understand this. I can even understand you interpreting some of their statements as saying something to the effect of "You were not intelligent enough to understand our ending!"

However, I am also a loyal fan, and I don't feel insulted. I'm also of the strong opinion that Bioware never said, nor believed, that their loyal fans, who had played through the entire series and devoured the lore and themes of the games, were simply 'too dumb' to understand the ending.
So I'm looking at those statements and telling you how I think they were meant. Telling you that I think, in my honest opinion, that you are making something out of nothing. Yes, some of Bioware's statements may have been ambiguous, or could be interpreted (based on the focus on clarification rather than change) as meaning that their fans just hadn't understood the vision, but they didn't mean that you were dumb. They didn't believe that you were dumb (neither do I for that matter).

The EC was an admission that the original ending didn't explain enough, and didn't do enough to convey the ending that Bioware wanted to convey. It wasn't a case of "You didn't understand" it was a case of "we (Bioware) didn't give you enough to let you understand".

EDIT: Seeing your edit - agree to disagree perhaps? 

Modifié par JasonShepard, 05 janvier 2013 - 01:32 .

[Xx_Belzak_xX]

I shouldn't be surprised by what Bioware has become. Really. Every gaming company that becomes as successful as Bioware and EA eventually forget that we the fans MADE THEM. They become so successful, that they become arrogant, viewing their customers as little more than pawns to be tossed aside as they see fit. The responses and actions Bioware has taken this last year are truly abhorrent. At this point, they are no better than EA.

I used to love Bioware, just as I used to love Square Soft/Enix, Capcom, etc, etc. But after this last year, I feel comfortable to say this; I will thoroughly enjoy watching both EA and Bioware crash and burn. Unless they turn their acts around, that is their eventual destination; an impact crater in a firey explosion. When you **** on the people who practically made you, you deserve to fail.

[Keatstwo]

Nope. I wasn't a big fan of the way the game ended pre-EC but given the enjoyment I got out of the game I'd still be just as likely to preorder future games. ME3 wasn't perfect, granted, but it's by far the most emotionally involving game I've ever played and that counts for something.

After they produced the EC for free my opinion of them is, if anything, higher than pre-ME3. Yes, some of the pre-release promises were overambitious but that's the nature of hype. Some of the responses to fan concerns may have been a bit snarky at times too but you can't blame them for being a little upset with people trying to tear down their work. Let's not even get started on people sending Bioware employees personal abuse (and worse).

[crimzontearz]

Ok another clarification

By cherry picking I mean that he is picking the posts to reply to...some of the better written posts with very elaborate and to the point critiques are being left untouched. not calling him out juat saying

Secondly, his posts can be informative but there are some discrepancies with other info I acquired that leave an Ipse Dixit scenario impossible to accept (again with all due respect)

Modifié par crimzontearz, 05 janvier 2013 - 01:43 .

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Now, to be fair, no one is forcing anyone to play anything now, ten months after release. I understand why a minority is so disappointed, but to be quite honest, I think it might be time to move on. There's a lot of good RPGs out there at the moment you could all try out, in my opinion.

I'm not telling that this is what you should do, I'm simply trying to help you all, and to be fair, I think that's pretty noble of me. If any of you wants to talk about the ending, you can always send me a PM. I'm fair and balanced, so if you want to talk, hit me up.

In my opinion.

[Vinny]

Optimus J wrote...

Epök wrote...
Well Sylvia Feketekuty used her own account (she's a writer for BioWare and wrote Liara in ME3) to answer a few questions and reassured fans about how passionnate the team his. 
But her and the rest of the team are on holidays, I can understand. That doesn't explain why they remained silent for the last 10 months and tried everything they could to make sure it was our own damn fault if we didn't like several aspects of Me3.

That's easy to guess. We KNOW that EA's philosophy is to never admit mistakes and never let internal disagreements go transparent. It's set and EA under J.R. rule never made a secret about it.

Bioware is part of EA now, and the doctors are just looking the grass grow since April. So is pretty secure to guess they adopted their parent company philosophy. Right?

And I don't think many people got the remote access as Sylvf and Stan Leng. Anyone else could appear here beside those two?

I assume you're talking about the ending. A development is never easy, you'll always have someone to voice his opinion in the team, and I'm sure that kind of stuff happened during ME3's development.
It's no secret that there's been a lot of debate inside the team regarding the ending, it's no secret that some of them never really liked it (but never took the risk to acknowledge it in public). But EA doesn't really care, they're the elephant in the room. When they realized that the outcry could hurt the sales, they didn't even try to understand. They released the Extended Cut to stop the bleeding and thought it wouldn't hurt the sales of the DLC's.

Except 2 things :
1. The Extended Cut required a lot of work in term of logic and programming, but not development. Casey claimed that it was "quite a challenge to fit in the 2GB limit from Microsoft", when it was barely compressed.
2. The sales for the DLCs are a disaster. Leviathan is way behind From Ashes, and the first appearance pack did better than Omega.

All in all, I guess you're right. They didn't take the time to listen and, most of all, I don't even know what they think about preserving the integrity of their own franchise. How many times did we read (here on the BSN, on Twitter, or on other forums) that their ending nullified the rest of the franchise?
Even if these guys (myself included) represent 30/40% of your fanbase, it's already massive.

[crimzontearz]

Epök wrote...

Optimus J wrote...

Epök wrote...
Well Sylvia Feketekuty used her own account (she's a writer for BioWare and wrote Liara in ME3) to answer a few questions and reassured fans about how passionnate the team his. 
But her and the rest of the team are on holidays, I can understand. That doesn't explain why they remained silent for the last 10 months and tried everything they could to make sure it was our own damn fault if we didn't like several aspects of Me3.

That's easy to guess. We KNOW that EA's philosophy is to never admit mistakes and never let internal disagreements go transparent. It's set and EA under J.R. rule never made a secret about it.

Bioware is part of EA now, and the doctors are just looking the grass grow since April. So is pretty secure to guess they adopted their parent company philosophy. Right?

And I don't think many people got the remote access as Sylvf and Stan Leng. Anyone else could appear here beside those two?

I assume you're talking about the ending. A development is never easy, you'll always have someone to voice his opinion in the team, and I'm sure that kind of stuff happened during ME3's development.
It's no secret that there's been a lot of debate inside the team regarding the ending, it's no secret that some of them never really liked it (but never took the risk to acknowledge it in public). But EA doesn't really care, they're the elephant in the room. When they realized that the outcry could hurt the sales, they didn't even try to understand. They released the Extended Cut to stop the bleeding and thought it wouldn't hurt the sales of the DLC's.

Except 2 things :
1. The Extended Cut required a lot of work in term of logic and programming, but not development. Casey claimed that it was "quite a challenge to fit in the 2GB limit from Microsoft", when it was barely compressed.
2. The sales for the DLCs are a disaster. Leviathan is way behind From Ashes, and the first appearance pack did better than Omega.

All in all, I guess you're right. They didn't take the time to listen and, most of all, I don't even know what they think about preserving the integrity of their own franchise. How many times did we read (here on the BSN, on Twitter, or on other forums) that their ending nullified the rest of the franchise?
Even if these guys (myself included) represent 30/40% of your fanbase, it's already massive.

 
Actually according to a GI interview EVERYBODY at Bioware played the original ending and were fine with it.


 
which I know for a FACT to be either a flat out lie or a lie of misdirection depending on how you interpret it (yes I can back my statement up, I did so in another thread about said interview)

Modifié par crimzontearz, 05 janvier 2013 - 01:49 .

[Vinny]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Epök wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
2: Stan, I like your new approach but you are cherry picking

While I disagree with Stan, at least he takes his time and he is really constructive. This part of the forum desperately needed it.
But that kind of stuff should be the job of the Community Team, not him.

That's the thing: it's great of him to come here and talk with us, I honestly appreciate it and I think he's a really nice guy and his post can be very informative about the procceses involved in making a game. But in the end it's kind of the same as before - what good does it bring? He can't really do anything about the major problems some of us have. Imo by far the most constructive and sincere looking attempts here on the ME3 section of the BSN (other than multiplayer stuff) at communicating with us about what went wrong came pretty late and not from the ME team or even the community managers but from 1) Allan Schumacher, a dev from the DA team hanging out with us in his spare time and 2) Stan, who doesn't even work at Bioware anymore and just moderates the forums because he likes it here (fool! ^^). It shouldn't be this way, I believe. 

I know it won't help, but that's a start. The lack of communication beetwen the fanbase and the community team is not good at all. I know they don't want to answer for now, but at some point, they'll have to. It's this, or they'll lose their fanbase (or what's left of it)
Besides, Stan provides some insight regarding game development. So yeah, I'll take it. For now. 

@ Crimzontearz :
Oh don't worry, I believe you. A development is never easy and in this case, it is clear that there's been a lot of debate inside the team. 

Modifié par Epök, 05 janvier 2013 - 01:58 .