599 réponses à ce sujet

[Femlob]

crimzontearz wrote...

Do not say that Femlob. It will earn you a ban

I get banned about twice a week; what else is new.

[crimzontearz]

Yes but getting banned because you wish cause and effect to take place (as it is considered I'll wishing) is just insulting (yes I pulled a Kal'Reeger)

[Xellith]

Kal Reegar.. dont even get me started..

[HiddenInWar]

[spam post removed]

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 06 janvier 2013 - 06:29 .

[Verit]

Saying my faith in Bioware was "destroyed" would be putting it mildly. More than the game itself, it's the way Bioware handled the entire ending debacle that made me lose all faith in them. What it comes down to is that Mass Effect was basically my favorite franchise of the past ten years and it's been completely obliterated. I honestly regret having played the games as much as I did, and all I can see when I look back at the games is the complete nonsense that concluded the story. Couple that with a bunch of lies, backtracking and more than questionable DLC practices that I refuse to suport and well, you get the idea.

EDIT: ld1449 said it very well. Honestly, I think most people are tired of having to repeat their reasons for losing their faith in Bioware. If Bioware doesn't understand what they did was not acceptable, they never will. I could start to write entire pages of everything Bioware did wrong with Mass Effect 3 and everything around it, but I'm just tired of it.

Modifié par -Draikin-, 05 janvier 2013 - 06:20 .

[crimzontearz]

Xellith wrote...

Kal Reegar.. dont even get me started..

what? I am told his death scene was masterfully handled

[crowi83]

Yes. Never buying a game from Bioware, which I think is already dead after losing so much core staff over SWTOR failure. The only EA/EAWare game I'd buy is NHL_X once every 3 years.

Already removed Origin, along with the entire ME series and BF3 like 6 months ago. I won't reinstall that, even for ME4, even less for their shoddy, pointless DLC. Suck it.

The ME3 team that's left, can choke on their "artistic integrity" for all I care. I won't be sorry when they get fired, infact, I'd welcome it.

Modifié par crowi83, 05 janvier 2013 - 06:22 .

[Brovikk Rasputin]

crowi83 wrote...

Yes. Never buying a game from Bioware, which I think is already dead after losing so much core staff over SWTOR failure. The only EA/EAWare game I'd buy is NHL_X once every 3 years.

Already removed Origin, along with the entire ME series and BF3 like 6 months ago. I won't reinstall that, even for ME4, even less for their shoddy, pointless DLC. Suck it.

The ME3 team that's left, can choke on their "artistic integrity" for all I care. I won't be sorry when they get fired, infact, I'd welcome it.

Alright... Why are you here then?

I hope you get banned. That last part of your post was the most disgusting thing I've read on here for quite some time.

[crimzontearz]

Paulomedi wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Xellith wrote...

Kal Reegar.. dont even get me started..

what? I am told his death scene was masterfully handled

like Emily Wong assassination?

you mean Kelly's....Emily committed suicide

[crowi83]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

crowi83 wrote...

Yes. Never buying a game from Bioware, which I think is already dead after losing so much core staff over SWTOR failure. The only EA/EAWare game I'd buy is NHL_X once every 3 years.

Already removed Origin, along with the entire ME series and BF3 like 6 months ago. I won't reinstall that, even for ME4, even less for their shoddy, pointless DLC. Suck it.

The ME3 team that's left, can choke on their "artistic integrity" for all I care. I won't be sorry when they get fired, infact, I'd welcome it.

Alright... Why are you here then?

I hope you get banned. That last part of your post was the most disgusting thing I've read on here for quite some time.

Why am I here? To answer the question in the OP. Too bad for you (I guess), that you don't like that answer.

PS. The care-level of being banned here is less than zero. Bioware is already dead, I don't care about their future games, I don't care about my account, I don't care about them. I don't care what you think, I posted my OPINION.

BW can ban me (even further proving me to not buy from them), you can cry to them to ban me, you can complain about my post, that was on-topic all you want. It doesn't change my views.

Isn't attacking another poster and going off-topic also bannable here? Probably not, if you're a devout follower, but for others I bet it is.

Modifié par crowi83, 05 janvier 2013 - 07:17 .

[99DP1982]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

Mass Effect 3 completed the process that Mass Effect 2 began, I'm very unlikely to ever buy a Bioware product again.

This kinda leads to another question that I'm reticent to ask, but it's related:

This kind of sentiment is brought up quite a bit, and more power to you for doing so. But for people who claim to be huge fans who had faith in the company and trusted them to release product that you wouldn't be disappointed in, sometimes all it takes is one bad product to make you change your mind.

I know I won't get a complete answer right now, but if the next Mass Effect game does what the marketing claims, is as good as the hype says it is, receives many top marks, and is said by fans to be pretty darn good, would that be enough to change your mind and restore that trust you once had? Would ME3 (and maybe DA2, if you lean that way) then be seen as statistical anomalies in BioWare's gameography, or has the trust been well and truly severed and each good, worthy game becomes but a stepping stone to restoring that faith?

BIG IF, if you ask me, but assuming it would be that case, I most likely would buy a product, then bought DLCs to it. Next title, would probably still be under "wait and see" category, but two golds would mean I am back to pre-orders of the editions with extra stuff...

[MyAwesomeAfro]

So the consensus opinion is that Biowares response was the nail in the coffin?

[The Spamming Troll]

well this thread surely makes me sad that ill never play a game like ME1 ever again.

[Femlob]

crimzontearz wrote...

Yes but getting banned because you wish cause and effect to take place (as it is considered I'll wishing) is just insulting (yes I pulled a Kal'Reeger)

Not a wish; merely a recommendation.

[silverexile17s]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

crowi83 wrote...

Yes. Never buying a game from Bioware, which I think is already dead after losing so much core staff over SWTOR failure. The only EA/EAWare game I'd buy is NHL_X once every 3 years.

Already removed Origin, along with the entire ME series and BF3 like 6 months ago. I won't reinstall that, even for ME4, even less for their shoddy, pointless DLC. Suck it.

The ME3 team that's left, can choke on their "artistic integrity" for all I care. I won't be sorry when they get fired, infact, I'd welcome it.

Alright... Why are you here then?

I hope you get banned. That last part of your post was the most disgusting thing I've read on here for quite some time.

That's not going to fix anything. Either debate peacefully, or agree to disagree. Don't start an arguement that's going to lock the thread.

[Iakus]

MyAwesomeAfro wrote...

So the consensus opinion is that Biowares response was the nail in the coffin?

Not necessarilly the final nail.  But a big one, that's gonna be hard to pry out again.

[Raizo]

Very much so although in all fairness Dragon Age 2 did it's fair share of damage as well.

[Iakus]

crowi83 wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

crowi83 wrote...

Yes. Never buying a game from Bioware, which I think is already dead after losing so much core staff over SWTOR failure. The only EA/EAWare game I'd buy is NHL_X once every 3 years.

Already removed Origin, along with the entire ME series and BF3 like 6 months ago. I won't reinstall that, even for ME4, even less for their shoddy, pointless DLC. Suck it.

The ME3 team that's left, can choke on their "artistic integrity" for all I care. I won't be sorry when they get fired, infact, I'd welcome it.

Alright... Why are you here then?

I hope you get banned. That last part of your post was the most disgusting thing I've read on here for quite some time.

Why am I here? To answer the question in the OP. Too bad for you (I guess), that you don't like that answer.

PS. The care-level of being banned here is less than zero. Bioware is already dead, I don't care about their future games, I don't care about my account, I don't care about them. I don't care what you think, I posted my OPINION.

BW can ban me (even further proving me to not buy from them), you can cry to them to ban me, you can complain about my post, that was on-topic all you want. It doesn't change my views.

Isn't attacking another poster and going off-topic also bannable here? Probably not, if you're a devout follower, but for others I bet it is.

Dude.  Don't tarnish our position by sinking to their level.  Be better than him, so others can see his immaturity for what it is.

[clarkusdarkus]

Paulomedi wrote...

drayfish wrote...

Ninja Stan wrote...

This kinda leads to another question that I'm reticent to ask, but it's related:

This kind of sentiment is brought up quite a bit, and more power to you for doing so. But for people who claim to be huge fans who had faith in the company and trusted them to release product that you wouldn't be disappointed in, sometimes all it takes is one bad product to make you change your mind.

I know I won't get a complete answer right now, but if the next Mass Effect game does what the marketing claims, is as good as the hype says it is, receives many top marks, and is said by fans to be pretty darn good, would that be enough to change your mind and restore that trust you once had? Would ME3 (and maybe DA2, if you lean that way) then be seen as statistical anomalies in BioWare's gameography, or has the trust been well and truly severed and each good, worthy game becomes but a stepping stone to restoring that faith?

@Ninja Stan's several questions:

Considering the substantial, and rather worrying cognitive dissonance many fans (myself included) perceived between the numerous pre-release promises and what was actually delivered; considering the disparity between the near-universally gushing review scores and what actually appeared in the game (the bugs, the narrative railroading, the utterly required multiplayer despite repeated assurances to the contrary, and the muddled, obscure ending – almost none of which was addressed in reviewer analysis); and taking into account the near industry-wide condemnation of any fans who dared voice their displeasure at the game; I would argue that the confidence you place in any future alignment between the press and customer satisfaction is a little fantastical. 

I have many issues with Bioware and Mass Effect 3 (which I will get to in a moment), but a good deal of other worrying issues extend into the 'games journalism' field itself, and the uncomfortable relationship that developers such as Bioware have with those people who should be holding publishers to greater account. The fact that your equation for future player satisfaction still relies upon some alignment between review scores and player experience, without anyone actually bothering to examine and correct what created such a glaring discrepancy this time around, suggests that very little – if indeed nothing – has been learned from this experience.

As for Bioware itself, although I am not sure I would categorise the sensation as the 'destruction' of some blind 'trust' I had in the company (they are, after all, a business, and I a consumer), what I did have faith in was a certain standard of product – both mechanically and narratively. Previous to ME3, every Bioware game I had played impressed me as a work of depth and expanse. Characters were well-rounded, plots (for the limitations of an RPG structure) were branching and surprising, design and programming were impeccable, all of which created an immersive world that the player could invest in. From the freedom to explore of ME1, to the multiplicity of choice and backstory and endgame in Dragon Age: Origins, to the depth of character and emotional resonance of ME2. There seemed to be a ratio of developer care to player investment that always suggested this was a team that would not cynically rush a product to market.

And so, what rather shocked me at first about ME3 was the lack of polish. 

As I said, one of the traits of Bioware games I had put faith in was a level of presentational and structural finesse.  It probably goes without saying at this point that I had (and have) not played Dragon Age 2 – so when I started ME3, the animation glitches, face import failure, and frequent dismissals of major choices from the previous games rather took me by surprise. It struck me as the kind of rushed work I attributed to other developers – not Bioware.

That the game was suddenly dismissing major decisions from the previous games (who was councillor; the death of the Racchni; the Collector Base; Shepard's entire character backstory, etc), a central component of the RPG elements continuously touted by Bioware to be at the centre of this experience for half a decade; that the game was suddenly dictating who the character of Shepard was to me, contrary to my personal input (she cares so much about 'random kid in the universe' that she will be haunted by him in naff dreams; she loved Kaiden and lamented his death, apparently); that the game severely truncated the speech options and had whole swaths of uninterrupted auto-dialogue; that it stripped away legitimate side-missions in favour of obscure, unfulfilling fetch-quests and a wholly linear narrative with little to no variation in level progression – all indicated that this game operated very differently from those that had come before it. Indeed, this was so evident that despite the frequent narrative call-backs presented, it was difficult to align this with the two games that had preceded it; with the exceptions of the Genophage arc and a good portion of the Rannoch missions, this entry seemed streamlined and narrowed to the point of losing all of the qualities that define a reactive, immersive Mass Effect experience entirely.  (That there was an 'Action mode' only cemented this feeling further.)

But all of this only disappointed me. What horrified me was the ending. 

And I am not talking about the cut corners, the deus ex machina, the illogical narrative leaps that needed to be spackled over in the EC, or the ham-fistedly on the nose religious metaphor of Shepard's sacrifice. I am talking about the moment in which it was made clear that Bioware – I presume in some misguided attempt to load an artless gravitas into the final decision tree – advocated the application of either an act of genocide, eugenic purgation, or becoming a totalitarian god. 

And it is not enough to argue, as some people have, that 'the player did not have to do any of those things – they were choices', because the game was engineered so that it could only be completed if one of those choices was made. The conflict of the entire Mass Effect sage has been about racial conflict – metaphorically presented in the violence between synthetic and organic – and the only way to end it is to employ one of three war crimes. There is no way to work together, no way to have faith in your fellow allies, no way to talk the enemy of the game down from their intolerant hate-screed. You just have to do what they ask: exterminate a race of beings because their lives are worth less than yours; ascend to the arrogant position of an unstoppably dictatorial monster; or mutate every life in the universe to have the same DNA - because that's the only way to 'peace'.

Bioware decided to use their trilogy to send a nihilistic message about to futility of struggle and hope: you can't win by believing in stupid things like diversity and inclusivity. War can only be overcome by being the one to employ the war crime for your agenda (whatever that might be). Bigotry can only be overcome by forcing your will upon others: wiping them out, forcing them to get along, or violating them to become all genetically the same.

I have literally never seen a more horrifying message offered by a piece of popular entertainment in my life. And the fact that Bioware not only published such a hateful world-view in their fiction (perverting an otherwise hopeful and wondrous narrative in the process), but then after the fact became so aggressively protective of it – announcing themselves bewildered that fans could not appreciate their cynical vision and conceding only to expand the point they had made without explanation or compromise, has led me to believe that either Bioware is so blinded by hubris that they are incapable of actually taking responsibility for the implications of their fiction, or truly do have a vision of the world that stands fundamentally and profoundly opposed to my own. 

Either way though, it is near impossible to see that gaping fissure being overcome by a few good reviews from fans and press next time (they were hardly indicative this time around anyway). To me the company Bioware is either narcissistically blind or so filled with a need to spout angsty, intolerant drivel, that their future texts will ultimately have little I want to engage with to say anyway.

Quoting one of the most important posts in this thread. A must read for newcomers.

[Iakus]

Raizo wrote...

Very much so although in all fairness Dragon Age 2 did it's fair share of damage as well.

I'm keeping an eye on DA3 just to see if DA2 was really just a case of insufficient resources and an impossible deadline. 

ME3 has no such excuse, though.