599 réponses à ce sujet

[Jadebaby]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

MyAwesomeAfro wrote...

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Bioware was already becoming a joke before I even got into the series.

When was that?

Febuary-March 2012, after DA2 and TOR and during the ME3 ruckus.

You said it as if you'd been around forever. I think this is the time people are talking about regardless.

[Ryoten]

Yes, but their attitude after both DA2 and now ME3 has lost my trust more.

[txgoldrush]

Wow.....this shows the hypocrisy of Bioware fans.

Face it......Bioware was once a company viewed as unable to do anything wrong...however, they did plenty wrong and had major flaws. This includes a game such as Baldur's Gate II. And now Bioware can do no right, but the fact is that the characters have been more multidimensional, the imagination has never been more apparant, the writing has never been more mature, and the choices never mattered more.

Seriously, yes, Baldur's Gate II was good, but is the story really better than Planescape Torment? Is Minsc a better character than Morte? Would BGII even be half the game it is without Jon Irenicus? There is quite a bit of nostalgia masking the flaws here, nevermind a serious plothole in Throne of Bhaal.

Neverwinter Nights? Was the game that good? The story sucked, its the worst Bioware story they have ever done, or is teh fanbase forgetting.

KOTOR. If it wasn't for the Star Wars liscence and the Revan plot twist, would th egame stand on its own? Would it have been that memorable? Can you really say its better than the sequel in its fully restored state both writing wise and gameplay wise? No you can't. KOTOR was a product of its time, and that masks the flaws it has. Consider it the FFVII of the Western RPG.

Jade Empire, great atmosphere, fundamentally flawed philosophically and narratively.

Dragon Age Origins? Really, so a game that basically as derivative and so unoriginal is that good? A game that lacks focus in its plot, sidelines its characters from the plot, and basically plays like a weaker version of FFXII combat wise that good?

And before ME3, when did Bioware really offer true choice and consquence that wasn't Messiah vs The Devil? Except for DAO, which choices only really matter in the end, what Bioware made choices other than the big one matter truly outside morality points? At least ME3 had delayed cosnquences that affect you later, both in ME3 and from past games. So if you are a bioware fan of the past, criticizing ME3 for how it handles choice is hypocritical because no Bioware game does it better since BGII.

And really was Drew K even that great of a writer.....his handling of Revan before he left Bioware proves that really, he wasn't that good of a writer.

[o Ventus]

Zenor wrote...

MyAwesomeAfro wrote...

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Bioware was already becoming a joke before I even got into the series.

When was that?

To a good amount of people ME2, The Sonic RPG, DA:O dlc, DA2, no more KOTOR, and such made them a joke.

ME2 was a good game. The Sonic RPGs were... Not as bad as one would initially think (not great, but not total garbage). Aside from Awakening, I haven't really encountered any complaining about DAO DLCs. DA2 is a tough one. It does some things better than DAO, some worse. I understand the backlash though. I was never big into Star Wars, and thus never played any of the KOTORs or TOR.

[Mello]

I don't think it's Bioware, I think it's more of EA (Not saying that Bioware is innocent)
But after SWTOR and Dragon Age 2, I had a feeling that Bioware was slowly slipping away then BAM! Mass Effect 3.

[txgoldrush]

o Ventus wrote...

Zenor wrote...

MyAwesomeAfro wrote...

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Bioware was already becoming a joke before I even got into the series.

When was that?

To a good amount of people ME2, The Sonic RPG, DA:O dlc, DA2, no more KOTOR, and such made them a joke.

ME2 was a good game. The Sonic RPGs were... Not as bad as one would initially think (not great, but not total garbage). Aside from Awakening, I haven't really encountered any complaining about DAO DLCs. DA2 is a tough one. It does some things better than DAO, some worse. I understand the backlash though. I was never big into Star Wars, and thus never played any of the KOTORs or TOR.

Outside of Leliana's Song.....DAO DLCs were pure puke...

Return to Ostagar was a joke, Darkspawn Chronicles was a ridicoulous waste of money, and Witch Hunt is a joke of epic porportions...all while foreshaodwing the recycling of environments DA2 was going to do.

Nevermind Leliana's Song exposes the major flaw of DAO's characters...that they were underdeveloped, and their development was all tell, no show....because they were divorced from the plot.

[Ryoten]

Ninja Stan wrote...

I may regret this, but can I ask:

What kind of "trust" did you have in BioWare before ME3?

What did i think of Bioware before ME3?  Well to answer this im going to have to go farther back to before DA2.


I use to think of BioWare as one of the best companies out there next to Blizzard Entertainment.  They had a amazing track record and made games that has such quality, that when the credits rolled, i would reflect on what i just played and would think to myself, "wow...".  ME2 i thought was so amazing, i sat their at the end of the game watching the credits and listening to "the suicide mission", and i literally could not believe i just played the amazing game that i thought i just played.  I told a friend of mine, in fact, that ME2 was better than sex.

I had enough faith in the company to where i pre-ordered DA2 and ME3 collectors edition.  DA2 was no wheres near what i expected and it sadened me.  The rude replies from Mike Laidlaw made me sware off the DA franchise.  However i believed in BioWare enough to where they would not disappoint me with ME3.  For the most part, i was fine with ME3.  But when that ending happened, and then BioWares passive-aggressive response which made it feel like it was the communities fault for the bad ending, i was angry.

And i dont believe for a minute that the ending to ME3 was planned.  Because to this day when i play it, it was like the story just nose dived in quality towards the end.  And it was so apprent and noticable.  Like an entirely different writing team wrote the ending for ME3. 

[txgoldrush]

iPoohCupCakes wrote...

I don't think it's Bioware, I think it's more of EA (Not saying that Bioware is innocent)
But after SWTOR and Dragon Age 2, I had a feeling that Bioware was slowly slipping away then BAM! Mass Effect 3.

And yet ME3 has over 70 perfect scores and over 20 GOTY awards including Game Informer, and was a sure nomination in most places.

Hell, it picked up reader awards and nearly beat Far Cry 3 on Gamespot, while winning reader's choice at Gamesradar and Escapist.

[o Ventus]

txgoldrush wrote...

Outside of Leliana's Song.....DAO DLCs were pure puke...

Return to Ostagar was a joke, Darkspawn Chronicles was a ridicoulous waste of money, and Witch Hunt is a joke of epic porportions...all while foreshaodwing the recycling of environments DA2 was going to do.

Nevermind Leliana's Song exposes the major flaw of DAO's characters...that they were underdeveloped, and their development was all tell, no show....because they were divorced from the plot.

So basically:

-It's bad
-It's bad
-It's bad, and
-It's bad

Welp, thanks for sharing absolutely nothing. And what exactly is wrong with Witch Hunt? It's a DLC tailored for Morrigan, and it delivered what it promised (more so because Morrigan is my Warden's canon romance). You also forgot about Warden's Keep and Amgarrak.

[txgoldrush]

Ryoten wrote...

Ninja Stan wrote...

I may regret this, but can I ask:

What kind of "trust" did you have in BioWare before ME3?

What did i think of Bioware before ME3?  Well to answer this im going to have to go farther back to before DA2.


I use to think of BioWare as one of the best companies out there next to Blizzard Entertainment.  They had a amazing track record and made games that has such quality, that when the credits rolled, i would reflect on what i just played and would think to myself, "wow...".  ME2 i thought was so amazing, i sat their at the end of the game watching the credits and listening to "the suicide mission", and i literally could not believe i just played the amazing game that i thought i just played.  I told a friend of mine, in fact, that ME2 was better than sex.

I had enough faith in the company to where i pre-ordered DA2 and ME3 collectors edition.  DA2 was no wheres near what i expected and it sadened me.  The rude replies from Mike Laidlaw made me sware off the DA franchise.  However i believed in BioWare enough to where they would not disappoint me with ME3.  For the most part, i was fine with ME3.  But when that ending happened, and then BioWares passive-aggressive response which made it feel like it was the communities fault for the bad ending, i was angry.

And i dont believe for a minute that the ending to ME3 was planned.  Because to this day when i play it, it was like the story just nose dived in quality towards the end.  And it was so apprent and noticable.  Like an entirely different writing team wrote the ending for ME3. 

No, from the leaks, the ending was planned and the leaks showed a very similiar script to the original at first release ME3 ending.

And really, Bioware was not the only company that overpromised its ending recently and had to enhance it......CD Projeckt committed the same error as well. Fallout 3 and Bioshock still won acclaim despite their poor endings.

[txgoldrush]

o Ventus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Outside of Leliana's Song.....DAO DLCs were pure puke...

Return to Ostagar was a joke, Darkspawn Chronicles was a ridicoulous waste of money, and Witch Hunt is a joke of epic porportions...all while foreshaodwing the recycling of environments DA2 was going to do.

Nevermind Leliana's Song exposes the major flaw of DAO's characters...that they were underdeveloped, and their development was all tell, no show....because they were divorced from the plot.

So basically:

-It's bad
-It's bad
-It's bad, and
-It's bad

Welp, thanks for sharing absolutely nothing. And what exactly is wrong with Witch Hunt? It's a DLC tailored for Morrigan, and it delivered what it promised (more so because Morrigan is my Warden's canon romance). You also forgot about Warden's Keep and Amgarrak.

So you'd pay 7 to 10 bucks of a one hour DLC that recycled environments from DAO?

[o Ventus]

txgoldrush wrote...

And really, Bioware was not the only company that overpromised its ending recently and had to enhance it......CD Projeckt committed the same error as well. Fallout 3 and Bioshock still won acclaim despite their poor endings.

Except Bethesda redid Fallout's ending, as well as added post-ending content and raised the level cap. I haven't seen any outcry about BioShock's endings.

[o Ventus]

txgoldrush wrote...

So you'd pay 7 to 10 bucks of a one hour DLC that recycled environments from DAO?

If I was given the content I was advertised, and I enjoyed it, then yes. Yes I would.

If recycled environments is your biggest point, then I strongly suggest you stop making these complaints.

[Sulious Vandomar]

A bit. It was Bioware's reaction to the fan outcry that destroyed it completely.

[txgoldrush]

o Ventus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

And really, Bioware was not the only company that overpromised its ending recently and had to enhance it......CD Projeckt committed the same error as well. Fallout 3 and Bioshock still won acclaim despite their poor endings.

Except Bethesda redid Fallout's ending, as well as added post-ending content and raised the level cap. I haven't seen any outcry about BioShock's endings.

And then so did Bioware....you're point?

And the endgame of Bioshock was a common criticism of that game. I wonder why the sequel put a lot more effort into its finale.

[Ryoten]

txgoldrush wrote...

Wow.....this shows the hypocrisy of Bioware fans.

Face it......Bioware was once a company viewed as unable to do anything wrong...however, they did plenty wrong and had major flaws. This includes a game such as Baldur's Gate II. And now Bioware can do no right, but the fact is that the characters have been more multidimensional, the imagination has never been more apparant, the writing has never been more mature, and the choices never mattered more.

I really hope you're just trolling.  This entire statement sounds more like someone whos never played a BioWare game, who got bribed to say this.  None of the choices from ME1 or 2 mattered in ME3.  DA2 argueably didn't even have a story.  And their characters have had less multidimension than a pubic hair. 

Neverwinter Nights? Was the game that good? The story sucked, its the worst Bioware story they have ever done, or is teh fanbase forgetting.

KOTOR. If it wasn't for the Star Wars liscence and the Revan plot twist, would th egame stand on its own? Would it have been that memorable? Can you really say its better than the sequel in its fully restored state both writing wise and gameplay wise? No you can't. KOTOR was a product of its time, and that masks the flaws it has. Consider it the FFVII of the Western RPG.

You see, this shows you really don't know what you're talking about.  These 2 games argueably made BioWare the company that they were built up to be prior to DA2.  KOTOR stands out as one of the greatest games ever made, and this game is what literaly introduced me to BioWare.  Honestly, you're the first person ive ever heard to bad mouth these games.

Dragon Age Origins? Really, so a game that basically as derivative and so unoriginal is that good? A game that lacks focus in its plot, sidelines its characters from the plot, and basically plays like a weaker version of FFXII combat wise that good?

I'm at a complete loss of words here.  There are some levels of stupidity that are so off the scale, that nothing you can say can define it.  This is such a case.

And before ME3, when did Bioware really offer true choice and consquence that wasn't Messiah vs The Devil? Except for DAO, which choices only really matter in the end, what Bioware made choices other than the big one matter truly outside morality points? At least ME3 had delayed cosnquences that affect you later, both in ME3 and from past games. So if you are a bioware fan of the past, criticizing ME3 for how it handles choice is hypocritical because no Bioware game does it better since BGII.

ME1
ME2
DA:O
KOTOR

And really was Drew K even that great of a writer.....his handling of Revan before he left Bioware proves that really, he wasn't that good of a writer.

I know one thing for sure.  I'm never going to see your name in the great halls of literature.

[o Ventus]

txgoldrush wrote...

And then so did Bioware....you're point?

And the endgame of Bioshock was a common criticism of that game. I wonder why the sequel put a lot more effort into its finale.

Bioware didn't redo anything. It retconned the Normandy crash. Aside from that, the endings and choices are the exact same. Refuse was added, but that isn't a revision.

[txgoldrush]

o Ventus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

So you'd pay 7 to 10 bucks of a one hour DLC that recycled environments from DAO?

If I was given the content I was advertised, and I enjoyed it, then yes. Yes I would.

If recycled environments is your biggest point, then I strongly suggest you stop making these complaints.

Yet it shows the same cash grabbing rush job effort that fans accuse Bioware of doing.....and the common complaint of DA2.

I even liked DA2, but had a huge problem with the recycling of the dungeons.

[Mello]

txgoldrush wrote...

iPoohCupCakes wrote...

I don't think it's Bioware, I think it's more of EA (Not saying that Bioware is innocent)
But after SWTOR and Dragon Age 2, I had a feeling that Bioware was slowly slipping away then BAM! Mass Effect 3.

And yet ME3 has over 70 perfect scores and over 20 GOTY awards including Game Informer, and was a sure nomination in most places.

Hell, it picked up reader awards and nearly beat Far Cry 3 on Gamespot, while winning reader's choice at Gamesradar and Escapist.

Which I think it deserved. 
Besides the ending Mass Effect 3 is a awesome game and I loved it all... up until the last mission. 

[txgoldrush]

Ryoten wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Wow.....this shows the hypocrisy of Bioware fans.

Face it......Bioware was once a company viewed as unable to do anything wrong...however, they did plenty wrong and had major flaws. This includes a game such as Baldur's Gate II. And now Bioware can do no right, but the fact is that the characters have been more multidimensional, the imagination has never been more apparant, the writing has never been more mature, and the choices never mattered more.

1) I really hope you're just trolling.  This entire statement sounds more like someone whos never played a BioWare game, who got bribed to say this.  None of the choices from ME1 or 2 mattered in ME3.  DA2 argueably didn't even have a story.  And their characters have had less multidimension than a pubic hair. 

Neverwinter Nights? Was the game that good? The story sucked, its the worst Bioware story they have ever done, or is teh fanbase forgetting.

KOTOR. If it wasn't for the Star Wars liscence and the Revan plot twist, would th egame stand on its own? Would it have been that memorable? Can you really say its better than the sequel in its fully restored state both writing wise and gameplay wise? No you can't. KOTOR was a product of its time, and that masks the flaws it has. Consider it the FFVII of the Western RPG.

2) You see, this shows you really don't know what you're talking about.  These 2 games argueably made BioWare the company that they were built up to be prior to DA2.  KOTOR stands out as one of the greatest games ever made, and this game is what literaly introduced me to BioWare.  Honestly, you're the first person ive ever heard to bad mouth these games.

Dragon Age Origins? Really, so a game that basically as derivative and so unoriginal is that good? A game that lacks focus in its plot, sidelines its characters from the plot, and basically plays like a weaker version of FFXII combat wise that good?

3) I'm at a complete loss of words here.  There are some levels of stupidity that are so off the scale, that nothing you can say can define it.  This is such a case.

And before ME3, when did Bioware really offer true choice and consquence that wasn't Messiah vs The Devil? Except for DAO, which choices only really matter in the end, what Bioware made choices other than the big one matter truly outside morality points? At least ME3 had delayed cosnquences that affect you later, both in ME3 and from past games. So if you are a bioware fan of the past, criticizing ME3 for how it handles choice is hypocritical because no Bioware game does it better since BGII.

4) ME1
ME2
DA:O
KOTOR

And really was Drew K even that great of a writer.....his handling of Revan before he left Bioware proves that really, he wasn't that good of a writer.

5) I know one thing for sure.  I'm never going to see your name in the great halls of literature.

Are you an idiot?

1) Sure choices don't matter....yeah Wrex and Wreav are so much the same and it doesn't matter what I did in ME2, peace between the geth and quarains are always a possibilty (sarcasm). And this is why I think people here are idiots......

And DA2 did actually have a story.....did you not get it because it wasn't about facing a monstorus force of evil to save the day? Let me enlighten you, the story of DA2 was about Varric telling a woman looking for Hawke (who once thought he was responsible for the crisis) how Hawke was not responsible for the collapse of the city and the descent into war. Were there execution problems with DA2? Absolutely.....But there is a story here and its far more complex than the LOTR ripoff that was DAO.

2) And when I look back at KOTOR, I see how flawed it really was and how much the sequel would have been better if LucasArts did not rush Obsidan.

3) So you are saying DAO isn't completely unoriginal and derivative while calling me an idiot? Wow

4) Yeah choices...are you the second coming of Christ or are you spawn of Satan? Your consquence.....morality points or approval....

5) And you?

[DirtyPhoenix]

BioWare has made me, as a human and not just a fan, learn some important lessons. That I'll not always be getting everything I wish for. That life will be unfair to me on many occasions and I have to learn to take it on the chin. That devs are humans afflicted by human desires like greed, money, fame and not the noble people we sometimes view them as. That they are in it to earn money like the rest of us, there aren't any "artists" out there. That its foolish to get your hopes high on a product before seeing it. The less I'm excited about a product the less disappointed I'd be.

And I thank them for these lessons. Like Joker would say, whatever doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.

[Iakus]

txgoldrush wrote...

So you'd pay 7 to 10 bucks of a one hour DLC that recycled environments from DAO?

I'd still buy DAO dlc today if it was offered.  I've purchased all but the Darkspawn Chronicles and enjoyed them all.  Why?  Because my Warden is MY WARDEN and I am able to decide their fate as I chose.

[txgoldrush]

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

So you'd pay 7 to 10 bucks of a one hour DLC that recycled environments from DAO?

I'd still buy DAO dlc today if it was offered.  I've purchased all but the Darkspawn Chronicles and enjoyed them all.  Why?  Because my Warden is MY WARDEN and I am able to decide their fate as I chose.

so you routinely bash ME3 but than support actual Bioware disasters....sloppily made cash grabs that were so panned that Bioware had to rethink how it made DLC?

Nevermind you don't play the Warden in some of them......

And really choice alone doesn't make a game good anyway....its how its executed.

[o Ventus]

[quote]txgoldrush wrote...

1) Sure choices don't matter....yeah Wrex and Wreav are so much the same and it doesn't matter what I did in ME2, peace between the geth and quarains are always a possibilty (sarcasm). And this is why I think people here are idiots......[/quote]

First off, congratulations on cherry picking the 2nd of two scenarios in ME3 where numerous factors from ME1 and 2 are taken into account. Good to see you're still bad at debating. Man, I remember when I genocided the rachni in ME1 and they didn't return in ME3. Wait...

See? I can do it too.

Second, Wrex and Wreav, in terms of story progression and the rewards gained, are essentially the same. Their characters might be different, but they fulfill the exact same roles. In fact, anyone who isn't Garrus or Tali effectively gets replaced by a flash-clone.
[/quote]

[Yalision]

After the ending debacle and Dragon Age 2, my faith in the name is certainly fractured.