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[txgoldrush]

[quote]o Ventus wrote...

[quote]txgoldrush wrote...

1) Sure choices don't matter....yeah Wrex and Wreav are so much the same and it doesn't matter what I did in ME2, peace between the geth and quarains are always a possibilty (sarcasm). And this is why I think people here are idiots......[/quote]

First off, congratulations on cherry picking the 2nd of two scenarios in ME3 where numerous factors from ME1 and 2 are taken into account. Good to see you're still bad at debating. Man, I remember when I genocided the rachni in ME1 and they didn't return in ME3. Wait...

See? I can do it too.

Second, Wrex and Wreav, in terms of story progression and the rewards gained, are essentially the same. Their characters might be different, but they fulfill the exact same roles. In fact, anyone who isn't Garrus or Tali effectively gets replaced by a flash-clone.
[/quote][/quote]

And yet your choices still matter, more than any Bioware game since BGII.

Nevermind the future of the Krogan is different depending on which leader you have, you know, different endings. Nevermind that sabotoging the cure has different consquences as well.

Hell, if you don;t have Thane or Kirrahe, the VS most likely dies, and there several points where you can make choices early in the game that get Miranda killed later in the game.

Oh wait, saving the Rachni breeder has different consquences than saving the real one. More consquence than Bioware did in the past.

So you can complain all you want about choice and consquence in ME3, but it better than are you Light Side goody goody, or evil, dark side douche of Bioware past, where except for the endgame choice, your choices are meaningless outside alignment.

[Ryoten]

txgoldrush wrote...

Ryoten wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Wow.....this shows the hypocrisy of Bioware fans.

Face it......Bioware was once a company viewed as unable to do anything wrong...however, they did plenty wrong and had major flaws. This includes a game such as Baldur's Gate II. And now Bioware can do no right, but the fact is that the characters have been more multidimensional, the imagination has never been more apparant, the writing has never been more mature, and the choices never mattered more.

1) I really hope you're just trolling.  This entire statement sounds more like someone whos never played a BioWare game, who got bribed to say this.  None of the choices from ME1 or 2 mattered in ME3.  DA2 argueably didn't even have a story.  And their characters have had less multidimension than a pubic hair. 

Neverwinter Nights? Was the game that good? The story sucked, its the worst Bioware story they have ever done, or is teh fanbase forgetting.

KOTOR. If it wasn't for the Star Wars liscence and the Revan plot twist, would th egame stand on its own? Would it have been that memorable? Can you really say its better than the sequel in its fully restored state both writing wise and gameplay wise? No you can't. KOTOR was a product of its time, and that masks the flaws it has. Consider it the FFVII of the Western RPG.

2) You see, this shows you really don't know what you're talking about.  These 2 games argueably made BioWare the company that they were built up to be prior to DA2.  KOTOR stands out as one of the greatest games ever made, and this game is what literaly introduced me to BioWare.  Honestly, you're the first person ive ever heard to bad mouth these games.

Dragon Age Origins? Really, so a game that basically as derivative and so unoriginal is that good? A game that lacks focus in its plot, sidelines its characters from the plot, and basically plays like a weaker version of FFXII combat wise that good?

3) I'm at a complete loss of words here.  There are some levels of stupidity that are so off the scale, that nothing you can say can define it.  This is such a case.

And before ME3, when did Bioware really offer true choice and consquence that wasn't Messiah vs The Devil? Except for DAO, which choices only really matter in the end, what Bioware made choices other than the big one matter truly outside morality points? At least ME3 had delayed cosnquences that affect you later, both in ME3 and from past games. So if you are a bioware fan of the past, criticizing ME3 for how it handles choice is hypocritical because no Bioware game does it better since BGII.

4) ME1
ME2
DA:O
KOTOR

And really was Drew K even that great of a writer.....his handling of Revan before he left Bioware proves that really, he wasn't that good of a writer.

5) I know one thing for sure.  I'm never going to see your name in the great halls of literature.

Are you an idiot?

1) Sure choices don't matter....yeah Wrex and Wreav are so much the same and it doesn't matter what I did in ME2, peace between the geth and quarains are always a possibilty (sarcasm). And this is why I think people here are idiots......

And DA2 did actually have a story.....did you not get it because it wasn't about facing a monstorus force of evil to save the day? Let me enlighten you, the story of DA2 was about Varric telling a woman looking for Hawke (who once thought he was responsible for the crisis) how Hawke was not responsible for the collapse of the city and the descent into war. Were there execution problems with DA2? Absolutely.....But there is a story here and its far more complex than the LOTR ripoff that was DAO.

2) And when I look back at KOTOR, I see how flawed it really was and how much the sequel would have been better if LucasArts did not rush Obsidan.

3) So you are saying DAO isn't completely unoriginal and derivative while calling me an idiot? Wow

4) Yeah choices...are you the second coming of Christ or are you spawn of Satan? Your consquence.....morality points or approval....

5) And you?

1. Are you an idiot?

It's funny, i was about to ask you that same question.  But after reading your responses, i wish i could pay to have you commited to a asylum.

2.  And DA2 did actually have a story.....did you not get it because it
wasn't about facing a monstorus force of evil to save the day? Let me
enlighten you, the story of DA2 was about Varric telling a woman looking
for Hawke (who once thought he was responsible for the crisis) how
Hawke was not responsible for the collapse of the city and the descent
into war. Were there execution problems with DA2? Absolutely.....But
there is a story here and its far more complex than the LOTR ripoff that
was DAO.

Oh i didn't say that it didn't have a story, i said it argueably didn't have one.  And judging by the terrible reviews, im not alone in thinking that.  I know what they were going for, and it was so un-interesting that its foregetable.  The story is barely there, and what is there is burried under so many forgettable mmo-style fetch quests with people jumping out of the scaffoldings to fight you that its pathetic.  John Steinbeck books have more memorable moments than this game.  And someone sitting down and explaining to someone "how so and so did this and not that, and its not what you thinl".  Is not something thats original.  Star Trek has done it more times than i can count.  DA2 sucked, and i doubt anyones going to take your back on this one.  The cheese (you) stands alone.

3) So you are saying DAO isn't completely unoriginal and derivative while calling me an idiot? Wow

I'm saying, it was more interesting and memorable than the crap you preach called DA2.  There's a reason why stories such as LoTR are memorable, and DA2 are not.  They work.

4) Yeah choices...are you the second coming of Christ or are you spawn
of Satan? Your consquence.....morality points or approval....

So i guess choosing to save a council, which of my friends live and die accross two games, countless moral and ethical decisions,  Choosing to let your g/f live or die, Choosing to kill of a entire race or let it live.  Yeah, those are all non-consequential.  Lets just focus on ME3 choices because that game is all that matters, right?

5) And you?

I never said i would, but what i believe will stand the test of time long after your's are burried and dead.

[o Ventus]

txgoldrush wrote...

And yet your choices still matter, more than any Bioware game since BGII.

Nevermind the future of the Krogan is different depending on which leader you have, you know, different endings. Nevermind that sabotoging the cure has different consquences as well.

Hell, if you don;t have Thane or Kirrahe, the VS most likely dies, and there several points where you can make choices early in the game that get Miranda killed later in the game.

Oh wait, saving the Rachni breeder has different consquences than saving the real one. More consquence than Bioware did in the past.

1. The ending for the krogan is only as varied as you headcanon it to be. That's why they presented it as a slideshow and not a cinematic. In-game (you know, where the choices are supposed to have effect), they serve the same purpose. 

2. Your point about Miranda is way off the mark. I said "factors from ME1 and 2".

3. Saving the Breeder gets you a reduction in assets. Oh boy, that sure does change how my story missions are going to play out in some form, and it sure does change people's reactions to my decisions. It affects my choices so much that... Nothing is different at all. Huh.

[fiendishchicken]

Mostly leaked info from ME3's Development, mixed with the alarming amount of emphasis on combat, followed by the games release, and finally the big old TOR fiasco.

[liggy002]

MyAwesomeAfro wrote...

 I love Mass Effect. I love the lore, I love the planets I love the characters I love everything. It has become my favourite video game series of all time. And You've all heard this before. The Endings sucks yada yada.

I just can't help but feel EA/Bioware are too far gone. We've been on these forums for over a year voicing all these opinions, giving amazing feedback and generally engaging in frantic heavy conversation that Bioware could of used to easily win us back. They had the power to do so.

I can't help but feel ME3 could of been so much more. It could of bee absolutely legendary beyond all belief. The main campaign was breathtaking. But the endings soured the experience, the extended cut still couldn't wash the taste from my mouth, it didn't feel "Canon" it felt tacked on as a "Oh..Yeah. Here you go" experience.

If Bioware used even a fraction of the passion that this forum contained and used it in the ME3 DLC + EC. I would feel satisfied. But instead I feel betrayed and my faith in EA and Bioware has sank to an absolute all time low. (Even though EA is pretty much hated worldwide) And I wish it didn't have to be like that.

ME3 was a Gem. But it just proved to me again that money talks. And lazy Cutbacks on one of the decades greatest franchises are just unavoidable of sales are guaranteed. I'm sick of it.

I know this is rambling. But it needs to be said. I genuinely think we could of created a better game. Bioware ultimately failed to deliver despite having an entire Year + DLC to fix it. They blew it horribly bad, and so they have simple lost all of my trust.

It's a shame, really.

Anyone feel the same?


TL;DR - ME3 was a missed opportunity. They didn't fix it properly and now the dgaf.

I feel like anytime I provide constructive feed back on here that I am just talking to a wall.  I've tried many times to no avail.  Apparently, they don't want to "bend over backwards" for their fans.  Here is my counter question:  Then why the **** are you making games?  It's not about bending over backwards, it's about finding a compromise not making DLC that does nothing for the game and addresses none of the concerns.  We don't need more story.  We need a better story first.  Then you can give us more of the Universe.

Modifié par liggy002, 04 janvier 2013 - 05:07 .

[Ryoten]

liggy002 wrote...

MyAwesomeAfro wrote...

 I love Mass Effect. I love the lore, I love the planets I love the characters I love everything. It has become my favourite video game series of all time. And You've all heard this before. The Endings sucks yada yada.

I just can't help but feel EA/Bioware are too far gone. We've been on these forums for over a year voicing all these opinions, giving amazing feedback and generally engaging in frantic heavy conversation that Bioware could of used to easily win us back. They had the power to do so.

I can't help but feel ME3 could of been so much more. It could of bee absolutely legendary beyond all belief. The main campaign was breathtaking. But the endings soured the experience, the extended cut still couldn't wash the taste from my mouth, it didn't feel "Canon" it felt tacked on as a "Oh..Yeah. Here you go" experience.

If Bioware used even a fraction of the passion that this forum contained and used it in the ME3 DLC + EC. I would feel satisfied. But instead I feel betrayed and my faith in EA and Bioware has sank to an absolute all time low. (Even though EA is pretty much hated worldwide) And I wish it didn't have to be like that.

ME3 was a Gem. But it just proved to me again that money talks. And lazy Cutbacks on one of the decades greatest franchises are just unavoidable of sales are guaranteed. I'm sick of it.

I know this is rambling. But it needs to be said. I genuinely think we could of created a better game. Bioware ultimately failed to deliver despite having an entire Year + DLC to fix it. They blew it horribly bad, and so they have simple lost all of my trust.

It's a shame, really.

Anyone feel the same?


TL;DR - ME3 was a missed opportunity. They didn't fix it properly and now the dgaf.

I feel like anytime I provide constructive feed back on here that I am just talking to a wall.  I've tried many times to no avail.  Apparently, they don't want to "bend over backwards" for their fans.  Here is my counter question:  Then why the **** are you making games?

Well, with people like txgoldrush.  I can see why you would think that.

Also Liggy, you're one of the few people i like on these forums.  Fist bump for more Harbinger in ME3.

[txgoldrush]

Ryoten wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Ryoten wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Wow.....this shows the hypocrisy of Bioware fans.

Face it......Bioware was once a company viewed as unable to do anything wrong...however, they did plenty wrong and had major flaws. This includes a game such as Baldur's Gate II. And now Bioware can do no right, but the fact is that the characters have been more multidimensional, the imagination has never been more apparant, the writing has never been more mature, and the choices never mattered more.

1) I really hope you're just trolling.  This entire statement sounds more like someone whos never played a BioWare game, who got bribed to say this.  None of the choices from ME1 or 2 mattered in ME3.  DA2 argueably didn't even have a story.  And their characters have had less multidimension than a pubic hair. 

Neverwinter Nights? Was the game that good? The story sucked, its the worst Bioware story they have ever done, or is teh fanbase forgetting.

KOTOR. If it wasn't for the Star Wars liscence and the Revan plot twist, would th egame stand on its own? Would it have been that memorable? Can you really say its better than the sequel in its fully restored state both writing wise and gameplay wise? No you can't. KOTOR was a product of its time, and that masks the flaws it has. Consider it the FFVII of the Western RPG.

2) You see, this shows you really don't know what you're talking about.  These 2 games argueably made BioWare the company that they were built up to be prior to DA2.  KOTOR stands out as one of the greatest games ever made, and this game is what literaly introduced me to BioWare.  Honestly, you're the first person ive ever heard to bad mouth these games.

Dragon Age Origins? Really, so a game that basically as derivative and so unoriginal is that good? A game that lacks focus in its plot, sidelines its characters from the plot, and basically plays like a weaker version of FFXII combat wise that good?

3) I'm at a complete loss of words here.  There are some levels of stupidity that are so off the scale, that nothing you can say can define it.  This is such a case.

And before ME3, when did Bioware really offer true choice and consquence that wasn't Messiah vs The Devil? Except for DAO, which choices only really matter in the end, what Bioware made choices other than the big one matter truly outside morality points? At least ME3 had delayed cosnquences that affect you later, both in ME3 and from past games. So if you are a bioware fan of the past, criticizing ME3 for how it handles choice is hypocritical because no Bioware game does it better since BGII.

4) ME1
ME2
DA:O
KOTOR

And really was Drew K even that great of a writer.....his handling of Revan before he left Bioware proves that really, he wasn't that good of a writer.

5) I know one thing for sure.  I'm never going to see your name in the great halls of literature.

Are you an idiot?

1) Sure choices don't matter....yeah Wrex and Wreav are so much the same and it doesn't matter what I did in ME2, peace between the geth and quarains are always a possibilty (sarcasm). And this is why I think people here are idiots......

And DA2 did actually have a story.....did you not get it because it wasn't about facing a monstorus force of evil to save the day? Let me enlighten you, the story of DA2 was about Varric telling a woman looking for Hawke (who once thought he was responsible for the crisis) how Hawke was not responsible for the collapse of the city and the descent into war. Were there execution problems with DA2? Absolutely.....But there is a story here and its far more complex than the LOTR ripoff that was DAO.

2) And when I look back at KOTOR, I see how flawed it really was and how much the sequel would have been better if LucasArts did not rush Obsidan.

3) So you are saying DAO isn't completely unoriginal and derivative while calling me an idiot? Wow

4) Yeah choices...are you the second coming of Christ or are you spawn of Satan? Your consquence.....morality points or approval....

5) And you?

1. Are you an idiot?

It's funny, i was about to ask you that same question.  But after reading your responses, i wish i could pay to have you commited to a asylum.

2.  And DA2 did actually have a story.....did you not get it because it
wasn't about facing a monstorus force of evil to save the day? Let me
enlighten you, the story of DA2 was about Varric telling a woman looking
for Hawke (who once thought he was responsible for the crisis) how
Hawke was not responsible for the collapse of the city and the descent
into war. Were there execution problems with DA2? Absolutely.....But
there is a story here and its far more complex than the LOTR ripoff that
was DAO.

Oh i didn't say that it didn't have a story, i said it argueably didn't have one.  And judging by the terrible reviews, im not alone in thinking that.  I know what they were going for, and it was so un-interesting that its foregetable.  The story is barely there, and what is there is burried under so many forgettable mmo-style fetch quests with people jumping out of the scaffoldings to fight you that its pathetic.  John Steinbeck books have more memorable moments than this game.  And someone sitting down and explaining to someone "how so and so did this and not that, and its not what you thinl".  Is not something thats original.  Star Trek has done it more times than i can count.  DA2 sucked, and i doubt anyones going to take your back on this one.  The cheese (you) stands alone.

3) So you are saying DAO isn't completely unoriginal and derivative while calling me an idiot? Wow

I'm saying, it was more interesting and memorable than the crap you preach called DA2.  There's a reason why stories such as LoTR are memorable, and DA2 are not.  They work.

4) Yeah choices...are you the second coming of Christ or are you spawn
of Satan? Your consquence.....morality points or approval....

So i guess choosing to save a council, which of my friends live and die accross two games, countless moral and ethical decisions,  Choosing to let your g/f live or die, Choosing to kill of a entire race or let it live.  Yeah, those are all non-consequential.  Lets just focus on ME3 choices because that game is all that matters, right?

5) And you?

I never said i would, but what i believe will stand the test of time long after your's are burried and dead.

"The cheese (you) stands alone"

And yet DA2 has several positive reviews as well with some people saying the story is better and far more ambitious. So I am not alone in this. And it definitely does have a story...there is no argument here. So there is no such thing as "argueably" here.

"I'm saying, it was more interesting and memorable than the crap you preach called DA2. There's a reason why stories such as LoTR are memorable, and DA2 are not. They work."

And there are also reasons why the words "cliched" "derivative" "unoriginal" and "ripoff" exist.

"So i guess choosing to save a council, which of my friends live and die accross two games, countless moral and ethical decisions, Choosing to let your g/f live or die, Choosing to kill of a entire race or let it live. Yeah, those are all non-consequential. Lets just focus on ME3 choices because that game is all that matters, right?"

And yet where do the consquences occur?....lets hear it....Mass Effect 3. Before ME3, it was all choice, very little consquence.

"I never said i would, but what i believe will stand the test of time long after your's are burried and dead."

Sure...lol

[liggy002]

pirate1802 wrote...

BioWare has made me, as a human and not just a fan, learn some important lessons. That I'll not always be getting everything I wish for. That life will be unfair to me on many occasions and I have to learn to take it on the chin. That devs are humans afflicted by human desires like greed, money, fame and not the noble people we sometimes view them as. That they are in it to earn money like the rest of us, there aren't any "artists" out there. That its foolish to get your hopes high on a product before seeing it. The less I'm excited about a product the less disappointed I'd be.

And I thank them for these lessons. Like Joker would say, whatever doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.

The Witcher series exists and that tells me that are really people out there that are passionate about making games.

[txgoldrush]

o Ventus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

And yet your choices still matter, more than any Bioware game since BGII.

Nevermind the future of the Krogan is different depending on which leader you have, you know, different endings. Nevermind that sabotoging the cure has different consquences as well.

Hell, if you don;t have Thane or Kirrahe, the VS most likely dies, and there several points where you can make choices early in the game that get Miranda killed later in the game.

Oh wait, saving the Rachni breeder has different consquences than saving the real one. More consquence than Bioware did in the past.

1. The ending for the krogan is only as varied as you headcanon it to be. That's why they presented it as a slideshow and not a cinematic. In-game (you know, where the choices are supposed to have effect), they serve the same purpose. 

2. Your point about Miranda is way off the mark. I said "factors from ME1 and 2".

3. Saving the Breeder gets you a reduction in assets. Oh boy, that sure does change how my story missions are going to play out in some form, and it sure does change people's reactions to my decisions. It affects my choices so much that... Nothing is different at all. Huh.

1. Nope, its shown throughout the game what their intentions will be. You don't need spoon feeding to know what will happen if Wreav is leader and not Wrex. Nevermind this can play a role in whether you want to cure the genophage or not and whether Mordin can survive ME3. Nevermind Eve's survival has an impact on the future as well.

2. Miranda's loyalty in ME2 is a factor to her surviving ME3

3. But your choice did matter, just not the way you wanted it to.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 04 janvier 2013 - 05:21 .

[Natabre]

Completely unrelated to ME universe or rather...I'm not including ME as part of Bioware because I freaking love ME. Bioware kind of killed my favorite MMO, Star Wars Galaxies, not that I'm blaming Bioware entirely for that. I know that there were a lot of factors of SWG shutting down, just that Bioware's part of it. But that's way past now and I have no issues with Bioware!

[TheRealJayDee]

Ninja Stan wrote...

I may regret this, but can I ask:

What kind of "trust" did you have in BioWare before ME3?

The first Bioware game I actually bought was DA:O. I loved what I'd seen of it in previews and such, then the character creator was released and I knew I had to get the game. It became my first day-1-purchase of a game in many years. It wasn't perfect, but I had so much fun with it that the existing flaws didn't bother me at all. I was excited about revisiting this awesome world in future games. On a DA:O related contest I won Mass Effect 2, and because I'd heard good things about it I bought ME1 and started playing it. I enjoyed it, but never got far because after a while I always returned to DA:O.

Then came DA2, which was the first game I ever preordered, because of how much I loved DA:O. Even after being disappointed about certain things I kept the preorder, and even after being rather displeased with the demo I kept up my hope that the full game would live up to it's predecessor. Imo it didn't, because of it being clearly rushed and because of various changes to DA:O that I deemed wrong. I didn't spend much time with the game, and in my disappointment I gave Mass Effect another try. And I found out I loved it.

Again the first game had it's flaws, but I had so much fun playing it nonetheless that I didn't mind them. Afterwards I moved on to ME2, which again had changes I didn't agree with, but which I ended up liking a lot. This time i was even more excited about the next game, it being the finale of this so far great trilogy. I preorderd ME3, despite my experience with DA2, because it was a different team and I was sure that after the mixed reactions to DA2 we would get the best game they could possibly make.

Then ME3 hit and with it my respect for and trust in Bioware took one hell of a dive. Through my experiences with DA:O and ME1+2 I got to know Bioware as a company that made games that I could immensly enjoy. The "trust" built from that resulted in the preorders for DA2 and ME3 (ordering a game without waiting for any kind of reviews is nothing more than a sign of trust that you believe the company will deliever another product you enjoy) . After those games and especially after the PR debacle around ME3 I learned that Bioware would not only rush their games and take existing franchises in directions I don't agree with, but also that sadly I can't seem to rely on much anything I hear about their games from staff and their PR before release, and that there seem to be severe cases of miscommunication and misunderstandings, both internally and with their fans/customers.

Ultimately it comes down to money, as you yourself, Stan, did your best in the past weeks/months to teach us that we should get accustomed to disappointments and realize that any business we have with Bioware is just that - business. I won't spent money on a game for which I haven't read a lot of user reviews, which means no preorders and not purchaes near release for future Bioware games.

DA:O and ME made me think of myself as a fan of Bioware, DA2 and ME3 helped me change that into thinking of myself as a responsible customer.

[Jadebaby]

arguing with txgoldrush... You guys are just wasting your time.

[txgoldrush]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

arguing with txgoldrush... You guys are just wasting your time.

and yet this borad is full of ignorance.....

If this game is such a breaker for Bioware...than why all the acclodes? Why the critical acclaim including over 70 perfect scores and over 20 GOTYs, why does it do well and actually win several reader GOTY polls, even taking Far Cry 3 to the limit on Gamespot and winning Gamesradar and Escapist.

Maybe ever though that bashers like you are the VOCAL MINORITY and the fans of ME3 are the silent majority that does not give a crap about what you think? Because it sure looks like it.

Hell, I hate Call of Duty, but I am going to be smart and view myself as in the minority and not act like its objectively a sucky game series.

[o Ventus]

txgoldrush wrote...

1. Nope, its shown throughout the game what their intentions will be. You don't need spoon feeding to know what will happen if Wreav is leader and not Wrex. Nevermind this can play a role in whether you want to cure the genophage or not and whether Mordin can survive ME3. Nevermind Eve's survival has an impact on the future as well.

I'm not even going to bother typing a reply to this one (well, besides this little blurb). The fact that you actually used the words "spoon fed" just tore your credibility to shreds.

2. Miranda's loyalty in ME2 is a factor to her surviving ME3

Which ultimately changes what? Even without Miranda, ME3 plays out just the same. Her death comes with a 25 war asset penalty. Ooooh, I might need that 25 points when my Alliance, turian, krogan, quarian, and geth all add up to over 5000.

3. But your choice did matter, just not the way you wanted it to.

See above (if your ability to cherry pick will let you). So are you actually going to tell me how my choice mattered in any meaningful fashion, or are you just going to say "it mattered"?

[TheRealJayDee]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

arguing with txgoldrush... You guys are just wasting your time.

[Dark_Caduceus]

Mass Effect 3 completed the process that Mass Effect 2 began, I'm very unlikely to ever buy a Bioware product again.

[fiendishchicken]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

arguing with txgoldrush... You guys are just wasting your time.

[Ryoten]

txgoldrush wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

arguing with txgoldrush... You guys are just wasting your time.

and yet this borad is full of ignorance.....

If this game is such a breaker for Bioware...than why all the acclodes? Why the critical acclaim including over 70 perfect scores and over 20 GOTYs, why does it do well and actually win several reader GOTY polls, even taking Far Cry 3 to the limit on Gamespot and winning Gamesradar and Escapist.

Maybe ever though that bashers like you are the VOCAL MINORITY and the fans of ME3 are the silent majority that does not give a crap about what you think? Because it sure looks like it.

Hell, I hate Call of Duty, but I am going to be smart and view myself as in the minority and not act like its objectively a sucky game series.

You're nothing more than a sensationalist. "and yet this borad is full of ignorance"..... all im hearing is "im right and the world is wrong."   You ever stop to consider that maybe the world is right anf you're the one who is wrong?  You are mad.  You truly are.  You can't take an ounce.  There is a small vocal minority, and you're part of it, Jack the ripper.

[Ninja Stan]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Ultimately it comes down to money, as you yourself, Stan, did your best in the past weeks/months to teach us that we should get accustomed to disappointments and realize that any business we have with Bioware is just that - business. I won't spent money on a game for which I haven't read a lot of user reviews, which means no preorders and not purchaes near release for future Bioware games.

DA:O and ME made me think of myself as a fan of Bioware, DA2 and ME3 helped me change that into thinking of myself as a responsible customer.

There really is no reason you can't be both, though seeing as it's your money, you can do what you like with it.

I am a fan of a great many things, but I very rarely buy things blindly, and when I do, I am aware of the risks I've implicitly assumed. It doesn't matter whether you pre-order immediately as soon as it's available or wait on reviews and word-of-mouth to purchase something. It doesn't make you any more or less of a fan either way. Contrary to what you might see online, there isn't actually any kind of comparison being done as to who is a bigger fan or who BioWare listens to more.

It's all business, all of it. Whatever entertainment you enjoy is business. But that shouldn't stop you from actually enjoying it (or not enjoying it) and sharing your experiences with others and getting involved in communities. It doesn't mean you stop being passionate about the stuff you like, and it doesn't mean that those making the stuff you like aren't passionate. It just means you're more aware of how business is done and can adjust your expectations accordingly. For me, it's being skeptical of marketing messages. For you, it might be enough to pay more attention to reviews in order to better temper your expectations.

[txgoldrush]

o Ventus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

1. Nope, its shown throughout the game what their intentions will be. You don't need spoon feeding to know what will happen if Wreav is leader and not Wrex. Nevermind this can play a role in whether you want to cure the genophage or not and whether Mordin can survive ME3. Nevermind Eve's survival has an impact on the future as well.

a) I'm not even going to bother typing a reply to this one (well, besides this little blurb). The fact that you actually used the words "spoon fed" just tore your credibility to shreds.

2. Miranda's loyalty in ME2 is a factor to her surviving ME3

Which ultimately changes what? Even without Miranda, ME3 plays out just the same. Her death comes with a 25 war asset penalty. Ooooh, I might need that 25 points when my Alliance, turian, krogan, quarian, and geth all add up to over 5000.

3. But your choice did matter, just not the way you wanted it to.

c) See above (if your ability to cherry pick will let you). So are you actually going to tell me how my choice mattered in any meaningful fashion, or are you just going to say "it mattered"?

a) because you have none.....ME3 clearly shows the results of the Krogan leadership, Eve's survival, and the genophage results. You cannot debate this.

So what if you like Miranda as a character and want to keep her alive at all costs? Then your choice obviously matters more. Its a choice and consquence on the character level. Hell, she can even die as a romance interest,w hich can shock those who like the character.

c) But as an objective FACT, yes, it matters. The script is altered, the tone is altered, and teh consquence is altered...all objective facts. Whether or not its meaningful to you is opinion....subjective.

And compare this to other Bioware games....

Really what choice other than joining Bastila or not, matters majorly in KOTOR? What choice other than killing or poisioning the Water Dragon matter in JE? Taking ME1 alone, outside of the Virmire survivor and the end choice, did your choices matter much in ME1? Compared to Obsidan or CD Projeckt, or Atlus.....Bioware sucks at choice and consquence in a meaningful way. Why? Because its more reliant on a morality meter than actual consquences.

[txgoldrush]

Ryoten wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

arguing with txgoldrush... You guys are just wasting your time.

and yet this borad is full of ignorance.....

If this game is such a breaker for Bioware...than why all the acclodes? Why the critical acclaim including over 70 perfect scores and over 20 GOTYs, why does it do well and actually win several reader GOTY polls, even taking Far Cry 3 to the limit on Gamespot and winning Gamesradar and Escapist.

Maybe ever though that bashers like you are the VOCAL MINORITY and the fans of ME3 are the silent majority that does not give a crap about what you think? Because it sure looks like it.

Hell, I hate Call of Duty, but I am going to be smart and view myself as in the minority and not act like its objectively a sucky game series.

You're nothing more than a sensationalist. "and yet this borad is full of ignorance"..... all im hearing is "im right and the world is wrong."   You ever stop to consider that maybe the world is right anf you're the one who is wrong?  You are mad.  You truly are.  You can't take an ounce.  There is a small vocal minority, and you're part of it, Jack the ripper.

So tell me....is those that bash ME3 the majority or the minority? Because from the evidence I have seen, its the minority.

A game that is an objective failure doesn't win critical acclaim, awards, or even popularity contests.

[Ninja Stan]

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

Mass Effect 3 completed the process that Mass Effect 2 began, I'm very unlikely to ever buy a Bioware product again.

This kinda leads to another question that I'm reticent to ask, but it's related:

This kind of sentiment is brought up quite a bit, and more power to you for doing so. But for people who claim to be huge fans who had faith in the company and trusted them to release product that you wouldn't be disappointed in, sometimes all it takes is one bad product to make you change your mind.

I know I won't get a complete answer right now, but if the next Mass Effect game does what the marketing claims, is as good as the hype says it is, receives many top marks, and is said by fans to be pretty darn good, would that be enough to change your mind and restore that trust you once had? Would ME3 (and maybe DA2, if you lean that way) then be seen as statistical anomalies in BioWare's gameography, or has the trust been well and truly severed and each good, worthy game becomes but a stepping stone to restoring that faith?

[Ninja Stan]

I just want to remind everyone to mind the Site Rules regarding personal attacks, name-calling and insults. This has been a pretty reasonable discussion so far, and I'd like to keep it that way. I may be biased, since I'm involved in the conversation, but I don't want to have to shout over people who want to be mean and nasty to each other.

Thank you.

[Ryoten]

txgoldrush wrote...

Ryoten wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Ryoten wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Wow.....this shows the hypocrisy of Bioware fans.

Face it......Bioware was once a company viewed as unable to do anything wrong...however, they did plenty wrong and had major flaws. This includes a game such as Baldur's Gate II. And now Bioware can do no right, but the fact is that the characters have been more multidimensional, the imagination has never been more apparant, the writing has never been more mature, and the choices never mattered more.

1) I really hope you're just trolling.  This entire statement sounds more like someone whos never played a BioWare game, who got bribed to say this.  None of the choices from ME1 or 2 mattered in ME3.  DA2 argueably didn't even have a story.  And their characters have had less multidimension than a pubic hair. 

Neverwinter Nights? Was the game that good? The story sucked, its the worst Bioware story they have ever done, or is teh fanbase forgetting.

KOTOR. If it wasn't for the Star Wars liscence and the Revan plot twist, would th egame stand on its own? Would it have been that memorable? Can you really say its better than the sequel in its fully restored state both writing wise and gameplay wise? No you can't. KOTOR was a product of its time, and that masks the flaws it has. Consider it the FFVII of the Western RPG.

2) You see, this shows you really don't know what you're talking about.  These 2 games argueably made BioWare the company that they were built up to be prior to DA2.  KOTOR stands out as one of the greatest games ever made, and this game is what literaly introduced me to BioWare.  Honestly, you're the first person ive ever heard to bad mouth these games.

Dragon Age Origins? Really, so a game that basically as derivative and so unoriginal is that good? A game that lacks focus in its plot, sidelines its characters from the plot, and basically plays like a weaker version of FFXII combat wise that good?

3) I'm at a complete loss of words here.  There are some levels of stupidity that are so off the scale, that nothing you can say can define it.  This is such a case.

And before ME3, when did Bioware really offer true choice and consquence that wasn't Messiah vs The Devil? Except for DAO, which choices only really matter in the end, what Bioware made choices other than the big one matter truly outside morality points? At least ME3 had delayed cosnquences that affect you later, both in ME3 and from past games. So if you are a bioware fan of the past, criticizing ME3 for how it handles choice is hypocritical because no Bioware game does it better since BGII.

4) ME1
ME2
DA:O
KOTOR

And really was Drew K even that great of a writer.....his handling of Revan before he left Bioware proves that really, he wasn't that good of a writer.

5) I know one thing for sure.  I'm never going to see your name in the great halls of literature.

Are you an idiot?

1) Sure choices don't matter....yeah Wrex and Wreav are so much the same and it doesn't matter what I did in ME2, peace between the geth and quarains are always a possibilty (sarcasm). And this is why I think people here are idiots......

And DA2 did actually have a story.....did you not get it because it wasn't about facing a monstorus force of evil to save the day? Let me enlighten you, the story of DA2 was about Varric telling a woman looking for Hawke (who once thought he was responsible for the crisis) how Hawke was not responsible for the collapse of the city and the descent into war. Were there execution problems with DA2? Absolutely.....But there is a story here and its far more complex than the LOTR ripoff that was DAO.

2) And when I look back at KOTOR, I see how flawed it really was and how much the sequel would have been better if LucasArts did not rush Obsidan.

3) So you are saying DAO isn't completely unoriginal and derivative while calling me an idiot? Wow

4) Yeah choices...are you the second coming of Christ or are you spawn of Satan? Your consquence.....morality points or approval....

5) And you?

1. Are you an idiot?

It's funny, i was about to ask you that same question.  But after reading your responses, i wish i could pay to have you commited to a asylum.

2.  And DA2 did actually have a story.....did you not get it because it
wasn't about facing a monstorus force of evil to save the day? Let me
enlighten you, the story of DA2 was about Varric telling a woman looking
for Hawke (who once thought he was responsible for the crisis) how
Hawke was not responsible for the collapse of the city and the descent
into war. Were there execution problems with DA2? Absolutely.....But
there is a story here and its far more complex than the LOTR ripoff that
was DAO.

Oh i didn't say that it didn't have a story, i said it argueably didn't have one.  And judging by the terrible reviews, im not alone in thinking that.  I know what they were going for, and it was so un-interesting that its foregetable.  The story is barely there, and what is there is burried under so many forgettable mmo-style fetch quests with people jumping out of the scaffoldings to fight you that its pathetic.  John Steinbeck books have more memorable moments than this game.  And someone sitting down and explaining to someone "how so and so did this and not that, and its not what you thinl".  Is not something thats original.  Star Trek has done it more times than i can count.  DA2 sucked, and i doubt anyones going to take your back on this one.  The cheese (you) stands alone.

3) So you are saying DAO isn't completely unoriginal and derivative while calling me an idiot? Wow

I'm saying, it was more interesting and memorable than the crap you preach called DA2.  There's a reason why stories such as LoTR are memorable, and DA2 are not.  They work.

4) Yeah choices...are you the second coming of Christ or are you spawn
of Satan? Your consquence.....morality points or approval....

So i guess choosing to save a council, which of my friends live and die accross two games, countless moral and ethical decisions,  Choosing to let your g/f live or die, Choosing to kill of a entire race or let it live.  Yeah, those are all non-consequential.  Lets just focus on ME3 choices because that game is all that matters, right?

5) And you?

I never said i would, but what i believe will stand the test of time long after your's are burried and dead.

"The cheese (you) stands alone"

And yet DA2 has several positive reviews as well with some people saying the story is better and far more ambitious. So I am not alone in this. And it definitely does have a story...there is no argument here. So there is no such thing as "argueably" here.

"I'm saying, it was more interesting and memorable than the crap you preach called DA2. There's a reason why stories such as LoTR are memorable, and DA2 are not. They work."

And there are also reasons why the words "cliched" "derivative" "unoriginal" and "ripoff" exist.

"So i guess choosing to save a council, which of my friends live and die accross two games, countless moral and ethical decisions, Choosing to let your g/f live or die, Choosing to kill of a entire race or let it live. Yeah, those are all non-consequential. Lets just focus on ME3 choices because that game is all that matters, right?"

And yet where do the consquences occur?....lets hear it....Mass Effect 3. Before ME3, it was all choice, very little consquence.

"I never said i would, but what i believe will stand the test of time long after your's are burried and dead."

Sure...lol

1. And yet DA2 has several positive reviews as well with some people saying
the story is better and far more ambitious. So I am not alone in this.
And it definitely does have a story...there is no argument here. So
there is no such thing as "argueably" here.


The only positive reviews ive seen are you, dangling it out there and maybe one or two review sites.  It was declared a failure.  Hence why they pulled the plug on the DLC.  The story is argueably not there because were arguing about it right now.  Aside from the last 10 minutes of the game, i cant remember anything from that game and i played it through 3 times.  However i remember almost every bit of DA:O.   Being able to remember a story is what makes something good, because it sticks with you.  DA2 does not.  Very boring. 

2. And there are also reasons why the words "cliched" "derivative" "unoriginal" and "ripoff" exist.

A ripoff would have been a lot better than the story (or rather lack of) of hawke.  DA2, simple and boring.

3.  And yet where do the consquences occur?....lets hear it....Mass Effect 3. Before ME3, it was all choice, very little consquences.

Well lets see, there was the whole invasion of the citadel!?  Or how about ME2 when you the council is either there at the meeting or dead.  How about when some of your team mates are dead in space tubes.  It makes me wonder if you actually pay attention to what goes on in these games or whether you just drift off and start dreaming up your own absolute garbage ideas. 

4. Sure...lol

I'm glad to see you agree with me.  Excepting that you're wrong is the first step. 

[BellPeppers&Beef023]

one troll enters, and everyone takes the bait.