213 réponses à ce sujet

[_- Songlian -]

 I'll be completely honest and just say it - I don't like having to work for my companions' loyalty throught an entire game. I want me to do stuff for them, and then I want them to like me for it. That is all.

I don't want to hoard their Friendship and Rivalry points like it's the second most important thing after the Blight. Switching teams so as their causes do not conflict with my intended course of action, and carefully checking the wiki before every mission to see who's planning to hit me with disapproval if I say the wrong thing. Because, Maker forbids, the MAIN HERO of the story offends the refined ideologies of his helping hands and screws up an entire progress on the approval bar. 

I resent the fact that getting my companions to like me in DA2 had become a purpose in itself. And no, I can't just skip it if I don't like it, not when there's extra dialogue and bonuses attached to it. 

But maybe that's just me and I'm wrong about it. How about you? Do you want the Friendship/Rivalry system to make a comeback in DA:I? 

Modifié par - Songlian -, 04 janvier 2013 - 12:59 .

[Dhiro]

I do.

[samgurl775]

I liked the approval system far more than the friendship/rivalry system.

[Ponendus]

I am not sure why you feel you need to go to that much effort? It is an arbitrary indicator of your current 'standing' with the companion at a given point throughout the game. The way you are describing it you are making it sound like an achievement.

Why not try just making decisions in the game because that is what you want to do? Much like life people will react to you and your choices however they choose to, it is more about them than about you. The friendship/rivalry system is just letting you know how they feel about you. If you are the kind of person they want to be friends with, then you will be, if not, then you won't. You can't please everyone.

I am indifferent to whether it returns, but that is mainly because I would prefer to be surprised by my companions reactions and feelings towards me (much like real life) rather than so easily be able to predict it. I can do that anyway if it does return, I simply don't look at it.

[_- Songlian -]

samgurl775 wrote...

I liked the approval system far more than the friendship/rivalry system.

Same here! 

[_- Songlian -]

Ponendus wrote...

I am not sure why you feel you need to go to that much effort? It is an arbitrary indicator of your current 'standing' with the companion at a given point throughout the game. The way you are describing it you are making it sound like an achievement.

As long as there will be additional conversations and ability bonuses attached to it, I will not be able to look at it in any other way. It's like a side quest - you know it's minor, you know it will do nothing to advance the story, but you can't help pursuing it anyway because otherwise you'd feel like you are missing content. 

That's the way I see the issue, anyway.  

Modifié par - Songlian -, 04 janvier 2013 - 12:45 .

[XX-Pyro]

It's better in the sense that it gives more options in my opinion. It's impact on the game was a lot stronger than just romancing- it actually changed how characters responded to you. Made them feel like more than sheep to me. They do need to do a better job of making it more of a meta-game problem though.

[Kidd]

I love the friend/rival system. In fact, I think it's a good thing if you don't max out the meter for everybody every game (even though you can do that with a wiki). I've had to take down both Anders and Fenris with different Hawkes, and while that's sad, it makes the playthroughs feel that much more real and - wait for it - reactive.

Nothing like consequence to your actions when said consequence is one of your companions pointing their weapons' pointy ends to your throat.

[thats1evildude]

I like bonuses, and if there's some kind of "relationship" system that provides me bonuses, then I'm going to take them.

The issue with the approval system in DAO is that I ended up agreeing with positions I didn't agree with simply because I didn't want to lose approval. I never told Zevran that I thought murder was wrong. I never told Morrigan that her world-view was skewed. I chose safe answers all the time and I ended up building a character that didn't really believe in anything.

With Friendship/Rivalry, I put a lot more effort into character-building because I was no longer required to just blanketly agree with everything the PC said. My "good guy" tendencies rubbed Isabela the wrong way, as did my pro-mage position with Sebastian (coupled with my insistence that he re-take his throne). But I didn't have to worry about seeing them leave, which in the end was a lot more freeing for myself.

The system isn't perfect and it does need some refinement. For instance, you can free every Circle mage that comes your way, but if you rival Anders, he acts like you give out free handjobs to templars. And I think we need to call it something other than "Friendship/Rivalry", since that seems to stick in people's minds as "Good/Bad" for some reason.

Ultimately, however, I think it leads to more nuanced relationships and helps the re-play value of the game.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 04 janvier 2013 - 01:26 .

[caridounette]

Not to hop on the <why are you taking it so serioulsy, OP ?> train but.. maybe youre looking at it the wrong way. Theres jsut as much bonus conversation stuff if you upset someone and get him to yell at you then if you get to the <youre my bestest friend> status. All it gives you is choices.

Wouldnt it actually be weird if Fenris wasnt upset at you encouraging slavery and mages or if Anders wasnt whining at your pro Templar character? If no one could turn on you after you recruited them, things would get pretty static.

Now could they have implemented the friendship/rivalry better: Yes of course. Too predictable, not enough punishing (gotta wonder why some ppl stay with you after a while of offending them...), not enough rewarding (characters endup helping you the same way no matter what), etc etc.

Approval wasnt perfect either... anyone remember the silly gift mechanism... but the personal gifts did have the advantage to open some convo option with the characters. What the gifts could be nice for tho is if you decided to like some character at a later point in the game (because of something they did at some point or other roleplay reason), then you could use the gifts to make it up.

[LinksOcarina]

It was a more realistic interpretation of how people behave, and I liked that a LOT over the approval system in the end, which only rewarded friendships.You gained rewards for rivalries too, and actually helped in the role-playing to make the characters belivable. 

So yes, I liked it. 

Another thing to add, real quick.

Is Rivalry  truely negative? 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 04 janvier 2013 - 01:34 .

[caridounette]

thats1evildude wrote...

I like bonuses, and if there's some kind of "relationship" system that provides me bonuses, then I'm going to take them.

The issue with the approval system in DAO is that I ended up agreeing with positions I didn't agree with simply because I didn't want to lose approval. I never told Zevran that I thought murder was wrong. I never told Morrigan that her world-view was skewed. I chose safe answers all the time and I ended up building a character that didn't really believe in anything.

With Friendship/Rivalry, I put a lot more effort into character-building because I was no longer required to just blanketly agree with everything the PC said. My "good guy" tendencies rubbed Isabela the wrong way, as did my pro-mage position with Sebastian (coupled with my insistence that he re-take his throne). But I didn't have to worry about seeing them leave, which in the end was a lot more freeing for myself.

The system isn't perfect and it does need some refinement. For instance, you can free every Circle mage that comes your way, but if you rival Anders, he acts like you give out free handjobs to templars. And I think we need to call it something other than "Friendship/Rivalry", since that seems to stick in people's minds as "Good/Bad" for some reason.

Ultimately, however, I think it leads to more nuanced relationships and helps the re-play value of the game.

That reminds me of my first DAO playthrough.

When i think about it, the whole Blight situation kinda made it so you always feel safer to jsut smile and nod... cause the end of the world isnt the perfect time to try and tell someone who is helping you out how they should live their life.

afterward i did more experiments with some strong minded characters and it led me to know the NPCs better, so theres that too.

[Mummy22kids]

I far preferred the rivalry/friendship method than just the approval method. I think it felt more "real". In my first playthrough of DA2 I didn't have Fenris very high either way and he left to fight alongside Meredith, until I challenged him by telling him that I thought he opposed slavery in any form (then he joined me). That seemed a more genuine response than someone liking me just because I give them lots of presents. Also, the chance for Isabela to not return when she gets the Qunari book seems to fit her character if she doesn't feel close enough to you to come back.

[cowoline]

Me.

[The Spirit of Dance]

Dhiro wrote...

I do.

[Conquerthecity]

 The Friendship/Rivalry system basically turned the entire first act of DA2 into the Pander to or Frustrate Isabela Game, which totally broke immersion because I spent most of my time checking whether I had the necessary points for either. Assuming I wanted to keep her, that is. I wouldn't mind so much as long as keeping a companion didn't depend on it. 

Modifié par Mungolian_, 04 janvier 2013 - 02:40 .

[hoorayforicecream]

I would rather they improve the friendship/rivalry system than go back to/improve the old approval/disapproval system.

[Althix]

- Songlian - wrote...
ability bonuses attached to it

I think this is case and point. Why it should even be that way?

p.s. Friend/Rival is still superior to Approval. More RPGish.

Modifié par secretsandlies, 04 janvier 2013 - 02:42 .

[NoForgiveness]

i like it. i dont feel the need to be a kiss ass towards my friends. just doing their quests and not being a dbag to them is good enough for me.

[Wyattbw09]

I think that Friendship/Rivalry was far far superior to the approval system. The approval system was just buy gifts, give gifts, profit.

[NoForgiveness]

Wyattbw09 wrote...

I think that Friendship/Rivalry was far far superior to the approval system. The approval system was just buy gifts, give gifts, profit.

so glad they got rid of the nonplot gifts

[Face of Evil]

Warden: Morrigan, you suck. You suck so much. I can't stand you. I hate everything about you. If I could, I would feed you to the darkspawn, you rotten slag. By the way, here's five dog bones.

Morrigan: Want to have sex in the bushes?

Warden: Yeah, all right.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 04 janvier 2013 - 03:00 .

[gneisenau556]

I like friendship/rivalry, but I think you should be able to offend your companions to the point where they leave you.