213 réponses à ce sujet

[bleetman]

I never really saw it as particularly different to the approval/disapproval system from DA:O, with the exception of being smaller in scope (to the point where I could generally cap out my companjions one way or another without necessarily having to take them with me) and rivalry not being presented as inherently negative. Disapproving/not-high-enough-approval companions would still ditch/attack you in Origins under certain circumstances. Rivalry is at least an equally viable path.

Not that I don't think it could use work, but no. I liked it.

Modifié par bleetman, 04 janvier 2013 - 03:18 .

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

I like the friendship/ rivalry system. I loved pursuing an antagonistic romance with Fenris. I hope BioWare brings it back in DA3. I don't need my companions to like me, I just need their loyalty.

[upsettingshorts]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I would rather they improve the friendship/rivalry system than go back to/improve the old approval/disapproval system.

[Kloreep]

bleetman wrote...

I never really saw it as particularly different to the approval/disapproval system from DA:O, with the exception of being smaller in scope (to the point where I could generally cap out my companjions one way or another without necessarily having to take them with me) and rivalry not being presented as inherently negative. Disapproving/not-high-enough-approval companions would still ditch/attack you in Origins under certain circumstances. Rivalry is at least an equally viable path.

Not that I don't think it could use work, but no. I liked it.

Agreed. DA2's attitude system was better than DAO, but could still use work. I think the main failing of it is that if you see-saw back and forth in the middle, you end up with (or rather stay in) the same place. I think the direction the system needs to improve in is by going even further in the direction DA2 took it. I'd like to see attitude points become focused even more on being a tonal/directional guide and even less "get X more points in the correct direction in order to unlock the next conversation in your relationship with Follower."

I'm fine with attitude meters forcing certain branches in Follower plots - but it's a lot more disappointing (and more content that gets completely locked away) if it's just a gate.

Modifié par Kloreep, 04 janvier 2013 - 03:33 .

[Nomadiac]

OP: If your complaint is that 'there will be additional conversations and ability bonuses attached to it', then how do you not have an issue with Approval in DAO?
And yes, I do prefer Friendship/Rivalry over Approval, though I think the ideal would be having both so that companions can still end up hating you and leaving.

[PrinceLionheart]

Having an approval meter like DAO's meant you were meta gaming to avoid your companions wildly different personalities from going down or buying their approval off with gifts.

Friendship/Rivalry was better. It needs more fine tuning to ensure that it's not just slightly different dialogue.

[Shevy]

I liked the concept behind it and imo BioWare should improve on it instead of switching back to Origins system. Friendship/Rivalry allows more depth and doesn't feel gamey like Approval/Disapproval.

[ohnotherancor]

Dhiro wrote...

I do.

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I would rather they improve the friendship/rivalry system than go back to/improve the old approval/disapproval system.

[Iosev]

I liked Bioware's attempt at allowing the player to disagree with his or her companions, and yet still allow their relationships to progress. Of course there's certainly room for improvement, but I'm hoping that Bioware continues in that direction (or move towards a new one), rather than simply go back to the approval/disapproval system.

And I'll be honest, the friendship/rivalry system is probably one of the main reasons why I replayed Dragon Age 2 so much.

[force192]

I thought that it was a good concept but it could have been done better. So yes, I liked it. So I hope that they work on improving it rather then trying to create a new system.

[PsychoBlonde]

thats1evildude wrote...

The system isn't perfect and it does need some refinement. For instance, you can free every Circle mage that comes your way, but if you rival Anders, he acts like you give out free handjobs to templars. And I think we need to call it something other than "Friendship/Rivalry", since that seems to stick in people's minds as "Good/Bad" for some reason.

Ultimately, however, I think it leads to more nuanced relationships and helps the re-play value of the game.

I agree with you--they're still refining this whole system.  Personally, I think they could do it in that you accumulate "standing" with your companions, that's the meter side of it, and it's largely just a measure of how much you've hung out with them and shared experiences that were important to them.  Kind of like with your friends/family--you may disagree with them on a lot of things but still be close simply because they were THERE WITH YOU and STOOD BY YOU when important **** went down.

Apart from that meter, I think Friendship/Rivalry would work best as a SWITCH that can get flipped by really major events/disagreements.  I think this would allow for the slightly more nuanced behavior you're looking for.  If you have enormous standing invested in a given companion and then suddenly do something where they're like BOOM RIVAL, they'll try to argue with you, maybe even go behind your back, but they'll still come back and try to work things out and maintain the existence of the relationship, it'll just change in some way.  If you do that and you have LOW standing with them, they'll either try to kill you or leave.  Low standing + friend will get you stuff like "huh, maybe you're not such a twit after all", whereas high standing + friend would be more like "I LOVE YOU, MAN!" 

It may not solve all the issues, but I think it'd be a functional system.  And, you could also get your "different dialog" etc. for just leaving them at low approval and then telling them to **** off.  Ideally, this could be really hilarious or otherwise entertaining.

As for the bonuses--I found them to be inconsequential, to be honest, couldn't tell whether they were functioning or not.

[Matchy Pointy]

I like it. The more there is behind your companions being friends, the better. Disliked the simplicity in ME", do one mission for them and you are friends forever.

[LinksOcarina]

Mungolian_ wrote...

 The Friendship/Rivalry system basically turned the entire first act of DA2 into the Pander to or Frustrate Isabela Game, which totally broke immersion because I spent most of my time checking whether I had the necessary points for either. Assuming I wanted to keep her, that is. I wouldn't mind so much as long as keeping a companion didn't depend on it. 

Thats called metagaming. That should have no bearing on how the system works, that is you trying to gain the system. 

[thats1evildude]

Mungolian_ wrote...

The Friendship/Rivalry system basically turned the entire first act of DA2 into the Pander to or Frustrate Isabela Game, which totally broke immersion because I spent most of my time checking whether I had the necessary points for either. Assuming I wanted to keep her, that is. I wouldn't mind so much as long as keeping a companion didn't depend on it.

Don't blame Friendship/Rivalry for that. Your beef is with the story, not the system. If this was DAO and you needed +50 Approval to keep Morrigan from leaving halfway through the game, then you would be faced with the exact same problem.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 04 janvier 2013 - 06:38 .

[Gazardiel]

Another vote for Friendship/Rivalry; it made me think more about how my Hawke related to the companions. Also, it made it a bit easier to keep conflicting companions in the party together - Fenris and Anders, Aveline and Isabela - because you could progress in your relationships with them both, just in different directions. Fenris (rival) sees me support Anders (friend) and is forced to reevaluate his outlook on life.

On unlocked abilities - I would be interested to see more unlocked, maybe even a specialty branch, based on F/R. I found myself trying to decide whether I wanted to support Merrill's blood magic by enabling her because her unlock makes that skill much more useful. That would allow even more companion customization based on story elements (probably too much, but it would be interesting).

[New Display Name]

The approval system in DA:O is bad because you get so much more content if approval is high.
In DA2, you can still talk to your companion even if you disagree with them. Which is better.

However, if you end up having equalish friendship/rival with a companion, you may not be able to progress through their conversations.

It'd be better if conversations were unlocked through story progression and/or total amount of relationship points in general (friendship or rival).

[Bob Garbage]

It allows for variety in play style, both in conversations and game play. Why ANYONE into Dragon Age wouldn't want that, is seriously confusing to me.

[karushna5]

I adored the new system! It made the characters far more involved than any other bioware game. They had thoughts and ideas about what you did, and I also like that getting a minus is not bad and instead getting rivalry which would give you very different plot lines with them. A rival Anders who you can redeem and right his wrong by fighting the mages, or a friendshiped Merrill who you try to protect from her worst nature. It is a very different story, and whole games can be played just by deciding who to Friendship and who to Rival. They react differently and the only bad thing is to just not care. One of the most amazing things about DA 2.

The approval system rarely came up in DA O and in Mass effect didn't matter at all, unless you did one quest, and thus the characters mattered not at all with any other part of the game. I like rivalry, friendship. And I dearly hope it stays.

[DarkSpiral]

I vastly preferred the friednship rivalry system over the approval/disapproval system, and for the same reasons others have listed above: it freed up my needing to pick specific dialogue choices in order to keep my people happy and effective. In DA2 I didn't have to worry about it. They could be unhappy and STILL be effective. Awesome.

[AshenSugar]

Sounds to me that you're treating the Friendship/Rivalry thing as a system that needs to be 'gamed' in order for you to 'win', carefully working out the required sequence of events the min/max the system in order to get the highest bonus score.

Doing this severely limits yourself as you'll be constantly choosing options that provide the best possible 'score', rather than ones that are natural to your character. Far better (in my opinion) to just go with the flow. If they disapprove of your actions, so be it - You're character is being true to their beliefs regardless.

[Zavox]

I liked the friendship/rivalry system, although I would very much prefer it to be hidden, or the option to hide it.

[thebigbad1013]

While it wasn't perfect, I very much preferred friendship/rivalry over the approval system of Origins.

[nightscrawl]

I liked the F/R system a lot. The main reason I liked it was because of the dynamic relationships. To me, the game plays very differently with a rival Anders versus a friend Anders, and I happen to greatly prefer the rival Merrill outcome to the friend outcome, and the friend Fenris to a rival Fenris (I always friend everyone else).

That said, the system did have issues. It did not distinguish between companions' opinions on issues like mages/templars and support for them personally.

A friend relationship with Anders automatically assumes you are a mage supporter while a rival relationship with him assumes you are anti-mage, even if the only thing you actually object to is his merging with Justice. Now, with Anders I can make allowances because I can see that he makes no such distinction, so in a way the game mechanics help that relationship. You are either with him or against him and there is no middle ground. He himself forces you to make a final decision, and even warns you about it earlier in the game.

That is not the case with Fenris. You can be a mage supporter and be against slavery, but the game doesn't allow for such nuances. Contrary to the opinions of many people on this board, I consider Fenris to be more moderate and open to logical discussion than Anders is, so for me that all-or-nothing of the F/R system does not fit him.

Because the game doesn't allow for more intricate relationships, specifically where companion AI remembers your actions and previous dialog, I game the system by switching them out for certain quests. In this way I can still build the character I want while still maintaining the relationship I want with the given follower.

Even though this seems like a lot of work, I actually do enjoy it because they payoff is worth it in the end. Also, after a third of the way through Act 2 I've already maxed out my F/R with most of them so I don't have to worry about switching people anymore.

Ponendus wrote...

I am not sure why you feel you need to go to that much effort? It is an arbitrary indicator of your current 'standing' with the companion at a given point throughout the game.

It's not arbitrary, neither in the case of DAO or DA2. Both of those systems had certain checkpoints that were required for events in the relationships to proceed. With DA2, some players have done exactly what you stated and gone with what their character would want. In some cases that can leave followers yo-yoing the entire time. In addition, the DA2 system had the additional factor of changing your interaction with a given companion based on friendship or rivalry. This also determines which followers side with you at the end, with the potential to have your numbers significantly reduced.

It's all very variable. You must remember that no two peoples' plays are alike. Different players prefer to bring along different followers and they will respond differently to dialog. For my first couple of plays Fenris, Varric, and Anders were my constant companions. Their bars went up and down a few times, but because I brought them with me ALL the time, and from my responses to them, I was still able to have them all with 100% friendship by the end. The result of this was that my other three followers never maxed out their meters.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 04 janvier 2013 - 09:27 .

[Alfa Kilo]

I like it and I would appreciate if there improved upon by removing that gorram meter. Make it hidden, please.