213 réponses à ce sujet

[AstraDrakkar]

The friendship/rivalry system is ok but it could really use some fine tuning.

[TransientNomad]

While I find the Friend/Rivel system was far and away superior to the simplistic "approvel" system, I'd rather do away with both.  You see the problem with both systems is that they seem to weaken the "character" of your allies.  Both systems had the loophole of if you want to gain the Friendship/approvel of character A but a certain choice you want to make they would lower their friendship points, they simply do not have to be present or just bribe them into liking you later.

Whatever system they choose to implement, I hope it has the following changes...

1.)  The choices you make effects ALL your allies views of you whether they are present or not.  Most often, they will learn of what you did anyway whether they were there or not.  

2.)  NO SLIDER OF ANY KIND!  They only way to dertermine how much a character likes or hates you would be based on dialogue or other subtle ways.

3.)  Have characters be more independent.  One of the things I liked about SWTOR character interaction is that most often, characters handled their problems themselves.  Only in the most extreme cases did they ask for your intervention.  Heck some got pissed off if you even suggested they needed help.  Case in point, one character in SWTOR was having daddy issues, and I, as a player, rolled my eyes thinking "Here goes another assassin quest."  Then she says, "I got this."  At that point, I thought to myseld, "Wow.  A Bioware character that doesn't need me to hold there hand to solve all of their problems."  And when she came back, she handled the problem in a way I most certainly wouldn't have had I been there.  I was disgusted at the characters actions, but that disgust came about because she was a evil character and written to be that way, not for lack of quality.

[TheJediSaint]

I like the Friendship/rivalry system myself. It essentially gave you two paths when dealing with your companions, which add a good deal of replay value to DA2.

[MoMan313]

 I like it... because with alistair I would betch with him all the time to suck his whinny ass up and I wish there wasn't so much a "hate" side as there was "I see your point side" aka rivarly...

The same with sten occasionaly, instead of a scorn, it would be more "Ok, this is the way you do things, I don't like it, but I will follow you"

However ever that is not to say I don't have issue with the system..

It was like this with fenris...

I would be nice to him, but then be really vocal about freeing the mages which ...got him in luke warm rivarly side.. and in the end betrayed me >_<

I kinda want where I push him to rivarly in oppinions but we're nice to each as friends sort of deal.. paaaah

There like needs to be a love, friendship, and THIS IS MY OPINION AND I AIN'T CHANGING IT bar ;P

[CELL55]

I think my main problem is that it lacks nuance. It's not "Merril and I are pretty good friends, but I don't agree with her stance on demons", it's "Merril and I don't really have a lot in common". It seems like the rivalry and friendship balance themselves out with some characters. Friendship/Rivalry only really allows for a yes/no relationship. You either agree with everything the character says or does, or you disagree about everything.

It's been a while, but I even seem to recall Anders believing that you supported Templars if you were in a rivalry with him, even if you supported Mages in reality. The system just doesn't mesh well with the situations that the game handles.

[Auintus]

I disliked the conflict of interests. I was pro-mage, but anti-slaver. My interactions with Fenris were...interesting. I'd like situations like that to be a little better set up.

[Auintus]

What I do want to see return is the effect you can have on your comrades.

Merril/Friend: Still stands by blood magic. Rival: Smashes eluvian, less supportive
Anders/Friend: Supports Justice. Seeks freedom for mages. Rival: Fights Justice, sees self as abomination.
Meanwhile, Fenris can get over his mage-hate, Isabela can become a more selfless person, and Sebastian can be pushed toward the Chantry or retaking his throne.

I liked that. I would like to see it return. Not an enormous change in companion opinions, but something small.

Modifié par Auintus, 09 janvier 2013 - 08:07 .

[OMTING52601]

I'd like to see a blend of both, or maybe a better blend would be more accurate. There were a plethora of gifts that could be given in DA:O and many more of them had companion interactions attached. Unlike the few gifts in DA2, which were static and flat out told the player to whom they belonged. I found it much more rewarding to actually talk with Morrigan and hear her tale about the stolen, then broken, mirror, which I found later and was genuinely excited to give her, that to come across the Book of Shartan and then dump it on Fenris, who only offered up a couple of words about slaves not being allowed to read.

The other thing about Friendship/Rivalry - while getting rid of the irritating 'this party member is going to fight you and die' aspect of the approval set up from Origins - it also was the root of it's own problem. Oh, I didn't manage to get x, y, or z's F/R to this percentage, so their QB never popped up and now, at the games end, I'm forced to try and coerce them into siding with me? It needs to be refined so that by it's very nature it doesn't cause many players to revert to meta-gaming in order to get plot/character relevant interactions to happen. In Origins, if I didn't have enough approval for something to happen, but came across an appropriate gift, I could give it and still have access to the character important dialogues/interactions. In DA2, that isn't possible.

So a more refined F/R, with more approval/disapproval implementations, as well as more companion interactions, would be great IMO. The static interactions of DA2 were really a step-back, for me, from what I had expected after Origins, and made most of the companions seem very flat and uninteresting - with the exception of Varric, who IMO was delightfully well-written and because he was such an interesting character, I took him everywhere, and so got to hear nearly all of his commentary, which gave him depth. The rest of the 'crew', sadly, not so much.

Of course, FWIW.

[katiebour]

 I loved friendship/rivalry in contrast to DA:O's approval system- I felt like the differing aspects of the relationship helped me see different sides of the characters.  In DA2, Friendship seems to me to be the path where Hawke supports the characters and helps them to believe in themselves; Rivalry, in contrast, says "Doubt yourself and believe in me, because I know best."

The characters grow dynamically based on how you treat them- a rivaled Sebastian, for example, will say in the endgame "You're the one who taught me that it's the ends that matter, not the means."  By rivaling him, you've encouraged his ambitious side at the expense of his more traditionally moral side.

Anders either accepts who he and Justice are and celebrates his cause, or fights his further fracturing personality and despairs.

In my first playthrough I seesawed my way through the game with Fenris and was forced to kill him at the end.  I had a sort of uneasy friendship with him.  In subsequent PTs, I maxed him out at both ends of the spectrum and saw different sides to who he was- my Hawke's actions and reactions shaped his own (try blackmailing Thrask with him and Aveline both in party sometime.)

I thought it was really interesting because it's sort of a way to be able to see the best and worst in these characters, and the extremes of which they are capable.  To me that's a far better mechanic than simply having someone leave your party, or giving them feastday gifts etc. and listening to them coo at you.

[Ellyria]

Despite my obvious love of the KOTOR system with convo/plot flags factoring into conversations and not numbers (Mass Effect did this as well), I'm more likely to love the Friendship/Rivalry system as long as they incorperate convo/plot flags into it. So I don't have to hear Merrill scream about how I didn't give her that tool (forget the name) even if I did, how Anders says I'm a Templar lover even if I'm not, etc, etc.

TransientNomad wrote...

3.)  Have characters be more independent.  One of the things I liked about SWTOR character interaction is that most often, characters handled their problems themselves.  Only in the most extreme cases did they ask for your intervention.  Heck some got pissed off if you even suggested they needed help.  Case in point, one character in SWTOR was having daddy issues, and I, as a player, rolled my eyes thinking "Here goes another assassin quest."  Then she says, "I got this."  At that point, I thought to myseld, "Wow.  A Bioware character that doesn't need me to hold there hand to solve all of their problems."  And when she came back, she handled the problem in a way I most certainly wouldn't have had I been there.  I was disgusted at the characters actions, but that disgust came about because she was a evil character and written to be that way, not for lack of quality.

I've seen both sides argued, some people were mad that their companions didn't want them along and some didn't care. I wonder if it was a resource issue more than anything because your very first companion (except the Knight's, it was their second companion) had quests that you could actually do with them and then the other four just had conversations.

[blueumi]

I really liked how it made for different romance with the passionate soulmate love or love hate relationship
I also liked the three personality types hawke could have

[Tempest_]

I think it worked a lot better than the approval rating in Origins.

I think conversation options became quite limited if approval was low in Origins. The only thing I would say is whilst the variation between friend and rival relationships is sufficient in DA2, even more would be great.

[Foolsfolly]

In my experience most players think they're getting punished if content gets locked out. Like/Dislike locked out dialogue and those passive skills and character quests. So for many players you were punished for gaining dislike points.

Friend/Rival got rid of that. And as such I see it as the better of the two systems so far.

[Paul Sedgmore]

Quote the Raven wrote...

I think it worked a lot better than the approval rating in Origins.

I think conversation options became quite limited if approval was low in Origins. The only thing I would say is whilst the variation between friend and rival relationships is sufficient in DA2, even more would be great.

Especially after gifts were taken into account, it was far too easy to abuse Origins reputation system.

As for the friendship rivalry system it would be nice to see some decisions affect all companions to add some more complexity to the system