There are still some people, even after the EC, who believe the IT. I also believed it, but after the EC came out I eventually realized it wasn't true.
However, some still believe BW is hiding something or saving the IT for a future DLC. Since none of that is happening unfortunately, why doesn't BW simply make a statement, saying that it isn't true? Just a simple tweet would suffice, anything.
Why does Bioware refuse to deny the Indoctrination Theory?
Débuté par
Pantanplan
, janv. 04 2013 09:10
Retour en haut
#2
Posté 04 janvier 2013 - 09:12
StoneSwords
-
- Members
- 162 messages
because believe it or not, IT makes up a decent sized part of the fanbase, and they don't want to alienate those people. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for it to be true, but after all this time, it's very unlikely
#3
Posté 04 janvier 2013 - 09:13
LieutenantSarcasm
-
- Members
- 527 messages
I thought this has been made clear.
S-P-E-C-U-L-A-T-I-O-N.
The endings were supposed to be vague, and they are certainly doing their best at keeping it that way.
S-P-E-C-U-L-A-T-I-O-N.
The endings were supposed to be vague, and they are certainly doing their best at keeping it that way.
#4
Posté 04 janvier 2013 - 09:19
Peranor
-
- Members
- 4 003 messages
Well... The Indoctrination Theory certainly involves lots and lots of speculation. And that is what Bioware wanted after all. So it would be kind of stupid to officially go out and deny the Indoctrination Theory when the IT people are doing just what Bioware wanted them to do.
#5
Posté 04 janvier 2013 - 09:21
Pantanplan
-
- Members
- 556 messages
Then BW really is a bunch of ********. They use negativity and fan desperation to gain fame through "speculation".anorling wrote...
Well... The Indoctrination Theory certainly involves lots and lots of speculation. And that is what Bioware wanted after all. So it would be kind of stupid to officially go out and deny the Indoctrination Theory when the IT people are doing just what Bioware wanted them to do.
#6
Posté 04 janvier 2013 - 09:37
AlanC9
-
- Members
- 35 594 messages
What's the upside of ruling out IT? The downside is obvious, and I don't see any actual benefit to Bio or anyone else if they rule it out.
#7
Posté 04 janvier 2013 - 09:39
Daniel_N7
-
- Members
- 435 messages
Why? Maybe it's because the Indoctrination Theory is better than what MW and CH came up with. If you ask me, it's possibly the greatest plot twist in the history of not only video games but science fiction. And BioWare missed it...
Modifié par Daniel_N7, 04 janvier 2013 - 09:40 .
#8
Posté 04 janvier 2013 - 09:41
thebigbad1013
-
- Members
- 771 messages
They intentionally left the ending open to interpretation so it would be counterproductive for them to rule anything out.
#9
Posté 04 janvier 2013 - 09:43
AllThatJazz
-
- Members
- 2 758 messages
They wanted the game to be open-ended enough to encourage debate, theories and yes, speculation - presumably to keep interest in the game going well after release. Despite the negative bias of much of that debate (particularly before the EC), they've pretty much succeeded in that, though probably not in the manner they would have wished. Declaring a sizeable number of fans 'wrong' wouldn't do anyone any good at this point.
#10
Posté 04 janvier 2013 - 09:43
Galbrant
-
- Members
- 1 566 messages
Modifié par Galbrant, 04 janvier 2013 - 09:44 .
#11
Posté 04 janvier 2013 - 09:46
Ishiken
-
- Members
- 213 messages
Leaving your fans dissatisfied is not exactly the way to a successful business.AllThatJazz wrote...
They wanted the game to be open-ended enough to encourage debate, theories and yes, speculation - presumably to keep interest in the game going well after release. Despite the negative bias of much of that debate (particularly before the EC), they've pretty much succeeded in that, though probably not in the manner they would have wished. Declaring a sizeable number of fans 'wrong' wouldn't do anyone any good at this point.
#12
Posté 04 janvier 2013 - 09:51
dorktainian
-
- Members
- 4 409 messages
because the ending is such a cluster.... that not ruling out IT gives their art meaning?
#13
Posté 04 janvier 2013 - 10:00
AllThatJazz
-
- Members
- 2 758 messages
Ishiken wrote...
Leaving your fans dissatisfied is not exactly the way to a successful business.AllThatJazz wrote...
They wanted the game to be open-ended enough to encourage debate, theories and yes, speculation - presumably to keep interest in the game going well after release. Despite the negative bias of much of that debate (particularly before the EC), they've pretty much succeeded in that, though probably not in the manner they would have wished. Declaring a sizeable number of fans 'wrong' wouldn't do anyone any good at this point.
I did say 'probably not in the manner they would have wished'
Regardless, I still see more threads popping up about ME3 on various gaming forums than most other, more recent titles. Yes, much of the interest is negative. But it's still there - and it's possible they could turn it around, I'm waiting until the end of the dlc cycle to be absolutely sure ...
#15
Posté 04 janvier 2013 - 10:13
nos_astra
-
- Members
- 5 047 messages
IT is a good headcanon that can fix some of the issues. I just don't get why some of these guys insist that it's Bioware's "headcanon", too.
Hm, for me it's pretty clear that the Bioware-intentionally-keeps-the-true-ending-a-secret is wishful thinking. It was unlikely to begin with and it's getting more unlikely with each passing minute.
In my book Bioware was clear enough that this wasn't where they were going. The EC is a pretty strong hint. However, if someone is dead set on holding tight onto that particular straw, even now that we're slowly getting closer to the one year mark, so be it. The Bioware guys are not so cruel as to rob them of their illusions. After all they go on and on about how awesome the ending is and willingly gobble up whatever Bioware releases, hoping that this will prove IT.
Hm, for me it's pretty clear that the Bioware-intentionally-keeps-the-true-ending-a-secret is wishful thinking. It was unlikely to begin with and it's getting more unlikely with each passing minute.
In my book Bioware was clear enough that this wasn't where they were going. The EC is a pretty strong hint. However, if someone is dead set on holding tight onto that particular straw, even now that we're slowly getting closer to the one year mark, so be it. The Bioware guys are not so cruel as to rob them of their illusions. After all they go on and on about how awesome the ending is and willingly gobble up whatever Bioware releases, hoping that this will prove IT.
Modifié par klarabella, 04 janvier 2013 - 10:14 .
#16
Posté 04 janvier 2013 - 10:20
Gervaise
-
- Members
- 4 523 messages
The whole point about having different resolutions is that the end can be whatever you want it to be and you can also explain it to yourself in whatever way you wish. The FInal Hours confirmed 3 things:
- The writers wanted us to speculate.
- Originally the intention was that there would be no sequel, so no problem with continuity over different endings. The ending can literally be whatever you imagine it to be. And whatever you choose, the final epilogue confirms that ultimately there are no more harvests. Any future Mass Effect would be set either during or before the conflict (whether they have changed their minds over this is anyone's guess)
- Originally it was the intention to actually have the player lose control of Shepard's movements towards the end, as though the Reapers had gained some sort of control over Shepard. This was not possible to implement and still allow dialogue choices apparently but with thinking running along those lines, it is entirely legitimate to think that what happens at the end involves some degree of attempted indoctrination, even if Shepard isn't actually indoctrinated or that the player's choice is indicative of whether that attempt succeeded either wholly or partly.
Whilst it would be interesting to know exactly what the writers intended, it would also likely invalidate many people's personal idea of what happened. Would that make the final result any better?
- The writers wanted us to speculate.
- Originally the intention was that there would be no sequel, so no problem with continuity over different endings. The ending can literally be whatever you imagine it to be. And whatever you choose, the final epilogue confirms that ultimately there are no more harvests. Any future Mass Effect would be set either during or before the conflict (whether they have changed their minds over this is anyone's guess)
- Originally it was the intention to actually have the player lose control of Shepard's movements towards the end, as though the Reapers had gained some sort of control over Shepard. This was not possible to implement and still allow dialogue choices apparently but with thinking running along those lines, it is entirely legitimate to think that what happens at the end involves some degree of attempted indoctrination, even if Shepard isn't actually indoctrinated or that the player's choice is indicative of whether that attempt succeeded either wholly or partly.
Whilst it would be interesting to know exactly what the writers intended, it would also likely invalidate many people's personal idea of what happened. Would that make the final result any better?
Modifié par Gervaise, 04 janvier 2013 - 10:21 .
#17
Posté 04 janvier 2013 - 10:23
Dr_Extrem
-
- Members
- 4 092 messages
but - at some point, bioware has to "drop the trousers" and tell us, whats what.
if IT is true, the plot is not concluded - the reapers are still reaping and its up to shepard to stop them. otherwise, there would be no reason to resist indoctrination in the first place.
imo, they will wait until the last moment to conclude the story - if they do it at all. i believe, that bioware is happy, that some fans dug out a bone and think its the "solution of striking simplicity".
if me4 is going to be a sequel, we will know what happened - if we are still here.
if IT is true, the plot is not concluded - the reapers are still reaping and its up to shepard to stop them. otherwise, there would be no reason to resist indoctrination in the first place.
imo, they will wait until the last moment to conclude the story - if they do it at all. i believe, that bioware is happy, that some fans dug out a bone and think its the "solution of striking simplicity".
if me4 is going to be a sequel, we will know what happened - if we are still here.
Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 04 janvier 2013 - 10:24 .
#18
Posté 04 janvier 2013 - 10:57
KyreneZA
-
- Members
- 1 882 messages
Final Hours seems to imply that they didn't miss it entirely. The player losing control of Shepard/controlling an indoctrinated Shepard are pretty much po-tay-toe/po-tah-toe.Daniel_N7 wrote...
Why? Maybe it's because the Indoctrination Theory is better than what MW and CH came up with. If you ask me, it's possibly the greatest plot twist in the history of not only video games but science fiction. And BioWare missed it...
#19
Posté 04 janvier 2013 - 11:05
ElSuperGecko
-
- Members
- 2 314 messages
Instead of asking why they refuse to deny it (something that's been answered a million times, including by Bioware themselves), why don't you ask yourself why they continue to hint at it, including sequences in both the Extended Cut and Leviathan DLC's?
#20
Posté 04 janvier 2013 - 11:14
Zardoc
-
- Members
- 3 570 messages
What makes you think they care anymore?
#21
Posté 04 janvier 2013 - 11:16
davishepard
-
- Members
- 669 messages
They don't need to deny this crap theory. Anyone that still believes it after EC and Leviathan is pitiful, to say the least.
IT was undestandable before the EC, in response to the not-so-good endings, being a mean to deny everything that happened. That is not the case anymore.
IT was undestandable before the EC, in response to the not-so-good endings, being a mean to deny everything that happened. That is not the case anymore.
Modifié par davishepard, 04 janvier 2013 - 11:17 .
#22
Posté 04 janvier 2013 - 11:18
Daniel_N7
-
- Members
- 435 messages
Kyrene wrote...
Final Hours seems to imply that they didn't miss it entirely. The player losing control of Shepard/controlling an indoctrinated Shepard are pretty much po-tay-toe/po-tah-toe.Daniel_N7 wrote...
Why? Maybe it's because the Indoctrination Theory is better than what MW and CH came up with. If you ask me, it's possibly the greatest plot twist in the history of not only video games but science fiction. And BioWare missed it...
I'm assuming BioWare missed it based on the notion that they are not [likely] going to change or expand the ending in any way. Still, I'm in the hopeful section as well.
#23
Posté 04 janvier 2013 - 11:40
Indy_S
-
- Members
- 2 092 messages
Dr_Extrem is right. If IT is true, the story isn't finished. Bioware would have intentionally sold an unfinished product. That idea is more abhorrent than the original ending.
So the alternative is it's false. And Bioware hasn't ruled either way, strange but in-line with their "don't say anything about the ending" attitude.
And who the hell pronounces it 'po-tah-toe'?
So the alternative is it's false. And Bioware hasn't ruled either way, strange but in-line with their "don't say anything about the ending" attitude.
And who the hell pronounces it 'po-tah-toe'?
#24
Posté 04 janvier 2013 - 11:43
deatharmonic
-
- Members
- 464 messages
why should they even care? They don't need to go around dismissing or okay-ing every theory, I imagine they have work to get on with.
#25
Posté 04 janvier 2013 - 11:44
KyreneZA
-
- Members
- 1 882 messages
I hear you. If some form of plot twist (perhaps even indoctrinating the player to now accept choices given by a known enemy) were MaCasey's Artistic Integrity all along, they could have been a little bit more balsier with it. Including perhaps explaining or confirming it, rather than just defending it.Daniel_N7 wrote...
Kyrene wrote...
Final Hours seems to imply that they didn't miss it entirely. The player losing control of Shepard/controlling an indoctrinated Shepard are pretty much po-tay-toe/po-tah-toe.Daniel_N7 wrote...
Why? Maybe it's because the Indoctrination Theory is better than what MW and CH came up with. If you ask me, it's possibly the greatest plot twist in the history of not only video games but science fiction. And BioWare missed it...
I'm assuming BioWare missed it based on the notion that they are not [likely] going to change or expand the ending in any way. Still, I'm in the hopeful section as well.
