739 réponses à ce sujet

[Eryri]

SwobyJ wrote...

You were the chosen one!!!!!

Get ready.

:lol:Just so long as we're not stuck with Haydn Christiansen playing Shepard in the movie version.

[CronoDragoon]

ElSuperGecko wrote...
Too simplistic. There's more.

I edited my post to be a bit clearer, but 4 and 5 are a part of 3 insofar as the Catalyst is telling the truth about what the Crucible will physically, concretely do, which is all Shepard need concern himself with. His opinion on their beneficial nature or whether it solves the problem he's trying to solve should be irrelevant if we know he's telling the truth about what the Crucible does. Example: In Destroy it will destroy all synthetics and disable the relays, full stop. His dismissive "the chaos will return" is irrelevant.

I personally believe #4 (that he's telling the truth about the Crucible but that his opinion about the choices is wrong) and the first half of the first line of 5 (namely, I don't think he cares what happens to him in the sense of self-preservation. Rather, he thinks the cycles were truly the best option, and that Synthesis really is the best solution for everyone involved).

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 06 décembre 2013 - 09:57 .

[ElSuperGecko]

CronoDragoon wrote...
I personally believe #4 (that he's telling the truth about the Crucible but that his opinion about the choices is wrong) and the first half of the first line of 5 (namely, I don't think he cares what happens to him in the sense of self-preservation. Rather, he thinks the cycles were truly the best option, and that Synthesis really is the best solution for everyone involved).

AlanC9 wrote...
FWIW, your interpretation is identical to mine.

It's good to see we have some interpretations and ideas in common, at least!  

[Face of Darkness]

question for IT haters ONLY:


When you boarded the the derelict Reaper in ME2, did you leave it feeling like you may have been indoctrinated?

[ElSuperGecko]

Enemies everywhere! Go go go! Ah, I miss the old ME1 mercs. Didn't know what hit 'em.

[wolfhowwl]

Fan relations.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 08 décembre 2013 - 01:05 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

Face of Darkness wrote...

question for IT haters ONLY:


When you boarded the the derelict Reaper in ME2, did you leave it feeling like you may have been indoctrinated?

Not an IT hater, just an IT dissenter. But no, I didn't. The various audio and video journals showed that the science team was feeling things like headaches, hallucinations, memory loss, etc. Shepard didn't express any of those things.

[Deathsaurer]

I'd be more worried about Rho and TIM personally.

[CynicalShep]

My Shepard was a nutcase already. If anything, Reapers would be the ones going bonkers if they tried to indoctrinate him.
On a more serious note - you guys are using all the wrong examples. I think the IT is an excellent clinical example of what a person in denial is capable of but if Shepard ever HAD to be indoctrinated it would have been on his mission to pwn all the batarians (Object Rho).

[CynicalShep]

StreetMagic wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

My Shepard was a nutcase already. If anything, Reapers would be the ones going bonkers if they tried to indoctrinate him.
On a more serious note - you guys are using all the wrong examples. I think the IT is an excellent clinical example of what a person in denial is capable of but if Shepard ever HAD to be indoctrinated it would have been on his mission to pwn all the batarians (Object Rho).

I think they considered that direction, but since it's DLC, it's been abandoned. Seems to be something on their mind at least. Especially considering that Mac made the TIM comic around the same time, dealing with him getting indoctrinated by a similar artifact 30 years prior.

At the end of the day - Shepard is Space Jesus, the protagonist and bad@ss extraordinaire. That is why he didn't get indoctrinated. Incidentally, that's why none of his comrades in arms got indoctrinated either, even though I can argue that many of them are significantly weaker willed than the likes of TIM or Saren.

Modifié par CynicalShep, 08 décembre 2013 - 01:32 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

CynicalShep wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

My Shepard was a nutcase already. If anything, Reapers would be the ones going bonkers if they tried to indoctrinate him.
On a more serious note - you guys are using all the wrong examples. I think the IT is an excellent clinical example of what a person in denial is capable of but if Shepard ever HAD to be indoctrinated it would have been on his mission to pwn all the batarians (Object Rho).

I think they considered that direction, but since it's DLC, it's been abandoned. Seems to be something on their mind at least. Especially considering that Mac made the TIM comic around the same time, dealing with him getting indoctrinated by a similar artifact 30 years prior.

At the end of the day - Shepard is Space Jesus, the protagonist and bad@ss extraordinaire. That is why he didn't get indoctrinated. Incidentally, that's why none of his comrades in arms got indoctrinated either, even though I can argue that many of them are significantly weaker willed than the likes of TIM or Saren.

To continue the analogy, of course the squad mates never got indoctrinated, they are Shepard's disciples after all.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Face of Darkness wrote...

question for IT haters ONLY:


When you boarded the the derelict Reaper in ME2, did you leave it feeling like you may have been indoctrinated?

Well... I was not there. As to whether or not Shepard & squad were "indoctrinated" ... the answer is: no.

[Rotward]

Face of Darkness wrote...

question for IT haters ONLY:


When you boarded the the derelict Reaper in ME2, did you leave it feeling like you may have been indoctrinated?

I can't tell if you're being serious. 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

StreetMagic wrote...

Yes, no, maybe so. All of the answers are right. Or wrong. Or maybe right. Or maybe wrong. Lots of speculation for everyone. They got tired of writing the story for you.

No they aren't. The answer to this question is "no." Definitively.

[AlanC9]

Seriously?

[teh DRUMPf!!]

StreetMagic wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Yes, no, maybe so. All of the answers are right. Or wrong. Or maybe right. Or maybe wrong. Lots of speculation for everyone. They got tired of writing the story for you.

No they aren't. The answer to this question is "no." Definitively.

What makes you say so? I want to be injected with the same boost of confidence and self-assurance you have. No joke. I don't really know what to think anymore.

There are set rules in the lore on how certain imaginary aspects of the setting work -- things like mass-effect, omnitools, and... Indoctrination. With indoctrination, we know of several mechanics to it that prove this notion false.

-- Timeframe: indoctrination requires days-to-weeks to set in, and control of the thrall can last for months-to-years. Shepard was on the derelict Reaper for -- what -- a few hours? That's even less time than he/she spent around Object Rho.
-- Symptoms: we know from ME3 and ME novels what a first-person perspective of an indoctrinated thrall is: they hear whispers in their head. In ME3, the Reapers attempts to indoctrinate Shepard though TIM, and we the players can feel that process setting in. No such thing happened in ME2 nor does Shepard indicate feeling any typical symptoms.

^ this is one of the biggest holes with IT, IMO. If the Catalyst's dialogue was indoctrination, what was the TIM's dialogue -- indoctrination, within indoctrination? Say what you want about ME3's ending, but at least no divide-by-0 is required.

-- Technology: Prothean VIs from Vigil to Vendetta are capable of detecting indoctrination, and Vendetta does not sense indoctrination when met with Shepard and his squadmates (but he does detect it when Kai Lame appears).

You can always headcanon whatever you want, but certain interpretations flat-out break the lore. This is one of them.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 08 décembre 2013 - 03:29 .

[Rotward]

StreetMagic wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Yes, no, maybe so. All of the answers are right. Or wrong. Or maybe right. Or maybe wrong. Lots of speculation for everyone. They got tired of writing the story for you.

No they aren't. The answer to this question is "no." Definitively.

What makes you say so? I want to be injected with the same boost of confidence and self-assurance you have. No joke. I don't really know what to think anymore.

Arrival DLC couldn't happen if Shepard were already indoctrinated. Shepard would have allowed the reapers to arrive, like the indoctrinated alliance personnel. 

Also, TIM can't control the reapers because he's indoctrinated, but Shepard can because he or she is not indoctrinated. 

Modifié par Rotward, 08 décembre 2013 - 03:43 .

[Face of Darkness]

I'm amazed at people's confidence against indoctrination. Shepard has encountered the Reapers and so many individual situations where he has certainly felt their influence. There have been so many times where he clearly overcame indoctrination attempts, but at the cost of a very plausible ****** in the armor.

The derelict Reaper is one of the bigger foundations for IT, and it's very arguable that Shepard suffers his main ****** in the armor here. As said in one of the Cerberus Scientist vids; even though the Reaper is dead, it still warps space time just by being there. The scientists felt it's influence, and were slowly moved down a path over a time. The first sign was a scientist simply thinking he saw a brick in the wall move itself.

So when Shepard first sees Legion, a random Geth, who has randomly taken an N7 armor decoration, NONE of you IT haters thought hmmm.....thats weird. When it saves you from a husk (that somehow sneaks up on you) and then is the first Geth ever to talk to you, none of you saw that as weird? A Geth aboard a Reaper at the EXACT time TIM sends you to the Reaper is perfectly reasonable?

It just seems like so many of you view it as yea that was cool, and the Cerberus scientists getting indoctrinated sucks for them. But Shepard is too strong for that, so I'm not gonna bother even keeping this in the back of my mind as I continue to play

[ImaginaryMatter]

Face of Darkness wrote...

I'm amazed at people's confidence against indoctrination. Shepard has encountered the Reapers and so many individual situations where he has certainly felt their influence. There have been so many times where he clearly overcame indoctrination attempts, but at the cost of a very plausible ****** in the armor.

The derelict Reaper is one of the bigger foundations for IT, and it's very arguable that Shepard suffers his main ****** in the armor here. As said in one of the Cerberus Scientist vids; even though the Reaper is dead, it still warps space time just by being there. The scientists felt it's influence, and were slowly moved down a path over a time. The first sign was a scientist simply thinking he saw a brick in the wall move itself.

So when Shepard first sees Legion, a random Geth, who has randomly taken an N7 armor decoration, NONE of you IT haters thought hmmm.....thats weird. When it saves you from a husk (that somehow sneaks up on you) and then is the first Geth ever to talk to you, none of you saw that as weird? A Geth aboard a Reaper at the EXACT time TIM sends you to the Reaper is perfectly reasonable?

It just seems like so many of you view it as yea that was cool, and the Cerberus scientists getting indoctrinated sucks for them. But Shepard is too strong for that, so I'm not gonna bother even keeping this in the back of my mind as I continue to play

Um... are you saying Legion was a hallucination or something? Many of us did find Legion wierd, that's why we talked to it. Also a lot of husks sneak up on people, that's why they struggle with the Reaper IFF mission.

And again, the scientists displayed symptoms after being exposed over a long period of time, Shepard was there for a short time and did not display any of the symptoms afterwards, unless you're suggesting that one of the symptoms of Indoctrination is to hide most of the symptoms of indoctrination.