739 réponses à ce sujet

[ImaginaryMatter]

SwobyJ wrote...

People wave off Renegade Shepard's evil looking red eyes too.

I think the game had a reason for that too, even though it was kind of silly, something about stress. Anyway I've never actually had a super renegade Shepard so maybe I've never really noticed it before.

[AlanC9]

SwobyJ wrote...

Benezia yes. She had her 'real self' (looks more like multiple personalities btw..) hidden away in a portion of her consciousness while the rest got overwritten.

Saren? We don't know. If his was more direct from Sovereign, we don't know where his true self begins and ends, except when he says "Thank you, Shepard", I guess.

It's hard to reconcile Saren and Benezia's symptoms, yep. But neither of them thought that they were anyplace other than where they actually were.

FWIW, apparently the discarded indoctrination implementation was going to play out as a kind of possession, with the player losing control  of Shepard's body, or perhaps having it do things without orders. This isn't too far from the experience Benezia reports.

[MrMrPendragon]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Incidentally, nowhere in the definition is there a requirement for something to be "true" to be considered a "theory".

You're welcome.

Ah, my mistake.

And yeah, I think you misunderstood me at one of the parts. Although I should thank you for putting up the def.

Anywho...

I didn't say that there has to be something "true", I said that the requirement is that the possibility for it to come true must exist. (If I didn't say that at all in my previous post, I apologize, THAT'S what I meant) .

But the possibility doesn't exist, because, I'll say it again, there's already a set ending for ME3. Meaning, whatever speculation you cook up for the game - the ending will still exist and will still be followed.

Any and all deviations from the established story and ending,  like say,  IT, or MEHEM, is nothing more than fan fiction. Maybe if ME3 was an ongoing TV show, sure, all speculations have a chance of being valid since it hasn't wrapped up yet. But ME3 isn't that.

Anyway, I'll say it again. IT is a big part of the community, and outright denying it will alienate people who accept it as their own ending.

Not to mention denying it is unnecessary, there's no gain for Bioware. That's just being mean. Let the fans deny or accept it. Bioware doesn't need to join the fray.

[SwobyJ]

Mass Effect is an ongoing video game series.

[MrMrPendragon]

Yes, but IT mostly focuses on ME3's ending.

A game that is set and done.

[SwobyJ]

So? There were theories about The Illusive Man during ME2's time. That game is set and done, but some of the ideas about him turned out to be true. Oh noes!

[MrMrPendragon]

SwobyJ wrote...

So? There were theories about The Illusive Man during ME2's time. That game is set and done, but some of the ideas about him turned out to be true. Oh noes!

Long story short, the main part of IT is that it would turn out that Shepard hasn't really made a choice yet on the Crucible, he wakes up and kicks Reaper butt right?

The difference between what you said the one I'm quoting right now) and what I'm saying,  is that the
conflict of ME isn't over at ME2's time. There's still room to branch out.  Which is why all speculations are still valid.

This one however, is a different matter because Shepard's story ends at ME3. The Reapers are no longer a threat in all 3 endings (refusal doesn't count).


Say the story is like a flow chart, no matter which choice you take, it will still end at 3 choices - No matter what happens with the geth, the collector base, or whatever.  - You can't just draw a new line in the set flow chart that deviates from the established story and say "oh maybe this should happen and that should be here..."

I'm not trying to convince you to take my stance. You can take IT as your own ending. I'm just saying why Bioware isn't denying IT and why I think IT is fan fiction.

Modifié par ArcherTactlenecks, 09 janvier 2014 - 10:35 .

[SwobyJ]

IT goes that the choices are indoctrination. Nothing beyond that really. For all it goes, the choices could be something else on top of that. All it says is that something else is happening and that Shepard isn't awake yet.

I don't even believe in all of IT and I know that. ALL IT really is, is that indoctrination is happening post-beam. Big whoop, that's not hard to wonder about, and not hard for Bioware to follow up on.


EDIT: I don't take IT as my ending. I think Shepard is really on the Citadel and everything 'happened' (though note the ''s).

Modifié par SwobyJ, 09 janvier 2014 - 11:23 .

[Farangbaa]

AlanC9 wrote...

What I was thinking of WRT Leviathan was that AFAIK the Indoctrination symptoms IT posits aren't actually exhibited by any indoctrination victims prior to Leviathan. We don't see any of them lost in worlds of pure hallucination, do we? Benezia and Saren both knew where they were and what they were doing.

IT sounds like LSD or reaaaaaaaallly potent shrooms

[SwobyJ]

Psychevore wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

What I was thinking of WRT Leviathan was that AFAIK the Indoctrination symptoms IT posits aren't actually exhibited by any indoctrination victims prior to Leviathan. We don't see any of them lost in worlds of pure hallucination, do we? Benezia and Saren both knew where they were and what they were doing.

IT sounds like LSD or reaaaaaaaallly potent shrooms

It's like so damn crazy that a series that has the enemy's best weapon being Indoctrination, also has Indoctrination affect the protagonist. Truly, some crazy woo woo stuff.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 09 janvier 2014 - 11:53 .

[Farangbaa]

SwobyJ wrote...

Psychevore wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

What I was thinking of WRT Leviathan was that AFAIK the Indoctrination symptoms IT posits aren't actually exhibited by any indoctrination victims prior to Leviathan. We don't see any of them lost in worlds of pure hallucination, do we? Benezia and Saren both knew where they were and what they were doing.

IT sounds like LSD or reaaaaaaaallly potent shrooms

It's like so damn crazy that a series that has the enemy's best weapon being Indoctrination, also has Indoctrination affect the protagonist. Truly, some crazy woo woo stuff.

Ah yes, completely ignore the context of my post.

Give me more of this stupidity.

[Raikoh M]

My Speculation: Since late March of 2012 I never fully agreed with the Indoctrination theory as it all being "Just a Dream" though I do give credit to "Acayvos" and others that did "Speculate" on the events of the ending and at least presented something to state their case instead of arguing about it with people on the internet or sending death threats to people who make video games. I did however at the time, realize that the Indoctrination in question, didn't necessarily have to be directed at Shepard per se. I thought that the Reapers were breaking the 4th wall and trying to indoctrinate US as players so that we in turn could get Shepard to fulfill their wishes for them. I just think about it differently becuase I know how vastly insidious real life indoctrination is I mean after all, "Indoctrination" is simply just getting someone to conform to the ideas of someone or something else. so I thought about it like that and I was actually at peace with the vanilla and extended endings in question because after playing through and reloading my quicksaves and examining all of the choices at the end, at least my Shepard Killed the Reapers and lived after the fact. If the player or the "Organic mind" behind Shepard could agree with the collective intelligence of all Reapers and fulfill thier wishes for them then what was the point of anything mattering before or after that? My mentality is a little too nihilistic to ever believe that Peace can be achieved with anyone or anything that IN EFFECT does you harm. So the end result of War in any context will always be Destruction, anything else is a sugarcoated lie. So at the end of it all I had no choice  Destroy because"F--K MY ENEMIES!" Besides if I refused to do that then I would be destroyed along with everyone esle and the next cycle would do it for me and get the glory anyway...

[Dabrikishaw]

Why the **** did you necro this thread?

[Excella Gionne]

Loldoctrination Theory

[TheViper8234]

because that crap doesn't exists thats why ,get over it