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Why does Bioware refuse to deny the Indoctrination Theory?


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#101
FAButzke

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DeathScepter wrote...

FAButzke wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

FAButzke wrote...

I have to LOL every time I see a thread about IT.
"It's not dead yet" I think. Followed by: "Who am I kidding? Of course it's not dead. There are always people who cannot couple with the truth out there."

I have one question for ITers:
How many years would it take before you accept the hard truth that THERE ARE NO 'ENDING DLC' COMING?"
Five years? Ten?
Let's set a deadline so I can come back here after its expiration date and tell you: "See? Told you."

Now ask yourselves: Why would Bioware continue to release DLC to expand on a dream only to release one year later the TRUE AWESOME EPIC ENDING that only some of their fanbase are expecting and that would invalidate ALL what ALL players have played up until that point? Pardon me, but that's ilogical reasoning.

Jeez...



It is very logical to believe in IT and True Ending DLC. For EA is milking us out for money. 


Right...
Believers gonna believe.


Well you need work harder to change the believers minds. For we need you to believe. And Reapers are indoctrinating you to think the way you are thinking.





Red herring much?
I notice you still did not answer my question.
Perhaps you are the one indocrinated by the Reapers? :P

#102
AlanC9

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DeathScepter wrote...


Well you need work harder to change the believers minds. For we need you to believe. And Reapers are indoctrinating you to think the way you are thinking.


It's conceptually impossible to change the believers' minds with argument. The whole point of IT is that evidence and reason are irrelevant, since any evidence is just more indoctrination.

#103
DeathScepter

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FAButzke wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

FAButzke wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

FAButzke wrote...

I have to LOL every time I see a thread about IT.
"It's not dead yet" I think. Followed by: "Who am I kidding? Of course it's not dead. There are always people who cannot couple with the truth out there."

I have one question for ITers:
How many years would it take before you accept the hard truth that THERE ARE NO 'ENDING DLC' COMING?"
Five years? Ten?
Let's set a deadline so I can come back here after its expiration date and tell you: "See? Told you."

Now ask yourselves: Why would Bioware continue to release DLC to expand on a dream only to release one year later the TRUE AWESOME EPIC ENDING that only some of their fanbase are expecting and that would invalidate ALL what ALL players have played up until that point? Pardon me, but that's ilogical reasoning.

Jeez...



It is very logical to believe in IT and True Ending DLC. For EA is milking us out for money. 


Right...
Believers gonna believe.


Well you need work harder to change the believers minds. For we need you to believe. And Reapers are indoctrinating you to think the way you are thinking.





Red herring much?
I notice you still did not answer my question.
Perhaps you are the one indocrinated by the Reapers? :P


I do get checked often at Cerberus Labs. At the Cerberus Labs, we check for everything.  Don't worry, there will be some discomfort but reversing indoctrination is always fun. then you awake up with a major headache but it will go away.

#104
DeathScepter

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AlanC9 wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...


Well you need work harder to change the believers minds. For we need you to believe. And Reapers are indoctrinating you to think the way you are thinking.


It's conceptually impossible to change the believers' minds with argument. The whole point of IT is that evidence and reason are irrelevant, since any evidence is just more indoctrination.


Well All evidence for indoctrination is supported by lore And if you suspect you are being indoctrinated and having dreams of oily shadows. There is help.

#105
AlanC9

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And there we have it. There's indoctrination here, but they're doing it to themselves.

Modifié par AlanC9, 04 janvier 2013 - 07:02 .


#106
FAButzke

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DeathScepter wrote...

FAButzke wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

FAButzke wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

FAButzke wrote...

I have to LOL every time I see a thread about IT.
"It's not dead yet" I think. Followed by: "Who am I kidding? Of course it's not dead. There are always people who cannot couple with the truth out there."

I have one question for ITers:
How many years would it take before you accept the hard truth that THERE ARE NO 'ENDING DLC' COMING?"
Five years? Ten?
Let's set a deadline so I can come back here after its expiration date and tell you: "See? Told you."

Now ask yourselves: Why would Bioware continue to release DLC to expand on a dream only to release one year later the TRUE AWESOME EPIC ENDING that only some of their fanbase are expecting and that would invalidate ALL what ALL players have played up until that point? Pardon me, but that's ilogical reasoning.

Jeez...



It is very logical to believe in IT and True Ending DLC. For EA is milking us out for money. 


Right...
Believers gonna believe.


Well you need work harder to change the believers minds. For we need you to believe. And Reapers are indoctrinating you to think the way you are thinking.





Red herring much?
I notice you still did not answer my question.
Perhaps you are the one indocrinated by the Reapers? :P


I do get checked often at Cerberus Labs. At the Cerberus Labs, we check for everything.  Don't worry, there will be some discomfort but reversing indoctrination is always fun. then you awake up with a major headache but it will go away.


I see... So you are, in fact, indoctrinated and telling me I need to be as well. hehehe

#107
DeathScepter

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FAButzke wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

FAButzke wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

FAButzke wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

FAButzke wrote...

I have to LOL every time I see a thread about IT.
"It's not dead yet" I think. Followed by: "Who am I kidding? Of course it's not dead. There are always people who cannot couple with the truth out there."

I have one question for ITers:
How many years would it take before you accept the hard truth that THERE ARE NO 'ENDING DLC' COMING?"
Five years? Ten?
Let's set a deadline so I can come back here after its expiration date and tell you: "See? Told you."

Now ask yourselves: Why would Bioware continue to release DLC to expand on a dream only to release one year later the TRUE AWESOME EPIC ENDING that only some of their fanbase are expecting and that would invalidate ALL what ALL players have played up until that point? Pardon me, but that's ilogical reasoning.

Jeez...



It is very logical to believe in IT and True Ending DLC. For EA is milking us out for money. 


Right...
Believers gonna believe.


Well you need work harder to change the believers minds. For we need you to believe. And Reapers are indoctrinating you to think the way you are thinking.





Red herring much?
I notice you still did not answer my question.
Perhaps you are the one indocrinated by the Reapers? :P


I do get checked often at Cerberus Labs. At the Cerberus Labs, we check for everything.  Don't worry, there will be some discomfort but reversing indoctrination is always fun. then you awake up with a major headache but it will go away.


I see... So you are, in fact, indoctrinated and telling me I need to be as well. hehehe


no no, I am not indoctrinated. Just there is a lengthy process. No voices, No dreams of Oily shadow. NO Star brat telling me to throw myself into a green, blue or red beams. Now I don't have a desire to implant myself with Reaper Technology and I don't have a desire to implant anyone with Reaper Technology.

I do still have the urge to do mad science with Mantis DNA and make Super Solider in the traditional Cerberus way.

#108
thehomeworld

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Because they don't have to deny it the game does it for them. If you played all 3 games and went on the side quest to the exotic husk mines in ME and found the data you know lots about indoctrination while it seem like they wanted to go that way after Arrival when they switched themes from dark energy to retarded AI they also wrote out the shep gets indoctrinated and or hacked plot there for no longer applies. Shep is not indoctrinated for ME3 and does not become it he exhibits no signs just coincidences it's like I have a bad cold but you take the similarities of said bad cold to say he's got the flu.

#109
Maxster_

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Seboist wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

davishepard wrote...

They don't need to deny this crap theory. Anyone that still believes it after EC and Leviathan is pitiful, to say the least.
IT was undestandable before the EC, in response to the not-so-good endings, being a mean to deny everything that happened. That is not the case anymore.


IT is certainly an interesting case study in mass hysteria. All of this denial and delusion over a series where both sequels have some of the worst pulp schlock writing this side of Ed Wood and whose protagonist's only skills are pulling a trigger and hiding behind cover.

Certainly not Geralt :D

Anyway, this mass delusion is really strange. No part of it, from in-game, or from business perspective makes any sense, but still..

#110
DeathScepter

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Maxster_ wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

davishepard wrote...

They don't need to deny this crap theory. Anyone that still believes it after EC and Leviathan is pitiful, to say the least.
IT was undestandable before the EC, in response to the not-so-good endings, being a mean to deny everything that happened. That is not the case anymore.


IT is certainly an interesting case study in mass hysteria. All of this denial and delusion over a series where both sequels have some of the worst pulp schlock writing this side of Ed Wood and whose protagonist's only skills are pulling a trigger and hiding behind cover.

Certainly not Geralt :D

Anyway, this mass delusion is really strange. No part of it, from in-game, or from business perspective makes any sense, but still..



it does makes sense in game and from a business stand point. 

Business stand point: Games like ME3 can be completed or changed in DLC in order to make more money from the fans.

From a In game and game mechanic stand point, Oily shadow Dreams are one of many signs of indoctrination. And Another sign of indoctrination is subtle changes in behaviors including OOC behavior as well. Almost Derby in the OOC ness. 

#111
Dr_Extrem

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or its just shoddy and rushed writing/development .. but IT showes, that a publisher could get away with it AND make money with a "IT"-dlc.

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 04 janvier 2013 - 07:47 .


#112
Maxster_

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DeathScepter wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

davishepard wrote...

They don't need to deny this crap theory. Anyone that still believes it after EC and Leviathan is pitiful, to say the least.
IT was undestandable before the EC, in response to the not-so-good endings, being a mean to deny everything that happened. That is not the case anymore.


IT is certainly an interesting case study in mass hysteria. All of this denial and delusion over a series where both sequels have some of the worst pulp schlock writing this side of Ed Wood and whose protagonist's only skills are pulling a trigger and hiding behind cover.

Certainly not Geralt :D

Anyway, this mass delusion is really strange. No part of it, from in-game, or from business perspective makes any sense, but still..



it does makes sense in game and from a business stand point. 

Business stand point: Games like ME3 can be completed or changed in DLC in order to make more money from the fans.

.. By alienating whole fanbase, badly damage own reputation and make "True ending" DLC in a year, when almost no one from former fanbase would even care, and basically admit that game was falsely advertised.
Riight :wizard:

From a In game and game mechanic stand point, Oily shadow Dreams are one of many signs of indoctrination. And Another sign of indoctrination is subtle changes in behaviors including OOC behavior as well. Almost Derby in the OOC ness. 

Nah, it never made any sense. Reapers, altough utterly retarded in ME3, still have no reason to indoctrinate Shepard, because they already won. 

#113
Maxster_

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Dr_Extrem wrote...

or its just shoddy and rushed writing/development .. but IT showes, that a publisher could get away with it AND make money with a "IT"-dlc.

That statement requires some statistics.
You know, not only ITers buying ME3 DLCs :D

#114
Dr_Extrem

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Maxster_ wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

or its just shoddy and rushed writing/development .. but IT showes, that a publisher could get away with it AND make money with a "IT"-dlc.

That statement requires some statistics.
You know, not only ITers buying ME3 DLCs :D


i saw it merely from the "extanded dev time" pov ...

we buy their product. its shoddy and rushed. someone comes up with a good theory and the developer can finish the story according to this theory and sell it as a "clarification"-dlc.

before this dlc, the plot is just too deep and artsy. Image IPB

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 04 janvier 2013 - 07:52 .


#115
The Spamming Troll

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its the only thing some people are holding on to in terms of ME3. if they nullify that, this forum would be dead.

outside of the "this game doesnt make sense" threads of course.

#116
DeathScepter

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Maxster_ wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

davishepard wrote...

They don't need to deny this crap theory. Anyone that still believes it after EC and Leviathan is pitiful, to say the least.
IT was undestandable before the EC, in response to the not-so-good endings, being a mean to deny everything that happened. That is not the case anymore.


IT is certainly an interesting case study in mass hysteria. All of this denial and delusion over a series where both sequels have some of the worst pulp schlock writing this side of Ed Wood and whose protagonist's only skills are pulling a trigger and hiding behind cover.

Certainly not Geralt :D

Anyway, this mass delusion is really strange. No part of it, from in-game, or from business perspective makes any sense, but still..



it does makes sense in game and from a business stand point. 

Business stand point: Games like ME3 can be completed or changed in DLC in order to make more money from the fans.

.. By alienating whole fanbase, badly damage own reputation and make "True ending" DLC in a year, when almost no one from former fanbase would even care, and basically admit that game was falsely advertised.
Riight :wizard:

From a In game and game mechanic stand point, Oily shadow Dreams are one of many signs of indoctrination. And Another sign of indoctrination is subtle changes in behaviors including OOC behavior as well. Almost Derby in the OOC ness. 

Nah, it never made any sense. Reapers, altough utterly retarded in ME3, still have no reason to indoctrinate Shepard, because they already won. 


I don't deny that ME3 is a cluster ****.   Indoctrinating Shepard would be a great troll that Reapers did on the galaxy and it would demoralize the galaxy to have their greatest hero to be a Slave to them.

ME3 being a cluster **** due to ****ty timelines is what will alienating fanbase from bioware. In which I blame EA.

Bioware inwhich I do have in. In EA, Not so much. I am still butt hurt over the short deadlines of Obsidan with Kotor 2.

Also DLC is a good way to get more money out of people anyways. 

#117
Daniel_N7

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It just occurred to me that there is a simple way for BioWare to fix the ending of Mass Effect 3. Just insert three little words in the closing screen...

TO BE CONTINUED

Was that brilliant or what?
On a serious note, BioWare clearly refuses to deny the Indoctrination Theory because (1) it doesn't want to alienate a part of its fanbase and (2) indocrination as a concept was already a part of the storyline. aLucidMind said it elloquently: [bold highlights are mine]

_aLucidMind_ wrote...

Because the Indoctrination Theory is only partially true; it is obvious that Shepard is suffering from minor symptoms of indoctrination throughout the game. The dreams, TIM managing to control Shepard near the end, and so on; the thing is, the end is where IT is incorrect. Destroy isn't "breaking the Reapers' hold" or anything, EC proved these are the literal endings but the rest of the game is proof in and of itself that Shepard is suffering from the early onset symptoms of indoctrination. The Reapers haven't managed to get far enough into Shepard's head to control him/her before the ending, but it can be taken that they may have gotten close had Shepard not gone into the beam.

It was also one of BioWare's plans to make Shepard suffer from indoctrination as a major plot point, but scrapped it near the end of production. That's two reasons why BioWare does not say IT is false, a third being that IT theorists make up a large portion of the fanbase.


This final statement - regarding the intention of having the player loosing control of Shepard - was confirmed in The Final Hours for being too complex to implement gameplaywise.

Anyway, as said before, the fact that Indoctrination is a valid concept or interpretation doesn't mean that everything beyond the beam is in fact a dream. We should remember that the Indoctrination Theory was formulated in the aftermath of the dissapointment with the original ending - in which we basically saw the self-destruction of the Mass Effect universe - the Relays destroyed, the Citadel destroyed, Shepard dead, etc. It was too much to bear for many of us [edit: and people were grasping for straws]. Questions were raised. Answers were delivered via Twitter. It was a mess. Let's not relive it. But still...

Just because the Indoctrination Theory DLC is absolutely unlikely doesn't mean that an upcoming DLC may not still address the ending of the game. Because lets face it. The EC is better on an emotional level - we are shown that there is a future to the Mass Effect universe after all. But that doesn't make it an ending worthy of the trilogy in my opinion. Is this really the way BioWare wants to say goodbye to one of its most important series ever? Because let's face it, Mass Effect 4 will most likely be launched on a new console cycle and restart a new and independent storyline. So the ME3 DLC cycle has to close things in one way or another.

And BioWare will have to face watever consequences that determines to the future of the Mass Effect franchise.

Modifié par Daniel_N7, 04 janvier 2013 - 08:52 .


#118
GreyLycanTrope

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ZerebusPrime wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

You can cauterize internal bleeding?


Actually, yes.

I was not aware of this, how is it done?

#119
Humakt83

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Daniel_N7 wrote...

It just occurred to me that there is a simple way for BioWare to fix the ending of Mass Effect 3. Just insert three little words in the closing screen...

TO BE CONTINUED

Was that brilliant or what?


Holding the same carrot they used in ME 1 and 2 would possibly have pacified most of the whiners in need of pacifier.

Modifié par Humakt83, 04 janvier 2013 - 09:32 .


#120
Den3107neo

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I've experienced a lot of great emotions while playing the ME3 game. All of ME games, actually. But as time was passing I'm more and more unsatisfied with how developers ended their story even despite promises, that there will be no bad/good ending, they've made red/green/blue ending. Same with Extended Cut. So my only hope is that the Indoctrination Theary is true.

#121
JonathonPR

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An attempt to hold onto some trust with the players who hope it is true so they don't lose customers and can to some extent maintain an image that will attract new customers.

When Arthur Conan Doyle killed off Sherlock Holmes the Queen of England got mad at him so he had to bring the character back. Or when 4E Dungeons & Dragons came out and lost half their customer base to Pathfinder or other RPGs (I discovered GURPS and many more). Sometime you realise you have not made the best decisions so you try to do enough to placate customers that they remain.

#122
LinksOcarina

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Pantanplan wrote...

anorling wrote...


Well... The Indoctrination Theory certainly involves lots and lots of speculation. And that is what Bioware wanted after all. So it would be kind of stupid to officially go out and deny the Indoctrination Theory when the IT people are doing just what Bioware wanted them to do.

Then BW really is a bunch of ********. They use negativity and fan desperation to gain fame through "speculation".


Or, they want you to think for yourself. 

Nothing wrong with that now, right?

#123
Cyberstrike nTo

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The IT is only good up too when Shepard wakes up after choosing the Destroy ending, it IMHO doesn't offer much in what happens after Shepard wakes up in ruins of London.

#124
Possessed Turian

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Okay this is how indoctrination theory works. This is how to bring Shepard back.

A sequel to ME3. After Shepard destroys the Reapers, he finds he has yet to defeat them. Shepard awakes to find himself still aboard the semi dead reaper, in the ME2 universe, during the IFF mission. Shepard will use the knowledge he has gained during ME3 to stop the Reapers once and for all, but neither the Reapers or Cerberus is truly the greatest threat. Also a Tali male Shepard romance.

Right from my fan fiction summary had to take a lot of commas out space issue :(

#125
Farangbaa

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They're indoctrinated.