203 réponses à ce sujet

[chemiclord]

FlamingBoy wrote...

The whole vocal minority argument is there fore intangible and worthless because neither side can prove, or provide reasonable evidence beyond conjecture, that such a minority or majority exists.

Well, yes and no.

In a purely literal sense, the BSN is a very small segment of the Mass Effect fanbase, so yes, the group issuing complaints is a "vocal minority."

Now, whether or not that segment reflects the opinions of the fanbase as a whole... there's no empirical evidence one way or another.  Every poll that's been presented (either for or against the ending) represents such an absurdly small sample size that any attempts to glean conclusions from them is an exercise in foolishness.

[David7204]

You know things are bad when morons resort to childishly stupid arguments such as declaring anyone that disagrees with them is a "troll."

[FlamingBoy]

chemiclord wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

The whole vocal minority argument is there fore intangible and worthless because neither side can prove, or provide reasonable evidence beyond conjecture, that such a minority or majority exists.

Well, yes and no.

In a purely literal sense, the BSN is a very small segment of the Mass Effect fanbase, so yes, the group issuing complaints is a "vocal minority."

Now, whether or not that segment reflects the opinions of the fanbase as a whole... there's no empirical evidence one way or another.  Every poll that's been presented (either for or against the ending) represents such an absurdly small sample size that any attempts to glean conclusions from them is an exercise in foolishness.

all sample sizes are small usually numbering in the 10-100's
sometimes you get thousands

If there is a sample population contary to bsn, some one should post it. It would be interesting.

So far I have not seen such a sample

[Dubozz]

 Actually 2000 people is usually enough for a very large and accurate survey (even on nation scale). Not talking about tenth of thousands.

[Konfined]

David7204 wrote...

You know things are bad when morons resort to childishly stupid arguments such as declaring anyone that disagrees with them is a "troll."

Modifié par Konfined, 05 janvier 2013 - 03:14 .

[David7204]

That isn't anger.

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

Yes, things are bad when people become so fixated on a single, relevantly insignificant event and then blow the issue surrounding that event completely out of proportion. Did BioWare screw up? Most certainly. But was that mistake deserving of the backlash it's received? No.

[KevShep]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

 But was that mistake deserving of the backlash it's received? No.

Yes it was. Now, ME3 will be remembered now by future devs of how NOT to handle your fan base and damage control and not to take short cuts with the writing.

[FlamingBoy]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Yes, things are bad when people become so fixated on a single, relevantly insignificant event and then blow the issue surrounding that event completely out of proportion. Did BioWare screw up? Most certainly. But was that mistake deserving of the backlash it's received? No.

I never seen a backlash more deserving, it was a betrayal at the very core

[clennon8]

I'll stop complaining when ME3 is actually over and I've either been vindicated or lost all hope.

[3DandBeyond]

JamesFaith wrote...

This is two-side relation.

It shows many things not only about ME3, but also about people willing to scream almost year because of videogame.

I think what it should say is that prior to the ending of ME3, a lot of people did love these games and characters.  The ending caused many to really feel in some way like a scorned lover.  People also for the most part liked BW for creating ME and some really good characters and a continuing storyline.  It was a real breakout experience in gaming, warts and all.  I've played videogames for over 30 years and ME was the game I'd always wanted to play.  I love SF and watched games change from text only (where you head canon to visualize everything) to sprites and pixels to 3D graphics.  I always wanted to play a game that was that combination of a great story with a touch of romance, characters I could care about, some conflict (bigger than life foes), and imagination.  ME was that and ME3 ruined it for me at the end. 

I was having fun until I was told I had the choice of genocide, forcible genetic rape, or totalitarianism and forcing people to live with gigantic serial killers.  Add in that touch of suicide and I found the endings distinctly un-fun.  And the sad thing I learned is BW was completely serious about all of this and some people even believed the endings to be bittersweet or that death was artistic.  I've lived a lot and have yet to understand this last idea-so it's hard for me to understand that BW actually thought this was a good way to end what had been a fun game.  I still cannot wrap my head around people creating this and thinking that it all goes along with Liara's dad, Blasto, Mordin's sacrifice, Legion's, Virmire sacrifice, Conrad, and the idea of people coming together to determine their own future, again together.  I still want the fun to be returned.  I have no illusions as to what will be and don't even know if that kind of ability or some such motivation still exists, but it's so hard to see something rise so quickly and be destroyed so completely.

[3DandBeyond]

FlamingBoy wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Yes, things are bad when people become so fixated on a single, relevantly insignificant event and then blow the issue surrounding that event completely out of proportion. Did BioWare screw up? Most certainly. But was that mistake deserving of the backlash it's received? No.

I never seen a backlash more deserving, it was a betrayal at the very core

It was very deserving.  The list of things BW did and said, the hype they used and even what they've said or implied about fans is at the very least deserving of this backlash.  Not threats or thoughts of harm to people, but certainly no company should do business as usual when they created this situation and they need not have.   BW as yet has not fixed what they did wrong, nor have they as yet lived up to their promises.  Only in the video gaming industry would there be numerous fans that think this is ok or to be expected.

[JamesFaith]

KevShep wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

 But was that mistake deserving of the backlash it's received? No.

Yes it was. Now, ME3 will be remembered now by future devs of how NOT to handle your fan base and damage control and not to take short cuts with the writing.

I think Leanardo pointed on form of this backlash, which included death threats (I personally saw them here on BSN) and a lot of nasty insults.

Critique? OK, its part of every creative work. But what some people did here can't be apologised so easily. 

[KevShep]

JamesFaith wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

 But was that mistake deserving of the backlash it's received? No.

Yes it was. Now, ME3 will be remembered now by future devs of how NOT to handle your fan base and damage control and not to take short cuts with the writing.

I think Leanardo pointed on form of this backlash, which included death threats (I personally saw them here on BSN) and a lot of nasty insults.

Critique? OK, its part of every creative work. But what some people did here can't be apologised so easily. 

Death threats? No, that is not acceptable, your right about that.

[clennon8]

1. A thousand people voice a unified complaint.
2. One or two of them go too far and say something stupid, like a "death threat."
3. All one thousand people are painted as crazy people.

[crimzontearz]

Paulomedi wrote...

If it was in any other industry, they would be fired. But hey, they are dealing with a bunch of entlited whiners, right?

someone who works as a 3d artist at Atari pretty much said the same thing word by word

[dreamgazer]

Eh, people still complain about what The Phantom Menace did to the Star Wars universe, so the resilience of unhappy science-fiction fans doesn't really surprise me.

[3DandBeyond]

JamesFaith wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

 But was that mistake deserving of the backlash it's received? No.

Yes it was. Now, ME3 will be remembered now by future devs of how NOT to handle your fan base and damage control and not to take short cuts with the writing.

I think Leanardo pointed on form of this backlash, which included death threats (I personally saw them here on BSN) and a lot of nasty insults.

Critique? OK, its part of every creative work. But what some people did here can't be apologised so easily. 

But see the thing is BW should have handled those people and then should not cast us all (every fan) in the same light.  Even when people were begging them to come back and really discuss all of this, and wanted to have a real positive talk, they ignored that and tweeted some very nasty things about fans on twitter.  Or, they said things like they really loved it when fans fully explained what they didn't like, and that they listened to feedback, but they never actually showed that they did at all.  And when fans have explained repeatedly what they did not like and what is wrong with the endings, no one ever does care.  The EC is only proof that they were hemorrhaging money-it was intended to help slow the flow and not fix the game.

Consider that Mac Walters said in Feb, just prior to ME3's release that the galaxy would be a wasteland post-ME3.  Then at the end, we saw relays explode.  The codex said a ruptured relay would ruin any terrestrial world in a system.  The Arrival showed what an explosion would do.  In the Final Hours app, the writers had written the crucible would create a galactic dark ages.  We as fans knew that the events that happened after the relays exploded made no sense.  The galaxy was destroyed, what could come of the Normandy crash or anything else?  In game and outside of the game, the galaxy was said to have been destroyed.

This is what BW thinks of us.  When the EC was released, Walters and Hudson gave that interview with Jessica Merizan and they said they did not know why fans thought the galaxy was destroyed in the original endings, since they had never meant that to have happened.  They were doing what they have always done, pointing the finger at fans and saying that we just don't understand what is clearly what they wrote.  When they were working on the EC, they said the reason fans were upset was because it was the end of Shepard's story-again, it's the fans who have the problem.  Prior to the game's release, the devs (Gamble) said some fans would be angry at the end.  Recently, one of the devs said no one at BW ever thought people would be upset about the ending.  Ok, really?

All along BW has asserted that this is a fan problem and not their own problem.  We don't understand, we need explanation, closure, clarity.  Well what we've always needed was something truly rational and logical and we still need closure.

I can't and won't apologize for threats made by people who are not me.  I've made no threats, wished them no harm and yet, in their opinion we are all one big homogenous mass of "fans".