203 réponses à ce sujet

[Eterna]

ld1449 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

The same 20 or so people complaining over and over again is really troubling.

Oh wait, no it's not. Go outside.

I asked this to you once before so I'll ask again.

Its the same 20 people complaining over and over, and its the same 20 people defending it over and over.

What's your point?

That 20 people repeatedly complaining about something doesn't make the situation bad. 

[ld1449]

Eterna5 wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

The same 20 or so people complaining over and over again is really troubling.

Oh wait, no it's not. Go outside.

I asked this to you once before so I'll ask again.

Its the same 20 people complaining over and over, and its the same 20 people defending it over and over.

What's your point?

That 20 people repeatedly complaining about something doesn't make the situation bad. 

You're right. The failing DLC sales however do.

And since you're probably going to ask for a Citation Xbox Lives DLC lists Leviathan as barely beating Pinnacle S. and the ME2 appearance pack. Omega doesn't even beat that. (in fact DA2 DLC sales beat it. And we all know how DA2 DLC sales went by now.)

Modifié par ld1449, 05 janvier 2013 - 08:58 .

[Eckswhyzed]

ld1449 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

The same 20 or so people complaining over and over again is really troubling.

Oh wait, no it's not. Go outside.

I asked this to you once before so I'll ask again.

Its the same 20 people complaining over and over, and its the same 20 people defending it over and over.

What's your point?

That 20 people repeatedly complaining about something doesn't make the situation bad. 

You're right. The failing DLC sales however do.

And since you're probably going to ask for a Citation Xbox Lives DLC lists Leviathan as barely beating Pinnacle S. and the ME2 appearance pack. Omega doesn't even beat that. (in fact DA2 DLC sales beat it. And we all know how DA2 DLC sales went by now.)

Can I get a link to that? I'm genuinely curious.

[Bedavenerabilis]

Dubozz wrote...
Thank you my hanar friend! I've also found this. 

Yes i knew about this thread- this is what makes the reply as great as it is

[Priss Blackburne]

Not sure where he's getting it but if you go to xbox's website and browse by best sales for today I got the digital versions of Dragon age 1 & 2 and Mass effect 1,2 & 3 all beating the sales for the Omega download. I'm guessing it's not a good sign when sales of your games from years ago beat your current recently released DLC.

Modifié par Priss Blackburne, 05 janvier 2013 - 09:57 .

[Redbelle]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Heeeeey, what's wrong with being a minoritah?

Absolutely nothing. 

I just feel it's important to remind everyone of the FACT, that the people who don't like the ending is a very very very vocal minority. Again, there's nothing wrong with that.

Granted, the fanbase, or ppl who bought the game numebr in the 50k mark (if you believe the world wide N7 score of MP, give or take).

but even if it is a minority, the point they made was a very, very, very important one.

The writing quality took a nose dive.

Let's ignore the content of the ending and look at the flow of event's. Event's did not make sense and narrative's base themselves on the flow of continuity. What am I referring too?

Anderson getting to the beam first. Hackett knowing Shepard weas on the Citadel when he got a report saying no one did. Joker turning chicken. The mysterious case of the teleporting sqaudmates. etc etc.

These might have been minor issues in a game that did not rely on a narrative/cinematic approach, but in ME they became major issues because the story was woven into the gameplay.

That vocal proportion of the fanbase managed to get BW to fix the continuity errors and thus improve the problem of event's not feeding into future events.

Modifié par Redbelle, 05 janvier 2013 - 09:58 .

[Eterna]

ld1449 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

The same 20 or so people complaining over and over again is really troubling.

Oh wait, no it's not. Go outside.

I asked this to you once before so I'll ask again.

Its the same 20 people complaining over and over, and its the same 20 people defending it over and over.

What's your point?

That 20 people repeatedly complaining about something doesn't make the situation bad. 

You're right. The failing DLC sales however do.

And since you're probably going to ask for a Citation Xbox Lives DLC lists Leviathan as barely beating Pinnacle S. and the ME2 appearance pack. Omega doesn't even beat that. (in fact DA2 DLC sales beat it. And we all know how DA2 DLC sales went by now.)

ME3 has won numerous peoples choice awards. This contradicts what you've said. 

[Grubas]

Eterna5 wrote...

ME3 has won numerous peoples choice awards. This contradicts what you've said. 

It won as many disappointment of the year awards, whats your point?

According to bioware and the 4-5 proenders on this board polls are not representative. They werent in march, when countless buyers came here to vent about the game, why should they have any merit now?

Modifié par Grubas, 05 janvier 2013 - 10:16 .

[ld1449]

Eterna5 wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

The same 20 or so people complaining over and over again is really troubling.

Oh wait, no it's not. Go outside.

I asked this to you once before so I'll ask again.

Its the same 20 people complaining over and over, and its the same 20 people defending it over and over.

What's your point?

That 20 people repeatedly complaining about something doesn't make the situation bad. 

You're right. The failing DLC sales however do.

And since you're probably going to ask for a Citation Xbox Lives DLC lists Leviathan as barely beating Pinnacle S. and the ME2 appearance pack. Omega doesn't even beat that. (in fact DA2 DLC sales beat it. And we all know how DA2 DLC sales went by now.)

ME3 has won numerous peoples choice awards. This contradicts what you've said. 

Uhhhh No....



I've not bought a SINGLE piece of Dragon's Dogma DLC and I voted for it wherever it came up.

There are thousands of people, millions even that DON'T buy DLC, they'd rather wait for the Premium edition X months down the road that brings the whole package.

There are also many people that voted for ME3 after having just played it once or so.

Many people I know of only played once, moved on to the next game.

Why? Because they don't invest too much in their games. They play quickly, win and move on to the next.

Then there's the 53 percent or so of people that didn't beat ME3 at all yet. Or do you think they purchased DLC for a game they haven't even finished???

They may have also voted for it because they like what they've seen so far.

There are numerous reasons people would vote for it and the sales would be abyssmal

As the old saying goes 20% of your customer base gives 80% of the profit and that "dedicated" 20% is in shambles as far as I can tell.

Modifié par ld1449, 05 janvier 2013 - 10:29 .

[Indy_S]

The problem lies in narrative coherence. Narrative coherence is a quantifiable, objective thing and in Mass Effect 3 it is quite low. However, the importance of narrative coherence is subjective, it changes from person to person and story to story. Depending on it's importance to you, it affects how you view the game. A lot of people value the characters and emotions more and the game can pay off for them. This is how Mass Effect 3 can simultaneously be Game of the Year and the most atrocious attempt at storytelling of the year.

[Grubas]

Indy_S wrote...

The problem lies in narrative coherence. Narrative coherence is a quantifiable, objective thing and in Mass Effect 3 it is quite low. However, the importance of narrative coherence is subjective, it changes from person to person and story to story. Depending on it's importance to you, it affects how you view the game. A lot of people value the characters and emotions more and the game can pay off for them. This is how Mass Effect 3 can simultaneously be Game of the Year and the most atrocious attempt at storytelling of the year.

And then there are those customers that bought the game for the player advocacy and actuall gameplay content. Don't forget this group. 
"The player makes the story. Bioware only gives him the tools.." 

Modifié par Grubas, 05 janvier 2013 - 10:27 .

[ld1449]

Eckswhyzed wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

The same 20 or so people complaining over and over again is really troubling.

Oh wait, no it's not. Go outside.

I asked this to you once before so I'll ask again.

Its the same 20 people complaining over and over, and its the same 20 people defending it over and over.

What's your point?

That 20 people repeatedly complaining about something doesn't make the situation bad. 

You're right. The failing DLC sales however do.

And since you're probably going to ask for a Citation Xbox Lives DLC lists Leviathan as barely beating Pinnacle S. and the ME2 appearance pack. Omega doesn't even beat that. (in fact DA2 DLC sales beat it. And we all know how DA2 DLC sales went by now.)

Can I get a link to that? I'm genuinely curious.

A buddy of mine has the link, as soon as he sends it to me again I'll send it to you.

[Indy_S]

Grubas wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

The problem lies in narrative coherence. Narrative coherence is a quantifiable, objective thing and in Mass Effect 3 it is quite low. However, the importance of narrative coherence is subjective, it changes from person to person and story to story. Depending on it's importance to you, it affects how you view the game. A lot of people value the characters and emotions more and the game can pay off for them. This is how Mass Effect 3 can simultaneously be Game of the Year and the most atrocious attempt at storytelling of the year.

And then there are those customers that bought the game for the player advocacy and actual gameplay content. Don't forget this group. 
"The player makes the story. Bioware only gives him the tools.." 

Quite right. I'm sure there are other groups on either side of the issue. The point is more that people value things differently rather than naming different groups of appeased and disappointed players.

[Evo_9]

At this point i think the indoctrination theory thread will go on and its believers will continue to think an IT DLC is coming........even after ME4 is released.

Modifié par Evo_9, 05 janvier 2013 - 11:10 .

[TheProtheans]

Ah "entitled whiners" such a poor use of language.

"Look at them entitled whiners, they got what they were entitled to".

[Redbelle]

Eterna5 wrote...


ME3 has won numerous peoples choice awards. This contradicts what you've said. 

To understand this you have to look back to a TV series called Buffy the Vampire Slayer. It was good for three season's. Then in season 4 the story line and actor's and the whole inititive plot was not up to the standards of the previous 3 seaons. The consensus at the time was that the writing quality had tailored off. This occured around the same time as the spin off Angel was launched.

People however still watched it. The reason? Even sub standard Buffy was better than most of what was on TV back then.

The same is true of ME3. It's better than alot of games out there even though the narrative, fetch quest's and general limitiing of gameplay to run and gun and autodialogue made us sad to see such a great, final of trilogy, game title end on a whimper.

The issue is therefore, not that we didn't enjoy ME3. We did. Tchunka in particular tied off the genophage arc in a way that deserves a standing ovation! 

It's that sections of the quality of game content dipped instead of soared.

Modifié par Redbelle, 05 janvier 2013 - 01:27 .

[Seival]

liggy002 wrote...

It's been almost a year and people are STILL screaming about ME3's ending. It's not without good reason either. That just goes to show you how bad it really is....

And there are also a lot of people who liked the ending. We (pro-enders) are not screaming about this. Because unlike vocal minority, we are reasonable and constructive. And this is one of the reasons why BioWare listen to our concerns and suggestions about the game, and ignore vocal minority.

Modifié par Seival, 05 janvier 2013 - 01:40 .

[Indy_S]

Seival, by offering no criticism, you are not constructive. And the vocal 'minority argument' is unsupported. And has Bioware listened to your concerns so far? Do you mean the EC? That was as much the concern and suggestions of the anti-enders as well.

[Seival]

Indy_S wrote...

Seival, by offering no criticism, you are not constructive. And the vocal 'minority argument' is unsupported. And has Bioware listened to your concerns so far? Do you mean the EC? That was as much the concern and suggestions of the anti-enders as well.

Yes, I mean EC. And initially it wasn't concern of anti-enders, because it offered only explanations without any changes to the ending.

Anti-enders always demanded changes. But after EC large part of anti-enders just realized that all they needed were explanations. EC wasn't their achievement, but eventually it was what they actually needed.

EC was an achievement of BioWare and people, who stopped criticize and started to support BioWare and give constructive suggestions.

...Also I mean Leviathan DLC, which was also achievement of BioWare and its constructive supporters.

Modifié par Seival, 05 janvier 2013 - 02:00 .

[Fnork]

Seival wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

It's been almost a year and people are STILL screaming about ME3's ending. It's not without good reason either. That just goes to show you how bad it really is....

And there are also a lot of people who liked the ending. We (pro-enders) are not screaming about this. Because unlike vocal minority, we are reasonable and constructive. And this is one of the reasons why BioWare listen to our concerns and suggestions about the game, and ignore vocal minority.

Really ? I mean, really really ?

1) Claiming whichever side is the majority is completely unsupported. Neither side can make this claim. Maybe Bioware has data that points to some kind of conclusion but we don't even know that. And even if they, or we do find out it doesn't make one bit of difference. ME3 is done either way, one more DLC remaining.
2) Just as frequently you "pro enders" are just as unreasonable, trollish and unconstructive as the supposed "anti enders". In threads here and there you lot attack the person and not the argument. Here's some examples of stuff I've seen the oh so reasonable and constructive pro enders spout at anti enders:
"The catalyst makes perfect sense, you just don't like it"
"You just don't want to understand"
"You're just being stubborn"
"Why are you not over this?"
or ofcourse random ramblings or image macros about whining or whatever. And this goes both ways ofcourse, pro enders get called bioware apologists here and there too.
3) Bioware listens to your suggestions ? Are you that deluded ? Bioware listens to good suggestions, not just suggestions from one camp or the other. Case in point; the extended cut.

And sadly, by own criteria my post is just as unconstructive to the discussion at hand Saying pro enders are reasonable and constructive is completely idiotic. You're no better (or worse) than the supposed anti enders. Both sides have been constructive and reasonable as well as otherwise. If you can't see that you need to look past your own opinion.

[Fnork]

Seival wrote...
and its constructive supporters.

Yep, deluded.

[Indy_S]

First of all, the clarifications. Explanations are changes. Constructive suggestions are criticism. Anti-enders lobbied for the EC as much as the unsatisfied-enders did. Criticism and support are not mutually exclusive.

The impact the fans had on Leviathan seems minimal at best. The biggest change we gave it was pushing its release date back. Yay us.

You put reasonable in your first post, so I'm going to try an appeal to reason. We've all argued for the improvement of Mass Effect 3. The central complaint is that the end of the game and the trilogy falls apart from lack of narrative cohesion. There are gaps in the story that require the player to fill in, which is the job of the writers. My job as a player is to be entertained and learn. For myself and others, we were not entertained by the ending and what we learnt went against what we had learnt over the previous three games. The central complaint has not been acknowledged by Bioware and so it will be propagated until it is.

[Kesak12]

clennon8 wrote...

I'll stop complaining when ME3 is actually over and I've either been vindicated or lost all hope.