212 réponses à ce sujet

[Blind2Society]

R0binME wrote...

What makes me more frustrated is that geth hunters ignore when they are being staggered, they'll just keep firing.

Oh yes, THAT. Can't believe I forgot THAT in my above post.

Modifié par Blind2Society, 05 janvier 2013 - 04:12 .

[Bayonet Hipshot]

It's the same with sync-kills...Stupid game mechanic that takes away control from players...Taking control away from player is a bad thing...

[ThatGuyThatPlaysThisGame]

Stardusk wrote...

 or in other words, is being paralysed fun?

Considering people agree with BioWare then it is for them ... I guess 

[GallowsPole]

Getting knocked on my ass in video boxing, mma or martial arts games takes my control away. I can't do nothing until I get back up. In both cases I want to get back up and knock the crap out of what put me down.

I can make silly arguments. 

Modifié par GallowsPole, 05 janvier 2013 - 04:28 .

[Syber_Wolfe]

I've had Geth Hunters shoot at me while I had them frozen from Snap Freeze. Guess that's fun for the try-hards who think that N7 and challenge score mean something?

[hawgwild5757]

GallowsPole wrote...

Getting knocked on my ass in video boxing, mma or martial arts games takes my control away. I can't do nothing until I get back up. In both cases I want to get back up and knock the crap out of what put me down.

I can make silly arguments. 

I thought we'd all understood that fact by now, but thanks for pointing it out one more time for those who missed the previous several dozen.  

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

GallowsPole wrote...

Getting knocked on my ass in video boxing, mma or martial arts games takes my control away. I can't do nothing until I get back up. In both cases I want to get back up and knock the crap out of what put me down.

I can make silly arguments. 

Difference is that with stunlock, you're not getting knocked on your ass, you're just in a stun state taking direct hits to your HP, your opponent performing combo after combo on you while you cannot move/react/do anything. 

It's like the game says : 'Hey, I know that if you're not stunlocked you'd kick my ass, so Imma stunlock on your stunlock so you can stunlock while stunlocked.'

[L.ast L.ife]

I could have sworn "challenge" and "balance" were considered of the utmost importance to BSN.

...

This thread deeply confuses me at the moment.

Memmahkth wrote...

Is keeping yourself out of the situations where you are stunlocked challenging or skillful?

Being paralysed is not fun, however keeping yourself out of those situations and playing well could be considered fun.

...

Nevermind bro bro.  We're all good over here.

Modifié par L.ast L.ife, 05 janvier 2013 - 05:37 .

[Kama45]

N7Dropout1 wrote...

Universally, across all games, losing control of your character is seen as the opposite of fun. The biggest issue in general with console ME3 is poor control. You die because you can't change directions quickly while running. You die because the X button stuck you to a wall or cover when you didn't want to. You die because aim assist targeted a mook in the distance instead of the one closing in to kill you. You die because instead of rezzing a teammate, X button stuck you to a wall you didn't want to.

Adding stunlock is just another anti-gamer addition. Even brutal old-school games like Ninja Gaiden had a tiny fraction of invincibility after getting hit. If you go down and die in ME3, you pop a medigel like a good teammate and go through a vomit-inducing dance of stagger animation while getting up that eat into your short DR. This is typical in a gold game: You get killed, rez yourself or get rezzed, enemy hits you while getting up, you stagger and only take couple of steps before you get killed again.

Games are annoying enough on console with a control that isn't exactly optimal for FPS/TPS style games. To add in stunlock with diminishing returns(something seen in many other games where PVP exists) was just a bizarre inclusion.

That is one of the more insightful posts I have read on these forums.  Thank you.,

[Fortack]

Well, I always try to look at the bright side. Stunlocks give you the time to drink something, scratch an itch, beat on the table, curse the Geth by giving them the finger and so on.

[Scathen]

GallowsPole wrote...

Getting knocked on my ass in video boxing, mma or martial arts games takes my control away. I can't do nothing until I get back up. In both cases I want to get back up and knock the crap out of what put me down.

I can make silly arguments. 

Yup, that's a pretty silly argument, since in most fighting games your opponent isn't allowed to hit you while you're down or getting up.

[N7Kopper]

Scathen wrote...

Yup, that's a pretty silly argument, since in most fighting games your opponent isn't allowed to hit you while you're down or getting up.

In most fighting games based off of real sports, knocking your opponent down is the objective. You have no more reason to attack them when they're downed.

But take Tekken, and it's juggling mechanic. When you're being juggled, you're helpless. Utterly. There are no "break free" teching mechanics like in some beat-em-ups, no directional influence like Smash Bros., nothing. You eat those hits until your opponent messes up, their character literally cannot chain the combo any more, or you die. This mechanic is the unique draw for Tekken fans that make them play it, rather than, say, BlazBlue or Street Fighter.

One person made the argument that "taking control away from the player is bad"
...If I don't have control, how am I to be punished for my mistakes? If I always have control, then being killed will become invincibility time, where I constantly attack my foes in ghost form. Of course, this is appeal ad absurdium, but you see the point, surely? And similarly, taking control from the player's enemy is good game design? How? Just because this is a shooter, we shouldn't get status problems like any other RPG?

Being stunlocked is not fun. But if we are to remove stuns, we should remove all stuns. AKA: No more Falcon staggers for you, and if you give a Centurion the krogan backhand, he should just stand there, and shockstick you, rather than being sent flying.

There are also arguments that people who like stunlock because it actually punishes your mistakes - standing out of cover in a sight line, not dodge rolling at the right time, picking Shadow on a laggy host, are elitist. That gives those arguments credibility. You're saying the holders of those arguments are good at the game. If you don't like stunlock, that makes it annoying. I do not like stunlock. It does my freakin' head in. But I can, independant of irrational anger, realise a good game mechanic when I see it.

[Dunvi]

I'm starting to reach the point where I just missile a Prime the instant I see it, is that an answer?

AKA, no, stunlock is not fun.

[Dunvi]

N7Kopper wrote...

Scathen wrote...

Yup, that's a pretty silly argument, since in most fighting games your opponent isn't allowed to hit you while you're down or getting up.

In most fighting games based off of real sports, knocking your opponent down is the objective. You have no more reason to attack them when they're downed.

But take Tekken, and it's juggling mechanic. When you're being juggled, you're helpless. Utterly. There are no "break free" teching mechanics like in some beat-em-ups, no directional influence like Smash Bros., nothing. You eat those hits until your opponent messes up, their character literally cannot chain the combo any more, or you die. This mechanic is the unique draw for Tekken fans that make them play it, rather than, say, BlazBlue or Street Fighter.

One person made the argument that "taking control away from the player is bad"
...If I don't have control, how am I to be punished for my mistakes? If I always have control, then being killed will become invincibility time, where I constantly attack my foes in ghost form. Of course, this is appeal ad absurdium, but you see the point, surely? And similarly, taking control from the player's enemy is good game design? How? Just because this is a shooter, we shouldn't get status problems like any other RPG?

Being stunlocked is not fun. But if we are to remove stuns, we should remove all stuns. AKA: No more Falcon staggers for you, and if you give a Centurion the krogan backhand, he should just stand there, and shockstick you, rather than being sent flying.

There are also arguments that people who like stunlock because it actually punishes your mistakes - standing out of cover in a sight line, not dodge rolling at the right time, picking Shadow on a laggy host, are elitist. That gives those arguments credibility. You're saying the holders of those arguments are good at the game. If you don't like stunlock, that makes it annoying. I do not like stunlock. It does my freakin' head in. But I can, independant of irrational anger, realise a good game mechanic when I see it.

All of the factions have some stun mechanics, but the only one that gets people raging is geth. Why? Because of the amount. I agree, some amount of stun/stagger is a method of punishing you for effing up. However, the amount of stun in geth isn't punishment for effing up when you take into account the spawn system (I must be going crazy because I just got stunned by the prime I carefully killed from cover - oh, you just respawned right behind me. NM), and being stunned while rezzing is doubling up on an already doubled punishment - not only were you dead (which is punishment) but you spent a consumable (which is a punishment).

So I almost agree with you. It's not a bad game mechanic in and of itself. It is, however, badly applied.

[COLZ7R]

To me, no its not fun. To some in might be. So if we go down the normal bsn route. Being a above avarage player, who thinks its fine. Will think everyone MUST agree with them, if they dont, they are a noob and should l2p.
Geth are cheap as ****, they got buffed out the ying yang to stop fbwgg cause too many people were getting credits to fast(less profit from the rip of store) and the only acceptable way to play is run n gun

[robarcool]

Working as intended.

[xtorma]

It has been considered bad gaming mechanics for a long time, for a player to lose control of thier character for more than a second or two. How many pvp games have you played where the forums are freeking a cryfest over CC.

imagine if dragoons had stasis.

[dream3873]

Greyfrogx wrote...

Using 4 medgels to escape one marauder due to the elbow stun of doom.

Not fun.

Medgel should give 5 second stun/stagger immunity

Indeed!

[NewCliche21]

There are those in this thread who think stunlocks have no place in ME3.

Then there are people who are lying.

[E_rik]

Anyone who plays TF2 knows how annoying the Sandman is.

Its a commonly accept rule that loosing control of your character = no fun.

[Lars Honeytoast]

The thing about using colons and semicolons: it looks ridiculous and is very distracting; it's true!



Yes, I realize this post was entirely unhelpful, but seriously. That sentence is ridiculous.

[ilaardi]

I like me3 enemies. They got personality. Geth stuns paired with unhuman weapon accuracy fits in their nature. Now that being said I dont consider being stunned fun, just like I dont like being dead fun either, but its part of the game. 

[fayk_id]

but you also can stunlock enemies with certain kits, right? like, energy drain, sabotage, etc.

also, imagine a vanguard enemy flying in you face. or cerberus centurions (human soldiers, basically) with ops packs and gels. imagine banshee could apply dark channel for 30 seconds to you.

[mrs_anomaly]

 I don't mind stunlock as long as I have an opportunity to recover from it. The frustration from being stunlocked I think stems more from multiple stunlock vunerability with the Geth than any other faction. So- while all enemy factions have the ability to stunlock you- only the Geth will usually put you in triple jeopardy during that period. 

Everyone (usually) has actually encountered the situation where one player goes down due to stunlock, another tries to res, and then the res chain starts and then the whole party potentially dies. 

I have beaten Geth a bazillion times, and while I'm not anywhere as good on the PC as I am on the XBOX, I still get downed when I play with them. I usually play U/U/G or U/U/P. I don't care if we have to fight Geth but I guess I have a more relaxed attitude than a lot of players and I kind of just roll with the punches. 

However- I do think the stunlock needs to be addressed. So while posters above contend that this is a valid consequence for errors in play I think that it is in fact OP. The Geth Prime can set up his turret anywhere and is often flanking you, it's a very small target and I look for it first to kill it because it often kills the unwary on the team. Then there's the drone that can stun you while the Prime is also stunning you= instadeath. I see and hear all of the arguments re: l2p and go back to bronze but for anyone that really thinks this is the answer to the problem you are not contributing much to the discussion. 

The turret and drone respawn too quickly  IMO. Also the hunters will continue shooting you and staggering you no matter what you do practically. And I feel the geth bomber units should NOT be allowed to melee anything! 

You cannot always be behind full cover when doing an objective (any of them) or when trying to kite things throughout maps. Naturally smarter players will try to move cover to cover- but- alas- there are open spaces on all of the maps in between 

[Blind2Society]

mrs_anomaly wrote...

 I don't mind stunlock as long as I have an opportunity to recover from it. The frustration from being stunlocked I think stems more from multiple stunlock vunerability with the Geth than any other faction. So- while all enemy factions have the ability to stunlock you- only the Geth will usually put you in triple jeopardy during that period. 

Everyone (usually) has actually encountered the situation where one player goes down due to stunlock, another tries to res, and then the res chain starts and then the whole party potentially dies. 

I have beaten Geth a bazillion times, and while I'm not anywhere as good on the PC as I am on the XBOX, I still get downed when I play with them. I usually play U/U/G or U/U/P. I don't care if we have to fight Geth but I guess I have a more relaxed attitude than a lot of players and I kind of just roll with the punches. 

However- I do think the stunlock needs to be addressed. So while posters above contend that this is a valid consequence for errors in play I think that it is in fact OP. The Geth Prime can set up his turret anywhere and is often flanking you, it's a very small target and I look for it first to kill it because it often kills the unwary on the team. Then there's the drone that can stun you while the Prime is also stunning you= instadeath. I see and hear all of the arguments re: l2p and go back to bronze but for anyone that really thinks this is the answer to the problem you are not contributing much to the discussion. 

The turret and drone respawn too quickly  IMO. Also the hunters will continue shooting you and staggering you no matter what you do practically. And I feel the geth bomber units should NOT be allowed to melee anything! 

You cannot always be behind full cover when doing an objective (any of them) or when trying to kite things throughout maps. Naturally smarter players will try to move cover to cover- but- alas- there are open spaces on all of the maps in between 

Very well said, however, you forgot one very crucial element of Geth stunlock that simply needs to be removed from the game. Rocket troopers.