212 réponses à ce sujet

[MP-Ryan]

fayk_id wrote...

the easiest way to beat geth on gold is melee spec'ed batarian brawler

yet even with this kit, your heavy melee gets interrupted by stunlock

this is why i wouldn't farm gold with it alone or duo. there must be a team to get you out of those situations

Kroguard + Reegar is actually superior to the Brawler.  Don't get me wrong, I love the Brawler, but the kroguard cannot be stunned out of heavy melee.

[Silvair]

Also, correct me if i'm wrong, but speccing for high health and shields prevents stagger from Prime shots, yes? Because I could just stand there and take two full volleys of prime shots without being staggered with both top health and shields from Fitness, and Fortification on. Or maybe it was just due to fortification.

Either way, my point is there ARE ways around it. Destroyers shoulder cannon, high health and shields, (fortification, possibly), krogan charge. Dunno if the paladin's shield stops it or not.

If every character had a solution to every situation, there wouldn't be a point to having different characters.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

BioWare sometimes loses sight of the idea that games are supposed to be fun. That's why people play them. People don't play games to lose control of their character 50% of the time. There's a reason why games that have stun typically use it sparingly - having control taken from you as a player is annoying as hell. The Geth in their current state are absurd. Hardly anyone enjoys playing against them, yet BioWare seems to think they're perfectly fine as they are. I just don't get it.

[Rib0flavin]

MP-Ryan wrote...

fayk_id wrote...

the easiest way to beat geth on gold is melee spec'ed batarian brawler

yet even with this kit, your heavy melee gets interrupted by stunlock

this is why i wouldn't farm gold with it alone or duo. there must be a team to get you out of those situations

Kroguard + Reegar is actually superior to the Brawler.  Don't get me wrong, I love the Brawler, but the kroguard cannot be stunned out of heavy melee.

Yes the battlemaster can be stunned during his heavy melee. Those Combat drones have ruined my heavy melee quite a few times when I have done battlemaster vs gold geth.  He is highly resistant to stagger but still can be.

[heybigmoney]

Yep! It sure is!

[Quarian_Lover]

I don't like it either. Is so hard to get out from an sticky situation...

[Amusingthree93]

It is not fun. Period.

[greghorvath]

CitizenThom wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

CitizenThom wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

I know I am weird, but getting a taste of our own medicine is far from unjust. The player stuns and stunlocks almost everything in the game. Having to play differently against a faction is a boon and not a bane.

Not for more than half a second, and that half second can only happen once every three seconds with powers... or with a two second delay with regards to the Scorpion and at least a one second delay on a Falcon.

Let me put it this way: [1] How many times has player stagger helped finished a game? [2] How many times has enemy stagger stopped a player from finishing a game?

Think about it. If the answer to 1 does not make the answer 2 look like a ridiculously low number the player has made a wrong choice of difficulty.

Staggerlock hasn't ever been a tool for me as a player. I search unknown/unknown pug's, and while Scorpions and Falcons can get around Guardian shields, no armor piercing mod is a pain imo.

On the other hand, I have seen staggerlock (Hunter-Hunter-Hunter-Bomber-Bomber) packs take down an extraction zone on wave 11 or a hack objective. Obviously it's newer players that stay at the extraction zone all of wave 11, and who don't know that they can leave the hack objective and come back after leaving it... but the things is, Gold gets tougher when two players have been stunlock-killed and instastomped by a pyro in the hack zone or the extraction zone.

I do not understand your other question about stagger lock. If it doesn't make a difference, why do you bring it up?

You are the one saying stagger lock doesn't make a difference, and yet you don't want to see it on other factions, why?

Where exactly did I say it does not make a difference? I said I like the fact that I need to take different things into consideration when fighting different factions.

Do not be stupid and do not take me for one. Do you want seeker swarm like units or superlazors to be introduced into every faction? Stupid question is stupid.

[Badpanzer]

I have never found stun lock fun...in fact I think its a seriously bad idea.
There is no joy in being stunlocked to death you just stand there and die with no ability to do anything.....no its bad and bioware should feel bad for allowing it to exist.

[CitizenThom]

greghorvath wrote...

Do not be stupid and do not take me for one. Do you want seeker swarm like units or superlazors to be introduced into every faction? Stupid question is stupid.

You see, I think Seeker Swarms need less health, and that Praetorian lasers should be more predictable in what they penetrate and where they shoot from. Both need balancing on the Collectors. So it's obvious I don't want to see these things on other factions.

On the other hand, you don't think there is anything broken about the Geth stacking staggers indefinately. Which is a (stupid) point of view warranting a (stupid) question. See I can use the word stupid too, but using the word stupid doesn't make you smart.

[greghorvath]

CitizenThom wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

Do not be stupid and do not take me for one. Do you want seeker swarm like units or superlazors to be introduced into every faction? Stupid question is stupid.

You see, I think Seeker Swarms need less health, and that Praetorian lasers should be more predictable in what they penetrate and where they shoot from. Both need balancing on the Collectors. So it's obvious I don't want to see these things on other factions.

On the other hand, you don't think there is anything broken about the Geth stacking staggers indefinately. Which is a (stupid) point of view warranting a (stupid) question. See I can use the word stupid too, but using the word stupid doesn't make you smart.

Yes, I see you are advocating difficulty nerfs, which could be handled in a much easier way in game with a few clicks. Stunlock requires you to play differently than how you would play against reapers for example. Having to play differently against different factions is good. Introducing features that would make handling different factions (even  more) similar is not good as it would make having different factions pointless.

Very proficient usage of the word "stupid". Good job.

I'm sorry if I appear standoffish or something, but I have written these things down so many times already and I really can't see the point of doing it any more. I think I'm done.

Modifié par greghorvath, 08 janvier 2013 - 09:11 .

[Boog_89]

I don't mind been able to take no action while my character is been knocked backwards, its the awkward 1-2 second period after the stun that annoys me where you just stand still pressing shoot and nothing happens.


And then they stun you again.

[jack775544]

The stun that annoys me the most are those combat drones. They stagger you for ages and they can see through cloak across the map. Definantly preferred them when they did nothing.

[JAZZ_LEG3ND]

Stunlock is a poor attempt at designing challenge. Otherwise known as fake difficulty.
And it simply should exist at all, not in Mass Effect, not in anything.

[ValorOfArms777]

It's like playing a card game and you draw nothing but "crap" cept you in this game get a percentage of force that might blast you into stagger then any other hit on you MIGHT ALSO stagger you too, the problem aint the stagger is the fact you can be stagger a dozen times in a row you should only be staggerable every like 4 seconds just like a shield gate

though I find sync kills cheap in the fact they instant kill you....and notably soem cheap combination foes get them pretty easily notably on a lovely staggering faction mix on plat...sync kills arn't my qouta of pain cept from "Banshee's whom are pretty much the only unit that even SYNC kills me ever due to her version being pretty cheap comparison to the Atlas/Phantom/Brute/Scion the only other one almost as cheap as her is the Preatorians whom also are stagger lock kings melee stabing you to oblivion and then "SYncing you to death" but due to it's even "slower" kill it isnt as blatently annoying as a banshee's which notably seems to have many other synergistic powers to assist in the matter of being the most dealdy unit with a "sync kill" and the 2nd most annoying boss (primes being top cause they pre set you up for sync kills on plat or....super stagger lockdown)

Modifié par ValorOfArms777, 08 janvier 2013 - 12:18 .

[Elecbender]

Yes.

Anyone that thinks otherwise just doesn't know what "fun" is.

[ValorOfArms777]

Stagger me once "shame on me" stagger me 2-20 times more... "shame on you bioware"

this feels similar to Halo 4 in the fact onc eyou get hit in Halo 4 without a shield notably I experience this on SWAT when I pull a trigger and they fire.. and hit me it will cancle my shot out or my melee...thats pretty frustrating and (though much lesser extent) annoying. its pretty damn frustrating to due from "constant staggers..." cause it's again not the stagger itself.. but the fact you can be STAGGERD a bazzilion times over and over and a stagger itself lasts a second and half already...and leaving you open for another one AGAIN it needs to be set so it will not be able to restagger you in a row "over and OVER" like that but more like a cooldown like the shield gates to prevent over stagger

I don't mind soem realism like a stagger up, I don't.. but to be stun locked so bad it's just too much it's even worse than a sync kill due to the frustration of "feeling" of pure utter inconcieably stupid doom that jsut laughe din yoru face cause a game mechanic of not a sync kill but a litteral simple stun made you liek trip 5 time sover and over and now you anr't jsut flamked but now so surroudned you can't roll away pull out a missile..oh look you get up with a gel BOOM restaggerd AGAIn as soon as you get up and you are doomed...

between "magnetic" banshee hands of anti life , and the stun lock lock down ...those are the only thigns that annoy me atm 

and the fact that bombers/Preatorians/Geth Primes/dragoons are the kings of locking you, and banshee's jsut anny me frequently due to their unrelenting speed and super pressure makign them cheap combo on plat with various units like bombers/primes and preatorians ntoably

Modifié par ValorOfArms777, 08 janvier 2013 - 12:30 .

[GallowsPole]

Call me crazy, but here's my take. This is a co-op game. Being locked by multiple stuns is actually YOU being caught in crossfire. Yeah yeah, we know the Geth are ridiculous with it and needs tweaking, but really, you only get locked in cross fire. This is failed tactics and failed co-op play. No different than if you were playing CoD and dying in a hail of bullets. To say its a fake difficulty is just wrong. How it is abused by the Geth is wrong, but not the actual mechanic. Platinum is what Id call a 'fake' difficulty.

If you got on the mic and called out where the Primes and Scions are, group them to avoid crossfire, then no problems. Instead, people whine and moan on BSN about it. For the most part, the peeps that b*tch about it, are those that solo (which shouldnt even be part of a co-op game and wish BW would actually remove this ability), or those that insist on getting their games done faster instead of using actual team play.

Again, I agree that the stun lock units need tweaking, but not removed entirely. Try using team work for a change. Thats why we got the ability to use mics. Why we can coordinate a well synergized team BEFORE going into battle. But nooooooo, we need to change the whole friggin game for peeps that dont even want to play the game the way it technically should be played.

[ValorOfArms777]

GallowsPole wrote...

Call me crazy, but here's my take. This is a co-op game. Being locked by multiple stuns is actually YOU being caught in crossfire. Yeah yeah, we know the Geth are ridiculous with it and needs tweaking, but really, you only get locked in cross fire. This is failed tactics and failed co-op play. No different than if you were playing CoD and dying in a hail of bullets. To say its a fake difficulty is just wrong. How it is abused by the Geth is wrong, but not the actual mechanic. Platinum is what Id call a 'fake' difficulty.

If you got on the mic and called out where the Primes and Scions are, group them to avoid crossfire, then no problems. Instead, people whine and moan on BSN about it. For the most part, the peeps that b*tch about it, are those that solo (which shouldnt even be part of a co-op game and wish BW would actually remove this ability), or those that insist on getting their games done faster instead of using actual team play.

Again, I agree that the stun lock units need tweaking, but not removed entirely. Try using team work for a change. Thats why we got the ability to use mics. Why we can coordinate a well synergized team BEFORE going into battle. But nooooooo, we need to change the whole friggin game for peeps that dont even want to play the game the way it technically should be played.

It's still somewhat "cheap" vs fun ....difficulty of faulse unlike soemthign like the "Hazard Maps" which offer a true "difficulty" and thinking this mechanic force is somewhat unpredictable and "forced" it's like again drawign cruddy cards ian card game deck which means whats the "fun" if you can't have a "chance?"  the soemtiems giv eyou no chance cause after awhile soem of those stunlocking thigns can "STOMP" you *Cough Dragoons* or cause sync kill issues that just are unfair momments provided througha cheap momments you had no "ability" to avoid

while notably again I never said remove it "add a timer before you can be staggerd again" like how our shield gate works to prevent stagger locking down of any faction,

[Blitzkrieg_33]

I may hate stunlock, but it is the only thing making the geth somewhat difficult, so I'm fine with it.

[Someone With Mass]

They really should add some kind of stun resistance so the characters I'm using that can't dodge won't be stunned to death with no way of retaliating.

Some people might say: "Uh, well you should be more aware of your surroundings, or you'll suck."

I'm sorry, but do you have a 360 degree field of fully awareness? Because I sure as hell don't.

[GallowsPole]

Someone With Mass wrote...

They really should add some kind of stun resistance so the characters I'm using that can't dodge won't be stunned to death with no way of retaliating.

Some people might say: "Uh, well you should be more aware of your surroundings, or you'll suck."

I'm sorry, but do you have a 360 degree field of fully awareness? Because I sure as hell don't.

Ummm.....if you dont know where the unit is that is attempting to stun lock you is, how will dodge help again?

[Someone With Mass]

GallowsPole wrote...

Ummm.....if you dont know where the unit is that is attempting to stun lock you is, how will dodge help again?

Because dodging after the first shot might prevent it from happening over and over again?

[hostaman]

inversevideo wrote...

Even better, die, someone rezzes you, stun lock by what killed you the first time, someone then rezzes you, stun locked and killed, someone rezzes you, stun locked and killed, finally allowed to bleed out. Good times.

I never understood why BW didn't dial in a 5 second invincibility when this happens.  Similar to driving games where your car is basically a ghost for a few seconds when you rejoin to avoid smacking another car.