98 réponses à ce sujet

[Ziegrif]

I sense a giant ****** tornado coming forth from this thread.

Personally.

They are pretty much the most efficent way to kill something if you know how to complement them with appropriate tech and biotic abilities.
Alone they're not gonna kill much but in conjunction with BEs and tech explosions they're extremely powerful.

[Hellsteeth30]

I get him.

You can get through bronze with colourful language and an umbrella yet it gives you grenades by the bucketload. On gold where grenades are highly useful you get barely any.

You have finite TC packs. Not a viable alternative.

[Liefglinde]

Hey, hey guys, READ THE OP BEFORE POSTING.

I agree with the reasoning behind this. I don't understand why you get 4 grenades on Bronze, where grenades might as well be missiles, but 0.5 - 1 on Gold/Platinum, where a single grenade won't really be killing anything.

[Nitrocuban]

Grenade Gear is a broken way to work around that broken resupply mechanism.

[Computron2000]

Deerber wrote...
What? Whenever I get glacier with a grenade-heavy character I know I'm gonna reach 200k if I'm with not-too-uber-but-still-very-good players. Sure, there are few grenades around, but that is counteracted by the fact that the enemy is so close together that each grenade is basically going to hit all the enemies at once.

It might not be as good as Goddess, but there are way worse grenade maps around. Condor... 

My experience is that in Glacier, if i'm the only guy its still ok. Not great but ok. Once anyone else (or for laughs, 3 other grenadiers/stims) is a stims/grenadier then it becomes a mad rush. Ever have a pugger see you start moving to an ammo box and they run ahead of you just to suck up the grenade? I get that quite a bit, worse are the speed boosted fellows. Getting killstreaks yes, glacier is very good but most pug grenadiers tend to throw them badly.

Condor is so large that though its a slower game, i can always run around to 2 boxes that no one has touched yet (mostly the one under the hill and the L ship pipe box) in a pug.

[HolyAvenger]

I preferred it when the game didn't have grenade capacity gear.

[Nitrocuban]

Even it is not totally part of the topic:
5(gear)*5(Thermal Clip consumable) additional grenades for 11 rounds isn't that much at all.

[LemurFromTheId]

Deerber wrote...

Aedolon wrote...

Frankly I think grenade capacity gear is a little OP. Most grenade users can have 4 grenades by default, with gear you can have 9, more than double (and with Thermal Clip Packs, which most peopla have plenty of, you can fill those five times per match). Compare that to weapon amp gear which gives you a measly +15% base damage bonus.

Grenade Capacity should give 3 grenades at V, but I guess people would complain there would be no difference between every rank.

You! Stop saying BS! 

Grenade Capacity is absolutely not overpowered! :innocent:

It's about time you stop stealing my kills with you damn cluster nades! Besides, you shouldn't disagree with me in public or I might accidentally release a certain screenshot proving to everyone that you're just a leecher...

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Air Quotes wrote...

Grenades are fine.

No, they are not..Grenades should do ton of damage & bypass shield gate & health gate. On the other hand, they need to take time to blow off, just like enemy grenades. 

Also we should be able to throw enemy grenades away from us... 

[Deerber]

Aedolon wrote...

Deerber wrote...

Aedolon wrote...

Frankly I think grenade capacity gear is a little OP. Most grenade users can have 4 grenades by default, with gear you can have 9, more than double (and with Thermal Clip Packs, which most peopla have plenty of, you can fill those five times per match). Compare that to weapon amp gear which gives you a measly +15% base damage bonus.

Grenade Capacity should give 3 grenades at V, but I guess people would complain there would be no difference between every rank.

You! Stop saying BS! 

Grenade Capacity is absolutely not overpowered! :innocent:

It's about time you stop stealing my kills with you damn cluster nades! Besides, you shouldn't disagree with me in public or I might accidentally release a certain screenshot proving to everyone that you're just a leecher...

Ouch! Now, that's a blackmail!  But... How can I steal your kills if I'm a leecher? :innocent:

Liefglinde wrote...

I don't understand why you get 4 grenades on Bronze, where grenades might as well be missiles, but 0.5 - 1 on Gold/Platinum, where a single grenade won't really be killing anything.

... Because Gold/Platinum is meant to be harder than Bronze? 

Computron2000 wrote...

Deerber wrote...
What? Whenever I get glacier with a grenade-heavy character I know I'm gonna reach 200k if I'm with not-too-uber-but-still-very-good players. Sure, there are few grenades around, but that is counteracted by the fact that the enemy is so close together that each grenade is basically going to hit all the enemies at once.

It might not be as good as Goddess, but there are way worse grenade maps around. Condor... [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/unsure.png[/smilie]

My experience is that in Glacier, if i'm the only guy its still ok. Not great but ok. Once anyone else (or for laughs, 3 other grenadiers/stims) is a stims/grenadier then it becomes a mad rush. Ever have a pugger see you start moving to an ammo box and they run ahead of you just to suck up the grenade? I get that quite a bit, worse are the speed boosted fellows. Getting killstreaks yes, glacier is very good but most pug grenadiers tend to throw them badly.

Condor is so large that though its a slower game, i can always run around to 2 boxes that no one has touched yet (mostly the one under the hill and the L ship pipe box) in a pug.

If you've got 4 grenade classes in a game it's gonna be bad in pretty much every map but Jade/Goddess.

But anyway, I might have a different view on the matter because most of the time I use grenades is when I'm using a Drell, so... Now that I think of it, I might be the guy always beating you to the ammo box, haha! 

[Bleachrude]

I actually disagree with the idea of 4 grenade users being tough...In fact, it should be EASIER tto keep supplied with 4 grenadiers than 1 grenade user on a map.

The problem is there's absolutely no coordination between the people....If there's a drell adept and you see him reave a spawn point, why is it that EVERYONE needs to toss in their own grenade?

The adept can easily clear that spawn by himself using just 1 grenade. but no...everyone wants to throw a grenade...

THIS is why there's a lack of grenades....

[Nitrocuban]

Deerber wrote...
... Because Gold/Platinum is meant to be harder than Bronze?

Like I said in the OP: difficulty is defined by more and tougher enemies that hit harder and so on. Powers and weapons are not additionally penalised. Only Grenades are by limited restocking.
The question is: why are grenades penalised twice while other powers aren't?

[LemurFromTheId]

If I were in charge of things, this is what I'd do:

• Grenade Capacity V only gives 3 grenades
• All ammo boxes would be personal, you couldn't take other player's ammo, you would only see your own ammo in your own game
• Difficulty level would not affect ammo boxes (difficulty is already addressed by other means like enemy health)
• Finally I would adjust the ammo respawn times so the whole thing would be balanced again

[Invader Nemesis]

Nitrocuban wrote...

Grenades are grossly OP on bronze not only because they deal great amounts of damage to multiple targets but also for the high respawn rate of 4 per ammo box.
On the other hand grenades are close impossible to restock on Gold and Platinum cause ammo boxes give 1 if you are lucky while at the same time being less effective due to tougher enemies.

Higher difficulties are meant to be harder, that's why enemies hit harder and can take more, but why are grenades the only power in the game penalised twice?
(Even with Grenade Gear and Thermal clip Packs grenades are orders of magnitude less effective than other powers on higher difficulties. Full specced for Grenade count, forced to use nothing but Greande Gear and burning all 5 Themal Clip consumables it's only  4 additional grenades per round)

It is really beyond me, shouldn't it be the other way round: getting more grenades from ammo boxes on higher difficulties?

Everything is grossly OP on bronze. I never have trouble getting grenades on gold and platinum unless its Condor and/or I'm playing with another grenade character.

Grenades are fine the way they are.

[Deerber]

Nitrocuban wrote...

Deerber wrote...
... Because Gold/Platinum is meant to be harder than Bronze?

Like I said in the OP: difficulty is defined by more and tougher enemies that hit harder and so on. Powers and weapons are not additionally penalised. Only Grenades are by limited restocking.
The question is: why are grenades penalised twice while other powers aren't?

The ammo you get varies on difficulty as well. At least, it does so between gold and platinum. For sure, the ammo you get at the end of a wave is difficulty-dependent.

The main mean of damage of powers are explosions, and the damage of explosions depends on difficulty.

Even if it wasn't like this, and grenades were actually the only thing affected twice, I wouldn't see a problem with it.

[LemurFromTheId]

Bleachrude wrote...

I actually disagree with the idea of 4 grenade users being tough...In fact, it should be EASIER tto keep supplied with 4 grenadiers than 1 grenade user on a map.

The problem is there's absolutely no coordination between the people....If there's a drell adept and you see him reave a spawn point, why is it that EVERYONE needs to toss in their own grenade?

The adept can easily clear that spawn by himself using just 1 grenade. but no...everyone wants to throw a grenade...

THIS is why there's a lack of grenades....

No. Every level can replenish grenades at a specific rate which does not depend on the amount of grenade users. On the other hand, grenades are an essential part of how grenade user deal damage to the enemy, so the need for grenades does depend on the amount of grenade users. It's simple matter of supply and demand. Supply is constant, demand is not.

[LemurFromTheId]

Deerber wrote...

Nitrocuban wrote...

Deerber wrote...
... Because Gold/Platinum is meant to be harder than Bronze?

Like I said in the OP: difficulty is defined by more and tougher enemies that hit harder and so on. Powers and weapons are not additionally penalised. Only Grenades are by limited restocking.
The question is: why are grenades penalised twice while other powers aren't?

The ammo you get varies on difficulty as well. At least, it does so between gold and platinum. For sure, the ammo you get at the end of a wave is difficulty-dependent.

The main mean of damage of powers are explosions, and the damage of explosions depends on difficulty.

Even if it wasn't like this, and grenades were actually the only thing affected twice, I wouldn't see a problem with it.

Yeah, biotic and tech explosions are more powerful on harder difficulties, whereas grenades are essentially less powerful because you have fewer of them.

[Deerber]

Aedolon wrote...

Deerber wrote...

Nitrocuban wrote...

Deerber wrote...
... Because Gold/Platinum is meant to be harder than Bronze?

Like I said in the OP: difficulty is defined by more and tougher enemies that hit harder and so on. Powers and weapons are not additionally penalised. Only Grenades are by limited restocking.
The question is: why are grenades penalised twice while other powers aren't?

The ammo you get varies on difficulty as well. At least, it does so between gold and platinum. For sure, the ammo you get at the end of a wave is difficulty-dependent.

The main mean of damage of powers are explosions, and the damage of explosions depends on difficulty.

Even if it wasn't like this, and grenades were actually the only thing affected twice, I wouldn't see a problem with it.

Yeah, biotic and tech explosions are more powerful on harder difficulties, whereas grenades are essentially less powerful because you have fewer of them.

Good point, d'oh. I should go to sleep.

So it's just powers that work the opposite, cause ammo work as grenades do. Well, I should go to sleep.

[Blind2Society]

Nitrocuban wrote...

Grenades are grossly OP on bronze

Stopped there. Who cares if things are OP on bronze?

[robarcool]

Liefglinde wrote...

Hey, hey guys, READ THE OP BEFORE POSTING.

I agree with the reasoning behind this. I don't understand why you get 4 grenades on Bronze, where grenades might as well be missiles, but 0.5 - 1 on Gold/Platinum, where a single grenade won't really be killing anything.

That is because the game is made harder by increasing enemy health and DPS while giving us less ammo and grenades. It is the most basic (if not most intelligent) way of making games difficult.

[ParatrooperSean]

megawug wrote...

Solution: Stop playing bronze, and let the new players enjoy the game.

/Thead

[LemurFromTheId]

Blind2Society wrote...

Nitrocuban wrote...

Grenades are grossly OP on bronze

Stopped there. Who cares if things are OP on bronze?

I think most Bronze players would like even that difficulty to be balanced...

[Blind2Society]

Aedolon wrote...

I think most Bronze players would like even that difficulty to be balanced...

If you think you're gear is OP on bronze maybe it's time to switch to silver?