202 réponses à ce sujet

[Selene Moonsong]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Have you been in the millitary?
I hope that's not a too personal question...


I was wondering, because I thought it would be interesting to hear the point of view of a woman who has served in the armed forces.

Yes, I was in the U.S. Navy for more years than I care to remember.

[Navasha]

I am gonna go with NO. Rogues and even warriors wouldn't look like 21st century athletes who have literally been training non-stop since a child with a particular goal and skillset in mind using 21st century technology and training techniques.

Most of your "medieval" setting characters wouldn't even have access to the level of nutrition required to achieve that level of results, much less the equipment and time.

[deuce985]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Actually, I dislike all insinuations of what a woman's, or even a man's, physique should look like.

Anyone who has spent time in the military knows that the largest number of men and women aren't ripped and muscular like someone who spends most of their time in the gym body building: they pretty much look like every day people. It is actually very few who actually look like the suggested images.

Men and women today in the military also didn't share the same physical activities from the past. Our world continues to move away from the human body needing strenuous physical ability. We have machines that do most of our work now. Then, people were picking swords/shields up and fighting hand-to-hand. How much does that happen today in our modern military? Isn't it realistic to think that they had more athletic builds then in their military? Especially when some children were trained as soldiers at birth...

Heck, they've even designed backpacks now where a machine takes the weight off the human body. The point is, military today demands less athletic builds because it's not as high in demand as it was in the past. We're sitting behind computers now dropping bombs. In those days, thousands of soldiers were grinding it out in hand-to-hand combat. It takes a lot more to swing a sword constantly than being an armchair warrior...

Alternatively, I doubt anyone in those days had the knowledge of the human body like we do now. So even athletic builds wouldn't come close to what we see today. So I guess I can kinda agree with what you said.

Modifié par deuce985, 05 janvier 2013 - 10:48 .

[Sylvanpyxie]

who would you like to add to it? I'm happy to take suggestions.

My suggestion would be, as politely worded as possible, if you're going to attempt to pin a physique on the Rogue class you should look more closely at the Fencers and Archers.

While I can't speak overly for Fencers (I've only witnessed never experienced), I can say with certainty that the physique of your average archer these days ranges from lanky to lean to average to bulked to obese.

While the average Archer in less modern times would be forced to inevitably re-position themselves during the course of a battle, they are far less inclined to develop the kind of muscular build or definition that you've displayed in your original post. They simply do not use their muscles in the same capacity as a modern athlete.

Also:

Which Dragon Age protagonist was "in the military", "with military training"?

Warrior or Rogue Hawke are both members of the military, or at the very least signed up for it, and fought in the Battle of Ostagar.

It's also implied that a Warrior in the Human Noble Origin Story has received some form of military training. A Warrior in the Dwarven Noble Origin Story has also likely received military training, it's heavily implied at least.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 05 janvier 2013 - 11:04 .

[MichaelStuart]

As long as they don't look skinny, I will be content.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Which Dragon Age protagonist was "in the military", "with military training"?

Warrior/Rogue Hawke, along with Carver, were in the military. They served in the army at Ostagar. They would have had at least some military training.

Edit: And while PC Cousland and Aeducan were not soldiers per se, as nobles who would one day be expected to lead warriors they would have had some formal military training too.

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 05 janvier 2013 - 11:08 .

[Ninja Stan]

Howard Schatz's book "Athlete" has a visual comparison of the many different sizes and shapes of different athletes, depending on their specialization or event. One might infer from this that female soldiers or warriors might exhibit similar differences depending on their role in combat and fighting style, perhaps even their choice of preferred weapon. A warrior specializing in a zweihander is not going to have the same training and physical development as a crossbowman, and they will likely have a different build than, say, an assassin.

And while debating the appearance of real-world warriors and realistic physical development, a game may not reflect these differences, instead minimizing the scope of the game by having only one or two visually distinct body types.

[Dutchess]

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

who would you like to add to it? I'm happy to take suggestions.

My suggestion would be, as politely worded as possible, if you're going to attempt to pin a physique on the Rogue class you should look more closely at the Fencers and Archers.

While I can't speak overly for Fencers (I've only witnessed never experienced), I can say with certainty that the physique of your average archer these days ranges from lanky to lean to average to bulked to obese.

While the average Archer in less modern times would be forced to inevitably re-position themselves during the course of a battle, they are far less inclined to develop the kind of muscular build or definition that you've displayed in your original post. They simply do not use their muscles in the same capacity as a modern athlete.

Wouldn't (floor) gymnasts be something to look at for rogues? I mean with all the salto's in DA2...:happy: 

Modifié par renjility, 05 janvier 2013 - 11:16 .

[Sylvanpyxie]

Wouldn't (floor) gymnasts be something to look at for rogues?

I'm very glad you decided to edit that. My mother was a vaulting gymnast and she was not what you would call a graceful rogue.

In seriousness though, if we're looking at the acrobatic side of Rogues that was recently introduced in Dragon Age 2, then we shouldn't limit ourselves to the specialized sports gymnastics.

Acrobats are used in a various number of ways, sports acrobatics, dance and general entertainment to name just a few. Each acrobat specializes in a different field and each field produces a different physique.

I'm not a fantasy Rogue derived entirely from fiction, so I don't really have the slightest clue - I just like to point out that there are a lot of variables to consider, not least of which are the specialized training and diets of modern athletes that you would be unlikely to see in Thedas.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 05 janvier 2013 - 11:42 .

[TMZuk]

Well, they shouldn't look like supermodels.

But in my opinion Bioware hasn't done bad in that regard. The exception was ME2. That was bad, because both genders used the same set of animations, which made Femshep look pretty horrible. No matter what the level of training is, men and women moves differently. There are some differences in the angles of wrists, elbows, hips and knees that will always be present.

I think something like this would be appropiate:




Great movie too!

Modifié par TMZuk, 05 janvier 2013 - 11:49 .

[CARL_DF90]

Well, strength and beauty all rolled into one? Count me in!

[Uccio]

bleetman wrote...

Filament wrote...

Modern military gear often weighs more than a typical suit of platemail, from what I understand.

Fair enough.

I used full combat gear combined with full packbag in army (finnish army) and compared that to the medieval gear I´ve put on, I personally think old armor beats new gear in weight. They are close but still new is less IMO. Not to forget that in the old days people were supposed to have a physical fight wearing that armor and wielding a weapon for hours after their march to the killing fields. 

Modifié par Ukki, 05 janvier 2013 - 11:57 .

[The_11thDoctor]

How can the OP be so sadly of base... I'd never play a bioware game again if they used those terrible examples!

[addiction21]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Actually, I dislike all insinuations of what a woman's, or even a man's, physique should look like.

Anyone who has spent time in the military knows that the largest number of men and women aren't ripped and muscular like someone who spends most of their time in the gym body building: they pretty much look like every day people. It is actually very few who actually look like the suggested images.

Precisely. Fighting men and women do not go thru some appearance check to make sure they look like the idealized athlete. The OPs selection of swimmers, track and field and tennis player does not accurately represent athletes as a whole.

Selene Moonsong wrote...


Yes, I was in the U.S. Navy for more years than I care to remember.

Ah yes, the glorified taxi service for the real soldiers

[Paul Sedgmore]

In my opinion it would depend on the occupation of the PC for either gender as warriors need a lot of physical strength and so would have a lot of muscle but wouldn't necessarily toned muscle to do what they need to do, where as a rogue would need to be fast and dexterous leading to a smaller build. However being in a world very much grounded in European medieval surroundings I very much doubt that any of the characters would have access to the required food or time to achieve the build of a modern athlete.

[Vilegrim]

ShadowDragoonFTW wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Also, for those of you who complain about the uniformity/monotony of the OP, who would you like to add to it? I'm happy to take suggestions.

Find me some pictures of people who regularly run around all day in 50-pound armor swinging about a sword and shield. 

so Western Martial Artists then (also called European Martial arts) .  Or just combat wrestlers that type of build.

simfamSP wrote...

Filament wrote...

So nice of you to prescribe for us your vision of the proper female form.

I
wouldn't go as far as that. All the OP is suggesting is how a trained
female athlete/warrior should look like. An obese man or woman isn't
going to go far in heavy armour. Hell, not even an average man or woman
is going to go far.

Look at the surviving suits of armour, the guys who had them made wheren't bodybuilder or athlete big, they where soldier build (which makes sense, a modern soldier carries the same or more weight than a knight did, you would expect similar physiques.)   Knight would be better up close and nasty ofc, but the difference in physical size doesn't appear that great.

Modifié par Vilegrim, 06 janvier 2013 - 12:17 .

[Solas]

Actually I think having it be customizable would be the best approach, I realize there's probably issues with implementing this though.

[Paul Sedgmore]

Ukki wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Filament wrote...

Modern military gear often weighs more than a typical suit of platemail, from what I understand.

Fair enough.

I used full combat gear combined with full packbag in army (finnish army) and compared that to the medieval gear I´ve put on, I personally think old armor beats new gear in weight. They are close but still new is less IMO. Not to forget that in the old days people were supposed to have a physical fight wearing that armor and wielding a weapon for hours after their march to the killing fields. 

Plus unless I'm very much mistaken the medieval gear you have warn would have been made with modern techniques and materials (we are able to make steel that provides the same protection a lot thiner now then back in the 11th century) than a genuine medieval set of platemail. 

I think that people vastly underestimate how much a suit of platemail really weighs

[DreGregoire]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Anyone who has spent time in the military knows that the largest number of men and women aren't ripped and muscular like someone who spends most of their time in the gym body building: they pretty much look like every day people. It is actually very few who actually look like the suggested images.

Military may, in street clothes, look like ordinary every day people and they may not all have bulging muscles, however, their muscles are generally more defined and more obvious in certain areas than an average every day person. Granted these muscles are generally more obvious while actually doing the activities that made them what they are, but to say a militarially trained person's body is like an ordinary every day persons body is, IMO, not accurate.

To the thread,
I think the whole problem is that there is only one body type for females and it (the body) generally looks like it couldn't swing an axe to cut it's own firewood, let alone a two handed sword or axe. It would be nice not to have to look like a singular body type.

[Jonata]

Can't help but think that Natalie Coughlin looks more like a male elf than a human woman in that first picture every time I see it.

[Paul Sedgmore]

DreGregoire wrote...

To the thread,
I think the whole problem is that there is only one body type for females and it (the body) generally looks like it couldn't swing an axe to cut it's own firewood, let alone a two handed sword or axe. It would be nice not to have to look like a singular body type.

To be honest this is a problem for both genders to some extent. For example I would prefer a male warrior to have a larger body mass than the Dragon Age games have provided so far. Saying that though it is a lot more pronounced with the female character model

[Maria Caliban]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Which Dragon Age protagonist was "in the military", "with military training"?

Rogue and warrior Hawke.

[addiction21]

Maria Caliban wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Which Dragon Age protagonist was "in the military", "with military training"?

Rogue and warrior Hawke.

And the human noble, dwarf noble, and Dalish elf origins one could make cases for.

Then again it depends on what someones definition of "in the military", "with military training" is.

Modifié par addiction21, 06 janvier 2013 - 02:44 .