202 réponses à ce sujet

[Giant ambush beetle]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Actually, I dislike all insinuations of what a woman's, or even a man's, physique should look like.

Anyone who has spent time in the military knows that the largest number of men and women aren't ripped and muscular like someone who spends most of their time in the gym body building: they pretty much look like every day people. It is actually very few who actually look like the suggested images.

I agree. PLUS muscular female protagonist turn me off, enough to make me quit the game halfway.  

I too agree with what SM said, however, this has absolutely nothing to do with the actual topic. How anyone can compare a modern day soldier with medieval soldier is beyond me, its like comparing apples to.... concrete blocks.
During the last 500 years physical demands for the professional soldier have changed dramatically, and so has combat.
A soldier nowadays has to carry about 120 lbs of gear on his back and engages his enemies with a weapon that weighs 8 lbs and kills with trigger pulls.
This clearly requires a high amount of physical endurance.

Now the medieval soldier had to carry much less than 150lbs of gear (soldier, not mounted knights in full plate) but had to fight armored combatants. The only way to engage and kill said enemies was with a weapon that cut through clothing, armor flesh and bone, often involving physically very demanding grappling, hand to hand and wrestling techniques.
Battles could last for hours so a high physical endurance was definitely required, though to effectively wield weapons like a warhammer or a two handed blade on the battlefield, weapons with mass that could penetrate and damage metal armor, also required a high amount of upper body strength, even more so if the soldier engaged enemies in plate mail.
And lets not forget archers, longbows with pull weights in excess of 150 up to 220 lbs.

Two different eras, very different warfare, different physical demands.

And I think its kind of sad that most people would rather have a highly noncredible female warrior for the simple reason that they are uncomfortable with the idea of having a physically strong looking woman in the party.

[The Hierophant]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

*rolls eyes at people complaining about "fantasy" armor not covering enough* you all do realize that there were entire armies back in the day who went into battle almost completely naked right?

Like DA did they stand in place with their enemies, trade dozens of attacks, and tank each hit in return until one of them croaks?

Modifié par The Hierophant, 07 janvier 2013 - 01:43 .

[xsdob]

Blue Gloves wrote...

Selene Moonsong wrote...

xsdob wrote...

I facepalm at you sir. I facepalm at you and your fail post.

If that was suppose to be sarcastic or humorous, you failed to convey that.

If it was serious, than you sir are an ass.

Relax, It was not serious on his part. All branches of the service crack jokes at each other. Male of female, if you put a Soldier, Marine, Airman, and Sailor in the same table in a bar, you wil hear some pretty crude-sounding comments of a similar nature directed at each other, but it's usually all in fun.

While we all may not serve in the same branch of service but we all share the same camaraderie as service men and women and is not something that is obvious to those outside of that group of individuals.  

Please note that addiction21 did put the smiley after his comment which is the same as , meaning a toungue-in-cheek comment, and no offense was taken by me. Come to think of it, I owe him one back when I think of one. Besides, have you ever seen the lovely shade of greem Army turns when we weigh anchor?

 

Edit: Fixed quote format.

Seconded, my best friend's a jar head, and I'm pretty sure we haven't had even one conversation in the last six years in which I haven't mentioned that he cries every night into his pillow about his lack of a decent academy, awful haircut and any common sense, as well as a lot of other explcit and awful things that the BSN would probably not appreciate.  He, of course, is convinced that female soldiers say "Hua!" in bed and only became soldiers because they were scared to go into combat w/out the marines clearing the way first.  And you should hear the things we shout at one of our Air Force buddies when we're drunk.

It's a military thing.  It doesn't mean we don't love each other.

Sorry. My bad.

[Wulfram]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

*rolls eyes at people complaining about "fantasy" armor not covering enough* you all do realize that there were entire armies back in the day who went into battle almost completely naked right?

Not wearing armour is fine.  Wearing stupid armour is stupid.

[Shadow Fox]

The Hierophant wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

*rolls eyes at people complaining about "fantasy" armor not covering enough* you all do realize that there were entire armies back in the day who went into battle almost completely naked right?

Like DA did they stand in place with their enemies, trade dozens of attacks, and tank each hit in return until one of them croaks?

If they had to yes  but they wouldn't if they had a decent commander because only a complete idoit would do that in a real war because putting yourself in emcumburing armor like heavy plate and fighting an entire army on foot with just three people for backup would be suicide oh and that's not even getting into firebreathing giant lizards,mutant monsers with poisoned blood and people you can throw the elements around like rocks I'm fairly sure "realistic armor" as we define it wouldn't help much.

[Shadow Fox]

Wulfram wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

*rolls eyes at people complaining about "fantasy" armor not covering enough* you all do realize that there were entire armies back in the day who went into battle almost completely naked right?

Not wearing armour is fine.  Wearing stupid armour is stupid.

Some protecion would be better than none I'd suppose.

[The Hierophant]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

*rolls eyes at people complaining about "fantasy" armor not covering enough* you all do realize that there were entire armies back in the day who went into battle almost completely naked right?

Like DA did they stand in place with their enemies, trade dozens of attacks, and tank each hit in return until one of them croaks?

If they had to yes  but they wouldn't if they had a decent commander because only a complete idoit would do that in a real war because putting yourself in emcumburing armor like heavy plate and fighting an entire army on foot with just three people for backup would be suicide oh and that's not even getting into firebreathing giant lizards,mutant monsers with poisoned blood and people you can throw the elements around like rocks I'm fairly sure "realistic armor" as we define it wouldn't help much.

i just noticed your reply, but I was mostly joking about how silly it would be for a nude fighter to engage in direct combat a la DA style.

Plus how come every time when someone tries to discredit the usefulness of armor in combat they use the stereotypical portrayal of a full suited platemail wearing knight, while ignoring that there's hardened leathers, lamellar, segmentata, gambeson, chainmail that are lighter, but offer more manueverability while still retaining  level of protection that could protect the wearer from cuts or stabs to the vitals.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 07 janvier 2013 - 02:43 .

[Shadow Fox]

The Hierophant wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

*rolls eyes at people complaining about "fantasy" armor not covering enough* you all do realize that there were entire armies back in the day who went into battle almost completely naked right?

Like DA did they stand in place with their enemies, trade dozens of attacks, and tank each hit in return until one of them croaks?

If they had to yes  but they wouldn't if they had a decent commander because only a complete idoit would do that in a real war because putting yourself in emcumburing armor like heavy plate and fighting an entire army on foot with just three people for backup would be suicide oh and that's not even getting into firebreathing giant lizards,mutant monsers with poisoned blood and people you can throw the elements around like rocks I'm fairly sure "realistic armor" as we define it wouldn't help much.

i just noticed your reply, but I was mostly joking about how silly it would be for a nude fighter to engage in direct combat a la DA style.

Plus how come every time when someone tries to discredit the usefulness of armor in combat they use the stereotypical portrayal of a full suited platemail wearing knight, while ignoring that there's hardened leathers, lamellar, segmentata, gambeson, chainmail that are lighter, but offer more manueverability while still retaining  level of protection that could protect the wearer from cuts or stabs to the vitals.

Oh sorry and I was mostly  refering to the folks who where insulting the Hilde pic*the redhead cartoon girl wearing metal and leather on the previous page* they seemed to be implying unless you're wrapped in 2-3 layers of metal you aren't "practical" 

[Sacred_Fantasy]

The Woldan wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Actually, I dislike all insinuations of what a woman's, or even a man's, physique should look like.

Anyone who has spent time in the military knows that the largest number of men and women aren't ripped and muscular like someone who spends most of their time in the gym body building: they pretty much look like every day people. It is actually very few who actually look like the suggested images.

I agree. PLUS muscular female protagonist turn me off, enough to make me quit the game halfway.  

I too agree with what SM said, however, this has absolutely nothing to do with the actual topic. How anyone can compare a modern day soldier with medieval soldier is beyond me, its like comparing apples to.... concrete blocks.
During the last 500 years physical demands for the professional soldier have changed dramatically, and so has combat.
A soldier nowadays has to carry about 120 lbs of gear on his back and engages his enemies with a weapon that weighs 8 lbs and kills with trigger pulls.
This clearly requires a high amount of physical endurance.

Now the medieval soldier had to carry much less than 150lbs of gear (soldier, not mounted knights in full plate) but had to fight armored combatants. The only way to engage and kill said enemies was with a weapon that cut through clothing, armor flesh and bone, often involving physically very demanding grappling, hand to hand and wrestling techniques.
Battles could last for hours so a high physical endurance was definitely required, though to effectively wield weapons like a warhammer or a two handed blade on the battlefield, weapons with mass that could penetrate and damage metal armor, also required a high amount of upper body strength, even more so if the soldier engaged enemies in plate mail.
And lets not forget archers, longbows with pull weights in excess of 150 up to 220 lbs.

Two different eras, very different warfare, different physical demands.

Yes, Which is why you don't often see legions of thousands women warriors marching over long distant carrying heavy gears to battlefield throughout the history. They occupied a number of different social roles but medieval soldier is not one of them, unless you of course, you presume all medieval age women are Spartan's women. Even so, I haven't come across any historical reference of Spartan women actively involved in Military. /shrug



 

[The Hierophant]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Oh sorry and I was mostly  refering to the folks who where insulting the Hilde pic*the redhead cartoon girl wearing metal and leather on the previous page* they seemed to be implying unless you're wrapped in 2-3 layers of metal you aren't "practical" 

Oh my fault then, despite her breast shaped chestplate at least she's covered up unlike Ivy who i can't resist to pick sometimes during the character select.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 07 janvier 2013 - 03:43 .

[SweQue]

I'm not a pervert or anything, but please don't make women realistic in-game.
Im all for feminism, I think everyone who has sisters are, but in games women should look good.

Modifié par SweQue, 07 janvier 2013 - 04:04 .

[The Hierophant]

*edit*

Modifié par The Hierophant, 07 janvier 2013 - 04:30 .

[Dubozz]

I'll better go with models and Xena.

[haroldhardluck]

One body armor is about 16 pounds. One helmet is about 3 pounds. 10 magazines is about 10-15 pounds depending on caliber and mag size. So a modern soldier goes into battle with about 34 pounds in just combat gear. Water is as necessary as ammo especially in the desert. So add in another 5 pounds minimum of water. Plate armor is about 40-60 pounds.

However a modern soldier may also carry an extra belt of MG ammo, some grenades, a LAW or two, etc. So the weight carried by a modern soldier and a medieval soldier into battle are within each other's range..

Anyone who has backpacked knows that 40-60 pound is also the typical weight for a backpacking trip of 3-5 days. You do not have to be a tip top shape athlete to carry that much weight for such a trip. I certainly was not in my youth.

So a warrior or rogue does not need to be in super shape to do their job. Endurance counts for more than strength as the weight of armor and weapons is not that great. The athletes shown in the OP are all short haul athletes. The physique of someone who runs the 500m race is quite different from a marathon runner. The 500m race lasts minutes. The marathon lasts hours. Battles can last hours. Infiltrating a guarded castle is a matter of stealth not speed so the rogue could be climbing and hiding for hours. So for a rogue or warrior, snap is more important than bulk as body builders would say.

Harold

[Shazzie]

SweQue wrote...

I'm not a pervert or anything, but please don't make women realistic in-game.
Im all for feminism, I think everyone who has sisters are, but in games women should look good.

SweQue, I caught your post before you edited it, and while I won't drag it all through the flames since you WERE polite enough to edit, I'll admit that your pre-edit enraged me, and I have to say something. I'll keep it short and simple, since you DID edit it out:

I'm female. My gender is not here to 'look good' for your pleasure, whether in real life or in game.

Modifié par Shazzie, 07 janvier 2013 - 04:10 .

[SweQue]

Shazzie wrote...

SweQue wrote...

I'm not a pervert or anything, but please don't make women realistic in-game.
Im all for feminism, I think everyone who has sisters are, but in games women should look good.

SweQue, I caught your post before you edited it, and while I won't drag it all through the flames since you WERE polite enough to edit, I'll admit that your pre-edit enraged me, and I have to say something. I'll keep it short and simple, since you DID edit it out:

I'm female. My gender is not here to 'look good' for your pleasure, whether in real life or in game.

I just think that maybe 90% of us men like the barbie look / thin good looking blondes.
Im not saying all though, maybe a few doesnt.

[Icesong]

Body types, another thing they can take from TOR.

[Matchy Pointy]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

You're serious, aren't you.

You're comparing an athlete, who devotes all of their energy to a single field, to someone in the military? With military training?

I beg to differ.

Which Dragon Age protagonist was "in the military", "with military training"?

One could argue for warrior/rogue Hawke (fought at Ostagar), human noble have combat training, dwarven noble sure have it.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Nah. Not enough curves.

[AlexanderCousland]

Useless thread. arguing the semantics over how the female or male body types should be presented is like beating a dead horse. This thread also blatantly ignores that both genders have expectations of what a both sexes should look like in video games/popular media.

[haroldhardluck]

FreshIstay wrote...
Useless thread. arguing the semantics over how the female or male body types should be presented is like beating a dead horse. This thread also blatantly ignores that both genders have expectations of what a both sexes should look like in video games/popular media.

The body type will be whatever Bioware decides to buy as models. I doubt if Bioware has the budget to build custom bodies from scratch.

However this thread is as relevant as any other. We are not the decision makers at Bioware but they do monitor the threads. So this discussion could influence what they look for in character models.

Harold

[AlexanderCousland]

haroldhardluck wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...
Useless thread. arguing the semantics over how the female or male body types should be presented is like beating a dead horse. This thread also blatantly ignores that both genders have expectations of what a both sexes should look like in video games/popular media.

The body type will be whatever Bioware decides to buy as models. I doubt if Bioware has the budget to build custom bodies from scratch.

However this thread is as relevant as any other. We are not the decision makers at Bioware but they do monitor the threads. So this discussion could influence what they look for in character models.

Harold

Thanks for stating the obvious. 

I should point out to you, however, Your first two sentences render your last paragraph irrelevant.

[DragonAgeLegend]

Xilizhra wrote...

Weren't the women of Sparta all homemakers?

No way.  The Helots (Slaves) did all the house work as well as taking care of the kids. The only thing Spartan women and Athenian women had in common was that they could'nt vote. The Spartan women had only one thing they had to do and that was to give birth to strong, healthy children. They trained in athletics and sports such as bibasis and had to keep fit and healthy as they had nothing else to do. 

I studied Spartan life for a semester so I know what I'm talking about. Haha. :)

[DragonAgeLegend]

This thread is pointless btw and I imagine it getting locked soon. Although, there hasn't been any recent presence of mods in this forum as far as I can see.