454 réponses à ce sujet

[CNevarezN]

Anduin The Grey wrote...

CNevarezN wrote...

Hah... I've seen these arguments before. If I had a nickel... o.O

And you'll see them again until Bioware stop updating the multiplayer.

And I'll keep using the "If I had a nickel" quote, slugger.

[FromTheAlps]

Let people play the way they want, nobody cares if you like it. If you don't like Rio farming, set your search function to a specific enemy/map or host your own games. If you cannot host yourself, you should have no problems building up a friendslist wich is filled with people who dispise Rio-farming as much as you do. If you don't care enough do do one of these things, you should also stop complaining.

[darkpassenger2342]

Ultner wrote...

Let people play the way they want, nobody cares if you like it..

this is a bit ironic, considering the thread is 23 pages.
people care.
obviously.

its not uncommon for people to view things differently than you.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 08 janvier 2013 - 06:57 .

[Arctican]

Ultner wrote...

Let people play the way they want, nobody cares if you like it. If you don't like Rio farming, set your search function to a specific enemy/map or host your own games. If you cannot host yourself, you should have no problems building up a friendslist wich is filled with people who dispise Rio-farming as much as you do. If you don't care enough do do one of these things, you should also stop complaining.

Even searching for specific enemy/map, you can sometimes magically end up in Rio Reapers. For some, they cannot host or they take a long time to have people fill up their lobby. And not everyone has friends that are ready to go for platinum games at their beck and call. 

If what you advise can work, then I'm sure this thread would not have last this long.

[FromTheAlps]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

Ultner wrote...

Let people play the way they want, nobody cares if you like it..

this is a bit ironic, considering the thread is 23 pages.
people care.
obviously.

its not uncommon for people to view things differently than you.

Still i don't understand why some people would rather impose changes of the gameplay to the whole community, than to do one of the things i mentioned.

[78stonewobble]

Ultner wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

Ultner wrote...

Let people play the way they want, nobody cares if you like it..

this is a bit ironic, considering the thread is 23 pages.
people care.
obviously.

its not uncommon for people to view things differently than you.

Still i don't understand why some people would rather impose changes of the gameplay to the whole community, than to do one of the things i mentioned.

This last thing.

"You have ended in a game you don't want to":
Step 1: Leave.
Step 2: Search for a new game.

If same thing happens again:
Step 3: Make new game.


It's not THAT complicated and I infinitely prefer that to the mental and gaming equivalent of:
"Oh that guy over there in his own backyard is barbequing WRONG and he shouldn't be allowed to."
 


That said IMHO the Rio box sounds more exploitive of game faults than FBWGG ever was. In comparison (and maybe in general) FBWGG was just "clever use of game mechanics".

EDIT and PS: Regarding run and gun versus camping.

Neither is more exploitive or "clever use of game mechanics" than the other in regards to using/misusing foreknowledge and limited ai/maps to funnel enemies or forcing/using spawns.

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 08 janvier 2013 - 08:38 .

[darkpassenger2342]

btw i confused my comment with another thread, its 15 pages, not 23.
and in response to the poster who quoted me:
this thread may continue forever, because both sides have fair points.

people dont want others to benefit from exploits/easy buttons, ( the box being an exploit seems to be a matter of opinion)

and thats understandable, meanwhile others dont want them to change anything because they think people will just migrate elsewhere, also understandable

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 08 janvier 2013 - 08:42 .

[JewelsWinnfield]

Yes. I actually wasted 30 minutes of my life making this video, but it shows exactly what it looks like if I try to find a Platinum lobby. I looked for every map and every enemy faction, but all I got was two Rio lobbys and one ongoing Rio match. After that (not shown in the video) I opened up my own lobby and it "only" took ten minutes until three people who clearly have no clue about Platinum joined.


Recommended background music:

[Occurus]

Hendrix137 wrote...

Yes. I actually wasted 30 minutes of my life making this video, but it shows exactly what it looks like if I try to find a Platinum lobby. I looked for every map and every enemy faction, but all I got was two Rio lobbys and one ongoing Rio match. After that (not shown in the video) I opened up my own lobby and it "only" took ten minutes until three people who clearly have no clue about Platinum joined.


Recommended background music:

A very good example to show that farmers have nothing to do with inability to find a good random game. You search Platium and end up with either farmers or bad players because there aren't that many good players out there, not because inadequate players are filling platium games. If game changes force them out of platium, you will only end up with a painfully long waiting time instead of quality games. Farmers are out there and you don't want to play with them whether they are in platium farming or not. It's not fun to farm but really it's not their fault you can't find a decent game. Maybe a map exclusion option in game searching can help ease the pain. A "joining unstarted games only" option will also help.

[Heldarion]

Istari Ipuosta wrote...

Hendrix137 wrote...

Yes. I actually wasted 30 minutes of my life making this video, but it shows exactly what it looks like if I try to find a Platinum lobby. I looked for every map and every enemy faction, but all I got was two Rio lobbys and one ongoing Rio match. After that (not shown in the video) I opened up my own lobby and it "only" took ten minutes until three people who clearly have no clue about Platinum joined.


Recommended background music:

A very good example to show that farmers have nothing to do with inability to find a good random game. You search Platium and end up with either farmers or bad players because there aren't that many good players out there, not because inadequate players are filling platium games. If game changes force them out of platium, you will only end up with a painfully long waiting time instead of quality games. Farmers are out there and you don't want to play with them whether they are in platium farming or not. It's not fun to farm but really it's not their fault you can't find a decent game. Maybe a map exclusion option in game searching can help ease the pain. A "joining unstarted games only" option will also help.

Agreed. Besides, what will fixing Rio do? Farmers that can't play a real Platinum match will just move to the next easiest map.

To nobody and everybody: stop beating this horse, it's dead.

[ArcaptSSX]

Istari Ipuosta wrote...
A very good example to show that farmers have nothing to do with inability to find a good random game. You search Platium and end up with either farmers or bad players because there aren't that many good players out there, not because inadequate players are filling platium games. If game changes force them out of platium, you will only end up with a painfully long waiting time instead of quality games. Farmers are out there and you don't want to play with them whether they are in platium farming or not. It's not fun to farm but really it's not their fault you can't find a decent game. Maybe a map exclusion option in game searching can help ease the pain. A "joining unstarted games only" option will also help.

This kind of reasoning assumes that people are robots: it doesn't take discouragement into account at all. When you can't find a plat game after some time you fall back to gold or some other occupation. Does that mean that you aren't a ME3 plat player anymore?

It's also a sort of trampling a minority. Between those who say that plat is boring (= it shouldn't be played) and those who estimate that since the farmers outnumber the true plat players the latter shouldn't exist, it's a little shocking. If one said you don't have the right to play a particular weapon or character because it's boring and there are so few people who use it anyway, does that make it legit?

Modifié par JohnBobbyTheThird, 08 janvier 2013 - 11:14 .

[Arctican]

Heldarion wrote...

Istari Ipuosta wrote...

Hendrix137 wrote...

Yes. I actually wasted 30 minutes of my life making this video, but it shows exactly what it looks like if I try to find a Platinum lobby. I looked for every map and every enemy faction, but all I got was two Rio lobbys and one ongoing Rio match. After that (not shown in the video) I opened up my own lobby and it "only" took ten minutes until three people who clearly have no clue about Platinum joined.


Recommended background music:

A very good example to show that farmers have nothing to do with inability to find a good random game. You search Platium and end up with either farmers or bad players because there aren't that many good players out there, not because inadequate players are filling platium games. If game changes force them out of platium, you will only end up with a painfully long waiting time instead of quality games. Farmers are out there and you don't want to play with them whether they are in platium farming or not. It's not fun to farm but really it's not their fault you can't find a decent game. Maybe a map exclusion option in game searching can help ease the pain. A "joining unstarted games only" option will also help.

Agreed. Besides, what will fixing Rio do? Farmers that can't play a real Platinum match will just move to the next easiest map.

To nobody and everybody: stop beating this horse, it's dead.

If that logic was applied, we'd still have the old FBWGG, which frankly, I'm glad it's no longer in 9 out of 10 games that I search for. Just because a problem is hard to fix doesn;t mean we shouldn't try to solve it.

And I'm not saying farming is bad, just that if all the platinum games were nothing but Rio Reapers, the game is going to get stale quicker than it supposed to get.

[nicethugbert]

JohnBobbyTheThird wrote...

Istari Ipuosta wrote...
A very good example to show that farmers have nothing to do with inability to find a good random game. You search Platium and end up with either farmers or bad players because there aren't that many good players out there, not because inadequate players are filling platium games. If game changes force them out of platium, you will only end up with a painfully long waiting time instead of quality games. Farmers are out there and you don't want to play with them whether they are in platium farming or not. It's not fun to farm but really it's not their fault you can't find a decent game. Maybe a map exclusion option in game searching can help ease the pain. A "joining unstarted games only" option will also help.

This kind of reasoning assumes that people are robots: it doesn't take discouragement into account at all. When you can't find a plat game after some time you fall back to gold or some other occupation. Does that mean that you aren't a ME3 plat player anymore?

It's also a sort of trampling a minority. Between those who say that plat is boring (= it shouldn't be played) and those who estimate that since the farmers outnumber the true plat players the latter shouldn't exist, it's a little shocking. If one said you don't have the right to play a particular weapon or character because it's boring and there are so few people who use it anyway, does that make it legit?

Yes, and you are right to hate yourself for not being a legit platinum player.  Dude, get a life.  It's just a game.  It means nothing.  You get no status from it.

[78stonewobble]

To be honest the only problem with FBWGG was the people complaining about it.

People I assume were too stupid and/or lazy to find new games and/or make their own ones.

And too immature and/or selfcentered to realise that fun is subjective.

I don't like the colour orange. Which means I don't wear it or colour my walls orange. That doesn't mean that other people shouldn't be allowed to enjoy that colour.

My nephew displayed that behaviour at age 4 ... He outgrew it.

Note: I play mostly U/U/S. It's none of my business how other people have fun / enjoy the game neither should the fact that I enjoy silver mean that platinum should have never happened.

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 08 janvier 2013 - 02:00 .

[IIFlash]

DullahansXMark wrote...

IIFlash wrote...

I find it hard to believe you enjoy it too unless your practically braindead, I think completing a difficulty which is obviously too hard for you (based on how it's completed) , gives you a false sense of accomplishment which in turn makes you believe you are enjoying yourself.

I'm not saying that all players are like that (I'll never understand the mindset of those who just do farming setups indefinitely), but some like to use an easy setup to acclimate to a higher difficulty. To get a feel for the enemies, that sort of thing. Preparing for that day they can step out into the real world and play the game like a man.

We can't all just wing it on the spot.

A lot of what I said is based on experience from the FBWGG days, but hiding in the Rio box you are playing even less than you were hiding behind a desk, at least you had a decent vantage point to shoot from, the box there is none.

Judging by some of the other posters comment you'd have to assume they are doing indefinately, and even if they're not, they do it long enough that when they lose said setup they refuse to lower the difficulty. This is what happened after Bioware redesigned White, there was an influx of players in Gold who were in no way, shape or form capable of playing at that difficulty. Yes there will always be some exceptions.

Also easy setups is picking specific map/enemy with specific characters/loadouts/equipment and actually trying to play the game, whether you start off bad and fail is irrelevant you will learn and adapt eventually as you gain confidance on said difficulty. Not sitting in a distant corner of the map in a spot that many consider and very well could be considered an exploit.

Modifié par IIFlash, 08 janvier 2013 - 01:37 .

[.458]

BW will probably change Rio, but OP is a bit arrogant to claim this is a "fix", or to claim farming is wrong. If this is not the map OP wants, then pick another map. If random hits this too often, then petition for a map picking filter that allows something like "random other than a certain map". BW drives away players every time they please someone by pissing off many others.

[Arctican]

78stonewobble wrote...

To be honest the only problem with FBWGG was the people complaining about it.

People I assume were too stupid and/or lazy to find new games and/or make their own ones.

And too immature and/or selfcentered to realise that fun is subjective.

I don't like the colour orange. Which means I don't wear it or colour my walls orange. That doesn't mean that other people shouldn't be allowed to enjoy that colour.

My nephew displayed that behaviour at age 4 ... He outgrew it.

Note: I play mostly U/U/S. It's none of my business how other people have fun / enjoy the game neither should the fact that I enjoy silver mean that platinum should have never happened.

If you played mostly UUS back in the days of the old FBWGG, then you probably have little idea how frustrating it was to find just a different game other than FBWGG. We did try to find new games, and we did try to make our own ones, but we couldn't find new games, and I know some of us can't host or they'll have to wait a long time to find a game. And not all of us have friends constantly ready to play a private game that was not FBWGG.

I did enjoy my share of FBWGG in the beginning, but that grew stale so quickly because that was the only game you could find the majority of time. On the worst days, there was nothing but FBWGG. I don't mind if other people enjoy it. But it was making Mass Effect MP quite one-dimensional when there was so much more to enjoy out of MP. It was the variety of maps, characters, and different challenges each enemies post on those different maps and to characters that kept me coming back. It's not that I don't like the color orange. Far from it. I want to like not only orange, but also red, green, blue (oh wait, maybe not, jk), purple, yellow, etc. 

Modifié par Arctican, 08 janvier 2013 - 05:53 .

[Mindlog]

Put a switch on the outside that opens the crate, but automatically shuts it after 10 seconds.

Modifié par Mindlog, 08 janvier 2013 - 05:54 .

[Faulcun]

What really pisses me off is the fact that there are people here who think its ok to change a product that somebody paid for just because they dont like the way they play the game. If I were to say to somebody that I dont like the way they drive to work, and close down a whole road and force them to take a 30 min detour, the first words out of all of their mouths would be... "thats f'd up". Who the hell is anybody to say how somebody else should play a game. There are THOUSANDS of people who play this game. Not all of them are hardcore gamers who only strive to be as good as Jay or RedJohn. Most people are casual gamers, and intend to stay that way. If you dont like the way somebody else is playing the game, then Alt+F4 is your best friend. Gtfo and start your own server and play how you want there. Nobody is forcing you to farm, therefore nobody should be forced to stop farming, or using a particular weapon, or a kit in a certain way, or using ammo with other powers, etc etc. I know people on the forums are from all over the world, but did anybody know that in the united states, more people participated and voted in american idol than in the election for their own president? Think about what that implies. I'm reminded of that every time I see some of the ridiculous crap that gets posted up sometimes. It makes me ashamed to be associated with BSN sometimes. I just noticed the other day that a whole forum was shut down on here because people couldnt figure out how to get along with each other on the internet. All these people who think they are "fixing" things by imposing all the changes on casual players are actually the ones who end up killing the game for good. Look at FF XI. The game died before it was even released by putting xp caps on time so people wouldnt grind and farm to max out characters in a few days. When the game stops being fun for the casual players, it dies. Remember that when you log on one day and cant get people to join your room or find a room to join.

TL;DR- I made the wall on purpose. I dont need you to tell me you are too lazy to move your eyeballs from left to right. I know literacy is a tough concept these days, but im sorry your uber monitor doesnt have pop-up book capabilities. If you dont care, dont read it.

[nicethugbert]

Arctican wrote...
And not all of us have friends constantly ready to play a private game that was not FBWGG.

I have a huge and 24/7/365 active friends list.  My friends list always has people on who play platinum U/U/P.  I found them both in game and on these forums.  I've posted threads seeking people to play platinum with.  It's not hard.

Yet, I hardly ever see people do the same and never saw anyone asking for U/U/P no Rio camping.

[GordianKnot42]

Two cents, though I'm sure it's been said in the 15 pages of thread...
- personally don't see anything wrong with farming in the context of a frustrating store system, but don't really do it myself anymore (just because it's not fun - don't play Platinum at all)
- BUT, I acknowledge that if every U/U/P Quick Search brings up Rio farming, I can see that as being rather unfair to players better than me who enjoy U/U/P
- the danger: when BW was asked to "fix" FBWGG farming, their first attempted fix was to make the Geth into stun-lock city, before then fixing the Pyro grabs and adding buggy Bombers with MORE stun-lock capability before FINALLY fixing the design of the map. The cure may be worse than the disease.

[JewelsWinnfield]

Istari Ipuosta wrote...

Hendrix137 wrote...

Yes. I actually wasted 30 minutes of my life making this video, but it shows exactly what it looks like if I try to find a Platinum lobby. I looked for every map and every enemy faction, but all I got was two Rio lobbys and one ongoing Rio match. After that (not shown in the video) I opened up my own lobby and it "only" took ten minutes until three people who clearly have no clue about Platinum joined.


Recommended background music:

A very good example to show that farmers have nothing to do with inability to find a good random game. You search Platium and end up with either farmers or bad players because there aren't that many good players out there, not because inadequate players are filling platium games. If game changes force them out of platium, you will only end up with a painfully long waiting time instead of quality games. Farmers are out there and you don't want to play with them whether they are in platium farming or not. It's not fun to farm but really it's not their fault you can't find a decent game. Maybe a map exclusion option in game searching can help ease the pain. A "joining unstarted games only" option will also help.

Ok, let me explain it to you. These are just random numbers, but let's assume there is a 20% chance of finding a non-Rio lobby and there is a 20% chance that a non-Rio lobby is actually filled with good Platinum players. That means a U/U/P player has a 4% chance of finding a good lobby. Without Rio, he would have a 20% chance (assuming that most Rio players go back to Gold/Silver). Of course this is a simplification, but I think I made my point.

btw: I agree this game should have an advanced search function. Either that or fix Rio...

Modifié par Hendrix137, 08 janvier 2013 - 11:14 .

[Sulaco_7]

Wow, this thread is still going. Nice! So many discussions about casuals vs. elites, farming, different play-styles, etc. I think the issue is basically this:

Do you believe that the devs intended for the player to hide in that container so that they can't be sync-killed?

Or do you believe that it is simply a map bug? An oversight on Bioware's part when they designed the map.

If you believe it is a map bug, then why not fix it?

[Original Twigman]

Sulaco_7 wrote...

Wow, this thread is still going. Nice! So many discussions about casuals vs. elites, farming, different play-styles, etc. I think the issue is basically this:

Do you believe that the devs intended for the player to hide in that container so that they can't be sync-killed?

Or do you believe that it is simply a map bug? An oversight on Bioware's part when they designed the map.

If you believe it is a map bug, then why not fix it?

A competent view of the issue.

[JewelsWinnfield]

Faulcun wrote...

What really pisses me off is the fact that there are people here who think its ok to change a product that somebody paid for just because they dont like the way they play the game. If I were to say to somebody that I dont like the way they drive to work, and close down a whole road and force them to take a 30 min detour, the first words out of all of their mouths would be... "thats f'd up". Who the hell is anybody to say how somebody else should play a game.

You missed the point here. What most people annoys is the fact that Rio farmers spam public Platinum lobbys. Rio defenders always argue that we Platinum players should just open our own lobby, but let me ask you: Why don't THEY just make their private lobbys and play Rio with their friends? Why do they have to spam public lobbys and make it harder for real Platinum players to find a game? Yes, I said "real" Platinum players, because I don't think that BioWare desigend 13 different maps and 6 hazard maps just so that everybody can play ond the same old map over and over again...

And btw, just because somebody paid for a product doesn't mean that what they do with it is right and doesn't affect others.

Faulcun wrote...

There are THOUSANDS of people who play this game. Not all of them are hardcore gamers who only strive to be as good as Jay or RedJohn. Most people are casual gamers, and intend to stay that way.

Do you really think that Platinum difficulty was made for casual players? They already have Bronze and Silver and they don't need maxed manifests. That said, casual players don't spent hours sitting in a tiny box just to get credits in a video game. That's not what I call casual.

Faulcun wrote...

Nobody is forcing you to farm, therefore nobody should be forced to stop farming

No, Rio farmers don't force me to farm. They force me to go back to Gold, play Rio with them or spend half an hour looking for a Platinum lobby. I don't see why you think it's right that Platinum players are put at a disadvantage when it comes to Platinum difficulty, whereas people who clearly can't play Platinum other than sitting in that box should dominate this difficulty.

Modifié par Hendrix137, 09 janvier 2013 - 12:08 .