235 réponses à ce sujet

[DullahansXMark]

I will not deny that you are a good player, "Air Quotes", but you're being unnecessarily biased against Smash.

Biotic Slash only gets a 1.5x bonus against barriers and armor. Smash gets that against barriers, armor, and shields. That multiplier can be further boosted for barriers and armor, as you mentioned.

Smash can prime targets for biotic explosions or tech bursts, and detonate anything. Biotic Slash can only detonate (very well if you take that evolution), and IIRC it can only detonate biotic combos.

Smash doesn't leave you nearly as prone as most people seem to imagine. Atlases are annoying for sure, but if you're one-on-one against a Banshee, you can easily kite and Smash it at the same time. No walls required.

Phantoms block BioSlash too.

Smash looks awesome when you cancel it with a heavy melee, and this is also very practical. The Slayer's heavy melee is never practical, ever.

I'll give you the part about targeting limits.

I'll safely admit, though, Biotic Slash is ultimately superior, and that Smash does need a buff. I just think you're being unfair to Smash when it's still a great power.

[ToLazy4Name]

DullahansXMark wrote...

I will not deny that you are a good player, "Air Quotes", but you're being unnecessarily biased against Smash.

Biotic Slash only gets a 1.5x bonus against barriers and armor. Smash gets that against barriers, armor, and shields. That multiplier can be further boosted for barriers and armor, as you mentioned.

Smash can prime targets for biotic explosions or tech bursts, and detonate anything. Biotic Slash can only detonate (very well if you take that evolution), and IIRC it can only detonate biotic combos.

Smash doesn't leave you nearly as prone as most people seem to imagine. Atlases are annoying for sure, but if you're one-on-one against a Banshee, you can easily kite and Smash it at the same time. No walls required.

Phantoms block BioSlash too.

Smash looks awesome when you cancel it with a heavy melee, and this is also very practical. The Slayer's heavy melee is never practical, ever.

I'll give you the part about targeting limits.

I'll safely admit, though, Biotic Slash is ultimately superior, and that Smash does need a buff. I just think you're being unfair to Smash when it's still a great power.

I don't think Smash needs a buff, so much as the Phoenix characters need a buff. Dragoons can soak up lots of damage, but the Phoenix characters have the same Shields/Health as Alliance Humans. Considering they've been experimented on by Cerberus, you'd think they would be able to generate some pretty hefty barriers. 

[hawkera_prime]

smash is one of my favourite powers, its only problems are its small range and that only the phoenixes have because they are ULTRA flimsy

[stysiaq]

Smash is cool.

Slash isn't.

that's enough for me. Besides, I doubt you think that going for Biotic Slash after a Slayer charge is a good move.

[DullahansXMark]

ToLazy4Name wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

I will not deny that you are a good player, "Air Quotes", but you're being unnecessarily biased against Smash.

Biotic Slash only gets a 1.5x bonus against barriers and armor. Smash gets that against barriers, armor, and shields. That multiplier can be further boosted for barriers and armor, as you mentioned.

Smash can prime targets for biotic explosions or tech bursts, and detonate anything. Biotic Slash can only detonate (very well if you take that evolution), and IIRC it can only detonate biotic combos.

Smash doesn't leave you nearly as prone as most people seem to imagine. Atlases are annoying for sure, but if you're one-on-one against a Banshee, you can easily kite and Smash it at the same time. No walls required.

Phantoms block BioSlash too.

Smash looks awesome when you cancel it with a heavy melee, and this is also very practical. The Slayer's heavy melee is never practical, ever.

I'll give you the part about targeting limits.

I'll safely admit, though, Biotic Slash is ultimately superior, and that Smash does need a buff. I just think you're being unfair to Smash when it's still a great power.

I don't think Smash needs a buff, so much as the Phoenix characters need a buff. Dragoons can soak up lots of damage, but the Phoenix characters have the same Shields/Health as Alliance Humans. Considering they've been experimented on by Cerberus, you'd think they would be able to generate some pretty hefty barriers. 

I know, right? When I heard the Phoenix were Ex-Cerberus experiments, I assumed that something had been done about their resilience, as well. I mean, all of those implants to boost their combat efficiency, and nothing whatsoever to improve their survivability? I don't think so, TIM.

They really do need a boost in Fitness.

[CapnManx]

Air Quotes wrote...

Canned Madness wrote...

Biotic slash will only hit 3 targets, it can hit 2 targets with the mini slashes at the start of the animation at 60% damage though.
But Smash will do much more damage when spec'd for damage, which you didn't do in your comparison, with nearly 2000 damage to shields and 4000 to barriers and armour. Beating Biotic slash by a large margin in damage

But most of your argument is based of ease of use of which Biotic slash is the clear winner but it doesn't mean that it sucks, you just don't like it due the mind-numbingly ease of use of Biotic slash; which I don't like, and that Smash is a lot harder to use compared to it.

In the end it comes down to preference, ease of use or raw damage, but this prefence doesn't mean that one power is completely outclassed by the other.

 

That extra raw damage is nothing so special, considering how close you need to get for it to work. 2 Talon shots will do more than that extra. Faster and from range. And you can use right hand advantage.  

On a larger open maps Smash is nearly useless. No cover to use it behind off, need to run huge distances under fire and perform the animation under fire, while having standard human shields with no DR or invi-frames. 

Frankly, it sounds like you are trying to play Smash to Slash's strengths rather than its own.  No power forces you to run out into the open and get shot.  When you are under fire is when you don't use Smash.  Stagger them with a heavy melee, or duck around a corner first.  Then Smash them. 

This power requires some tactical thought to use properly.  I suppose that could be considered a point against it, considering how easy Slash is to use, but there are plenty of things in this game that take some work to get the hang of.

[Canned Madness]

Air Quotes wrote...

Canned Madness wrote...

Biotic slash will only hit 3 targets, it can hit 2 targets with the mini slashes at the start of the animation at 60% damage though.
But Smash will do much more damage when spec'd for damage, which you didn't do in your comparison, with nearly 2000 damage to shields and 4000 to barriers and armour. Beating Biotic slash by a large margin in damage

But most of your argument is based of ease of use of which Biotic slash is the clear winner but it doesn't mean that it sucks, you just don't like it due the mind-numbingly ease of use of Biotic slash; which I don't like, and that Smash is a lot harder to use compared to it.

In the end it comes down to preference, ease of use or raw damage, but this prefence doesn't mean that one power is completely outclassed by the other.

 

That extra raw damage is nothing so special, considering how close you need to get for it to work. 2 Talon shots will do more than that extra. Faster and from range. And you can use right hand advantage.  

On a larger open maps Smash is nearly useless. No cover to use it behind off, need to run huge distances under fire and perform the animation under fire, while having standard human shields with no DR or invi-frames. 

I did say Biotic slash is much more easier to use than smash and the one redeeming quality it has compaired to Slash is that it puts out it's damage a lot quicker which can be vital in some suituations.

But I do see that Slash is a much easier to use option that is too similar to smash to give players incentive to choose smash so I want to see what you see is a reasonable balance for the powers.

Such as slash could be lowered to a base of 15m and the reach evolution increased to 100% to make players decide between range or damage and Smash getting a substantial damage increase and a slight range/targets hit increase.

[solidprice]

man its a bread and butter move,not a good as windmill but not a half bad power-

oh you were talking about the me3 power, not the mabinogi one?

its ok, but there is much better out there,would help it if could hit more foes.

[DullahansXMark]

Air Quotes wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

I will not deny that you are a good player, "Air Quotes", but you're being unnecessarily biased against Smash.

Biotic Slash only gets a 1.5x bonus against barriers and armor. Smash gets that against barriers, armor, and shields. That multiplier can be further boosted for barriers and armor, as you mentioned.

Smash can prime targets for biotic explosions or tech bursts, and detonate anything. Biotic Slash can only detonate (very well if you take that evolution), and IIRC it can only detonate biotic combos.

Smash doesn't leave you nearly as prone as most people seem to imagine. Atlases are annoying for sure, but if you're one-on-one against a Banshee, you can easily kite and Smash it at the same time. No walls required.

Phantoms block BioSlash too.

Smash looks awesome when you cancel it with a heavy melee, and this is also very practical. The Slayer's heavy melee is never practical, ever.

I'll give you the part about targeting limits.

I'll safely admit, though, Biotic Slash is ultimately superior, and that Smash does need a buff. I just think you're being unfair to Smash when it's still a great power.

 

It's a great power on small maps where you can hide behind cover and hit big things, but if there's swarmers, seekers or anything it's a joke. So much trouble and you do NOTHING. 

I stated that you don't need cover to make it a good move

As a reference, my experiment was on Giant. Arguably the map with the biggest open/large ratio. IIRC it was a Gold match, too.

Modifié par DullahansXMark, 05 janvier 2013 - 11:31 .

[stysiaq]

I agree that Smashers should get a passive buff.

Also, what is the maximum of the Slash targets? I'm against any target caps on powers like Slash, Smash or Shockwave.

[iOnlySignIn]

Air Quotes wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Phoenix classes are only good on small maps if you actually plan to frequently use Smash.

I doubt that will change even if you double the range of Smash.

 

At least you can smash trough some thicker cover. And it needs to hit more targets. Hitting a Ravager and doing no damage is fkn ridicilous. 

Yeah a bit more range would be nice. A little bit less cooldown would be nice too.

But don't expect it to hit an unlimitted number of targets. Snap Freeze can only hit a maximum of 3 targets, for example.

TheKillerAngel wrote...

Even if Smash is a boss killing ability, the Cerbguard is not a boss killer. Bosses all have some kind of stagger, dot, or massive damage, and the cerbguard is too squishy to absorb that sort of punishment. He's better at killing infantry.

What.

My Cerb Adept burns through Banshees and Brutes like a hot knife through butter. On Gold. With 3 points in Fitness and no Cyclonics.

The problem is that it's only doable on a small map like White or Glacier, and preferably with other Biotics.

Perhaps they should buff the movement speed and HP of the Phoenix classes, so that they can get in close on large maps without dying, like Dragoons do.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 05 janvier 2013 - 11:31 .

[DullahansXMark]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Perhaps they should buff the movement speed and HP of the Phoenix classes, so that they can get in close on large maps without dying, like Dragoons do.

I know you're semi-joking, but that would be a great idea!

[DullahansXMark]

Air Quotes wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

It's a great power on small maps where you can hide behind cover and hit big things, but if there's swarmers, seekers or anything it's a joke. So much trouble and you do NOTHING. 

I stated that you don't need cover to make it a good move

 

Well most of the times you do. Or the Prime witll LOLstunlock you before you even end the animation. 

That's different. Geth are just cheaters. Other factions are legit, though.

And to be fair, taking a biotic class against the Geth is already gimping on its own, anyway.

Modifié par DullahansXMark, 05 janvier 2013 - 11:35 .

[Ramsutin]

-unlimited targets hit
-DR for the duration of the animation or Godframes for some time (not long though)
And Smash is awesome again. Do you know how it picks its targets? Sometimes when I smash Ravagers it goes for a swarmer and ravager but other times 2 swarmers.

[stysiaq]

Air Quotes wrote...

stysiaq wrote...

I agree that Smashers should get a passive buff.

Also, what is the maximum of the Slash targets? I'm against any target caps on powers like Slash, Smash or Shockwave.

 

2 default. 3 max. But you have to drop heaps of damage for 3 targets and some pity radius. 

you sure? I was asking about Biotic Slash...

[MP-Ryan]

What the Pheonix classes need is either DR when smashing, or a much shorter smash animation - particularly the smashguard. He's just broken as-is.

[xsdob]

Of course smash is not as good as biotic slash, they're two different types of powers. That's like me saying "- Ballistic Blades - It sucks"(Compared to flamer)

Compare smash to it's more similar power, nova, and than let's see the results.