330 réponses à ce sujet

[Lenimph]

DA2's dialog wheel/paraphrasing feels like an encyclopedia compared to ME or SWTOR in terms of vagueness.

[TJPags]

Atakuma wrote...

The Woldan wrote...

Unfortunately, yes.
Press heart icon to romance. Press mask icon to be funny. Press feather icon to be reasonable. You no longer need to interpret those extremely complex and twisted pre-phrased sentences to get the meaning.
(The wheel was actually designed so that even toddlers that can't read or interpret simple words can play the game.)

<_<

No, it was designed for the people who constantly complained about being surprised by the paraphrases. They weren't going to use full dialogue with a voiced PC.

Not sure how this makes sense, since DA:O and DA:A had actual written dialogue and a silent PC.  There was no paraphrase to be confused about.

Unless you're referring to something ME related.  In which case, just because ME does it, didn't make it a good idea for DA.

[Fisto The Sexbot]

Atakuma wrote...

Viidicus wrote...

 if so, why?

Because they aren't in the business of making games to suit your personal tastes.

Then who funds them? Canatopia?

[hoorayforicecream]

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Viidicus wrote...

 if so, why?

Because they aren't in the business of making games to suit your personal tastes.

Then who funds them? Canatopia?

Shocking as it may be, there are people who don't share the same personal tastes as Viidicus who are willing to spend money to buy the games that Bioware makes. These people are the ones who fund them. I'm one of them.

[Shadow Fox]

TJPags wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

The Woldan wrote...

Unfortunately, yes.
Press heart icon to romance. Press mask icon to be funny. Press feather icon to be reasonable. You no longer need to interpret those extremely complex and twisted pre-phrased sentences to get the meaning.
(The wheel was actually designed so that even toddlers that can't read or interpret simple words can play the game.)

<_<

No, it was designed for the people who constantly complained about being surprised by the paraphrases. They weren't going to use full dialogue with a voiced PC.

Not sure how this makes sense, since DA:O and DA:A had actual written dialogue and a silent PC.  There was no paraphrase to be confused about.

Unless you're referring to something ME related.  In which case, just because ME does it, didn't make it a good idea for DA.

The problem was you couldn't tell the tone or intent of the dialouge*case in point I once had to reload a save because my male warrior accidently started a romance with Morrigan*

[Noviere]

TJPags wrote...

Not sure how this makes sense, since DA:O and DA:A had actual written dialogue and a silent PC.  There was no paraphrase to be confused about.

Unless you're referring to something ME related.  In which case, just because ME does it, didn't make it a good idea for DA.

It made sense to me  :happy:

People found the paraphrasing on the dialogue wheel in the Mass Effect games sometimes led to misinterpretation. So when Bioware implemented it in DA2, they added tone indicators to lessen confusion. At least that's how I took the post you quoted...

Whether we think the wheel is good or bad for DA doesn't matter at this point. It is what is going to be used in DA3. Hopefully they can improve on it further.

Modifié par Noviere, 07 janvier 2013 - 12:44 .

[TJPags]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

The Woldan wrote...

Unfortunately, yes.
Press heart icon to romance. Press mask icon to be funny. Press feather icon to be reasonable. You no longer need to interpret those extremely complex and twisted pre-phrased sentences to get the meaning.
(The wheel was actually designed so that even toddlers that can't read or interpret simple words can play the game.)

<_<

No, it was designed for the people who constantly complained about being surprised by the paraphrases. They weren't going to use full dialogue with a voiced PC.

Not sure how this makes sense, since DA:O and DA:A had actual written dialogue and a silent PC.  There was no paraphrase to be confused about.

Unless you're referring to something ME related.  In which case, just because ME does it, didn't make it a good idea for DA.

The problem was you couldn't tell the tone or intent of the dialouge*case in point I once had to reload a save because my male warrior accidently started a romance with Morrigan*

Yea, I had that happen.  I just chalked it up to my natural male charm. 

[Giant ambush beetle]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
The problem was you couldn't tell the tone or intent of the dialouge*case in point I once had to reload a save because my male warrior accidently started a romance with Morrigan*

In this case Bioware should have added the exact meaning of the answer, DAO had quite a few lines with a small description like (intimidate) or (lie) when things weren't 100% clear to the player. Problem fixed, no dialogue wheel needed, at least I didn't need one in DAO and never ever ran into a problem.

The dialogue wheel simply ruins roleplaying for me, I never know what the character is exactly going to say which inevitably leads to dumb surprises, in the end its feels more like watching an interactive movie than a game, it simply takes away too much control. Ultimately Bioware solved one problem and created a new one.

Modifié par The Woldan , 07 janvier 2013 - 12:48 .

[Fisto The Sexbot]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Viidicus wrote...

 if so, why?

Because they aren't in the business of making games to suit your personal tastes.

Then who funds them? Canatopia?

Shocking as it may be, there are people who don't share the same personal tastes as Viidicus who are willing to spend money to buy the games that Bioware makes. These people are the ones who fund them. I'm one of them.

So they do want your money.

[Twisted Path]

I never had a problem with not knowing the "tone" of lines you picked from in Origins. For instance when you tell Leiliana "The Maker's on our side? Then welcome aboard!" maybe your character is joking, maybe your character is being serious or maybe you're just thinking "I need every armed lunatic I can get to throw against the blight, so whatever religious nut-lady, welcome aboard."

Your character's tone and motivation is left a little ambiguous in moments like that, which I think is a good thing. It creates a greater illusion of depth for your character. And if other characters respond to you in an unexpected way, eh, I always wrote it off as them misinterpreting me. It happens.

[Maria Caliban]

jackofalltrades456 wrote...

1. There's no evidence he said that.

2. You can get the different results from the same action. Most people do. Usually, drinking a coke in the morning will wake me up. Sometimes it doesn't.

[hoorayforicecream]

Maria Caliban wrote...

jackofalltrades456 wrote...

1. There's no evidence he said that.

2. You can get the different results from the same action. Most people do. Usually, drinking a coke in the morning will wake me up. Sometimes it doesn't.

Flipping a coin is insanity. Playing a game based on dice rolls like Dungeons and Dragons? Even more insanity.

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 07 janvier 2013 - 02:21 .

[Plaintiff]

Twisted Path wrote...

I never had a problem with not knowing the "tone" of lines you picked from in Origins. For instance when you tell Leiliana "The Maker's on our side? Then welcome aboard!" maybe your character is joking, maybe your character is being serious or maybe you're just thinking "I need every armed lunatic I can get to throw against the blight, so whatever religious nut-lady, welcome aboard."

Your character's tone and motivation is left a little ambiguous in moments like that, which I think is a good thing. It creates a greater illusion of depth for your character. And if other characters respond to you in an unexpected way, eh, I always wrote it off as them misinterpreting me. It happens.

Well, the writers have outright stated that lines are written with a specific intent in mind, even in Origins. There isn't any ambiguity; even if you choose to interpret the line differently, the game only recognises the pre-determined designation of "insult", "joke" or "flirt".

If tone is pre-determined, then I think knowing tone/meaning is more vital to understanding what the character is going to say than the mere words that are said. Two lines might be identical but if one is "sarcastic" and the other is "sincere", then the context changes completely.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 07 janvier 2013 - 02:25 .

[XX-Pyro]

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Viidicus wrote...

 if so, why?

Because they aren't in the business of making games to suit your personal tastes.

Then who funds them? Canatopia?

Shocking as it may be, there are people who don't share the same personal tastes as Viidicus who are willing to spend money to buy the games that Bioware makes. These people are the ones who fund them. I'm one of them.

So they do want your money.

You must not work. If I'm wrong about that, then you don't think before you speak. It's one or the other.

[Shadow Fox]

Twisted Path wrote...

I never had a problem with not knowing the "tone" of lines you picked from in Origins. For instance when you tell Leiliana "The Maker's on our side? Then welcome aboard!" maybe your character is joking, maybe your character is being serious or maybe you're just thinking "I need every armed lunatic I can get to throw against the blight, so whatever religious nut-lady, welcome aboard."

Your character's tone and motivation is left a little ambiguous in moments like that, which I think is a good thing. It creates a greater illusion of depth for your character. And if other characters respond to you in an unexpected way, eh, I always wrote it off as them misinterpreting me. It happens.

Oh I just find it odd that people freak out over paraphrasing yet don't care that they're character's lines aren't clearly defined and the same can be argued for the paraphase or autodialouge system and no in a scripted video game the characters can't misinterpet what you say the lines are ment to have a specific meaning and envoke a certain reaction from the npcs.

[In Exile]

TJPags wrote...

Unless you're referring to something ME related.  In which case, just because ME does it, didn't make it a good idea for DA.

They're talking about the tone icons. The idea is to give you both the gist of what is being said and the effect the player is going for. Which is much more information that what DA:O gives you, especially when the poor grammer and unclear intent about when a line is a joke or not leads to absurd situations where the player and NPC are talking at a cross purpose.

[In Exile]

The Woldan wrote...
In this case Bioware should have added the exact meaning of the answer, DAO had quite a few lines with a small description like (intimidate) or (lie) when things weren't 100% clear to the player. Problem fixed, no dialogue wheel needed, at least I didn't need one in DAO and never ever ran into a problem. 

You're complely wrong. If you want an example, talking to Morrigain is a great one. At one point she remarks about human cultures - "What is with all of the touching [in reference to things like hugs and handshakes]"? Your response can be "Did all the bad touching upset you"? To which Morrigain replies "At least with that sort of touching I could divine the intent". Which reads that line as either somewhat flirty or sexual, but I read it as a sarcastic quip about her being afraid of handshakes.

The dialogue wheel simply ruins roleplaying for me, I never know what the character is exactly going to say which inevitably leads to dumb surprises, in the end its feels more like watching an interactive movie than a game, it simply takes away too much control. Ultimately Bioware solved one problem and created a new one.

Well, that's what the silent dialogue did for me. I had to guess at the grammar, and never had an idea what my PC was going to try to say until an NPC reacted to it.

[In Exile]

Twisted Path wrote...
Your character's tone and motivation is left a little ambiguous in moments like that, which I think is a good thing. It creates a greater illusion of depth for your character. And if other characters respond to you in an unexpected way, eh, I always wrote it off as them misinterpreting me. It happens.

And you never tell people you happen to offend that they misinterpreted you? Maybe you like to be passive, but I don't, and that breaks the experience for me.

[Fisto The Sexbot]

XX-Pyro wrote...

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Viidicus wrote...

 if so, why?

Because they aren't in the business of making games to suit your personal tastes.

Then who funds them? Canatopia?

Shocking as it may be, there are people who don't share the same personal tastes as Viidicus who are willing to spend money to buy the games that Bioware makes. These people are the ones who fund them. I'm one of them.

So they do want your money.

You must not work. If I'm wrong about that, then you don't think before you speak. It's one or the other.

 No, listen here... I have feelings too. I have feelings too bro. OK?

[Fisto The Sexbot]

Plaintiff wrote...

Twisted Path wrote...

I never had a problem with not knowing the "tone" of lines you picked from in Origins. For instance when you tell Leiliana "The Maker's on our side? Then welcome aboard!" maybe your character is joking, maybe your character is being serious or maybe you're just thinking "I need every armed lunatic I can get to throw against the blight, so whatever religious nut-lady, welcome aboard."

Your character's tone and motivation is left a little ambiguous in moments like that, which I think is a good thing. It creates a greater illusion of depth for your character. And if other characters respond to you in an unexpected way, eh, I always wrote it off as them misinterpreting me. It happens.

Well, the writers have outright stated that lines are written with a specific intent in mind, even in Origins. There isn't any ambiguity; even if you choose to interpret the line differently, the game only recognises the pre-determined designation of "insult", "joke" or "flirt".

If tone is pre-determined, then I think knowing tone/meaning is more vital to understanding what the character is going to say than the mere words that are said. Two lines might be identical but if one is "sarcastic" and the other is "sincere", then the context changes completely.

I distinctly remember being able to say something, and then Morrigan asking.. "Shall I take that as a compliment?" And you could further answer with ambiguity "If you'd like." There were other examples like these "or perhaps you meant X."

It's very possible to support ambiguity. I wish people stopped pretending like it's impossible.

[Shazzie]

Hurray! I get to once again save the game before every single conversation, whereupon I become surprised at my character saying things I never would have expected nor chosen if I'd known about them, and reloading the save until I get things right!

I just so love all the surprises at what my character says and does- the character I thought I would be controlling and making any and all decisions for- but damn if being a back-seat driver doesn't give you such a better view of the show because of the distance it forces between you and the character you thought was yours!

Yes, this post is dripping with facetiousness. Sorry if it got all over you. I don't think it's contagious.

(Also: I'm not intending this to start a fight with those people who actually enjoy this gaming style, and honestly like the surprises. We're all different, and while of course my way is better than yours (of course it is! ...for me), that does not preclude the fact that your way is better than mine (for you). It's just too bad we can't all win. Yeah, I knew the dialogue wheel was here to stay, but I can't help disliking it... and I probably always will.)

Modifié par Shazzie, 07 janvier 2013 - 04:32 .

[KotorEffect3]

Yes and I am glad. Prefer a voiced PC as opposed to a mime.

[In Exile]

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...
I distinctly remember being able to say something, and then Morrigan asking.. "Shall I take that as a compliment?" And you could further answer with ambiguity "If you'd like." There were other examples like these "or perhaps you meant X."

It's very possible to support ambiguity. I wish people stopped pretending like it's impossible.

That conversation wasn't ambiguous. It was banter. And there aren't other examples.

[Stella-Arc]

I don't mind the dialogue wheel. I just wish it can be improved.