211 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

How would Kaidan choose Synthesis? He called the Geth "murdering machines" remember?

ME2 Legion might Refuse, "Geth will build our own future" and all that.

No way wouldME2 legion would pick refuse.

[dreman9999]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
No one is losing their freedon in control.

Until they do something the Shepalyst doesn't want them to. 

Really, you're missing the fact he it's up to you're Shepard how he deals with it.Just because he hasthe power does not mean he has to us it.

I thought that might have been ths case as well until I actually saw the Control epilogue, which clearly indicates that the Shepalyst isn't going to a hands off galactic overseer. 

That being said, the player has the final say what Shepard does unless BW SAYS OTHER WISE.

Within the constraints set by the game. 

1.It's an open ended ending. Nothing is there that indicates that.
2.Which isw hy I said"Unless bw says other wise."

[The Night Mammoth]

"There will be no compromise with the old machines".

[The Night Mammoth]

dreman9999 wrote...
1.It's an open ended ending. Nothing is there that indicates that.

Open ended on the more specific side, but yes, it does indicate the Shepalyst is going to be hands on. 

I'm not talking about it being a ruler or dictator, though that remains a possibility, just that once someone does something, whoever and whatever, that the Shepalyst doesn't think is right it will interfere. 

2.Which isw hy I said"Unless bw says other wise."

Which doesn't negate my point.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 06 janvier 2013 - 05:37 .

[ElSuperGecko]

Liara: Dstroy
Ashley: Destroy
Kaidan: Destroy
Javik: Destroy
James: Destroy
Garrus: Destroy
Mordin: Destroy
Legion: Control
Morinth: Control
Samara: Destroy
Wrex: Destroy
Grunt: Destroy
Tali: Destroy
James: Destroy
EDI: Destroy
Thane: Destroy
Zaeed: Destroy
Miranda: Destroy
Jacob: Destroy
Kasumi: Control?

[Ticonderoga117]

Is there a "Talk smack on the Catalyst option"? Because seriously, no one would take the Catalyst seriously as being the King of the Reapers after all that nonsense he spouted.

[dreman9999]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

"There will be no compromise with the old machines".

Which makes controling them an option.

[dreman9999]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Is there a "Talk smack on the Catalyst option"? Because seriously, no one would take the Catalyst seriously as being the King of the Reapers after all that nonsense he spouted.

You're deluding yourself if you think anyone on your squad would pick refuse. You think they would let themselves and races die because of your pride?

[The Night Mammoth]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

"There will be no compromise with the old machines".

Which makes controling them an option.

Not exactly sure how. Using the Crucible is a compromise, whatever your preferred color. 

Note that I'm not saying that a compromise is inherently a bad thing, just that Legion would not do so. 

[dreman9999]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1.It's an open ended ending. Nothing is there that indicates that.

Open ended on the more specific side, but yes, it does indicate the Shepalyst is going to be hands on. 

I'm not talking about it being a ruler or dictator, though that remains a possibility, just that once someone does something, whoever and whatever, that the Shepalyst doesn't think is right it will interfere. 

2.Which isw hy I said"Unless bw says other wise."

Which doesn't negate my point.

1. Sorry, nothing in it ever makes tht clear. A "how" to what Shepard would do is never stated.
2.Yes, it does. Only bw or the player can make Shepard a despot.

[The Night Mammoth]

dreman9999 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Is there a "Talk smack on the Catalyst option"? Because seriously, no one would take the Catalyst seriously as being the King of the Reapers after all that nonsense he spouted.

You're deluding yourself if you think anyone on your squad would pick refuse. You think they would let themselves and races die because of your pride?

Why would Shepard then? 

[dreman9999]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

"There will be no compromise with the old machines".

Which makes controling them an option.

Not exactly sure how. Using the Crucible is a compromise, whatever your preferred color. 

Note that I'm not saying that a compromise is inherently a bad thing, just that Legion would not do so. 

You thing the Geth would choose losing and getting controled by the reapers over controling them?

You need to understand the concept thea slim chanceis better then no chance. No one would pick distroction of themselves and their race over picking a chance of victory except out of pride.

[dreman9999]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Is there a "Talk smack on the Catalyst option"? Because seriously, no one would take the Catalyst seriously as being the King of the Reapers after all that nonsense he spouted.

You're deluding yourself if you think anyone on your squad would pick refuse. You think they would let themselves and races die because of your pride?

Why would Shepard then? 

Because the player is comiting the sin of hubris. AKA , pride.

[dreman9999]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

"There will be no compromise with the old machines".

Which makes controling them an option.

Not exactly sure how. Using the Crucible is a compromise, whatever your preferred color. 

Note that I'm not saying that a compromise is inherently a bad thing, just that Legion would not do so. 

Except that he did on rennock.

[Ticonderoga117]

dreman9999 wrote...
You're deluding yourself if you think anyone on your squad would pick refuse. You think they would let themselves and races die because of your pride?

Who said anything about dying? They would tell the Reaper King where to stick it and find a way to kill only the Reapers, once and for all if actual logic doesn't convince the Catalyst he's full of it and commit suicide.

[Ticonderoga117]

dreman9999 wrote...
Because the player is comiting the sin of hubris. AKA , pride.

Funny how you think actually thinking the problem through pride.

Shepard: Why am I listening to the leader of the Reapers? This seems stupid.

[dreman9999]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
You're deluding yourself if you think anyone on your squad would pick refuse. You think they would let themselves and races die because of your pride?

Who said anything about dying? They would tell the Reaper King where to stick it and find a way to kill only the Reapers, once and for all if actual logic doesn't convince the Catalyst he's full of it and commit suicide.

Please. the reapers are way more advance then the geth. The geth have no way to beatthem in the final battle.

[The Night Mammoth]

dreman9999 wrote...
1. Sorry, nothing in it ever makes tht clear.

"I will protect and sustain, I will act as guardian for the many."

Makes it pretty clear.

A "how" to what Shepard would do is never stated.

It'll use what tools available. 

The Reapers. Force, Manipulation, doesn't matter. 

2.Yes, it does. Only bw or the player can make Shepard a despot.

I didn't say it would make the Shepalyst a despot. 

[The Night Mammoth]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

"There will be no compromise with the old machines".

Which makes controling them an option.

Not exactly sure how. Using the Crucible is a compromise, whatever your preferred color. 

Note that I'm not saying that a compromise is inherently a bad thing, just that Legion would not do so. 

Except that he did on rennock.

The Geth say this after Rannoch, I'm pretty sure. 

Also, Legion makes it pretty clear that what the Geth did was a mistake. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 06 janvier 2013 - 05:57 .

[dreman9999]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Because the player is comiting the sin of hubris. AKA , pride.

Funny how you think actually thinking the problem through pride.

Shepard: Why am I listening to the leader of the Reapers? This seems stupid.

Slim chance better then no chance. You're missing the fact here that you have no way to beat them outside of the crucible.

[darkiddd]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1.It's an open ended ending. Nothing is there that indicates that.

Open ended on the more specific side, but yes, it does indicate the Shepalyst is going to be hands on. 

I'm not talking about it being a ruler or dictator, though that remains a possibility, just that once someone does something, whoever and whatever, that the Shepalyst doesn't think is right it will interfere. 

2.Which isw hy I said"Unless bw says other wise."

Which doesn't negate my point.

I agree. In mass effect you always fought for self determination. The endings are just the paths you are willing to take to stop the reapers but in those paths you always compromise your values more or less to stop them. Even in destroy you kill EDI, the geth and maybe other synthetic lifeforms we never heard of. It is morally wrong but is the least morally wrong choice of those you are presented. 

When you choose control you do it for three reasons:

1-Because you are seduced by the power of controlling the reapers (even I admit that in the control ending there's is an awesome feel of unstoppable power I'm drawn to)  

2-Because you don't want to compromise your values and want to save everyone (except that you do it even if you don't see it at first)

3- Both reasons, you want to protect anyone and it doesn't hurt if you become a demigod right?

But if you accept control you are ultimately agreeing with reapers and their methods at least at a subconscious level. No matter renegade or paragon Shepard says he will protect the many. What happens with the minorities. You are in the end a dictator who controls everything as he/she sees fit because like the reapers you end up believing that order can only be established through brute force and power. You lose you innocence and your freedom and become a reaper on the outside and the inside. You become what you fought against and the cycles recommence renewed. 

I like this ending because at least Bioware knew how to show the irony of this choice without explicitly stating it if you were paragon.

[Ticonderoga117]

dreman9999 wrote...
Slim chance better then no chance. You're missing the fact here that you have no way to beat them outside of the crucible.

Because no one tries. We gave up after one hour. "Nope, the flying to meet them tactic didn't work, guess we lost unless we find some badly thought up and executed plot device to save the day!"

[dreman9999]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

"There will be no compromise with the old machines".

Which makes controling them an option.

Not exactly sure how. Using the Crucible is a compromise, whatever your preferred color. 

Note that I'm not saying that a compromise is inherently a bad thing, just that Legion would not do so. 

Except that he did on rennock.

He didn't. 

I'm sorry. Did he not have the belief the true geht should build there own future and not use reaper tech?
Did he not later found out that not using reaper tech to advance his race would lead to their enslavement and comprimise his beliefs to save his people?

That is not a comprimise?

[Genetic Destiny]

dreman9999 wrote...

Galbrant wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Galbrant wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Galbrant wrote...

Refuse, unless they are indoctrinated or metagaming.

HAHAHAHAH...Nope. Here's a hint. Garrus is ok with you killing Mordin because the end results aids his race.

It pretty cleary everyone in your crew will use the crusible. The question is wheather it destory, control or synthisis.

My Garrus is not influence by your Shepard.  So he'll refuse like any logical Shepard. 

It's not Shepard logic. It's his own. What do you thing Garrus means by ruthless calculus?He says this no matter what Shepard anyone has.

Understand this, no one in your crew is going to pick refuse. Not one person.

I have a very hard time  believing Garrus would choose one of the Catalyst inane options.  Shepard was given no evidence to back up the catalyst claims all you have is a word from a monster who is riddle with broken logic that created an entire Army of monsters  that excel at indoctrination.  

Unless it was forced from Biowares ****** poor writing every one would refuse. 

Then you clearly don'tundestand Turian phylosophy. Any way to victory they take it. Evidence does not matter, stopping the reapers does...And a slim chance is better then no chance. That's common sense.


No one in your crew is going down the same road as  hubris as you and it's clear everyone in the topic understandsthat.

Agreed. Turians are taught from infancy that as long as one survives the fight was worth it.

[The Night Mammoth]

dreman9999 wrote...
I'm sorry. Did he not have the belief the true geht should build there own future and not use reaper tech?
Did he not later found out that not using reaper tech to advance his race would lead to their enslavement and comprimise his beliefs to save his people?

That is not a comprimise?

I edited my post. This is no longer relevant.