353 réponses à ce sujet

[Inquisitor Recon]

Was David Bowie mentioned in this topic yet?

[SeptimusMagistos]

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

I should release individuals that are dangerous to me and mine so that they can live better lives than we do? You make it sound so appealing.[/quote]

Separate arguments. It's just that you keep disingenously describing the tower as luxurious even while presenting arguments that left to their own devices the mages would have great economic power. Their accommodations in the tower might have been a good tradeoff for a peasant, but they aren't one for a mage.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...
There is nothing undue about it. The Circles are vital if the mundanes of Thedas are to remain safe and free and with any say in the world.[/quote]

I disagree.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...
And they are fairly humane institutions. The mundanes of Tevinters have far less luck.[/quote]

As do the mages. It's funny how brual dictatoriships/oligarchies/noble republics tend to suck for everyone, isn't it?


[quote]MisterJB wrote...
These are still extremely dangerous individuals. I admit the Harrowing is a crude process but it does a good job of weeding out those more likely to become abominations and kill innocents.[/quote]

In this specific case I was referring to the ones who aren't even considered worth testing. I believe there is stuff about that in the mage origin.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...
He foolishly tought Vengeance was a benevolent spirit he could work it. Discovering that your best friend is now a demon is bound to be shocking.[/quote]

Aw, Justice isn't a demon. Just a little out of his element. I got them to work together again quickly enough.

Don't know why we never went back to finish the job, though.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...
So, basically, you want to kill Gregor; a reasonable templar who prefers to risk dormant demons over risk killing innocents; to die because:
a)He is not about to allow just any mage to walk unsupervised whenever they please.
b)Tried to contain a blood mage.
c)Correctly predicted. that no mage could survive a veritable army of demons, abominations and blood mages roaming the tower? Wynne only survived and helpted others do the same because of the intervention of Faith which is not something Gregoir could have predicted.[/quote]

In-character, the Warden grew up around people around people he knew might someday try to kill him, and Gregoir became a symbol of everything he hated.

Out-of-character I don't actually hate this specific guy too much, but tha'ts mostly because I resolved the storylines successfully. Knowing that a small mistake could get Jowan re-imprisoned or killed or end up with the Templars trying to kill the Circle definitely doesn't endear me to him.


[quote]MisterJB wrote...
First, we saw a single Circle where these regulations were broken and even there only by a group of three or so templars.
Second, the tensions in Asunder were understandable and caused by the actions of Anders. Normally, mages of the White Spire are allowed to visit the city and buy personal property and conduct magical experiments.[/quote]

If the mages' rights can be taken away whenever the Templars decide to do so, then the mages have no rights.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...
That's shorth sigthed. And many mages are just happy in the Circle.[/quote]

I'm sure they'll be even happier in whatever comes next.


[quote]MisterJB wrote...
This is so going to turn into a Merril discussion[/quote]

Hm. Let's not. To clarify: I as the player simply don't like the Templars or what they're doing, so I'm inclined to do everything I can to destroy them as an organization. I decided that in my Hawke this manifests as taking one look at Merrill and deciding that anyone who tries to stop her from cooing at guard dogs is going to die. I'm aware that it's not the only personal reaction, but it's mine.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...
Merril was not born a blood mage. She chose to become one thus making herself a danger to everyone around her. It's not an injustice.[/quote]

And the Templars weren't born Templars. They chose to make themselves into what they are.

More importantly, I feel that Merrill makes a very good case for why blood magic isn't intrinsically evil.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...
He is constantly trying to convince her to stand against the templars.[/quote]

Hey, she's the one who always gains a ton of approval from quests that help mages and harm Templars. Anyway, trying to convince someone to fight on your side is different from wanting to kidnap and brainwash them.


[quote]MisterJB wrote...
The only people who are going to benefit from this war are either mage supremacist or templar fanatics; depending on who wins; Tevinter and Qunari.[/quote]

Mage freedom isn't the same thing as mage supremacy.


[quote]MisterJB wrote...
She activelly prevented Meredith from calling the RoA. Demanding her to do more is short sigthed. If she had publically denounced Meredith, she would just counter with the claim Elthina was being controlled by blood magic, the templars would split, blood mages would take this opportunity and the whole city would descend into madness with many innocents being killed in the fighting. And if the mages won, then it would be the start of another Tevinter and the Divine would call an Exhalted March on the city.
Elthina did what she could but she was, and should be, concerned about more lives than the mages,[/quote]

Yes, I understand that she didn't have much influence over the situation. But telling the mages they should sit back and take Meredith's abuse because of that wasn't helping matters. The correct action would have been to use her official authority against Meredith and let her rebel. That way fewer Templars would follow the insane woman. And after she was defeated and those who would prefer to be apostates all ran away, Elthina would even have a more compliant circle to manage again. Instead she just let the pressure build until it broke everything.


[quote]MisterJB wrote...
Because blood mages weren't constantly threatening the city? No, it's always the templars.[/quote]

I'm with Anders on this one. The blood mages we met in Act I were mostly insane. The blood mages we met in Act III used to be perfectly nice people before the Templars dragged them off. The more authoritarian Meredith became, the worse things got.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...
What? All Lambert did was walk into the conclave and demand the surrender of Rhys based on the very compelling evidence found in his quarters. The mages were the one who stopped him from doing his job.
I don't believe attacking the mages was the most correct course of action but they helped start this war, directly and indirectly, through open means and secrecy.[/quote]

Oh, I'm not arguing about whether they helped start the war. I'm arguing they were completely right to do so. Sometimes war is the correct course of action.

Modifié par SeptimusMagistos, 08 janvier 2013 - 08:13 .

[The Elder King]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...


Aw, Justice isn't a demon. Just a little out of his element. I got them to work together again quickly enough.

Of course you did. Because Anders agreed with J/V's views (though I'd like to point out that in the dialogue with Anders during The Last Straw he seemed a bit.... "influenced"). The moment Anders started thinking that maybe destroying the Chantry wasn't a good idea, Justice went in "Assuming direct control" mode.
Not to mention that despite what you can say about Justice, he wanted to kill a woman only because she said that it was a monster.
Justice, in his purest form, wasn't a "demon" (if we're using the Chantry/Circle definition), though he was already a bit extreme in DAA. When it went inside Anders, the latter's rage and hatred corrupted it. It is a demon, or a malicious spirit, if you prefer.
I'm not against magic and mages, but putting a spirit  inside yourself is idiotic. Expecially when its host is full of rage and hate against someone.

Modifié par hhh89, 08 janvier 2013 - 08:25 .

[SeptimusMagistos]

hhh89 wrote...

Of course you did. Because Anders agreed with J/V's views (though I'd like to point out that in the dialogue with Anders during The Last Straw he seemed a bit.... "influenced"). The moment Anders started thinking that maybe destroying the Chantry wasn't a good idea, Justice went in "Assuming direct control" mode.

Only if you get them fighting.

hhh89 wrote...
Not to mention that despite what you can say about Justice, he wanted to kill a woman only because she said that it was a monster.

It's more complicated than that. She claimed that Justice was a monster for killing a Templar who was about to harm her. Justice assumed that she's been so deeply indoctrinated by Templar propaganda she might as well be one of them. He failed to consider mitigating factors, such as her existing fright.

It's what happens when you bring benevolent spirits out of the fade. Misunderstandings and the occasional semi-unintentional murder.

hhh89 wrote...

Justice, in his purest form, wasn't a "demon" (if we're using the Chantry/Circle definition), though he was already a bit extreme in DAA. When it went inside Anders, the latter's rage and hatred corrupted it. It is a demon, or a malicious spirit, if you prefer.

I disagree. They're having some trouble coordinating, but it gets much better if you encourage them to work together.

hhh89 wrote...

I'm not against magic and mages, but putting a spirit  inside yourself is idiotic. Expecially when its host is full of rage and hate against someone.

I won't say it's necessarily the best idea - the procedure is kind of wonky, after all - but trying to equate Anders with the wildly insane abominations around Kirkwall is silly.

The Hierophant wrote...

Anders: So, when you first did blood magic, it was... just an accident, right?
Anders: You cut yourself and realized the power? You didn't actually deal with a demon?
Merrill: Oh, no. I did.
Anders: Why would you do that?
Merrill: I needed his help. He was really very nice about it.
Anders: Of course he was! He's using you to get a foothold in a mortal brain!
Merrill: He's a spirit. He offered me his aid. I hardly think you're one to criticize.

And you'll notice how she gave the demon nothing in return. And at the point where she thought it might actually get someting from her, she brought along people to kill them both if anything went wrong.

Merrill isn't naive. She's just willing to take risks.

The Hierophant wrote...

Anders: Your Keeper did not deserve that death.
Merrill: It was my risk to take! I never asked her to do this for me.
Anders: She knew you didn't have the strength to resist the demon. That's why it picked you.
Merrill: Why are you doing this? What can I do about it now?
Anders: Make up for your mistakes. Most blood mages never get a second chance.

Honestly, my theory is that it was after the Keeper in the first place. Which is why the seal on its cave is broken way back in Act II.

And even if not, that's still just Anders' opinion of the Keeper's opinion of the demon's opinion of Merrill's strength. Forgive me if I have doubts in such an assessment.

Modifié par SeptimusMagistos, 08 janvier 2013 - 08:48 .

[The Elder King]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Of course you did. Because Anders agreed with J/V's views (though I'd like to point out that in the dialogue with Anders during The Last Straw he seemed a bit.... "influenced"). The moment Anders started thinking that maybe destroying the Chantry wasn't a good idea, Justice went in "Assuming direct control" mode.

Only if you get them fighting.

I don't get them to fight. I get them to disagree. And Justice forced himself on Anders too obtain its goal.

hhh89 wrote...
Not to mention that despite what you can say about Justice, he wanted to kill a woman only because she said that it was a monster.

It's what happens when you bring benevolent spirits out of the fade. Misunderstandings and the occasional semi-unintentional murder.

Justice is benevolent in the sense that it didn't want to harm humans, but it's not exactly a pacifist, or a moderate. It's a bit too extreme in his view. Though this is obvious, since it embodies Justice. It doesn't know compromises on its beliefs.

I disagree. They're having some trouble coordinating, but it gets much better if you encourage them to work together.

Again, it gets much bettee because Anders agreed with Justice's view. Justiice is happy to let Anders in control as long as he doesn't disagree with it, and I'm not talking about disagreeing in helping mages (something that Anders didn't abandon in rivarly path), but believing that blowing up the Chantry might be too much. He's had all the right to change his mind and believing in more moderate methods. Justice forced him to do what it wanted. So regardless the fact that I believe it's malicious, it still shown no sign of allowing Anders to act as he pleased, if he disagreed with Justice (not to mention that I believe that Anders reaching that decision in Act 3 was due to a bit of influence of Justice, but I admit there's no proof about that).

I won't say it's necessarily the best idea - the procedure is kind of wonky, after all - but trying to equate Anders with the wildly insane abominations around Kirkwall is silly.

I wasn't trying to equate Anders to normal abominations, because his situation is different. Though it was clearly shown that Anders has no real control of Justice, since the latter can control the former and act as it pleased if Anders acts in a way it doesn't like.
My point was is that allowing spirits inside someone is extremely dangerous, and even if there's methods to make this process safe (which we don't know, since the seers in Rivain often die due to possession, but nobody care about it), Anders wouldn't be the best candidate regardless, since his negative emotions can corrupt a spirit.

[The Elder King]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...


And even if not, that's still just Anders' opinion of the Keeper's opinion of the demon's opinion of Merrill's strength. Forgive me if I have doubts in such an assessment.

I agree, while I think that what Merrill was doing was extremely dangerous (using the demon), we don't know if the demons would've succeed in possessing her. Anders have no clue about what Marethari or the demon were thinking.

[The Hierophant]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Having culture shock about a completely foreign society doesn't mean that it makes sense for Merrill to betray her friend or lover in a matter of seconds. It's no different for virtually much every other companion stabbing Hawke in the back (except Anders). Just because a demon claimed he could give them what they wanted doesn't mean he could do so. Plot Railroading for this quest isn't an indication of who the character actually is.

<My bad just noticed> Merrill learned a forbidden magic , blood magic from a demon against the wishes of her clan in order to cleanse the shard in an attempt to build the Eluvian. She accepted exile from said clan because she wanted to continue building the mirror. She did all that because she believes that the Eluvian would save the Dalish, and her clan. Merrill stating that she puts her clan's future above Hawke and co is in no way inconsistent with her extreme methods in attaining her goal.

I doubt Varric, Aveline, Fenris, and Isabella have the same  knowledge on what a Desire, Pride Demon is fully capable of, or having resistance to it's influence unlike a mage/templar. 

LobselVith8 wrote...

You realize she isn't actually serious in that scene? Merill seriously says to Anders:

Merrill: Are you all right?

Anders: I nearly killed an innocent girl. How could I be all right?

Merrill: I'm sorry.

Anders: You're sorry? For me? This could be you! You could be the next monster threatening helpless girls!

Merrill: Anders... there's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was. All spirits are dangerous. I understood that. I'm sorry that you didn't.

You got me here, but imo a blood mage driven by desperation into chatting with demons and joking about the said demon's politeness is not funny.

LobselVith wrote...

Merrill isn't "that bright" because her Keeper let loose Audacity, became an abomination, didn't warn anyone in her clan about what she was doing, and endangered everyone (including Merrill) with her actions? Meanwhile, Merrill studied the lore and extrapolated information from the shard, successfully cleansed the shard of the darkspawn taint, and asked Hawke to accompany her to avoid any civilian casualities if Audacity managed to get free from the totem - as Audacity could only escape from the totem if someone intentionally released him. Do I even need to explain what's wrong with your claim here?

 
I partly agree as unlike Marethari, Merrill bought Hawke with her so i give her some props, but she planned to summon Audacity as it claimed to have witnessed firsthand the construction of an Eluvian, as her's wouldn't work. Her plan hinged on Audacity being forthright up until the end which is laughable, but Marethari derped.

My issue is that for nearly a decade Merrill relied on knowledge provided by a trapped carnivourous spirit,  who obviously witheld key information just so that it could bargain for it's freedom later, but Marethari took the bait instead.

As we have seen multiple times in the series - Desperation + Demons = bad. Luckily for Merrill she had Hawke with her.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 08 janvier 2013 - 10:17 .

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

If he's alive after DA2:



If he's not, based on players' choices, then I guess Fiona or Rhys.

[The Hierophant]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Anders: So, when you first did blood magic, it was... just an accident, right?
Anders: You cut yourself and realized the power? You didn't actually deal with a demon?
Merrill: Oh, no. I did.
Anders: Why would you do that?
Merrill: I needed his help. He was really very nice about it.
Anders: Of course he was! He's using you to get a foothold in a mortal brain!
Merrill: He's a spirit. He offered me his aid. I hardly think you're one to criticize.

And you'll notice how she gave the demon nothing in return. And at the point where she thought it might actually get someting from her, she brought along people to kill them both if anything went wrong.

Merrill isn't naive. She's just willing to take risks.

My problem with her is the unfounded belief that the Eluvian would restore the Dalish to power, and that the reconstruction of the Eluvian soley relied on Audacity being honest until the end. IIRC Her bringing Hawke to bargain with Audacity was a last ditch effort before Marethari happened.

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Anders: Your Keeper did not deserve that death.
Merrill: It was my risk to take! I never asked her to do this for me.
Anders: She knew you didn't have the strength to resist the demon. That's why it picked you.
Merrill: Why are you doing this? What can I do about it now?
Anders: Make up for your mistakes. Most blood mages never get a second chance.

Honestly, my theory is that it was after the Keeper in the first place. Which is why the seal on its cave is broken way back in Act II.

And even if not, that's still just Anders' opinion of the Keeper's opinion of the demon's opinion of Merrill's strength. Forgive me if I have doubts in such an assessment.

With how easily Merrill gave in to Wryme's offer, i think it gives some weight to Anders theory.

But if your theory is true then that would mean Audacity successfully chessmastered Merrill, and Marethari into his freedom. That would make him the most crafty antagonist in DA2(not saying much but still...) with Petrice as a distant second.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 08 janvier 2013 - 10:14 .

[Cobra's_back]

In Exile wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

You have to admit it worked.

It didn't. According to the DA Wiki in Asunder, it wasn't even Anders's actions that led to the separation from the Chantry of the Circles.

All it led to was the Rite of Annulment and the death of the Kirkwall Circle for the sake of Ander's vanity.

Yes, I'll second that.  The book Asunder covers this nicely. I actually liked the game more after reading the book.

[Goatmanwashere]

1, Fiona. For the Circle of Magi and other mages as a whole.
2, Rhys. For the moderates and loyalists.
3, Adrian. For the extremists and radicals.
4, Anders. As a beacon to rally around, mainly for extremists and radicals.
5, Evangeline. For Templars and other non-mages who support the Mages.

[LobselVith8]

The Hierophant wrote...

I doubt Varric, Aveline, Fenris, and Isabella have the same knowledge on what a Desire. Pride Demon is fully capable of, or having resistance to it's influence unlike a mage/templar.

I doubt any grown and sane adult would attempt to murder a friend simply because someone promised them something they can't realistically deliver on. It's a nonsensical quest where companions are railroaded into attacking Hawke just because the script says so. The fact that you even admit companions are OOC in accepting those deals makes this discussion pointless when you already concede that the companions wouldn't do that.

As for Merrill, she left the clan to pursue technology that she believed could benefit the People. She spoke to a demon who was sundered from the Fade and trapped in a totem without hope of escape in order to learn blood magic. She studied the lore and extrapolated information from the shard; she successfully cleansed the shard of the taint. I'm willing to give Merrill the benefit of the doubt, given the scope of her goal. It's certainly more altruistic than Hawke's goal of asking people to endanger their lives in the Deep Roads, risking ghoulification or death, simply because he wants to purchase a mansion and be rich.

The Hierophant wrote...

she planned to summon Audacity

Audacity is sundered from the Fade; he's trapped in the real world. Inside a totem. Audacity can't be "summoned" into the real world because he's already in the real world, trapped by ancient magic. She asks Hawke to accompany her because when she tried to communicate with Audacity (after exhausting all her other options), the trapped demon didn't respond back, and she didn't understand why (but considered Audacity could be loose, which is why she asked Hawke to accompany her to Sundermount).

The Hierophant wrote...

My issue is that for nearly a decade Merrill relied on knowledge provided by a trapped carnivorous spirit

Actually, Merrill learned blood magic from Audacity, but the developers said she utilized lore and extrapolated information from the shard. Therefore, she only relied on Audacity to learn blood magic to amplify a spell we already saw her use in Origins, simply to an amplified extent to successfully cleanse the shard of the taint.

The Hierophant wrote...

As we have seen multiple times in the series - Desperation + Demons = bad. Luckily for Merrill she Hawke.

We've seen careless use of demonology leading to bad results, while Merrill uses magic proficiently for several years. Merrill may have been wrong about the Eluvian (as she admits, and never denies that it's a risk), but she was trying to do something about the plight of the People, which I admire. She was an intelligent and proactive character, and she was one of the few bright spots for me in Dragon Age II. I think Hawke was lucky to have her.

[SeptimusMagistos]

The Hierophant wrote...

But if your theory is true then that would mean Audacity successfully chessmastered Merrill, and Marethari into his freedom. That would make him the most crafty antagonist in DA2(not saying much but still...) with Petrice as a distant second.

The fact that everything Marethari said about the demon and its plans could only have been told to her by the demon itself makes me suspicious.

[LobselVith8]

The Hierophant wrote...

My problem with beer is the unfounded belief that the Eluvian would restore the Dalish to power, and that the reconstruction of the Eluvian relied solely on Audacity being honest until the end.

It relied on the lore she studied, and the knowledge she gained from the shard she took from Ferelden - the one she was able to cleanse of the darkspawn taint. And Merrill is doing what a Dalish elf is supposed to do - reclaim the past that was lost because of the slavery imposed by Tevinter. The entire premise of the Dalish is to reclaim this past, their lore, their knowledge, and their language. She's more faithful to the premise of the People than Marethari is.

The Hierophant wrote...

With how easily Merrill gave in to Wryme's offer, I think it gives some weight to Anders theory.

With now easily every single member of Hawke's entourage will attempt to murder him because a demon made them an implausible and ludicrous offer, I'm surprised you keep bringing this up.

[Cobra's_back]

Lobseivith8

To be fair if you take Merrill, Fenris and Varric with you, Merrill is the first to give in. This way I only lost one member in the party.

However one could argue that she has learned from the experience and won't do it again.

[LobselVith8]

ghostbusters101,

That's because only one companion will betray you in the quest for either demon, but the only companion who doesn't betray you under any circumstances is Anders (and Sebastian, but he never enters the Fade to begin with). Everyone else will betray you, after being made the offer by Caress or Wryme. Isabela and Aveline will betray you to Caress, while Merrill, Fenris, and Varric will betray you to Wryme; however, only one companion will betray you at a time for either demon (so only two companions will betray you during the quest).

[Cobra's_back]

LobselVith8 wrote...

ghostbusters101,

That's because only one companion will betray you in the quest for either demon, but the only companion who doesn't betray you under any circumstances is Anders (and Sebastian, but he never enters the Fade to begin with). Everyone else will betray you, after being made the offer by Caress or Wryme. Isabela and Aveline will betray you to Caress, while Merrill, Fenris, and Varric will betray you to Wryme; however, only one companion will betray you at a time for either demon (so only two companions will betray you during the quest).

Oh, Thanks for the information.

[The Hierophant]

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

I doubt Varric, Aveline, Fenris, and Isabella have the same knowledge on what a Desire. Pride Demon is fully capable of, or having resistance to it's influence unlike a mage/templar.

I doubt any grown and sane adult would attempt to murder a friend simply because someone promised them something they can't realistically deliver on. It's a nonsensical quest where companions are railroaded into attacking Hawke just because the script says so. The fact that you even admit companions are OOC in accepting those deals makes this discussion pointless when you already concede that the companions wouldn't do that.

Tbh seeing as so many characters in DA2 were lacking in logic, reasoning, and common sense i took it as the norm. IIRC with investigation Marethari explains to the party beforehand that them being killed in Feynriel's mind while using her ritual won't lead to death in the real world as they're something like projections? 

As for Merrill, she left the clan to pursue technology that she believed could benefit the People. She spoke to a demon who was sundered from the Fade and trapped in a totem without hope of escape in order to learn blood magic. She studied the lore and extrapolated information from the shard; she successfully cleansed the shard of the taint. I'm willing to give Merrill the benefit of the doubt, given the scope of her goal. It's certainly more altruistic than Hawke's goal of asking people to endanger their lives in the Deep Roads, risking ghoulification or death, simply because he wants to purchase a mansion and be rich.

Another difference between their goals is that Hawke's had a clear intended outcome(wealth) whereas Merrill's wholly depended on what the mirror could do in relation to restoring power to her people.

LobselVith8 wrote...

Audacity is sundered from the Fade; he's trapped in the real world. Inside a totem. Audacity can't be "summoned" into the real world because he's already in the real world, trapped by ancient magic. She asks Hawke to accompany her because when she tried to communicate with Audacity (after exhausting all her other options), the trapped demon didn't respond back, and she didn't understand why (but considered Audacity could be loose, which is why she asked Hawke to accompany her to Sundermount).

I meant releasing him from the statue as that would have probably been one of his conditions, in payment for giving her the knowledge needed in completing the mirror.

Actually, Merrill learned blood magic from Audacity, but the developers said she utilized lore and extrapolated information from the shard. Therefore, she only relied on Audacity to learn blood magic to amplify a spell we already saw her use in Origins, simply to an amplified extent to successfully cleanse the shard of the taint.

If that's true then i change my opinion on her being naive.

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

As we have seen multiple times in the series - Desperation + Demons = bad. Luckily for Merrill she Hawke.

We've seen careless use of demonology leading to bad results, while Merrill uses magic proficiently for several years. Merrill may have been wrong about the Eluvian (as she admits, and never denies that it's a risk), but she was trying to do something about the plight of the People, which I admire. She was an intelligent and proactive character, and she was one of the few bright spots for me in Dragon Age II. I think Hawke was lucky to have her.

If the devs comments are true then my only issues with her are minimal like her obsessiveness, and her looking like a little girl(imo).

Still, i can't deny that she was brolic in combat, had funny banter with Varric, and co, while having a good voice
actress.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 09 janvier 2013 - 12:43 .

[The Hierophant]

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

My problem with beer is the unfounded belief that the Eluvian would restore the Dalish to power, and that the reconstruction of the Eluvian relied solely on Audacity being honest until the end.

It relied on the lore she studied, and the knowledge she gained from the shard she took from Ferelden - the one she was able to cleanse of the darkspawn taint. And Merrill is doing what a Dalish elf is supposed to do - reclaim the past that was lost because of the slavery imposed by Tevinter. The entire premise of the Dalish is to reclaim this past, their lore, their knowledge, and their language. She's more faithful to the premise of the People than Marethari is.

 Beer? lulz... Despite Marethari's lack of sense in Act 3, she has guided, and kept the clan alive for decades, so i can't dump on that.

LobselVith wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

With how easily Merrill gave in to Wryme's offer, I think it gives some weight to Anders theory.

With now easily every single member of Hawke's entourage will attempt to murder him because a demon made them an implausible and ludicrous offer, I'm surprised you keep bringing this up.

At first i thought it was some kind of mind control, but that would make Merrill look like an even bigger failure. 
Plus given how most of the characters were lacking in logic/common sense i thought it was the norm in DA2?

Modifié par The Hierophant, 09 janvier 2013 - 12:51 .

[DragonMage95]

Personally,(even though you said this person should care for all mages) I think it'd be pretty cool to see Morrigan (and possible existing son) leading the Mage Rebellion. I think shed be a bad ass rebellion leader.

[Bad King]

The face of the mage rebellion.

[Bad King]

Ideally, a morally ambiguous leader for me. Someone who tolerates blood magic amongst some of his allies but who refuses to use it himself, one who cares about his own people but at the same time is willing to sacrifice mundanes to save his own people. An agnostic character would be interesting too rather than the stereotypical "I believe in the maker and everything but I just don't like the chantry/templars" mage.

[In Exile]

Xilizhra wrote...
It's for their position, past crimes, and likelihood of repeating them.

That's what the communists said, too. Only in this case we have the added benefit of it being mages and elves killing non-human mages. Oh, and believers in the Chantry, right? We're killing them too?

[In Exile]

LobselVith8 wrote...
Actually, it's more like the quest defies common sense by having grown adults attempt to commit cold-blooded murder because a demon promised them something that he obviously couldn't deliver on a few seconds prior. You're welcome to think it's completely plausible for grown adults to try to murder someone because someone spoke to them for a few seconds and offered them something they couldn't plausibly provide to them.

Bioware admitted that the scene was poorly written - but the intent was nevertheless there that the party are all succeptible to demonic temptation. Despite the contrived way in which it was done, it seems to be to be the case that Bioware believed it was within Merril's character to be tempted by and willing deal with a demon, including selling out Hawke, if the right promise was made.

Which is why Orlais is going to be overthrown (in this hypothetical scenario). It's all part of the plan.

What makes you think Orlais is doing the marching? 

Killing the nobility who rule Orlais and oppose you trying to depose them, and anyone actively trying to kill you (such as the soldiers who work for the nobility). 

Oh, so we're just killing the nobles and the chevalier. And what are you going to do with all of the people whose fortunes ride on the current system, if they're unhappy with you? Are you going to execute them as collaborators?

What happens if we have a situation like South Africa? Are you going to force humans to give up their wealth for the sake of the elves? And what happens if a farmer doesn't want to give up his land to elves? Would she be executed?

That doesn't really make this plan any different from the mass killings committed by The Warden against the forces of Arl Howe and Teyrn Loghain, 

There's a big difference between war and purges. It's the difference between what the Warden does, and executing all of the men you captured because you believe they might rise up against you again. That's a purge.

Actually, here's a better example. You know what a purge is? The Rite of Annulment. That's what you're advocating for. Using the very same reasoning the templars would use! 

including Howe (and possibly the Teyrn himself), or pro-mage Hawke when he was killing every templar in his way to escape from the Gallows. After all, you don't play a pacifist in Dragon Age.

There's a big difference between killing someone you're fighting and executing people in cold blood. Preventing that is why my Hawke stood up to Meredith. And now you're cheerfully advocating for the same thing she does, because it's the people you don't like who have their necks on the axe.

I'm talking about the rivals who oppose you among the nobility, not the general populace.

The general populace could very well oppose you when you execute their leaders and take away their livelihoods, and especially when you tell them their elven servants are now their leaders and mages run the kingdom.

And then what do you do? 

[The Hierophant]

In Exile wrote...

Bioware admitted that the scene was poorly written - but the intent was nevertheless there that the party are all succeptible to demonic temptation. Despite the contrived way in which it was done, it seems to be to be the case that Bioware believed it was within Merril's character to be tempted by and willing deal with a demon, including selling out Hawke, if the right promise was made.

So i was partially right in my assessment of Merrill willingly taking up Wryme's offer?

Modifié par The Hierophant, 09 janvier 2013 - 07:00 .