353 réponses à ce sujet

[EpicTragedy]

It could be either a radical or a moderate and the same goes for the Templar leader.

Not to mention whether it is a radical or moderate, there will most definitely be an opposite splinter group within each faction (moderate mages if the mainstream is radical or radical mages if the mainstream is moderate, same for templar too).

[Naitaka]

Is the mage rebellion even a singular movement? I've a hard time believing that the mages even know enough about the situation in the other circles let alone work together when they seem so seclusive in the first two games. I would certainly like to see Fiona make an appearance in DA3 though.

[Urzon]

Naitaka wrote...

Is the mage rebellion even a singular movement? I've a hard time believing that the mages even know enough about the situation in the other circles let alone work together when they seem so seclusive in the first two games. I would certainly like to see Fiona make an appearance in DA3 though.

The Circles have ways of communicating with one another, but they usually reserve it for important stuff or emergencies, like going to war. So after what happened at White Spire, I can see them sending out a message to all the Circles before fleeing. Something like...

"OMM, We at wr wth 10plRs. Lol"

Modifié par Urzon, 08 janvier 2013 - 11:17 .

[Noviere]

Naitaka wrote...

Is the mage rebellion even a singular movement? I've a hard time believing that the mages even know enough about the situation in the other circles let alone work together when they seem so seclusive in the first two games. I would certainly like to see Fiona make an appearance in DA3 though.

*****SPOILER ALERT*****




In the novel Asunder, the Circles(and the Divine) have objects called sending stones, which allow long distance communication. There seems to be some risk/cost involved, as they do not use them lightly. This is how the First Enchanters of each Circle were notified of the conclave at the White Spire... Which lead to the revolt.

By the end of the novel, it's pretty clear that the various Circles know something of what happened, as refugees  from all over are fleeing to the mage 's new stronghold. The book mentions that the Templars "had cracked down" after the events at the White Spire, and struck preemptively. According to the book, every mage reacted by fighting back. One of the Circles in Rivain was wiped out under the Right of Annulment.

[Xilizhra]

It is extremely obvious that many mages have no idea how hard life is outside of the tower. The peasants of Thedas are not eating cake at every meal and reading books by the light of their hearts at night.

However, outside of Orlais, the chance of rape by omnipresent tyrants is far lower. And even in Orlais, it's still somewhat lower.

You are still thinking of the Circle in terms of punishment. It's no more a punishment than the regulations of the roads are a punishment for those who drive cars. They're a precaution, that's all.

Yes, regulations on roads... kind of like this:

Never mind that the Chantry has sheltered mages for generations.

It's probably moot, as the Chantry leadership seems to have been exploded and the rest of the institution is falling apart. We can safely leave it to rot, I suspect.

Giving mages free shelter, food and education while equally sharing power with them, you mean.
This idea that templars hold the power of life and death is such a hugh misconception. The power in the tower is divided equally between the Knight Commander and the First Enchanter. No mage may be made Tranquill or executed or sent to the Harrowing without the approval of both. And after the Harrowing, the mage can't be made Tranquil or killed under any circunstace. S/he is just sent to Aeonar which is an actual prison for mages.
Meredith broke these laws but any system can be abused if the wrong person is placed in the wrong position.

Yes, that's why they try to appoint collaborators to the First Enchanter position, like Irving. Even if it doesn't always work. And templars do hold the power of life and death if they can ever justify a Right of Annulment, regardless of how shaky it is (and all three we've seen directly, in-game or in a book, have been shaky or outright fraudulent). Moreover, individual templars seem to have more or less complete discretion in dealing with individual mages in unofficial contexts,

My way or the highway. Right.

When the other way involves a war the templars started out of petulance, the order's time is up.

The...Huon in the making? I'd have gladly lead her to the Gallows while claiming she was going to the Alienage the first day in Kirkwall had I been able to. I mean, not only can you not use a single mage as a moral compass, Merril is not even a very good one.

And I would rip your lungs out if you tried, rest assured.

Grand Cleric Elthina, a member of the Chantry, was preventing things from escalating. Had Anders not assassinated her, nothing would have happened. Same thing in Asunder, where a mage commits murder to throw the Spire into chaos.
Maybe the mages should take a long and careful look within their own ranks before claiming how templars are to blame for this war.

Chaos necessary to avoid a slow and grinding extinction. There's no way Elthina's hands were legitimately tied; she wanted Meredith to do everything she was doing, and was capable of stopping her for everything she didn't.

It does bother me hearing someone; such as Anders; going over and over and over about the "plight" of the mages when they live much better than most people in Thedas.

Such a claim, psychologically speaking, is an outright lie. People not living actively oppressed by an outside agency will tend to be happier regardless of their economic circumstances than people who are being so. Except perhaps for the outright destitute, and they're a minority in any case, so your "most people on Thedas" thing is complete crap.

[The Elder King]

Xilizhra wrote...

It is extremely obvious that many mages have no idea how hard life is outside of the tower. The peasants of Thedas are not eating cake at every meal and reading books by the light of their hearts at night.

However, outside of Orlais, the chance of rape by omnipresent tyrants is far lower. And even in Orlais, it's still somewhat lower.

You're talking, howewer, about the human population.City elves are treated far worse than mages, and the chance of rape and the rate of punishment for the aggressore are at least the same, if not worse, than in the Circles.
And the chance of rape in human population in Orlais, we have no idea, because we didn't have yet played a game in Orlais, and that Orlesian woman in Denerim said that nobles  an knights have pretty much a complete power over commoners, unless maybr if there's an higher noble who's willing to punish them. I don't see that much difference than in a Circle tower, where if the KC is known as intollerant to rape act and willing to listen to the mages, a templar wouldn't be that willing to try. Not that I'm saying that this KC is present in a lot of Circles, but from the info we know about both Circles and Orlais, the chance of having a high-ranking member of the two society to act in favour of commoners/mages in case of rape isn't that different. The commoners/mages are the majority of times probably screwed.

[Xilizhra]

You're talking, howewer, about the human population.City elves are treated far worse than mages, and the chance of rape and the rate of punishment for the aggressore are at least the same, if not worse, than in the Circles.

Human depopulation efforts have ensured that they're by no means a majority, and as the Chantry is complicit in their oppression anyway, crushing its power will be killing two templars with one stone.

And the chance of rape in human population in Orlais, we have no idea, because we didn't have yet played a game in Orlais, and that Orlesian woman in Denerim said that nobles an knights have pretty much a complete power over commoners, unless maybr if there's an higher noble who's willing to punish them. I don't see that much difference than in a Circle tower, where if the KC is known as intollerant to rape act and willing to listen to the mages, a templar wouldn't be that willing to try. Not that I'm saying that this KC is present in a lot of Circles, but from the info we know about both Circles and Orlais, the chance of having a high-ranking member of the two society to act in favour of commoners/mages in case of rape isn't that different. The commoners/mages are the majority of times probably screwed.

The thing is that even in Orlais, they aren't omnipresent. Chevaliers would have outright go on rape expeditions to endanger a lot of people, whereas templars only need to walk down the hall.

[The Elder King]

Xilizhra wrote...

You're talking, howewer, about the human population.City elves are treated far worse than mages, and the chance of rape and the rate of punishment for the aggressore are at least the same, if not worse, than in the Circles.

Human depopulation efforts have ensured that they're by no means a majority, and as the Chantry is complicit in their oppression anyway, crushing its power will be killing two templars with one stone.

I'm not so sure. The human kingdoms and nobles have their part in elves's oppression. I doubt that it will be all resolved with destroying the Chantry.
Regardless, the most important thing is that human and elves, even if elves by change will have a new homeland, have at least to learn to live without killing each others. Otherwise a new conflict will rise, and the side which is stronger will subjugate the other.

The thing is that even in Orlais, they aren't omnipresent. Chevaliers
would have outright go on rape expeditions to endanger a lot of people,
whereas templars only need to walk down the hall.

Well, there'll be more mages that will be raped than commoner, but that doesn't change the fact that the change of retaliation (with methods allowed by the law) are the same in both cases.

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...
And I would rip your lungs out if you tried, rest assured.

[Xilizhra]

I'm not so sure. The human kingdoms and nobles have their part in elves's oppression. I doubt that it will be all resolved with destroying the Chantry.
Regardless, the most important thing is that human and elves, even if elves by change will have a new homeland, have at least to learn to live without killing each others. Otherwise a new conflict will rise, and the side which is stronger will subjugate the other.

It's true, we need a full-on elven revolution. Peace will be necessary, but... can the humans be trusted?

Well, there'll be more mages that will be raped than commoner, but that doesn't change the fact that the change of retaliation (with methods allowed by the law) are the same in both cases.

And if I can bring down Orlais at the same time, so much the better.

As for JB, I respond only in the fashion in which you began.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 08 janvier 2013 - 03:52 .

[Naitaka]

Noviere wrote...

Naitaka wrote...

Is the mage rebellion even a singular movement? I've a hard time believing that the mages even know enough about the situation in the other circles let alone work together when they seem so seclusive in the first two games. I would certainly like to see Fiona make an appearance in DA3 though.

*****SPOILER ALERT*****




In the novel Asunder, the Circles(and the Divine) have objects called sending stones, which allow long distance communication. There seems to be some risk/cost involved, as they do not use them lightly. This is how the First Enchanters of each Circle were notified of the conclave at the White Spire... Which lead to the revolt.

By the end of the novel, it's pretty clear that the various Circles know something of what happened, as refugees  from all over are fleeing to the mage 's new stronghold. The book mentions that the Templars "had cracked down" after the events at the White Spire, and struck preemptively. According to the book, every mage reacted by fighting back. One of the Circles in Rivain was wiped out under the Right of Annulment.

Ah thanks for the synopsis. Seem like the Templars are pretty incompetent if they allow the mages to have unsupervised communication between each others over long distance. It would be like the Reaper hitting random planet instead of shutting down the Mass Relay network first...oh wait 

[SeptimusMagistos]

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

It is extremely obvious that many mages have no idea how hard life is outside of the tower. The peasants of Thedas are not eating cake at every meal and reading books by the light of their hearts at night.[/quote]

Maybe not, but mages would be far more likely to do so. Hell, if a group of them actually wanted to continue the circle life, they could probably chip in for their own abandoned building.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...
You are still thinking of the Circle in terms of punishment. It's no more a punishment than the regulations of the roads are a punishment for those who drive cars. They're a precaution, that's all.[/quote]

Yes, I am thinking of it as punishment. It's pretty hard to spin it some other way. As a precaution, the circles are like requiring that anyone who drives a car needs to have a policeman in the vehicle at all times. It's an undue burden for what's being accomplished.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...
Never mind that the Chantry has sheltered mages for generations.[/quote]

And used that position to tell mages the Maker hates them while stripping emotion from mages if they don't think they have enough potential to test.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...
Realizing that your an Abomination is probrably very shocking.[/quote]

He knew about this before. I understand it was all very traumatic, but we were sort of in the middle of something.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...
What for?[/quote]

Long story short? It all started the first time Hawke's cousin tried to go outside the tower and was told he wasn't allowed to. At around the time Gregoir threatened first the Warden's friend and then his circle (barring an absurdly specific condition), a blood grudge was formed.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...
Giving mages free shelter, food and education while equally sharing power with them, you mean.
This idea that templars hold the power of life and death is such a hugh misconception. The power in the tower is divided equally between the Knight Commander and the First Enchanter. No mage may be made Tranquill or executed or sent to the Harrowing without the approval of both. And after the Harrowing, the mage can't be made Tranquil or killed under any circunstace. S/he is just sent to Aeonar which is an actual prison for mages.
Meredith broke these laws but any system can be abused if the wrong person is placed in the wrong position.[/quote]

Yeah, it sounds semi-tolerable in theory, but in practice the Templars apparently feel free to break those regulations at will. And even when they don't, Asunder certainly doesn't paint the mages' lives as quite the comfortable experience you seem to think of it as.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...
My way or the highway. Right.[/quote]

Well, centuries of trying to earn, appease, or buy their way to freedom have gained the mages absolutely nothing. At this point violence seems like the way to go.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...
The...Huon in the making? I'd have gladly lead her to the Gallows while claiming she was going to the Alienage the first day in Kirkwall had I been able to. I mean, not only can you not use a single mage as a moral compass, Merril is not even a very good one.[/quote]

The way my Hawke sees it, Merrill is the brightest, kindest person he's ever seen. She learned a dangerous and morally neutral magical art just to help her people, despite getting nothing but grief over it. She's never used it to harm a single person that the Captain of the Guard wasn't also comfortable with harming. And if the Templars had their way, she would be drained of her many emotions, reduced to an empty shell.

Obviously, he would have some concern over the fact that the Templars would try to take away his nice town home and lock him in a tower too, but the sheer injustice of what they wanted to do to Merrill always predominated.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...
BTW, Anders chose to throw Merril in a war[/quote]

Not really. Nobody knew she was a mage (somehow). She could have chosen to sit the whole thing out. She chose to stay.

Besides, it's a war that needed to happen. I was trying to start it the whole time. And while I'm not happy with the exact manner Anders used to start the war, or with the fact that he didn't bother giving anyone a heads-up so that they could get into defensible positions, I'm happy that his plan worked.


[quote]MisterJB wrote...
Grand Cleric Elthina, a member of the Chantry, was preventing things from escalating.[/quote]

No she didn't. She couldn't or wouldn't curb Meredith's atrocities. She was content to wait while the Knight Commander slowly crushed the life out of them while preaching the golden mean fallacy.

Honestly, I was done with her since Act 2. Don't expect me to mourn her.


[quote]MisterJB wrote...
Had Anders not assassinated her, nothing would have happened.[/quote]

...and Meredith would have continued her reign of tyranny while going ever more insane. Something needed to happen.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

Same thing in Asunder, where a mage commits murder to throw the Spire into chaos.
Maybe the mages should take a long and careful look within their own ranks before claiming how templars are to blame for this war.[/quote]

The mages took the choice they had left. Once it was revealed quite clearly that the Templars didn't care who was right or wrong and didn't care about the mages' supposed rights, the war was just a matter of time and circumstances.

[Tyareos]

if the mages would get the freedom then we'll have another tevinter. The chantry must control the mages of thedas but with a less punishment. We can't forget that the mages can be corrupted by demons.

Sorry if i have gramatical or context errors. Thanks

[LobselVith8]

Xilizhra wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

I'm not so sure. The human kingdoms and nobles have their part in elves's oppression. I doubt that it will be all resolved with destroying the Chantry.
Regardless, the most important thing is that human and elves, even if elves by change will have a new homeland, have at least to learn to live without killing each others. Otherwise a new conflict will rise, and the side which is stronger will subjugate the other.

It's true, we need a full-on elven revolution. Peace will be necessary, but... can the humans be trusted?

Wouldn't the Orlesian civil war and the Mage-Templar War present an opportunity for the elves in occupied Dales to try to regain control of their nation, while everyone is currently at war and the Chantry is broken?

Xilizhra wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Well, there'll be more mages that will be raped than commoner, but that doesn't change the fact that the change of retaliation (with methods allowed by the law) are the same in both cases.

And if I can bring down Orlais at the same time, so much the better. 

Perhaps one of the leaders of the mage rebellion might ally with them? I'm sure there are elven mages who would be willing to help the elves reclaim their stolen homeland.

[Xilizhra]

Wouldn't the Orlesian civil war and the Mage-Templar War present an opportunity for the elves in occupied Dales to try to regain control of their nation, while everyone is currently at war and the Chantry is broken?

Are there any elves there now? It's possible, but we may need more than the current inhabitants.

Perhaps one of the leaders of the mage rebellion might ally with them? I'm sure there are elven mages who would be willing to help the elves reclaim their stolen homeland.

I can hope, at least...

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Seems to me Fiona has already been choosen for this position, she is the Grand Enchanter, so she already leads the mages. If I had my choice I would choose Anders since he is alive in a few of my playthroughs just see how he manages it or screws it up and with the influence of Justice/Vengence. My third choice would be Rhys, his girlfriend being a templar will see both sides and be able to council him if Fiona dies or something in the game. In the book Asunder, Fiona does seem diplomatic within the mages and their fraternities themselves, she did allow everyone to vote on the mages decisions to rebel or not.

Spoiler:
Edit:  Just thought of something.  I'd wonder since Fiona is already Grand Enchanter, would Anders/Justice/Vengence follow her decisions?   In the book Asunder Fiona says she understood why Anders did what he did in Kirkwall but she disagreed with how he did it.  I can see conflict between Anders and Fiona.  They are both hotheads but I think Anders getting top billing on that score.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 08 janvier 2013 - 05:21 .

[Sir JK]

Xilizhra wrote...
However, outside of Orlais, the chance of rape by omnipresent tyrants is far lower. And even in Orlais, it's still somewhat lower.

I'm sorry for doing this Xilizhra; but can you source this? Both statements?

Chaos necessary to avoid a slow and grinding extinction. There's no way Elthina's hands were legitimately tied; she wanted Meredith to do everything she was doing, and was capable of stopping her for everything she didn't.

Lookid that much forward to seeing her assasinated, I hear?
Meredith was not someone yo said no to, she made that abundantly clear. She was furious at Elthina just for not supporting Meredith unconditionally (or have you never seen the "if-looks-could-kill" look she cast at Elthina when she steps in at the beginning of act 3?), but outright chewing her out?
Yes, Elthina has nominal authority over Meredith. Key word being nominal... she's a civilian and thus does not and can not interfere with the orders and actions taken by the order. It's unclear whether she could have dismissed Meredith (might have been the purview of the Divine or High Seeker Lambert)... but even if she could there was no proof of any misconduct or criminal behaviour on Meredith's side.
Going against Meredith publically, rather than trying to get both sides try to solve their problems together, would only have made radicals and orthodox in chantry, military, nobility and templars very angry. And the last time someone made the templars angry they removed the regent of the city.

Why on earth would anyone believe an old unorthodox woman with uncertain loyalties would have survived the night?

[MisterJB]

[quote]SeptimusMagistos wrote...
Maybe not, but mages would be far more likely to do so. Hell, if a group of them actually wanted to continue the circle life, they could probably chip in for their own abandoned building.[/quote]
I should release individuals that are dangerous to me and mine so that they can live better lives than we do? You make it sound so appealing.

[quote]
Yes, I am thinking of it as punishment. It's pretty hard to spin it some other way. As a precaution, the circles are like requiring that anyone who drives a car needs to have a policeman in the vehicle at all times. It's an undue burden for what's being accomplished.[/quote]
There is nothing undue about it. The Circles are vital if the mundanes of Thedas are to remain safe and free and with any say in the world.
And they are fairly humane institutions. The mundanes of Tevinters have far less luck.

[quote]
And used that position to tell mages the Maker hates them while stripping emotion from mages if they don't think they have enough potential to test.[/quote]
These are still extremely dangerous individuals. I admit the Harrowing is a crude process but it does a good job of weeding out those more likely to become abominations and kill innocents.

[quote]
He knew about this before. I understand it was all very traumatic, but we were sort of in the middle of something.[/quote]
He foolishly tought Vengeance was a benevolent spirit he could work it. Discovering that your best friend is now a demon is bound to be shocking.

[quote]
Long story short? It all started the first time Hawke's cousin tried to go outside the tower and was told he wasn't allowed to. At around the time Gregoir threatened first the Warden's friend and then his circle (barring an absurdly specific condition), a blood grudge was formed.[/quote]
So, basically, you want to kill Gregor; a reasonable templar who prefers to risk dormant demons over risk killing innocents; to die because:
a)He is not about to allow just any mage to walk unsupervised whenever they please.
b)Tried to contain a blood mage.
c)Correctly predicted. that no mage could survive a veritable army of demons, abominations and blood mages roaming the tower? Wynne only survived and helpted others do the same because of the intervention of Faith which is not something Gregoir could have predicted.

Honestly, what?

[quote]
Yeah, it sounds semi-tolerable in theory, but in practice the Templars apparently feel free to break those regulations at will. And even when they don't, Asunder certainly doesn't paint the mages' lives as quite the comfortable experience you seem to think of it as.[/quote]
First, we saw a single Circle where these regulations were broken and even there only by a group of three or so templars.
Second, the tensions in Asunder were understandable and caused by the actions of Anders. Normally, mages of the White Spire are allowed to visit the city and buy personal property and conduct magical experiments.

[quote]
Well, centuries of trying to earn, appease, or buy their way to freedom have gained the mages absolutely nothing. At this point violence seems like the way to go.[/quote]
That's shorth sigthed. And many mages are just happy in the Circle.

[quote]
The way my Hawke sees it, Merrill is the brightest, kindest person he's ever seen. She learned a dangerous and morally neutral magical art just to help her people, despite getting nothing but grief over it. She's never used it to harm a single person that the Captain of the Guard wasn't also comfortable with harming. And if the Templars had their way, she would be drained of her many emotions, reduced to an empty shell.[/quote]
This is so going to turn into a Merril discussion
Never say never. From using your own blood to using that of others for the good of elvenkind is a very small step. Never mind that she was being manipulated by a demon all along despite her own mother warning her about it.

[quote]the sheer injustice of what they wanted to do to Merrill always predominated.[/quote]
Merril was not born a blood mage. She chose to become one thus making herself a danger to everyone around her. It's not an injustice.

[quote]
Not really. Nobody knew she was a mage (somehow). She could have chosen to sit the whole thing out. She chose to stay.[/quote]
He is constantly trying to convince her to stand against the templars.

[quote]Besides, it's a war that needed to happen. I was trying to start it the whole time. And while I'm not happy with the exact manner Anders used to start the war, or with the fact that he didn't bother giving anyone a heads-up so that they could get into defensible positions, I'm happy that his plan worked.[/quote]
The only people who are going to benefit from this war are either mage supremacist or templar fanatics; depending on who wins; Tevinter and Qunari.


[quote]
No she didn't. She couldn't or wouldn't curb Meredith's atrocities. She was content to wait while the Knight Commander slowly crushed the life out of them while preaching the golden mean fallacy.[/quote]
She activelly prevented Meredith from calling the RoA. Demanding her to do more is short sigthed. If she had publically denounced Meredith, she would just counter with the claim Elthina was being controlled by blood magic, the templars would split, blood mages would take this opportunity and the whole city would descend into madness with many innocents being killed in the fighting. And if the mages won, then it would be the start of another Tevinter and the Divine would call an Exhalted March on the city.
Elthina did what she could but she was, and should be, concerned about more lives than the mages,

[quote]

...and Meredith would have continued her reign of tyranny while going ever more insane. Something needed to happen.[/quote]
Because blood mages weren't constantly threatening the city? No, it's always the templars.

[quote]
The mages took the choice they had left. Once it was revealed quite clearly that the Templars didn't care who was right or wrong and didn't care about the mages' supposed rights, the war was just a matter of time and circumstances.
[/quote]
What? All Lambert did was walk into the conclave and demand the surrender of Rhys based on the very compelling evidence found in his quarters. The mages were the one who stopped him from doing his job.
I don't believe attacking the mages was the most correct course of action but they helped start this war, directly and indirectly, through open means and secrecy.

[The Hierophant]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

The way my Hawke sees it, Merrill is the brightest, kindest person he's ever seen. She learned a dangerous and, morally neutral magical art just to help her people, despite getting nothing but grief over it.

I object.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 08 janvier 2013 - 05:08 .

[MisterJB]

LobselVith8 wrote...
elves reclaim their stolen homeland.

Stolen? That land was given as gift of friendship to the elves, to which they responded with xenophobia and violence.
If the elves want to reclaim their "homeland" I suggest taking it up with Tevinter. I will be more than happy to support their war then.

Modifié par MisterJB, 08 janvier 2013 - 05:08 .

[Xilizhra]

I'm sorry for doing this Xilizhra; but can you source this? Both statements?

By definition, the mages are the only ones who have a corps of prison guards standing over them at all times, and we know what sorts of things they can get up to, even in Ferelden.

Why on earth would anyone believe an old unorthodox woman with uncertain loyalties would have survived the night?

Because then the population as a whole would have turned against the templars, whom they already dislike, while Elthina is beloved. There'd be a full-scale rebellion going on if the templars went that far.

Never say never. From using your own blood to using that of others for the good of elvenkind is a very small step. Never mind that she was being manipulated by a demon all along despite her own mother warning her about it.

As small a step as between exhausting yourself and beating other people to death with a hammer. Also, the demon was primarily after Marethari.

Also, JB, it'll be oh-so-satisfying when we get a chance to deal with the mages in a non-templar-run Circle manner and have it work out, I assure you.

If the elves want to reclaim their "homeland" I suggest taking it up
with Tevinter. I will be more than happy to support their war then.

Take on one evil empire at a time. In any case, we need Tevinter for now to check the qunari.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 08 janvier 2013 - 05:09 .

[LobselVith8]

Xilizhra wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Wouldn't the Orlesian civil war and the Mage-Templar War present an opportunity for the elves in occupied Dales to try to regain control of their nation, while everyone is currently at war and the Chantry is broken?

Are there any elves there now? It's possible, but we may need more than the current inhabitants.

In Asunder, there was said to be an elven rebellion in Halamshiral (the capital of the Dales before the Orlesian occupation).

Xilizhra wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Perhaps one of the leaders of the mage rebellion might ally with them? I'm sure there are elven mages who would be willing to help the elves reclaim their stolen homeland.

I can hope, at least...

I hope the Inquisitor can aid them, although I have my concerns; since the protagonist is going to be de facto human, it leaves me wondering if the elves will get sidelined with the Orlesian civil war storyline. I could care less about Express Celene I and Grand Duke Gaspard de Chalons; my preference is to help the elves regain control of the nation that was stolen from them when they refused to capitulate to the Chantry.

[Xilizhra]

In Asunder, there was said to be an elven rebellion in Halamshiral (the capital of the Dales before the Orlesian occupation).

A rebellion or just an occupation?

I hope the Inquisitor can aid them, although I have my concerns; since the protagonist is going to be de facto human, it leaves me wondering if the elves will get sidelined with the Orlesian civil war storyline. I could care less about Express Celene I and Grand Duke Gaspard de Chalons; my preference is to help the elves regain control of the nation that was stolen from them when they refused to capitulate to the Chantry.

I care, inasmuch as I might be able to topple the nation through it.

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...
Also, JB, it'll be oh-so-satisfying when we get a chance to deal with the mages in a non-templar-run Circle manner and have it work out, I assure you.

You really overstimate your importance to me, don't you?
Good to know you care enough to gloat, tough.

Modifié par MisterJB, 08 janvier 2013 - 05:17 .

[LobselVith8]

The Hierophant wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

The way my Hawke sees it, Merrill is the brightest, kindest person he's ever seen. She learned a dangerous and, morally neutral magical art just to help her people, despite getting nothing but grief over it.

I object. 

You object by providing a link to a scene from Night Terrors, the quest that forces every single companion of Hawke (except Anders) to betray him in a matter of seconds...

Xilizhra wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

In Asunder, there was said to be an elven rebellion in Halamshiral (the capital of the Dales before the Orlesian occupation).

A rebellion or just an occupation?

I believe it was a ruse by the Grand Duke to lure her out of the capital and ambush her.

Xilizhra wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I hope the Inquisitor can aid them, although I have my concerns; since the protagonist is going to be de facto human, it leaves me wondering if the elves will get sidelined with the Orlesian civil war storyline. I could care less about Express Celene I and Grand Duke Gaspard de Chalons; my preference is to help the elves regain control of the nation that was stolen from them when they refused to capitulate to the Chantry.

I care, inasmuch as I might be able to topple the nation through it.

Aid the elves in reclaiming the Dales, and let the remnants of the Orlesian Empire become the new capital of a mecca for mages.