475 réponses à ce sujet

[solidsnake78]

xsdob wrote...

Might get banned for this, but I can't resist.

Geth are best ponies.

Alright, thats just awesome.

[SSPBOURNE]

in it for the lolz wrote...

Did someone just set off some napalm? because I see alot of flames.

Oh god, it's like Vietnam all over again.

[HiddenInWar]

ME859 wrote...

I can't blame the devs for avoiding the forums.  Personally I couldn't handle the type of insults that seem to popping up here on a somewhat regular basis and they're right, it is inexcusable to attack a dev personally, especially when your knowledge of them is limited to their role in developing a game. 
However with that said the higher ups at Bioware laid the foundation that led to where we are today when they choose artistic integrity over fan feedback.  Keep in mind it doesn't excuse or justify personal insults but I think it's fair to say that this once rabid fanbase where Bioware could do no wrong and rely on a swarm of fans to go after each and every troll is now discouraged and passive.  The broken promises, the refusal to offer an alternate ending even as paid DLC

Now they're looking at 3 underperforming projects in Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 3, and Star Wars The Old Republic.  The 3 games they had before that were Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age Orgins, and Mass Effect.  It's not the same company.  

The sad thing is Mass Effect 3 can still be what we thought it was going to be if they make an alternate ending that ignores the red tape of artistic integrity and only relies on a combination of fan feedback and the creative minds of the writing staff.  Sadly a part of me is still stupid enough to hope for that even though I know it's a huge waste of time.

To sum up, theres plenty of blame to go around.  The trolls need to realize the devs are people, while Bioware needs to understand how they're coming across to the fanbase and why after 10 months people the more reasonable part of the fanbase is still upset.  I don't know if I qualify for the reasonable portion of BSN, I'd like to think I do but at the same time I wonder if I'm just contributing to the toxicity thats so prevelant here.  

Bolded for emphasis. Yes, the devs made some mistakes, but they are in no way different from the rest of us. Mistakes are human nature. You just have to learn to not repeat it.

[EnvyTB075]

The Bohemia Interactive forums are falling into the ****ter due to the amount of attention the ****ty mod DayZ is getting and the amount of idiots its attracting to the forums.

[ZLurps]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Great points and yes, it is very important to keep things related to content and not to personality or threats of violence or ill intent.  I don't wish any of them harm at all and I never did, but I absolutely hate that they cast us all in that light.  Blogging about the BSN in such a negative light, saying it's toxic and all, makes us seem like a bunch of well, haters.  And I think that whole idea was always awful.  I don't hate people, I dislike a game ending, in effect a product.  I don't like how they've handled this whole situation and the blog is a representation of that.  They are fighting a proxy war against their own fanbase.  Not a good business strategy.  Don't lump us all into some category and especially don't characterize us as creating a toxic environment if you won't even meet us half way or at all.  I know he didn't work on ME, but in blogging he's taking part of that on.

It's like the blog is meant for everyone to say, "oh poor Bioware, what nasty fans."  Ok, no.  That's ridiculous.  If we do things wrong, well ban us, but then also make sure you live by the rules you created on this site and mete out punishment equally.  I've had a lot of people call me nasty names and have never seen them deal with that, but I've then seen others banned for far less egregious things. 

Again, I've modded dev sites and other fan sites and this is a ridiculous way to handle things.  Someone gets out of hand, deal with it, handle the problem, don't go and complain about it to other people.  Or, if you see that something is "toxic" then get involved and try to make it better, don't blog about it-that only can make it worse.  In short the fastest way to get someone to comment negatively about you is to comment negatively about them.  How does that clean up any toxicity on this site?

Stop using twitter and blogs to discuss fans as if they don't exist.  Stop using intermediaries to fight your battle and stop making it a battle in the first place. Something's a mess?  Clean it up.  Be a positive force for change and don't foment an argument.

Kinda hate to say this, but they had this coming for a long time. I can think of two big changes, one back before BioWare Social, on the old forums, I won't go that here though.

Then, back when they were working with ME2 it IMO started to really show that they are getting more distance to forums. I don't have any reason to pick Priestly or Woo they do and did what they are paid to very well, but some things Christine Norman posted just didn't fly well in the community. She appeared like a company woman to the last but perhaps she was bit out of touch in how to communicate with fans.

It's not that it's the only thing here. Fans, kids grew up and sometimes I wonder if BW didn't kept up with what is changing. Back in the day developers were very respected, they not only knew computers but they also created fantastic worlds and adventures. Not every game was great, but even developers of not so great could be almost worshipped, games were that much a niche and gamers, many of us was a geek.

Today we have a generation that has grown up with computers, there is nothing special in them anymore. All kind of entertainment is easily available, more so than ever and games are just another form of entertainment, nothing special. This new generation don't see why they should appreciate game developers any better than they appreciate movie directors. George Lucas reputation didn't prevent anyone form saying that "Phantom Menace sucks" and same goes for about anything, including game developers.

I don't see there is much point to discuss if it's this or that generation is better or worse, it won't change anything anyway. Discussing about how to adapt in changing environment, that might actually lead to something. That's not what can be done here, but could be done in BW.

[xsdob]

OmegaXI wrote...

I can't help but to think of the great leaps the human race would make is some of the posters here would put this much energy to the progress of the human race or their jobs.

Human nature is to be composed of mostly stupid people and that smart people who progress our race forward are dimonds in the rough.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

hornedfrog87 wrote...

Gaider makes several great points throughout the blog. Several which I am afraid certain posters on this site and other forums will never truly understand. Unfortunately, BSN is not an enjoyable place to participate in. "Passionate" fans on this site have caused several to leave and just never look back. There is so much negativity and bitterness that it turns off potential posters. BSN is referred to as a dark place for Bioware fans on other sites and is often associated with the Quarian sweat thread. I tend to lurk for new info on DLC pieces or new content such as DA3 or future ME3 DLC, but hesitate to engage in discussing with others on this site. BSN for me tends to weigh on me and begins to change my very outlook on the game. The longer I engage or participate with BSN, the more depressing and critical my outlook on Bioware games becomes. While I hope for more ending content (post-Cronos DLC) to give more replayability incentive, I am actually taking a break from Mass Effect altogether until May along with all other forum discussions to focus on school and give me peace of mind. I wish Bioware the best and hope ME3 future content does smooth over fan and DEV relationships, and I eagerly await for DA3. I should go.

Not really..I just got active on BSN after ME3. & honestly, for all the vitriol and negativity, I like it here. Sure there are trolls everywhere BUT if you look beyond the negativity posters here have valid points. & not just here. In the MP section as well. Points which BW devs never address. 

Then again, I am studying to be a historian. My job/studies is to sift through mountain of crap & find the facts & evidence..So I don't mind BSN...

[Abraham_uk]

legion999 wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...
I'm not taking anyone's word for granted here.

• Who said "go to hell" and "smug barstards"?
  
• What was the context?
  
• What was the source?

I appologise if I came accross as rude...
I have heard a lot of rumours and value judgements about other people that have turned out to be completly false.
At years ago there was a girl who "apparantly" was arrested for punching her boyfriend.
After doing a bit of probing it turned out that the story was completly false.
By asking questions about the rumour, I inadvertantly spread the rumour myself.
As a result I lost a lot of friends who to this day (seven years later) refuse to talk to me.

So if you're accusing anyone of anything, I want some EVIDENCE!!!!!

[*]Read KotorEffect3's posts in this thread.

[*]Thanks man.

[Arcadian Legend]

[quote]xsdob wrote...

Might get banned for this, but I can't resist.

Geth are best ponies.

[quote]

Alright, thats just awesome.

[/quote]

Kinda looks like a taller armature with a tail. 

Modifié par Arcadian Legend, 07 janvier 2013 - 12:49 .

[EnvyTB075]

Arcadian Legend wrote...

I remember when I used to get into great discussions with EternalAmbiguity (now known as EntropicAngel) and DeanTheYoung on the ME3 boards before release. Then there's the thread drive to get ME: Deception rewritten. That was surprisingly civil and fun to be a part of. (For the most part) Bo's epic troll threads are worth mentioning too, though that might have been after ME3 came out.

But BSN. BSN has changed...

I was going to post something snarky and witty to do with MGS4's "War....has changed" quote, but i'm not smart enough.

[Volc19]

If we're only looked at as a pit of blind hate, shouldn't we just stop? I mean, I'm not sure that they pull anything of value out of our statements anymore.

[solidsnake78]

[quote]Arcadian Legend wrote...

[quote]solidsnake78 wrote...

[quote]xsdob wrote...

Might get banned for this, but I can't resist.

Geth are best ponies.

[quote]

Alright, thats just awesome.

[/quote]

Kinda looks like a taller armature with a tail. 

[/quote]

I dont think I could ram that thing with the Mako, too damn cute.

[Arcadian Legend]

Why are the quotes screwed? O.o

[Bayonet Hipshot]

The Sin wrote...

hornedfrog87 wrote...

Gaider makes several great points throughout the blog. Several which I am afraid certain posters on this site and other forums will never truly understand. Unfortunately, BSN is not an enjoyable place to participate in. "Passionate" fans on this site have caused several to leave and just never look back. There is so much negativity and bitterness that it turns off potential posters. BSN is referred to as a dark place for Bioware fans on other sites and is often associated with the Quarian sweat thread. I tend to lurk for new info on DLC pieces or new content such as DA3 or future ME3 DLC, but hesitate to engage in discussing with others on this site. BSN for me tends to weigh on me and begins to change my very outlook on the game. The longer I engage or participate with BSN, the more depressing and critical my outlook on Bioware games becomes. While I hope for more ending content (post-Cronos DLC) to give more replayability incentive, I am actually taking a break from Mass Effect altogether until May along with all other forum discussions to focus on school and give me peace of mind. I wish Bioware the best and hope ME3 future content does smooth over fan and DEV relationships, and I eagerly await for DA3. I should go.

Not really..I just got active on BSN after ME3. & honestly, for all the vitriol and negativity, I like it here. Sure there are trolls everywhere BUT if you look beyond the negativity posters here have valid points. & not just here. In the MP section as well. Points which BW devs never address. 

Then again, I am studying to be a historian. My job/studies is to sift through mountain of crap & find the facts & evidence..So I don't mind BSN...

& if by being or reading BSN posts makes people & developers more critical , isn't that a good thing ? A developer more critical of their own work ? I don't think they should post & actively participate..But they should read the posts & comments people put here & understand why people want such-&-such things or why people don't like such-&-such things....

[Zjarcal]

3DandBeyond wrote...

...but I absolutely hate that they cast us all in that light.  Blogging about the BSN in such a negative light, saying it's toxic and all, makes us seem like a bunch of well, haters.

"You can, in fact, meet and talk to some very keen and intelligent posters. And that’s very true. If it weren’t true, I wouldn’t go there at all."

I think that quote made it very clear he's not casting everyone in that light.

[Epique Phael767]

Arcadian Legend wrote...

Why are the quotes screwed? O.o

They're shivering over the thoughts of the incoming lock.

[ObserverStatus]

Arcadian Legend wrote...

wafflez wrote...
Seriously though, I feel like maybe starting a nostalgia thread now where we can just talk about the good old days.

I remember when I used to get into great discussions with EternalAmbiguity (now known as EntropicAngel) and DeanTheYoung on the ME3 boards before release. Then there's the thread drive to get ME: Deception rewritten. That was surprisingly civil and fun to be a part of. (For the most part) Bo's epic troll threads are worth mentioning too, though that might have been after ME3 came out.
But BSN. BSN has changed...

What epic troll threads, I've never written one in my life.

[3DandBeyond]

Mr Massakka wrote...

BSN might be a "toxic environment" right now and I can relate to how developers feel about this, but they should keep in mind why this happened in the first place.

The sickening people are not constantly hating because it's fun, but because they were deeply hurt themselves. People just tend to get very cynical if you treat them like ****.

You don't want to get insulted? Then just stop insulting others.

This is the big part of it.  Someone must be the first to stop.  And the one that has the biggest stick or that owns the forum and that wants our loyalty in the form of money, I would contend needs to be the one to be the bigger person here.  The BSN is a lot of different voices all with different opinions that sometimes converge.  But BW itself wields the microphone and could start to mend things, even if they don't personally believe they started it.  Again, as someone who's worked in Customer Service in retail, has worked in Emergency Services, owns a business, and all that stuff, I can say that the business always must find a way to be conciliatory and say "I'm sorry" in some way, even if it is just to say "sorry, we didn't meet your expectations".  It is always up to the one who wants you to give them money to give you a reason to want to give it. 

And, in every place I have ever worked it was not advisable to get into pissing matches with customers.  Deal with those with evil intent, and don't argue with the others.  I actually made friends with people that were mad at my workplace (without every having insulted my employer) so it can be done.  But you have to be willing to at least try.  And that's not saying that fans have done nothing wrong.  We are supposedly adults and should keep this in perspective.  It's a game, a thing, and not as important as the feelings of real people.  So we can be persistent to a fault, but it's not war.

[Jadebaby]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Xellith wrote...

There should just be a thread where only MODs, DEVS and 3Dandbeyond can post... would read many times..

Best thread ever.

Because it would be a thread consisting solely of 3DandBeyond's posts...?

I see what you did there!

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Volc19 wrote...

If we're only looked at as a pit of blind hate, shouldn't we just stop? I mean, I'm not sure that they pull anything of value out of our statements anymore.

If they don't, they will keep making games which disappoint, enrage & make people feel betrayed even more...  I think they shouldn't just ignore us...Ignoring a crowd of people has never led to anything good because they will rebel even more.... 

[Epique Phael767]

bobobo878 wrote...

Arcadian Legend wrote...

wafflez wrote...
Seriously though, I feel like maybe starting a nostalgia thread now where we can just talk about the good old days.

I remember when I used to get into great discussions with EternalAmbiguity (now known as EntropicAngel) and DeanTheYoung on the ME3 boards before release. Then there's the thread drive to get ME: Deception rewritten. That was surprisingly civil and fun to be a part of. (For the most part) Bo's epic troll threads are worth mentioning too, though that might have been after ME3 came out.
But BSN. BSN has changed...

What epic troll threads, I've never written one in my life.

MP discussion was a ripe place before the mods increased their prescence.