68 réponses à ce sujet

[Dhiro]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

Ally: Health < 50% = Heal
Two or More Allies: Health < 50% = Group Heal
Ally: Dead = Revive

How do you script that? Like this?

Ally: Health < 50% = Use this condition for next tactic
Ally: Health < 50% = Group Heal

I never tried that cause I figured it would trigger on the same ally twice (programming-wise it should, no?). I always end up simply doing,

Ally: Health < 50% = Heal
Ally: Health < 50% = Group heal

That way group heal can functioin like a secondary heal, and it always comes out later on in the fight. Hopefully others are damaged by then >_>

In DA II they introduced some new tactics and conditions, and that is one of them :>

[BubbleDncr]

I hated those blood mage/spirit healer modes with those restrictions as well, but I understand why they did it. Because in origins, if you took blood mage AND spirit healer, you were quite overpowered.

Tho since its a single player game, I don't really care if certain builds are overpowered. I'm not going to play the same class every playthrough just because its OP.

[Dabrikishaw]

Avaflame wrote...

For the love of god, please. All I've ever wanted from SH in both games was Group Heal, but I just couldn't be bothered in DA2 since my mages are always focused on the offensive.

[Kidd]

Dhiro wrote...

In DA II they introduced some new tactics and conditions, and that is one of them :>

And here I thought I was a master tactic scripter. I've played around sooo much in that darn menu in both games, multiple playthroughs. Guess I'll have to look harder XD

[Sylvius the Mad]

Maria Caliban wrote...

In DA:O, I played a sword and board warrior. I was an effective tank, but my PC hardly used any abilities and the other characters were more fun to play.

In DA II, I decided to try a mage because it seemed to fit better with the story. As blood magic is EVIL, I went spirit mage. My character didn't feel like that good of a healer and when she did try to heal, I couldn't use any of the cool spells that let me blow people up. The other characters were more fun to play.

That's the strength of a party-based game.  You get to play all of the characters.

I really dislike abilities that restrict my character like Spirit Healing does in DA2, so I never use them.  In general, I found the non-speciality spells more useful and fun to play with that the specialisations.  So I mostly just didn't spend points on the specialties.

[Sir JK]

I kind of see the point of forcing the spirit healer to enter a mode in which they're blocked from damage-spells. It forces you to make a choice whether to stick the mage fully in that state, preventing them from damage, or if you have them enter it once a certain condition has been met. Thus making you at all times gauge whether you need the mage for damage, or for healing. It's actually a quite tactical choice. The idea is rather sound.

It worked less well in praxis though. Probably because knocking opponents out is far more valuable than outhealing them.

[Thibax]

No restriction, please!
I want to be free with all of you

[Maria Caliban]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

How about a 'reverse vengeance' mode? Rather than locking out the damaging spells, simply make them deal less damage while spirit healer mode is on?

That sounds fine.

[Maria Caliban]

I'm not sure how it hurts my knowledge cred.

I specifically mentioned Healing Aura, a power that exists only in DA II. I specifically said that in this mode, you couldn't cast offensive spells, something that is only true in DA II.

Given that there are only two Dragon Age games so far (not counting the social apps) asking me which game I'm speaking about seems odd.

[Orian Tabris]

nerdage wrote...

Please.

Nerevar-as wrote...

Not the best idea they had. With Anders I decided to make him full support and use Bethany/Merril as attack mages. But if you play as SH Hawke it´s a serious nerfing. It basically forces you to reserve SH for when you need the spells, or spec the main character as supporter.

I did pretty much the same thing, and while I could turtle most situations it was a pretty boring way to play.

If the healer can do damage too then you have to think about how you use them, there's some risk vs. reward because there's no guarantee they'll be ready when you need healing; if all they can do is heal then not only do you not really have to think about what they're doing but you're getting pretty much constant healing, so most of the time they'll just carry you through combat.

I agree with this. Instead of disabling damaging spells alltogether, Spirit Healers should be thinking about whether or not to use a healing spell. Rather than just deciding "OK, they need healing. I will focus only it, and ignore any chances to finish off a weakened enemy. Afterall, it's not my place to beat a warrior to a kill."

It's basically supporting those in the party, who would be stubborn enough to want to do all the killing. In dire situations, you need to let others help you, rather than trying to do it all yourself. Or conversely, in dire situations, you need to help those who are close to failing, rather than making them fend for themselves (which is not what dedicating yourself to healing others, is about).

[ohnotherancor]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

In DA II they introduced some new tactics and conditions, and that is one of them :>

And here I thought I was a master tactic scripter. I've played around sooo much in that darn menu in both games, multiple playthroughs. Guess I'll have to look harder XD

It's under Self > Party Health in DA2.

Also, I support the OP. I liked hoorayforicecream's suggestion to have offensive abilities available at the cost of damage.

Modifié par x0hn0th3r4nc0rx, 07 janvier 2013 - 09:54 .

[andar91]

I remember way back one of the developers stated that the philosophy behind the specializations was that they should change the way that you play, having a significant effect on gameplay rather than just a few extra abilities.

Problem is, I think Spirit Healer took a really blunt approach. It didn't change the way I played, it changed the abilities that I could take or emphasized in my build. Personally, I feel like the switch-on switch-off mechanic made sense for blood mages, but it felt forced for healing. After all, Force Mage didn't require it.

[Wulfram]

I wouldn't mind keeping the "no damage spells while using this power" if they removed the requirement to be in that mode to use the other spells in the tree.

That way it could be something to boost the dedicated healer, rather than an annoying encumbrance for people who only want a quick heal/revive.

[PsychoBlonde]

Maria Caliban wrote...

It sucks and isn't fun.

For those who are wondering what I mean, if you have the 'Healing Aura' mode active, you can't cast any offensive spells. Healing Aura must be active if you want to use any of the other Spirit Healer spells.

In theory this could be fun if they classify "offensive" spells just as ones that do damage, so you can still throw out various crowd control effects.  Also, if they had more and more useful crowd control effects.  But if your Spirit Healer can spam paralysis, stun, horror, slow, mind blast, etc. while healing, that's still a pretty powerful combo.

I'd also like to see mages get a tree that buffs their staff attacks, so in that case you could still be dealing damage with your staff and if mages could get things where their staff does extra damage to incapped targets, this could potentially be a really awesome tradeoff that would really help distinguish a Spirit Healer (who is all about throwing CC/heals and staff damage) from a Blood Mage who is all about MOAR BLASTS.

So it doesn't HAVE to be a bad thing that Spirit Healers can't cast offensive spells, but the way it was in DA2 was just irritating, especially since you couldn't use any of your abilities without turning the mode on.

[andar91]

I think part of the problem is that healing is as limited as it is in DA2. Granted, I think they were trying to emphasize that healing is not a necessity, and it does seem possible to get through quite a bit of the game's combat without healing much. However, I still think there should be more non-specialization options for healing. Even one more spell like Glyph of Recovery (small boost to health regeneration and mana/stamina regeneration per second in glyph) or a Regeneration spell coming back would have made me feel much better about the healing.

But yeah, I thinhk that restricting abilities like that is probably unnecessary. I'm not even sure it's necessary for Blood Mage, the more I think about it. You can sustain Blood Magic to pay for spells with health instead of mana and still use other blood magic or something. I dunno. Overall, I wish nothing was sustainable-dependent, but I recognize why blood magic makes sense to be sustained. Uh...I'm rambling, I know.

But bottom line-since healing magic, spirit healer or no, is still regular mana magic, I don't see why we should have to sustain an ability to use it. If you put the ability points into healing spells, that should signify the cost.

[Plaintiff]

Hanz54321 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Not sure if serious.

Edit: But I'm talking about DA II. There isn't a Healing Aura in DA:O.

There IS a Healing Aura in DA:O.  It's called "Cleansing Aura."



Edit:  Oh.  I see where you are going with this.  You are distinguishing between "Healing Aura" and "Cleansing Aura."

I don't think I would've picked that nit, but technically you're right.

Well they're two completely different abilities with completely different effects, and Maria is specifically complaining about one and not the other.

Seems to me that it's Bfler who needs to brush up on his DA knowledge. Anyone who played Spirit Healer in DA2 would know what Maria is talking about, just from the thread title.

[XX-Pyro]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

How about a 'reverse vengeance' mode? Rather than locking out the damaging spells, simply make them deal less damage while spirit healer mode is on?

Or could take longer to cast?

I would be interested in seeing this implemented across all Sustained abilities, actually. It's the magical version of multi-tasking. And we all know some things can take longer just by virtue of the fact that you are doing a multitude of other things.

Personally dislike both of these as it's a serious gimp.

The only way I'd actually support one of these (and even then only Jimmy's idea) would be if SH had a passive that passively regenerated party health during combat at a faster rate. Then longer cast times would be acceptable, but gimping a class for the sake of gimping it is a no no in my books. Anyways that's my two cents on the matter.

EDIT: Wulfam's idea (only read first page before responding originally shoot me) seems reasonable to me.

Modifié par XX-Pyro, 08 janvier 2013 - 12:46 .

[Celene II]

I completely agree with the OP.

Almost all the changes made in so called balance from DAO to DA2 were just downers. Why make the game harder, thats what difficulty levels are for, not changes in mechanics. DAO had the best mechanics for healing, potions, and specializations.

[TEWR]

I agree with this thread's request.

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I think this was meant to be a counter balance to the Blood Magic speciality, which doesn't let you cast healing spells when active.

Which when you think about it, makes no sense lore wise. A Blood mage can use the blood of people to... heal themselves. Why would a Mage be unable to cast Heal on themselves if they're using Blood Magic? No reason other then "We don't want you going 'Blood! Heal! Blood! Heal!' and whatnot".

You'd think that to really limit the gameplay enough without contradicting the lore, they'd have Heal be a bit nerfed in effectiveness if you're a BM* or that it can only be used on yourself once every... I dunno, 60 seconds -- if you have blood magic active.

Or both.

Or at least give the PC an ability that allows them to take the blood of certain enemies -- humans, elves, Dwarves, Qunari/Tal-Vashoth -- and heal themselves with it.