80 réponses à ce sujet

[SeismicGravy]

Blair Brown wrote...

Trying to stay away from the MP/SP as a feature debate and focus on just the achievements.  I'm really just trying to get an idea of what people like/don't like about how MP ones are obtained.  This has been a really informative discussion so far 

I want to understand peoples reasoning behind their opinions on a deeper level then, "i don't like it because i don't like it"  It helps us make better decisions.

Keep it up! 

This thread has also had me think to start up a general achivements thread when we get farther down the development line, not so much for a "what specific ones do you want" but, what TYPES do you like, what KINDS of achivements are fun/not fun. ..... already my brain is running a mile a minute. (another thread for another day)

I would say that as a mainly SP franchise, the majority of them should be SP specific.  That said, should MP make an apperance, then I would suggest maybe 250g/350g (assuming it's a 1000g game) would probably be a good number, with most of them obtainable via either SP or MP (You could have say, 2 or 3 achivements for completing the game with a friend or something)

[devSin]

OMTING52601 wrote...

Pre-EC, the only way to get the 'breath' as to play the MP. Post-EC that is no longer the case. The achievement for delivering most of the assets was attained at something like 3750 EMS - which WAS achievable out of the box IF the player used an ME1>ME2 imported Shepard and made all the 'right' decisions in the previous two games.

IIRC, the maximum number of assets was something like 7,550 (including From Ashes), so yes, it was technically possible, but it was not realistically achievable.

The only people who were getting that achievement were those who were playing multiplayer (or those who were cheating).

[legbamel]

I love the idea of achievements based around doing things like taking an all-mage or all-archer party through somewhere, or playing an entire chapter using only female companions. Silly things like getting drunk at the pub in some little hamlet or beating a boss while wearing a jester's hat that gives you negative stats would be fun, too.

[Beliar86]

Achievements aren't even something I pay attention to, with the exception of ME1 due to in game rewards.

On a general note about multiplayer, I do like it, but not from Bioware. Just not on the level and if it takes even a little budget or talent away from the excellent SP experience then it was a detriment to what I bought the game for.

[craigdolphin]

Not that i care much about achievements, but if people do care about them, and much of the achievement points are dedicated to mp, that makes it hard for those who cannot do mp due to factors outside their control: like not having access to broadband wherebthey live, for example.

I have satellite internet (sigh) so I am well aware that MP is simply not an option for a lot of people in north america.

[In Exile]

Blair Brown wrote...

I would like to thank everyone for the input on this, and please keep it coming, from what I keep hearing, the ME3 way of blending them together seems to be the most acceptable way to make most people happy.

I think it's the fairest way of doing it. Another nice thing about ME3 was that it made the achivements tie toghether in very neat ways. Like, get to lv. x in MP or lv. y in SP. Totally even feels like you're achieving the same thing.

[dragonflight288]

I personally am a fan of multiplayer. I have absolutely no problem with having a few multiplayer achievements.

Pre-ending-edit of ME3 was kind of a disappointment in that you needed multiplayer just to get the breath. I know it's not missing much, but just the sense Shepard somehow still living created a dramatic moment.

I'm all for multiplayer, but in a game that has been single-player, I feel that multiplayer should or must not be required to get the best ending or something similar. I have no problem if it contributes and makes it easier, but it would be nice if it isn't a requirement.

But if the multiplayer is good enough, I may forgive it. lol.

[Sanunes]

As far as specific things from achievements one thing I was just reminded of, since I am starting a new character in Mass Effect 1 I was reminded of the bonus to shields, health regeneration, experience and more.

[OMTING52601]

devSin wrote...

OMTING52601 wrote...

Pre-EC, the only way to get the 'breath' as to play the MP. Post-EC that is no longer the case. The achievement for delivering most of the assets was attained at something like 3750 EMS - which WAS achievable out of the box IF the player used an ME1>ME2 imported Shepard and made all the 'right' decisions in the previous two games.

IIRC, the maximum number of assets was something like 7,550 (including From Ashes), so yes, it was technically possible, but it was not realistically achievable.

The only people who were getting that achievement were those who were playing multiplayer (or those who were cheating).

The threshold was 3750, which like I said with the 'right' import choices was possible. I should know, I got it the first time through without touching MP. However, I didn't 'get' it until right at the end - the collector remnant addition- and I only JUST got it, by like 4 points or something ridiculously close like that. So yes, it was exceptionally difficult to achieve in the SP game - which it should not have been, I'm not disagreeing with you. But I didn't cheat to get it. 

Back OT, though, sorry Blair, you're questions seemed to ask about MP as a feature, and as such I replied with that understanding. Sorry if I took it off the side.

Like I said, I think if MP has to be a feature, then the achievements should be equally met. An if/or situation, so that those who want to play MP can have achievements for it but so can those who are only interested in SP. That way no one is being shown preference, and the achievements can come to the player however they choose to play the game. It seems like a balanced way to approach the topic, IMO.

[OMTING52601]

In Exile wrote...

Blair Brown wrote...

I would like to thank everyone for the input on this, and please keep it coming, from what I keep hearing, the ME3 way of blending them together seems to be the most acceptable way to make most people happy.

I think it's the fairest way of doing it. Another nice thing about ME3 was that it made the achivements tie toghether in very neat ways. Like, get to lv. x in MP or lv. y in SP. Totally even feels like you're achieving the same thing.

Agreed. It gave the feeling that neither way of 'playing' was being shown preference.

[karushna5]

I would argue that not everyone can use multiplayer, before I gave up on it, there were too many lags, it would kick me off, and it can be expensive to even get online with an Xbox, that making an achievement that requires more than just a game and either a PC or a console is rather unfair. I quit the multiplayer in ME because it was frustrating and seemed so repetitive, not just the issues with making it work. I am not a completionist so take my argument with a grain of salt. As long as it doesn't affect single player, I will be happy.

[devSin]

OMTING52601 wrote...

But I didn't cheat to get it.

That wasn't meant to apply to the legitimate edge-cases where you could squeak by with 7,500 assets, just the most probable ways of gaining this achievement (I didn't mean to imply you cheated).

And it's possible that the numbers were off, or there are more combinations of choices that let you get that amount (though "perfect" Paragon or Renegade playthroughs shouldn't suffice, so I would characterize the choices you needed to make as "particular" rather than "right")—they were really only compiled to try to prove that it was impossible to get 8,000 assets, and it did fluctuate by a hundred points or so over time (but still never anywhere near 8,000).

In any event, my only concern is that single-player achievements are reasonably achievable in single-player. If it's something you can almost never legitimately accomplish during the campaign but becomes trivially easy after 30 minutes of multiplayer, something is wrong. (Personally, I'm not bothered by multiplayer achievements that have no relevance to single-player, and vice versa—it's just when the two get mixed and end up only really being feasible for one of them that I think there's a problem: it should be an actual accomplishment regardless which direction you come from, and it should be equally possible from both.)

Modifié par devSin, 08 janvier 2013 - 06:42 .

[xsdob]

I'm rather new to the whole obsessed gamer lifestyle and mentality and all that, but people care about achievements? Why?

They're useless numerical trinkets that can't be spent, bartered, or given any value to possessing outside of getting a larger number just for the sake of having a larger number.

So, as a noob to this mindset and someone who is curious, what is it that even makes achievements seem like they are worth getting?

[Hey]

xsdob wrote...

I'm rather new to the whole obsessed gamer lifestyle and mentality and all that, but people care about achievements? Why?

They're useless numerical trinkets that can't be spent, bartered, or given any value to possessing outside of getting a larger number just for the sake of having a larger number.

So, as a noob to this mindset and someone who is curious, what is it that even makes achievements seem like they are worth getting?

It makes an cool sound when they pop and usually means some kind of success. 
It's pavlovian.

Also, i don't remember Bioware ever doing multiplayer only achievements..?  Maybe ME 3 had one that was MP only.  Still I agree with this.

[Gazardiel]

Blair Brown wrote...
Second point is MP achievements having an available SP way to get them. Which is what ME3 had, and people seemed to have liked. Is that preferable? Or are there still people who don't want MP achievements at all? (once again I don't understand the logic)

My question now then is, what is the problem with having some achievements for MP only? Citing "I don't play MP so it's unfair" does not seem like a good enough answer to me. Would not MP players find it unfair that someone could get the same achievement as them without having to play MP?

Does it really take away from your gaming experience that you cannot get that last 50 points of achievements because they are for MP only?

This all goes back to my point that when we are making up achievements we try to hit something for everyone, as there are many people who play our games for different reasons.

Would console specific ones work better, ie. for xbox have MP specific achievements that don't effect the overall achievement "total" due to it being a pay to play service?

I haven't played ME, so I didn't know that you could hybridize the MP achievements to be available to SP - I am perfectly happy with that, as I don't care to do MP normally.  That seems to be fair and inclusive to different types of players (which I appreciate Bioware for aiming for in various game design choices).

My feel on people who do MP is that they LIKE playing with friends, so I don't think there is a parallel between SPs forced to do MP and MPs resenting SPs "getting away with just being SP".  There are (at least) two very different gaming styles being brought together in these activities, and they come from different places.

I come from pre-achievement gaming days, so they're new to me and less of a concern, but I agree with Fast Jimmy on desiring more achievements that require something more than "playing the game and getting through plot points".  Other people have mentioned party composition - I think that would be a fun one, and I'm plannning my "Charlie's Angels" all-female playthrough since I've done my "DudeBro" run already.  I'm okay with a few random achievements - when I played WoW, I was amused to get an achievement for something odd, like falling off an elevator - it gives players little surprises (not there aren't some already).     

As long as the inclusion of MP achievements doesn't fundamentally change how I enjoy my SP game, I'm okay with them.

Modifié par Gazardiel, 08 janvier 2013 - 08:22 .

[Celene II]

Imagine i buy this game 4 years from its release daate

Are the MP servers even up anymore?
Even if they are, is anyone playing the game online anymore

Can anyone get the Bioshock 2 multiplayer achievement right now?

Do it this way - Create 2 ways to get each MP way, a MP one and a SP one.

Just like ME3 did.

Battle Scarred    25
Promote a multiplayer character to the Galaxy at War or import an ME3 character.

Now  you can get that achievement online or offline. Simple. Saves everyone alot of problems.

[Cartims]

Just curious, has anyone soloed platinum yet...wtf!

[nightscrawl]

Blair Brown wrote...

Does it really take away from your gaming experience that you cannot get that last 50 points of achievements because they are for MP only?

If people are really going to be that way about achievements and points then they need to just suck it up and play the MP. I say this as a person who has no interest in a DA MP, even if it is co-op or some other innocuous thing. Other people may have a grand time, it's just not for me.

I play World of Warcraft and enjoy collecting achievements in that game. There is one for doing the /love emote to various critters; I go out of my way to do things like that, or read a bunch of in-game books. There are also PvP achievements. I don't PvP in WoW and I've resigned myself that I will never fill out those points. PvP is there if I really want to do it some day.

Gazardiel wrote...

I come from pre-achievement gaming days, so they're new to me and less of a concern, but I agree with Fast Jimmy on desiring more achievements that require something more than "playing the game and getting through plot points".  Other people have mentioned party composition - I think that would be a fun one, and I'm plannning my "Charlie's Angels" all-female playthrough since I've done my "DudeBro" run already.  I'm okay with a few random achievements - when I played WoW, I was amused to get an achievement for something odd, like falling off an elevator - it gives players little surprises (not there aren't some already).     

As long as the inclusion of MP achievements doesn't fundamentally change how I enjoy my SP game, I'm okay with them.

Yep, I agree there. I would like there to be challenging achievements, similar to what WoW offers with their dungeon and raid achievements. Some are fun/silly, like every member of the raid having a dog pet out during this one fight, others are very challenging like avoiding specific damage attacks and generally doing things that make a fight harder, and still others are pretty simple like a speed kill.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 08 janvier 2013 - 03:40 .

[Fiddzz]

nightscrawl wrote...

Blair Brown wrote...

Does it really take away from your gaming experience that you cannot get that last 50 points of achievements because they are for MP only?

If people are really going to be that way about achievements and points then they need to just suck it up and play the MP. I say this as a person who has no interest in a DA MP, even if it is co-op or some other innocuous thing. Other people may have a grand time, it's just not for me.

I play World of Warcraft and enjoy collecting achievements in that game. There is one for doing the /love emote to various critters; I go out of my way to do things like that, or read a bunch of in-game books. There are also PvP achievements. I don't PvP in WoW and I've resigned myself that I will never fill out those points. PvP is there if I really want to do it some day.

Gazardiel wrote...

I come from pre-achievement gaming days, so they're new to me and less of a concern, but I agree with Fast Jimmy on desiring more achievements that require something more than "playing the game and getting through plot points".  Other people have mentioned party composition - I think that would be a fun one, and I'm plannning my "Charlie's Angels" all-female playthrough since I've done my "DudeBro" run already.  I'm okay with a few random achievements - when I played WoW, I was amused to get an achievement for something odd, like falling off an elevator - it gives players little surprises (not there aren't some already).     

As long as the inclusion of MP achievements doesn't fundamentally change how I enjoy my SP game, I'm okay with them.

Yep, I agree there. I would like there to be challenging achievements, similar to what WoW offers with their dungeon and raid achievements. Some are fun/silly, like every member of the raid having a dog pet out during this one fight, others are very challenging like avoiding specific damage attacks and generally doing things that make a fight harder, and still others are pretty simple like a speed kill.

I've always thought WoW has done an amazing job with their achievements.  The ideas, breadth, and implimentation is just spot on.

[devSin]

Blair Brown wrote...

I've always thought WoW has done an amazing job with their achievements.  The ideas, breadth, and implimentation is just spot on.

I think Diablo III achievements were also really well done.

[Joy Sauce]

Cartims wrote...

Just curious, has anyone soloed platinum yet...wtf!

Yes, the very first day it was introduced in fact.

[Joy Sauce]

By my count, for ME3 52 out of the 60 total achievements (which includes DLC achievements) require no multiplayer to achieve. I should think that if DA:I has a multiplayer, a similar balance would apply. Especially if they implement a challenge system like the new Retaliation challenges for ME3 multiplayer, then the two would be even further separated.

[Cartims]

Joy Sauce wrote...

Cartims wrote...

Just curious, has anyone soloed platinum yet...wtf!

Yes, the very first day it was introduced in fact.

You are my hero...I can't do it for shizzle.

[Ghost]

OMTING52601 wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Blair Brown wrote...

I would like to thank everyone for the input on this, and please keep it coming, from what I keep hearing, the ME3 way of blending them together seems to be the most acceptable way to make most people happy.

I think it's the fairest way of doing it. Another nice thing about ME3 was that it made the achivements tie toghether in very neat ways. Like, get to lv. x in MP or lv. y in SP. Totally even feels like you're achieving the same thing.

Agreed. It gave the feeling that neither way of 'playing' was being shown preference.

ME3 style achievements would be fantastic.