235 réponses à ce sujet

[lightswitch]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Yep, the only thing wrong with the warp throw combo is the insane dodge rate of projectile powers.  Do away with that and she is a BE machine from any distance on the map.  

*snip*

This won't fix the problem the OP was talking about because even if you could prime BEs at any range with Warp, the travel time of Warp and Throw combined with Warps cooldown is just too slow. Killing mooks by comboing those two powers is very inefficient, if you tried to use this strategy in a high-skill lobby the most the AA player will have accomplished is to debuff mooks for their teammates. Mooks don't need to be debuffed. That's why they're mooks.

"High skill" has nothing to do with it.  Bioware has overpowered shooty classes.  The AA faces nothing in that regard that all other biotic casters don't face.  The shooty classes kill stuff too quickly for targets to be primed and detonated because of their huge dps and because they use tech amno that LOLs at biotic primes.  It is quite easy for a shooty class or techie to completely shut down BEs, as I mentioned in my list of things that need to be addressed about biotics.

Every class is a 'shooty' class. ME3 isn't an RPG, it's a third person shooter with RPG elements.

If you feel that not firing weapons should be a legitimate option on Gold+, that's fine and all for you to feel that way, but it's a whole different discussion, deserves a different thread, and it's not really a discussion I'm interested in having. The way the game was designed, I can kill a mook faster as an Asari Adept by shooting it than by power comboing on it, at any range. And I'm okay with that.

[Daihannya]

lightswitch wrote...

Just cut the cooldown of Stasis in half. Or even maybe even drop it by three quarters. Then give it an evolution that boosts BE damage for the people who think that's a good idea against mooks, and then everyone can be happy.
The usefulness of Stasis is inversely proportionate to the skill level of the team. I've never played with HolyAvenger personally, but I know the company he keeps is at a very high skill level, and when you play with people like that crowd control is absolutely worthless. For people who don't consider a Gold game taking longer than 20 minutes to be subpar, Stasis might actually still be worthwhile.

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Yep, the only thing wrong with the warp throw combo is the insane dodge rate of projectile powers.  Do away with that and she is a BE machine from any distance on the map.  

*snip*

This won't fix the problem the OP was talking about because even if you could prime BEs at any range with Warp, the travel time of Warp and Throw combined with Warps cooldown is just too slow. Killing mooks by comboing those two powers is very inefficient, if you tried to use this strategy in a high-skill lobby the most the AA player will have accomplished is to debuff mooks for their teammates. Mooks don't need to be debuffed. That's why they're mooks.

HolyAvenger wrote...
I run an Acolyte/Hurricane combo on her

Seems like a weapon that could match the range of her powers might garner somewhat better results. Not disagreeing that she could use a buff though.

Actually, you know what would really fix her? Replace Stasis completely with Lift Grenades :wizard: be still my beating heart

Edit: or maybe replace Throw with Lift Grenades. No, really. You wouldn't even need to fix the cooldown on Stasis because the grenades would be unaffected. Dropping the bubble in a choke point and then hitting it with Lift Grenades once it has snagged a few targets might actually be worthwhile. Plus she'd still have two priming powers and two detonators. Could be very fun.

 

I say no to lift grenades, it will feel too much like the AV and we don't need an inbetween the drell adept, and bat adept. 

If all of holyevengers friends are like you, then yes stasis would be less useful.  But powers like pull and lash would also degraded in usefulness. I still pug quite a number of my games, so find utility in all of these powers.  
But even with strong treams it has utility and is not worthless.

[darkpassenger2342]

never liked this character much, but shes been more fun to play as a warp gunner lately.
the fury, valkyrie, huntress, and most of the other adepts completely outclass her.

you can't jsut rely on biotic explosions and shooting a carnifex and expect for this character to shine anymore.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 08 janvier 2013 - 06:26 .

[heybigmoney]

Stasis bubble isn't about cc or explosions. Its about having a constant 100% dmg bonus against trash mobs with weapons due to warp ammo. Warp doesn't have value to me against smaller enemies because their dodge rates are too high. So i'm left with with two powers that will really only be of major benefit against bosses.

I take stasis bubble so I can turn her into a weapons platform all the time against every enemy. BE spam with AA is purely supplemental.

[mybudgee]

Give her flare instead of stasis...?

[HolyAvenger]

scoopapa1 wrote...

Have you tried her with a harpoon gun?

http://narida.pytalh...niperRifleAmp5/

I feel like each of her powers has a definite place in the build, with Stasis for elite infantry, throw for lower enemies, and Warp + Throw for armor. Stasis is all about utility, Throw about detonations and ragdolling, and Warp about debuff and explosions, so she doesn't really mind going for gun damage instead of power damage. Stasis>Kishock is actually a pretty nice way to deal with phantoms even with the acolyte existing, as you are just offing them in one fell swoop and can do it from range, although if you get so overrun that the cooldown is an issue you might wish you had the acolyte still. Phasic rounds are my favorite to use on it, as you can turn many body shots into one shot kills in this way, and also deplete bosses' shields faster so you can use biotics on their armor. If you are on with your Kishocking then you will do tons of damage, and if you are in a slump you can just stasis things and still do pretty well.

For me, this build was the zen of Asari Adept, so hopefully you will find it similarly enlightening.

Interesting take on her, but yet another Stasis Sniper build. If I want to snipe, I pack my BW SI of Jav GI, and do it properly. PS- Phasic ammo is wasted on a Kishock as that ignores shieldgate.


Lightswitch- Honestly, I've played around with different weapon loadouts but at mid-range or closer there really is nothing that tops the Hurricane/Acolyte combo. Playing her at longer range means those issues you've identified regarding travel time of powers as well as dodging become more frustrating. Also I don't like playing my casters with heavy weapons because at that point I'd rather just play my soldier or infiltrator kits. I also agree with Daihannya that lift grenades would make her too similar to the AV. I like the Warp/Throw combo on her, and its still a good boss killer (AA is one of the best banshee killers in the business), so I'm definitely thinking more along the lines of a stasis or passive buff.

Modifié par HolyAvenger, 08 janvier 2013 - 09:04 .

[MrLyramion]

I like a high level Paladin on my Asaris. Warp Ammo 4, Pistol Amp 3. Lots of damage, accurate for semi sniping.

Try it out maybe you will like it.

[HolyAvenger]

MrLyramion wrote...

I like a high level Paladin on my Asaris. Warp Ammo 4, Pistol Amp 3. Lots of damage, accurate for semi sniping.

Try it out maybe you will like it.

I intend to when I switch to the bubble build, maybe tonight. I have a Paladin X gathering dust

[Hausner85]

narida.pytalhost.com/me3/classes/#Adept/Asari/OQKFF/Paladin8BA5BK5/Hurricane2AU5AX5/PistolRailAmp2//StrongholdPackage5/


I run her like this... Paladin is very effective vs dragons this way (especially if you warp them) if not still heavy dmg. No scope so better tactical awerness. I was using Acolyte + Hurrcicane and Carnifex (scope + truma) + Hurrcicane but i find out that is ineffective to switch for hurricane for attacking dragons. So SMG is just for bosses and as the Warp + Warp ammo neglects the enemy armor very effectively i prefer heat sink to HVB barrel. For me it work very nice  

Modifié par Hausner85, 08 janvier 2013 - 09:33 .

[lightswitch]

HolyAvenger wrote...

scoopapa1 wrote...

Have you tried her with a harpoon gun?

http://narida.pytalh...niperRifleAmp5/

I feel like each of her powers has a definite place in the build, with Stasis for elite infantry, throw for lower enemies, and Warp + Throw for armor. Stasis is all about utility, Throw about detonations and ragdolling, and Warp about debuff and explosions, so she doesn't really mind going for gun damage instead of power damage. Stasis>Kishock is actually a pretty nice way to deal with phantoms even with the acolyte existing, as you are just offing them in one fell swoop and can do it from range, although if you get so overrun that the cooldown is an issue you might wish you had the acolyte still. Phasic rounds are my favorite to use on it, as you can turn many body shots into one shot kills in this way, and also deplete bosses' shields faster so you can use biotics on their armor. If you are on with your Kishocking then you will do tons of damage, and if you are in a slump you can just stasis things and still do pretty well.

For me, this build was the zen of Asari Adept, so hopefully you will find it similarly enlightening.

Interesting take on her, but yet another Stasis Sniper build. If I want to snipe, I pack my BW SI of Jav GI, and do it properly. PS- Phasic ammo is wasted on a Kishock as that ignores shieldgate.


Lightswitch- Honestly, I've played around with different weapon loadouts but at mid-range or closer there really is nothing that tops the Hurricane/Acolyte combo. Playing her at longer range means those issues you've identified regarding travel time of powers as well as dodging become more frustrating. Also I don't like playing my casters with heavy weapons because at that point I'd rather just play my soldier or infiltrator kits. I also agree with Daihannya that lift grenades would make her too similar to the AV. I like the Warp/Throw combo on her, and its still a good boss killer (AA is one of the best banshee killers in the business), so I'm definitely thinking more along the lines of a stasis or passive buff.

I just played a few gold matches with the AA. The cooldown on Stasis isn't nearly as bad as I thought, if it were to be shortened at all it couldn't be by much. I was using a Harrier and still had a cooldown under five seconds.

As for buffing Stasis - I don't know. I found myself using it pretty much the same way I would use Reave on a Drell Adept and it's not bad in that role. None of her powers do much damage on their own, but two of them are very good debuffs, so as a weapons user she's not bad. Now I'm not entirely convinced she needs a buff at all.

Once I get a respec card I'm going to take the 50% damage increase for evolution 6 on Stasis and see how that feels. I would think that in combo with warp ammo it should make her the best Adept in the game at shooting mooks. She's already not bad as a boss killer, so...I mean she's not a Drell Adept, but not everyone can be, can they?

Modifié par lightswitch, 08 janvier 2013 - 09:57 .

[Badpanzer]

Any target that can be hit by stasis can be killed with a single shot to the head on gold...therefore dumping bubble to get 50% extra damage is a pretty bad choice.
Use the Talon and headshot.

Edit: Also stasis cooldown with talon is 3-4 seconds depending on build.

Modifié par Badpanzer, 08 janvier 2013 - 10:06 .

[Zorinho20_CRO]

I like my AA with the Indra.

[HolyAvenger]

lightswitch wrote...

I just played a few gold matches with the AA. The cooldown on Stasis isn't nearly as bad as I thought, if it were to be shortened at all it couldn't be by much. I was using a Harrier and still had a cooldown under five seconds.

As for buffing Stasis - I don't know. I found myself using it pretty much the same way I would use Reave on a Drell Adept and it's not bad in that role. None of her powers do much damage on their own, but two of them are very good debuffs, so as a weapons user she's not bad. Now I'm not entirely convinced she needs a buff at all.

Once I get a respec card I'm going to take the 50% damage increase for evolution 6 on Stasis and see how that feels. I would think that in combo with warp ammo it should make her the best Adept in the game at shooting mooks. She's already not bad as a boss killer, so...I mean she's not a Drell Adept, but not everyone can be, can they?

Hmm but Reave on a DA is a direct damage power and primer for grenades as well as a primer for Warp ammo. Stasis is only the latter (and some CC against Phantoms). And is mook shooting really such a big deal in terms of effectiveness? I can't think of a kit that isn't good at quick mook-slaying.

[lightswitch]

Badpanzer wrote...

Any target that can be hit by stasis can be killed with a single shot to the head on gold...therefore dumping bubble to get 50% extra damage is a pretty bad choice.
Use the Talon and headshot.

Edit: Also stasis cooldown with talon is 3-4 seconds depending on build.

No doubt an effective strategy.

In my limited experience, there are two playstyles in this game that can be equally effective. One is to charge spawns and get right in the enemies face; takes a lot of twitch skill and reflex to play effectively. The other is to use long range weaponry and spend less time running around and more time shooting; obviously takes good marksmanship.

Which style is advantaged largely depends on the map. On a map like Rio, a skilled sniper will outscore a spawn rusher almost every time because he can stay in the middle for most of the game and attack each spawn almost immediately, whereas on a map like Glacier, the spawn rushers will likely do better because the ranges are so short and the next spawn will never be more than a few seconds away.

I can see how for someone who spends all their time at close range the bubble would be the only way to go. But if you're trying to use a Harrier from upstairs on Dagger, then I'm guessing 50% extra damage will probably garner better results.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

It really underscores that biotics are underwhelming when folks are talking about harriers on an adept. 

[MrLyramion]

Personally I use the Mag upgrade + Barrel on the Paladin. 3 Shots sometimes aren't enough, 5 are nice. Warp + Warp Ammo take care of the Armor.

[Fortack]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

It really underscores that biotics are underwhelming when folks are talking about harriers on an adept. 

Ever heard someone talk about a Geth Infiltrator that owned everything using the Shuriken?

If you want to kill stuff fast you need good weapons to go along with powers regardless who or what you're playing. Even the designated biotic bombers - Drelldept and Fury - will suck against the big guys without one.

[LePetitRobot]

zorinho20 wrote...

I like my AA with the Indra.

Me too. Used her in some plat games recently (in a good team, with at least one other biotic) and had a lot of fun.
Indra + incendiary ammo.
Also, those darn phantoms can be a real pain if no-one has stasis.

[justinblac]

She's still an OK class, but if they would reduce the enemy dodge rate on warp & throw she would dominate.

[Fortack]

justinblac wrote...

She's still an OK class, but if they would reduce the enemy dodge rate on warp & throw she would dominate.

Enemies who can dodge are killed a lot quicker with weapons and enemies that have sufficient HP to take a hit or two cannot dodge. Hence why dodge has close to no impact on the AA's killing potential.

[LePetitRobot]

Fortack wrote...

justinblac wrote...

She's still an OK class, but if they would reduce the enemy dodge rate on warp & throw she would dominate.

Enemies who can dodge are killed a lot quicker with weapons and enemies that have sufficient HP to take a hit or two cannot dodge. Hence why dodge has close to no impact on the AA's killing potential.

When you put it like that, it kind of makes sense.

[TheThirdRace]

Moxy_Pirate wrote...

Saying stasis makes it easier to land a headshot is such an understatement. I melt heads with stasis. Its a ton of dps. You also for got the fact that it has a 33% chance to reset CDs. So you can melt heads and cause BEs. It also allows you to play very aggressive and engage groups.

Yes you can melt heads with Stasis, I can too. My point is that it doesn't matter. Any biotic explosion will kill regular mooks just as fast, if not even faster.

I don't know with who you're playing with, but with my friends on Platinum if I don't dispatch the enemy in less than 3 seconds, I don't kill anything except bosses. And Stasis don't work on bosses... It's even worst on lower difficulties where the health/armor/shield/barrier is lower meaning it takes even less time to kill an enemy.

Moxy_Pirate wrote...

I have a problem with a lot of your cons:

-Does less damage is again situational. When a shielded enemy walks right through a singularity, how much damage did it do? If you can consistently score a headshot on multiple units floating in singularity, big props! But I doubt that you can. Its plenty hard with just one. Infact, I doubt many people even try.

-BE explosions detonated by warp or throw depend on your evos in those powers
-Did you really just say enemies are hard to hit because they fall to the ground? haha. IF they survive to hit the ground I can literally kill them with throw, warp or a gun shot...
- If you take the the CD reset evo on Stasis I guarantee you will be using more biotic abilities on your AA than your HA.
- Based on my bonus power strategy... lol You do realize that it procs AFTER I use an ability. So yeah after use stasis, my biotics reset... how am I getting killed??????????????? Your argument is that some how getting 33% more chances to deal damage is somehow bad.
-Acolyte does not nullify anything. The acolyte takes time to use, must be aimed, and it can miss. You made an arguement regarding recharge times... Aside from reliability of use, ease of use from cover, and catching groups is a definite advantage. Also I dont have to bring an acolyte to use my asari adept (score!).

Damage does matter on Bronze, Silver and Gold. On those difficulties, any enemy that floats is a dead enemy without even firing at it or use another power. So you can shoot Acolyte and cast Singularity in about 0.5 seconds and your job is done. On Platinum, it's another story because enemies' health is greater, but you can still dispatch them easily with a Biotic Explosion in 2.5 seconds. But with Stasis, you need to use your gun, you have to spend some time on the target and speed is everything. Stasis is slow compared to the rest of the powers and this make it less than ideal. As for how much damage Singularity does when a shielded enemy walks thru it, it can be as high as 205/s, but it doesn't really matter because 1 Acolyte shot makes it irrelevant even on Platinum.

I don't know where you're going at with the "BE explosions" thing. Were you arguing about my "Cannot be boosted by passives"? Cause I meant damage from the power, not BEs. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.

Yes I did say enemies are harder to hit when they fall to the ground. When you use Stasis, you are expected to shoot at the enemy. Unless you play with a big gun, which defeats the purpose of using powers in the first place, you won't kill your target in 1 shot on Platinum, even on Gold sometimes. Meaning the target will fall to the ground making it harder to shoot at it and when it lay still on the ground, harder to land headshots. Singularity doesn't have this drawback because you don't need to shoot at the enemy. Either Singularity is strong enough to kill the enemy by itself or you just use a biotic explosion, thus removing the aiming and shooting which means it's easier.

For the CD evo, I understand it happens after using a power. On Platinum, everything is much faster than Gold and a 1.23 seconds longer cooldown on Stasis is enough time to get kill if you were counting on a BE to stay alive. I'm not a big gambler, so I prefer to have a set cooldown that I can trust than one that will sometimes gives me a benefit. Thus I'll always choose a lower cooldown instead of 30% chance of an even lower one.

The Acolyte does take time if you're using it wrong or miss. If you don't, the Acolyte nullifies all shields/barriers. Aiming is not hard with the gun once you get the hang of it and the exploding projectile makes it even easier. Kudos to you if you can make the AA work without it, but you're playing her with guns in mind, why don't you use the 5 other classes instead since they are much better with guns than Adepts are?

Moxy_Pirate wrote...

Actually, I just think you guys don't use stasis effectively. I manhandle platinum and gold with my Asari Vanguard and do GREAT with my Asari Adept. Stasis is AMAZING. If I could trade stasis with Singularity on either character, I wouldn't do it. You mention dragoons and bombers like they are hard. Since we are comparing abilities, they just breeze through singularity like its nothing. It does terrible dps to them, you are better off using a different biotic in either case, so why are you even bringing them up (besides these characters are easy to handle).

Stasis is amazing, it's just that it has some drawback that makes it less usefull than it should. Since Platinum has a lot of armored unit, the effectiveness is much lower than in Gold. The bigger cooldown also doesn't help and make is even less usefull than other crowd control powers like Singularity, Overload, Energy Drain, Pull, etc.

Moxy_Pirate wrote...

The cooldown on stasis is fine. It give the user A TON of control on top of procing CD resets. Also if you spec Stasis for duration, you are doing it wrong. You always take Damage when speccing it out. It allows you to blow everyhing up with out the enemy immediately falling over.

Yeah, I'm not the only one that thinks the "damage" evo is crappy. Even with both "damage" evo, you land 2 headshots with an Harrier X and the target survives and fall to the ground on Platinum, maybe also Gold. So how is it better? Enemies shouldn't fall to the ground at all as long as they are in Stasis. It's a major downside and that's why I use duration over damage, because at least I get something out of it.

Moxy_Pirate wrote...

Your manifest doesn't mean a whole lot man. You and your friend basically said you barely use it. You start a thread saying that it needs buffs for problems you can fix when you spec it. I mean you guys think its hard to shood enemies that are laying on the ground lolololz
"OH NOES HES LAYING DOWN, WHAT AM I TO DO?????":blink:

My manifest is only to show you I play Adepts often and thus I have a good hang of other Adepts. After all those games as an Adept I don't think the AA is bad, only that the cons of Stasis are big enough to warrant taking any other Adept over her.

Modifié par TheThirdRace, 08 janvier 2013 - 03:34 .

[Miniditka77]

LePetitRobo wrote...

Fortack wrote...

justinblac wrote...

She's still an OK class, but if they would reduce the enemy dodge rate on warp & throw she would dominate.

Enemies who can dodge are killed a lot quicker with weapons and enemies that have sufficient HP to take a hit or two cannot dodge. Hence why dodge has close to no impact on the AA's killing potential.

When you put it like that, it kind of makes sense.

Except it's wrong.  The point of the Asari Adept isn't to kill one Centurion with a Warp-Throw combo.  A single enemy can be taken out using weapons more quickly (and better by using Stasis, if you're an AA).  The point is to take out that Centurion along with the 4 other enemies standing around him with that Warp-Throw combo.  That's how you maximize the killing potential of the AA.  If the Centurion dodges your Warp, then that doesn't work.

[Beerfish]

HolyAvenger wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

I just played a few gold matches with the AA. The cooldown on Stasis isn't nearly as bad as I thought, if it were to be shortened at all it couldn't be by much. I was using a Harrier and still had a cooldown under five seconds.

As for buffing Stasis - I don't know. I found myself using it pretty much the same way I would use Reave on a Drell Adept and it's not bad in that role. None of her powers do much damage on their own, but two of them are very good debuffs, so as a weapons user she's not bad. Now I'm not entirely convinced she needs a buff at all.

Once I get a respec card I'm going to take the 50% damage increase for evolution 6 on Stasis and see how that feels. I would think that in combo with warp ammo it should make her the best Adept in the game at shooting mooks. She's already not bad as a boss killer, so...I mean she's not a Drell Adept, but not everyone can be, can they?

Hmm but Reave on a DA is a direct damage power and primer for grenades as well as a primer for Warp ammo. Stasis is only the latter (and some CC against Phantoms). And is mook shooting really such a big deal in terms of effectiveness? I can't think of a kit that isn't good at quick mook-slaying.

The big thing is the level one above the low level  mook.  Marauders, geth rocker troopers, higher level collectors and of course phamtoms are all controlled with Stasis bubble.  The diffenernce in trouble that phantoms have given me when I play a stasis user vs a none statis user is tremendous, and this is with decent competant groups.  It's just tough to control several phantoms at a time especially if there is other critters on the field.

[Zero132132]

I tried her for the first time on Platinum last night, and I kept up just fine. It was actually one of the smoother Collector runs I've been a part of on Platinum. I had thought that maybe the difference was because the OP seems to play Platinum more than Gold, but she remained effective.

I really do think the issue is that too many people try using a playstyle with her that just isn't that effective, and instead of thinking that they should rethink how they spec and play her, they just assume she's generally a bad character.

Most of the arguments about her being worse than other adepts seem to take a form analogous to the following: "Well, she's worse at being an Asari Justicar than the Asari Justicar, she's worse at being a Drell Adept than the Drell Adept, she's worse at being a Fury than the Fury, and she's DEFINITELY worse at being a Human Adept than the Human Adept. What could she POSSIBLY be good for!?"

Modifié par Zero132132, 08 janvier 2013 - 04:55 .