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Let's get it over with: please explain why geth biotics won't work


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#151
tictactucrac

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Saltyballz81 wrote...

Then YOU obviously are 12. Period.



Nope, 32. And the fact you didn't get my tongue in cheek jibe confirms my previous point.

On an unrelated point, my young (8) daughter wants to know will you trade some cards with her?


I could say i'm 32, 12, 92, i could say anything, the fact is, nobody cares, don't talk about your supposed life, you're just stupid to think that pokemon = child, period.

#152
Deucetipher

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Tictactucrac:
What we know:
1. Biotics are the creation of mass-effect fields made possible by eezo nodules in a nervous system, activated by using learned behaviors that fire nerves off in specific sequences, using the body's own electricity, amplified by a biotic amps.
2. Mass effect technology in machines is common. It is used for propulsion, pushing debris and accelerating slugs and kinetic barriers.

The question posed is then simple: Can a series of small mass-effect field generators theoretically emulate a series of eezo nodules in a nervous system? Alternatively, can the same be created structurally by wires and small balls of eezo laid into a structure.

We know one answer. Barrier can be emulated.
http://masseffect.wi...22Shields.22.29

We can hypothesize many more. Throw, for example. If a spaceship can push away debris, so should a chassis.
http://masseffect.wi...ss_Effect_Field

While there is no direct statement in the codex that says Geth "adepts" are possible, there is sufficient information to extrapolate that it is likely.

The term "biotic" may not be correct in a technical sense, but as a question of function, the difference is academic.

#153
SKhalazza

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Why not a tech adept (yes it's an engineer) ? We have a biotic infiltrator..........
Tech Vanguard can be done too.

#154
Boceto

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Enhanced wrote...

Geth Bombers aren't officially part of the lore yet, but anyone else ever wonder how they hover and move in the air? Hmm...


Imagine Bioware would now tell us they're able to hover in the air because they've got biotics, I'd love too see the faces of the people saying biotic geth would be breaking the lore :D

#155
Caligno

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A geth using biotics would literally be one of the dumbest things they can do to themselves. Since a geth relies entirely on electric currents to do every function within their platform, it's extremely dangerous to have a substance that reacts to those currents to do possibly unpredictable things.

What happens if the geth platform gets overloaded? Suddenly there's a lot of extra current going through the platform, which adds more of an impulse through the eezo nodules. What happens then? You could easily wipe out a geth platoon and lose a battle for your side within a few overloads.

Why take the risk? They obviously don't need any form of biotics, and the biotics they may or may not be able to get are too much of an unknown to even think of trying.

So basically, it doesn't matter whether they can or can't. They aren't going to. Period.

#156
tictactucrac

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SKhalazza wrote...

tictactucrac wrote...

"Biotic abilities are of varying rarity and status in other species:
Asari - All asari are naturally biotic to some degree, and though not all choose to develop their abilities, those who do pursue training usually display formidable ability. They do not require implants to use biotics effectively, nor do they need to undergo special training to acquire conscious neural control; their reproductive physiology grants them this ability from birth. Biotic ability is mandatory for asari who want to go into military service. The most powerful train as asari commandos.
Batarians - There are some known batarian biotics who are trained as shock troopers and sentinels.
Collectors - All Collectors have a latent biotic potential which is activated if the Collector General takes control of their body and mind, transforming them into powerful and dangerous opponents.
Drell - The drell assassin Thane Krios is a biotic. It is unknown how widespread drell biotics are.
Krogan - The few krogan biotics are extremely powerful and often train to become krogan battlemasters like Skarr or Wrex. Before the genophage, biotic krogan who enlisted in the military would rise quickly through the ranks; the other soldiers were in fear and awe of them, so their superiors recognized they would command great respect as officers and promoted them. The krogan developed a surgical procedure that was able to confer biotic ability, but the operation had a high mortality rate, so it was discontinued following the release of the genophage.
Protheans - Javik is a Prothean biotic. It is unknown how widespread Prothean biotics were before their extinction.
Quarians - According to Tali, quarian biotics are very rare. It is speculated that this is due to their life aboard the Migrant Fleet. Element zero is such a rare resource that it is probably too precious to be "spent" on encouraging biotic potential in quarians, and because the quarians live aboard ships, any engine accident severe enough to release dust-form element zero would also be fatal to the crew.
Rachni - Rachni Brood Warriors appear to have some biotic abilities.
Salarians - Salarian biotics are unusual and highly prized. The salarian military does not risk them in the front lines but instead uses them in intelligence services.
Turians - Turian biotics are also uncommon, and generally not much more powerful than a human L3. They are viewed with suspicion by the general turian infantry and tend to be relegated to special units called Cabals, which are employed for key missions.
To date, there has been no mention of the biotic abilities of the hanar, elcor, raloi, volus, vorcha, or yahg or what role (if any) biotics play in their respective societies."


Where is Geth ? Oh, nowhere.

End of a line.

Hum, where are volus ? :D



"To date, there has been no mention of the biotic abilities of the hanar, elcor, raloi, volus, vorcha, or yahg or what role (if any) biotics play in their respective societies"

They say there has been no mention of the biotic abilities of the volus. Then we could say "it's possible that volus can be biotics" (and we saw in ME2 that volus can)

But, they just say NOTHING about geth, because it's so obvious that they can't. Period.

Modifié par tictactucrac, 07 janvier 2013 - 05:13 .


#157
Boceto

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Pyroninja42 wrote...

Oh my god.

I've created a monster.


Nah, you only revealed it.

#158
zRz Tyr

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Pyroninja42 wrote...

Oh my god.

I've created a monster.


Yep. You are bad and you should feel bad.

Modifié par zRz Tyr, 07 janvier 2013 - 05:13 .


#159
Deucetipher

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In case my point wasn't clear, geth already use "biotics" in the form of kinetic barriers.
http://masseffect.wi...22Shields.22.29

Quote:
Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair.

#160
zRz Tyr

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Caligno wrote...

A geth using biotics would literally be one of the dumbest things they can do to themselves. Since a geth relies entirely on electric currents to do every function within their platform, it's extremely dangerous to have a substance that reacts to those currents to do possibly unpredictable things.

What happens if the geth platform gets overloaded? Suddenly there's a lot of extra current going through the platform, which adds more of an impulse through the eezo nodules. What happens then? You could easily wipe out a geth platoon and lose a battle for your side within a few overloads.

Why take the risk? They obviously don't need any form of biotics, and the biotics they may or may not be able to get are too much of an unknown to even think of trying.

So basically, it doesn't matter whether they can or can't. They aren't going to. Period.


A true Geth fan knows that Geth are too badass to use biotics. Biotics are for wimps. And btw, Geth Soldier with Flamer/Harrier > Geth with biotics/Anything with biotics.

Modifié par zRz Tyr, 07 janvier 2013 - 05:16 .


#161
Caligno

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Deucetipher wrote...

In case my point wasn't clear, geth already use "biotics" in the form of kinetic barriers.
http://masseffect.wi...22Shields.22.29

Quote:
Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair.


This doesn't prove anything in the slightest. It's like stating that space ships are biotic because they have kinetic barriers.

#162
Alijah Green

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tictactucrac wrote...

SKhalazza wrote...

tictactucrac wrote...

"Biotic abilities are of varying rarity and status in other species:
Asari - All asari are naturally biotic to some degree, and though not all choose to develop their abilities, those who do pursue training usually display formidable ability. They do not require implants to use biotics effectively, nor do they need to undergo special training to acquire conscious neural control; their reproductive physiology grants them this ability from birth. Biotic ability is mandatory for asari who want to go into military service. The most powerful train as asari commandos.
Batarians - There are some known batarian biotics who are trained as shock troopers and sentinels.
Collectors - All Collectors have a latent biotic potential which is activated if the Collector General takes control of their body and mind, transforming them into powerful and dangerous opponents.
Drell - The drell assassin Thane Krios is a biotic. It is unknown how widespread drell biotics are.
Krogan - The few krogan biotics are extremely powerful and often train to become krogan battlemasters like Skarr or Wrex. Before the genophage, biotic krogan who enlisted in the military would rise quickly through the ranks; the other soldiers were in fear and awe of them, so their superiors recognized they would command great respect as officers and promoted them. The krogan developed a surgical procedure that was able to confer biotic ability, but the operation had a high mortality rate, so it was discontinued following the release of the genophage.
Protheans - Javik is a Prothean biotic. It is unknown how widespread Prothean biotics were before their extinction.
Quarians - According to Tali, quarian biotics are very rare. It is speculated that this is due to their life aboard the Migrant Fleet. Element zero is such a rare resource that it is probably too precious to be "spent" on encouraging biotic potential in quarians, and because the quarians live aboard ships, any engine accident severe enough to release dust-form element zero would also be fatal to the crew.
Rachni - Rachni Brood Warriors appear to have some biotic abilities.
Salarians - Salarian biotics are unusual and highly prized. The salarian military does not risk them in the front lines but instead uses them in intelligence services.
Turians - Turian biotics are also uncommon, and generally not much more powerful than a human L3. They are viewed with suspicion by the general turian infantry and tend to be relegated to special units called Cabals, which are employed for key missions.
To date, there has been no mention of the biotic abilities of the hanar, elcor, raloi, volus, vorcha, or yahg or what role (if any) biotics play in their respective societies."


Where is Geth ? Oh, nowhere.

End of a line.

Hum, where are volus ? :D



"To date, there has been no mention of the biotic abilities of the hanar, elcor, raloi, volus, vorcha, or yahg or what role (if any) biotics play in their respective societies"

They say there has been no mention of the biotic abilities of the volus. Then we could say "it's possible that volus can be biotics" (and we saw in ME2 that volus can)

But, they just say NOTHING about geth, because it's so obvious that they can't. Period.


the brain is dead on this one

#163
Boceto

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tictactucrac wrote...

SKhalazza wrote...

Hum, where are volus ? :D



"To date, there has been no mention of the biotic abilities of the hanar, elcor, raloi, volus, vorcha, or yahg or what role (if any) biotics play in their respective societies"

They say there has been no mention of the biotic abilities of the volus. Then we could say "it's possible that volus can be biotics" (and we saw in ME2 that volus can)

But, they just say NOTHING about geth, because it's so obvious that they can't.


So "no reports about biotics" doesn't mean it's impossible but no mention means it is impossible? What the f...?
Also, everything would be mentioned if there was information about it. The biotic asaris are obvious as well and still they're mentioned.

#164
tictactucrac

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Boceto wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

Geth Bombers aren't officially part of the lore yet, but anyone else ever wonder how they hover and move in the air? Hmm...


Imagine Bioware would now tell us they're able to hover in the air because they've got biotics, I'd love too see the faces of the people saying biotic geth would be breaking the lore :D


Bioware broke its own lore several times to stop child complains ("Y U NO ADD BIOTIC GOD BIOWER?"), it wouldn't surprise me.

#165
Someone With Mass

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Enhanced wrote...

Geth Bombers aren't officially part of the lore yet, but anyone else ever wonder how they hover and move in the air? Hmm...


Eh. A wizard mass effect fields did it.

#166
zRz Tyr

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I'm Batman.

#167
nicethugbert

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Pyroninja42 wrote...

^Thread.

There's absolutely NOTHING suggestining that the Geth can't have biotic powers.


Um, the lack of fleshy bits would be the first clue against geth biotics.

#168
Blitzkrieg_33

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This thread is much better for reading than participating. Please continue.

Image IPB

#169
Someone With Mass

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Caligno wrote...

This doesn't prove anything in the slightest. It's like stating that space ships are biotic because they have kinetic barriers.


It proves that they're capable of forming kinetic barriers (which, by the way, are the same damn thing as biotic barriers) to a certain degree.

#170
Deucetipher

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Caligno wrote...

Deucetipher wrote...

In case my point wasn't clear, geth already use "biotics" in the form of kinetic barriers.
http://masseffect.wi...22Shields.22.29

Quote:
Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair.


This doesn't prove anything in the slightest. It's like stating that space ships are biotic because they have kinetic barriers.


That is the exact point I am trying to make.  "Biotics" are merely a way for organics to emulate existing mass effect field manipulation technology.

Furthermore, it seemingly disarms the tactical argument against geth "biotics" that you raised, as the geth clearly already run the risk of eezo overloads you raised earlier.

Modifié par Deucetipher, 07 janvier 2013 - 05:20 .


#171
nicethugbert

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Deucetipher wrote...

In case my point wasn't clear, geth already use "biotics" in the form of kinetic barriers.
http://masseffect.wi...22Shields.22.29

Quote:
Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair.


By that reasoning, anything using mass effect fields is biotic.  But, if I understand correctly, biotics requires fleshy bits.  Otherwise, it's just plain old tech.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 07 janvier 2013 - 05:20 .


#172
Caligno

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Someone With Mass wrote...

Caligno wrote...

This doesn't prove anything in the slightest. It's like stating that space ships are biotic because they have kinetic barriers.


It proves that they're capable of forming kinetic barriers (which, by the way, are the same damn thing as biotic barriers) to a certain degree.


http://masseffect.wi...ment#Body_Armor

Second paragraph. It proves nothing.

#173
Pyroninja42

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nicethugbert wrote...

Deucetipher wrote...

In case my point wasn't clear, geth already use "biotics" in the form of kinetic barriers.
http://masseffect.wi...22Shields.22.29

Quote:
Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair.


By that reasoning, anything using mass effect fields is biotic.  But, if I understand correctly, biotics requires fleshy bits.  Otherwise, it's just plain old tech.


Using mass effect fields to manipulate objects = biotics.

#174
Caligno

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Deucetipher wrote...

Caligno wrote...

Deucetipher wrote...

In case my point wasn't clear, geth already use "biotics" in the form of kinetic barriers.
http://masseffect.wi...22Shields.22.29

Quote:
Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair.


This doesn't prove anything in the slightest. It's like stating that space ships are biotic because they have kinetic barriers.


That is the exact point I am trying to make.  "Biotics" are merely a way for organics to emulate existing mass effect field manipulation technology.

Furthermore, it seemingly disarms the tactical argument against geth "biotics" that you raised, as the geth clearly already run the risk of eezo overloads you raised earlier.


And as I've just proved, the barriers aren't internal. It's not difficult to keep the outer hull and the inner systems separate if you know what you're doing, plus the mass effect field creating the barrier is both incredibly small and heavily specialized.

#175
Clayless

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Caligno wrote...

A geth using biotics would literally be one of the dumbest things they can do to themselves. Since a geth relies entirely on electric currents to do every function within their platform, it's extremely dangerous to have a substance that reacts to those currents to do possibly unpredictable things.

What happens if the geth platform gets overloaded? Suddenly there's a lot of extra current going through the platform, which adds more of an impulse through the eezo nodules. What happens then? You could easily wipe out a geth platoon and lose a battle for your side within a few overloads.

Why take the risk? They obviously don't need any form of biotics, and the biotics they may or may not be able to get are too much of an unknown to even think of trying.

So basically, it doesn't matter whether they can or can't. They aren't going to. Period.


Arguments about how dangerous they might be aren't arguments against them being possible, or in a way, included.

We know that the Geth take risks, look at the Prime for example, with those destroyed it would adversly affect all Geth surrounding them due to the massive amounts of processing lost, but the power they bring is seen as being worth the risk.

Geth Biotics could have massive risks, but the rewards would make up for it. Maybe not enough for them to be comon, but enough for them to be rare, like current biotics.

Modifié par Our_Last_Scene, 07 janvier 2013 - 05:23 .