293 réponses à ce sujet

[Clayless]

Caligno wrote...

...

Biotics and explosions aren't the same thing by a long shot. Explosions can be measured before they happen. Biotics aren't so easy to measure.

Source?

Even if they knew exactly what would happen at each amount of electrical current, they would have to know that at a significant amount of them, there would be negative consequences.

So they would have to be used in smaller quantities, which would make them rare, in other words?

[zRz Tyr]

SKhalazza wrote...

Does this unit have a soul ?

Shepard: My DICK has a soul *Punches off your...... face?*

[Saltyballz81]

tictactucrac asked his dad to type......

you're just stupid to think that pokemon = child, period.

I don't think it, i know it. And stop saying 'Period' at the end of your posts, it won't make you look more intellectual.

Or go back to the fr. threads, they love trolling in there, thats why you came here a month or so ago was it not?

Oh, i see....

[Deucetipher]

I do love how while a few of us are arguing absolutely inane minutiae (I'm a lawyer irl, so I do this pretty regularly anyway), others are just cracking wise. It's like two separate threads, and theirs is better. 

Modifié par Deucetipher, 07 janvier 2013 - 05:51 .

[Mahrac]

Deucetipher wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

Just because something uses eezo doesn't mean that it uses biotics.

Biotics are stated to require use of a nervous system, which geth don't have. While I have no doubt that the geth use Eezo in some way, I'd postulate that it's limited to the range of projectors, and has to be centered on themselves rather than something like slam which can be created in a certain range, dependent on the biotic's power, and is centered on whatever it's creator wishes.

Again, I am using the term "biotics" as shorthand for "mass-effect field generation and manipulation."  Noting says that a generator has to center the effect on the generator.  In fact, the opposite is true.
http://masseffect.wi...ss_Effect_Field

Mass effect field generation is pseudoscience, which means it follows its own rules.  There is no way for an adept to cause a slam to spontaneously arise around a target; it has to be projected from herself, which is why we have eezo nodules in a nervous system in the codex.  Whatever mechanic that an adept use to place a slam around a target is theoretically imitable by mass effect field manipulation technology.

Slam is one of the powers with no 'travel time' which is why I chose it for an example, though no powers had to travel in ME1.  They were created where the user wanted while things like shields have to stay within a certain range of the projector

Perhaps a better phrase would have been originating from, rather than centered on, but the point stands that projectors seem to have a far shorter range than something created by an organic.

That article also reignforces my point that geth can't use biotic powers when it states that biotics are 'biologically controled'

[DeathScepter]

Comes to A.I. and Sentient Organic, there is virtually no difference. So Geth Biotics are lore friendly.

[Enhanced]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

Geth Bombers aren't officially part of the lore yet, but anyone else ever wonder how they hover and move in the air? Hmm...

Eh. A wizard mass effect fields did it.

Yes and it seems like they can control it well.

Modifié par Enhanced, 07 janvier 2013 - 05:51 .

[Ramsutin]

I don't understand what is the problem:
Geth can implement parts they see fit for them, like organic tissue.
"Biotics" are created by putting electricity through eezo modules(?).

Brains=CPU(+GPU)
Nervous system=motherboard

Also there are green cows. And pigs. And hamsters. And mice. They also glow in the dark.
To those who say "why haven't we seen one in 3 games": we haven't seen female turians until now.

And lets not forget: BIOWARE MAKES THE LORE.

[Bhatair]

Technically if Bioware wants to swoop in and say: Geth can be biotics now, nobody can really argue otherwise.

I mean, it's not like they haven't retconned the reapers to hell and back already. Wasn't there a big deal about the ending of this game being an ass pull? I seem to remember that.

[Someone With Mass]

http://masseffect.wi...om/wiki/Biotics

The word "biotic" simply means "life", as in "pertaining to living organisms".

Philosophy lesson, BEGIN!

[LoonySpectre]

We have Cluster and Lift Grenades, which are basically biotic devices. We have Warp Ammo that somehow applies biotic effect to bullets. We have Banshees, who are basically biotic cyborgs. So from the extra-universe point of view, nothing prevents geth from doing biotics.
From the in-universe point of view, however, we see geth existing for three hundred years and never making any efforts to study biotics. They just didn't bother.

[Pyroninja42]

I've found that the people against geth biotics are arguing semantically whereas the people in support of it have come to the conclusion that geth manipulating mass effect fields is possible given what we know.

[Saltyballz81]

^ Biotic Trees?

[Deucetipher]

Mahrac wrote...

Slam is one of the powers with no 'travel time' which is why I chose it for an example, though no powers had to travel in ME1.  They were created where the user wanted while things like shields have to stay within a certain range of the projector

Perhaps a better phrase would have been originating from, rather than centered on, but the point stands that projectors seem to have a far shorter range than something created by an organic.

That article also reignforces my point that geth can't use biotic powers when it states that biotics are 'biologically controled'

I do think you raise an interesting point, but the question is how it can be generated by a biological adept.  However it is, it should be easily mimicked.  Since biotics are generated purely mechanically (sequentially fired nerves to trigger eezo nodules), any particular sequence of fired nerves triggering nodules is theoretically mechanically reproducible in a machine, even if it requires laying down an exact copy of a nervous system in wires with little balls of eezo to mimic the nodules.

We know that they have to project in some way from the biotic, even if we don't exactly know how.

Worst case scenario, there are a handfule of powers that geth "adepts" cannot use, such as reave or slam, as they have no travel time.

[Pyroninja42]

Saltyballz81 wrote...

^ Biotic Trees?

Epileptic trees are where people go absolutely batshot with their theories. This is simply putting 2 and 2 together.

[Clayless]

LoonySpectre wrote...

From the in-universe point of view, however, we see geth existing for three hundred years and never making any efforts to study biotics. They just didn't bother.

Technically they did: Geth fighters, Drones, Bombers and weapons.

[Deucetipher]

Pyroninja42 wrote...

I've found that the people against geth biotics are arguing semantically whereas the people in support of it have come to the conclusion that geth manipulating mass effect fields is possible given what we know.

That's not entirely fair.  Mahrac has raised a couple of legitmate points.

[Pyroninja42]

Deucetipher wrote...

Pyroninja42 wrote...

I've found that the people against geth biotics are arguing semantically whereas the people in support of it have come to the conclusion that geth manipulating mass effect fields is possible given what we know.

That's not entirely fair.  Mahrac has raised a couple of legitmate points.

A synthetic analog (or an entirely new system allowing manipulation) is within the Geth's grasp.

[Poison_Berrie]

Someone With Mass wrote...

According to the Reapers, it is.

Source, please? I don't remember that bit.

DiebytheSword wrote...

IMO, it's hair splitting. You can have a Geth manipulate dark energy through some sort of device or devices. You can't technically call it biotic, because BIO in the word suggest an organic organism. Being synthetic means it can't have exactly that, but it doesn't mean that the Geth are incapable of duplicating the mass effect with technology on a platform scale.

In that case, where's my Salarian engineer with Tech-Warp, Tech-Reave and Tech-Smash?

If it can be created in such a way, where are the combat suits that do everything Biotics do without all the hassle of how Biotics get to be in most cases outside of the Asari?

[Deucetipher]

Pyroninja42 wrote...

Deucetipher wrote...

Pyroninja42 wrote...

I've found that the people against geth biotics are arguing semantically whereas the people in support of it have come to the conclusion that geth manipulating mass effect fields is possible given what we know.

That's not entirely fair.  Mahrac has raised a couple of legitmate points.

A synthetic analog (or an entirely new system allowing manipulation) is within the Geth's grasp.

I didn't say I agreed with his argument, just that it was substantive, not semantic.  I made the same counterpoint.

[Constant Motion]

Pyroninja42 wrote...

I've found that the people against geth biotics are arguing semantically whereas the people in support of it have come to the conclusion that geth manipulating mass effect fields is possible given what we know.

Geth can manipulate mass effect fields. They're called tech powers, they're great.

I've found that the people in support of geth biotics are the people who haven't really considered what biotics are, and people against it are arguing semantically, because describing what counts as biotic is the exact nature of the argument.

Mass relays are synthetic and manipulate mass effect fields in a way that's similar to biotics, but that's a level of technology way beyond geth. Geth can't manipulate biotics because they're quarian robots, not intergalactic superbrains from beyond the known universe. A biotic geth would be a bit like a dinosaur with a laser on its head. It'd be like neolithic man making a functional blu-ray player out of twigs. Sure, it's theoretically possible, but in the context of the setting it's basically nonsense.

Geth adepts are beyond illogical. Why on earth do you even want a geth with biotics? It's just a picture. Got a great idea for a biotic geth? Great. Now give the powers to a class that isn't a geth. Everybody's happy.

Modifié par Constant Motion, 07 janvier 2013 - 06:11 .

[Deucetipher]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

In that case, where's my Salarian engineer with Tech-Warp, Tech-Reave and Tech-Smash?

If it can be created in such a way, where are the combat suits that do everything Biotics do without all the hassle of how Biotics get to be in most cases outside of the Asari?

I like that argument, it's good.

I can't actually think of an in-universe reason as to why tech-suits wouldn't work, except maybe expense and/or difficulty of implementation.

[Someone With Mass]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

According to the Reapers, it is.

Source, please? I don't remember that bit.

Well, they can give pretty much anyone biotic abilities through their technology.

I'd guess the reason why they only choose to give organics these abilities is because it's easier than to adapt synthetics to suit their needs. Which also would be a tad counterproductive for them, since they're going to destroy the synthetics in the end anyway.

[Mahrac]

Deucetipher wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

Slam is one of the powers with no 'travel time' which is why I chose it for an example, though no powers had to travel in ME1.  They were created where the user wanted while things like shields have to stay within a certain range of the projector

Perhaps a better phrase would have been originating from, rather than centered on, but the point stands that projectors seem to have a far shorter range than something created by an organic.

That article also reignforces my point that geth can't use biotic powers when it states that biotics are 'biologically controled'

I do think you raise an interesting point, but the question is how it can be generated by a biological adept.  However it is, it should be easily mimicked.  Since biotics are generated purely mechanically (sequentially fired nerves to trigger eezo nodules), any particular sequence of fired nerves triggering nodules is theoretically mechanically reproducible in a machine, even if it requires laying down an exact copy of a nervous system in wires with little balls of eezo to mimic the nodules.

We know that they have to project in some way from the biotic, even if we don't exactly know how.

Worst case scenario, there are a handfule of powers that geth "adepts" cannot use, such as reave or slam, as they have no travel time.

Which means that they wouldn't be biotics (by deffinition), unless they were new models with a fully functioning replication of a nervous system. That in and of itself would bring in new problems (laying down two sets of circuits possibly, repairs would be more complicated, dealing with overloads, ect).

The more I think on it, it seems possible to have geth biotics (with some limits) but it would be horrible inefficient so the geth would probably never make any.

Modifié par Mahrac, 07 janvier 2013 - 06:18 .

[Pyroninja42]

Constant Motion wrote...

Pyroninja42 wrote...

I've found that the people against geth biotics are arguing semantically whereas the people in support of it have come to the conclusion that geth manipulating mass effect fields is possible given what we know.

Geth can manipulate mass effect fields. They're called tech powers, they're great.

I've found that the people in support of geth biotics are the people who haven't really considered what biotics are, and people against it are arguing semantically, because describing what counts as biotic is the exact nature of the argument.

Mass relays are synthetic and manipulate mass effect fields in a way that's similar to biotics, but that's a level of technology way beyond geth. Geth can't manipulate biotics because they're quarian robots, not intergalactic superbrains from beyond the known universe. A biotic geth would be a bit like a dinosaur with a laser on its head. It'd be like neolithic man making a functional blu-ray player out of twigs. Sure, it's theoretically possible, but in the context of the setting it's basically nonsense.

Geth adepts are beyond illogical. Why on earth do you even want a geth with biotics? It's just a picture. Got a great idea for a biotic geth? Great. Now give the powers to a class that isn't a geth. Everybody's happy.

Uh, no, it wouldn't. The Geth are living technology. They can build a dyson sphere. They can build enormous dreadnoughts. If there's one thing the Geth can do, it's figure out how to build platforms capable of generating mass effect fields to manipulate objects. If the Alliance and other Council races know how biotics work, I can assure you that machines can figure it out quicker and easier.