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[WhiteKnyght]

It seems awfully convenient that he was there to recruit the City Elf at that point in time.

If you prod enough in the origin, you find out that Cyrion and Valendrian pushed the CE's wedding date up to prevent Duncan from recruiting him/her, the same way they did to keep him from recruiting Adaia.

But Duncan was there on that day, and conveniently enough, something happened that disrupted the wedding and put the City Elf in a precarious position where Duncan could conscript him/her and he/she would not be in a place to refuse.

Other small facts would include; how did Vaughan know there was going to be a wedding there? I doubt he'd bother to keep tabs on the Alienage.

And there's the fact that Duncan refused to assist except for lending weapons. It's true that Grey Wardens have to preserve their neutrality, but going to the law or simply vouching for the elves' story is hardly going to disturb that. Not to mention King Cailan is Duncan's biggest fan and would lynch Vaughan on his word alone, as evidenced by his plans for Arl Howe. Duncan didn't even conscript Soris even though he could just do it to get him free, then just let him go the moment they were clear of Denerim.

And as we know, Duncan's whole code as a warden is to get recruits by any means necessary, even if it means being opportunistic and/or resorting to blackmail.

So it might be possible that Duncan manipulated the whole situation to get what he wanted, which was his recruit.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 07 janvier 2013 - 05:38 .

[Addai]

That seems far-fetched. I think it was coincidence/ plot constraint that Duncan showed up when he did, and that Vaughn got horny on the day of the wedding. Probably all of it driven by the fact of the war. Vaughn's father being out of town probably convinced him he could get away with some hijinks, and Duncan was urgently looking for recruits, and the Highever elves probably came sooner than expected because of the unrest.

[WhiteKnyght]

Addai67 wrote...

That seems far-fetched. I think it was coincidence/ plot constraint that Duncan showed up when he did, and that Vaughn got horny on the day of the wedding. Probably all of it driven by the fact of the war. Vaughn's father being out of town probably convinced him he could get away with some hijinks, and Duncan was urgently looking for recruits, and the Highever elves probably came sooner than expected because of the unrest.

If you're playing a male City Elf, you can question people before leaving to go to Vaughan's estate. Cyrion and Valendrian purposely pushed up the wedding to prevent the CE from being recruited. They knew Duncan was coming.

Also Vaughan's always horny. In the male version, you can ask Valendrian about him, and Vaughan's raped and killed elves in the past.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 07 janvier 2013 - 06:08 .

[Corker]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

And as we know, Duncan's whole code as a warden is to get recruits by any means necessary, even if it means being opportunistic and/or resorting to blackmail.

And that's why he wouldn't need to use Vaughan.

"Happy wedding!  Did you enjoy your wedding night?  Good, good.  By the way, you're leaving with me in twenty minutes.  Right of Conscription, yeah.  Go kiss your spouse goodbye and let's go."

[thats1evildude]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

It seems awfully convenient that he was there to recruit the City Elf at that point in time.

You could make that argument for each of the six origins. It sure is awfully convenient that Duncan happened to be tracking darkspawn in the Brecilian Forest when the Dalish Warden encountered the Eluvian, isn't it? It sure is awfully convenient that Duncan happens to be at Bryce Cousland's estate when Howe attacks, isn't it?

That is, of course, the convenient twist of fate that seperates the hero from the other five origins. Just as it's "awfully convenient" for Luke Skywalker to encounter R2-D2 and C-3PO on Tatooine, or how it's "awfully convenient" for the One Ring to fall into the hands of a humble hobbit, arguably the only beings on Middle-Earth who can carry the ring for a signficant length of time without being corrupted.

I think Duncan's appearance in the Alienage is simply a lucky coincidence. Remember, Vaughan's father was called away because of the Blight. If he had been there, would his son have been so brazen about breaking into the Alienage and carrying off young elven women? For Duncan to have engineered the circumstances of the Warden's recruitment, he would have also been capable of kicking off the Blight, and that's a bit of a stretch.

Now, was Duncan truly incapable of non-interference when it comes to saving the PC's bride? I'm a bit more cynical on that front.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 07 janvier 2013 - 06:53 .

[sylvanaerie]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

It seems awfully convenient that he was there to recruit the City Elf at that point in time.

If you prod enough in the origin, you find out that Cyrion and Valendrian pushed the CE's wedding date up to prevent Duncan from recruiting him/her, the same way they did to keep him from recruiting Adaia.

But Duncan was there on that day, and conveniently enough, something happened that disrupted the wedding and put the City Elf in a precarious position where Duncan could conscript him/her and he/she would not be in a place to refuse.

Other small facts would include; how did Vaughan know there was going to be a wedding there? I doubt he'd bother to keep tabs on the Alienage.

And there's the fact that Duncan refused to assist except for lending weapons. It's true that Grey Wardens have to preserve their neutrality, but going to the law or simply vouching for the elves' story is hardly going to disturb that. Not to mention King Cailan is Duncan's biggest fan and would lynch Vaughan on his word alone, as evidenced by his plans for Arl Howe. Duncan didn't even conscript Soris even though he could just do it to get him free, then just let him go the moment they were clear of Denerim.

And as we know, Duncan's whole code as a warden is to get recruits by any means necessary, even if it means being opportunistic and/or resorting to blackmail.

So it might be possible that Duncan manipulated the whole situation to get what he wanted, which was his recruit.

I doubt Vaughan knew about the wedding, it just was an opportune time with dad off to battle the Blight to go steal some elven girls for 'fun'.  If you ask around as a male CE you hear rumors of Vaughan having done this before, and the girls didn't survive.  I'm of a mind his father cared little what he did as long as it didn't stain his family reputation, or that he didn't have to hear it.  Vaughan is a racist, misogynistic psychopath, his attitudes had to come from somewhere and I suspect the apple didn't fall far from the tree. 

Duncan was there to recruit the warden, and he didn't need any impetus such as a rapist running rampant in the alienage to give him a reason.

As for Soris, he lacked the qualities to be a Grey Warden.  Duncan will tell the CE this when he takes him/her as a recruit, that he would be doing Soris no kindness.  Duncan will tell the PC he's not recruiting out of 'kindness' over and over regardless of the origin.  The PC (be it the Noble's son who's fought off a murderous horde, or the elven mage who has just been condemned for helping a blood mage, or the bride who just had to fight her way out of a nobleman's castle to freedom) has all the qualities of leadership, skill at arms and strength of will to perhaps survive the joining and carry the day.

Fortunately for Ferelden, he was right.

[Addai]

The Grey Nayr wrote...
If you're playing a male City Elf, you can question people before leaving to go to Vaughan's estate. Cyrion and Valendrian purposely pushed up the wedding to prevent the CE from being recruited. They knew Duncan was coming.

LOL  That's funny.  "Duncan's coming, hide the children!"

He would have to be very sadistic to enlist Vaughn's help, though.  Duncan is kind of a ******, but not that much of one.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

It happens regardless of Duncan's presence, as do the events of the other Origins. Not to mention that Duncan seems inclined to help you flee town for the Dalish, if you make clear that that is your intention. (I asked once. He said something along the lines of "I can help you if that's what you want." Then he glances towards the gate, sees a small army of cops, and says "Or maybe I can't.")

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 07 janvier 2013 - 10:13 .

[Ferretinabun]

Doesn't Duncan have the Right of Conscription? Couldn't he just walk right up to the City Elf and take him/her if he wated?

[TEWR]

Addai67 wrote...

Duncan is kind of a ******

I never got that vibe from him at all.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Duncan is kind of a ******

I never got that vibe from him at all.

Douchecan STRIKES!

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 08 janvier 2013 - 03:18 .

[Addai]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Duncan is kind of a ******

I never got that vibe from him at all.

Duncan pressing his recruitment speech on Cousland while Bryce's guts are spilling out on the floor gives that vibe pretty strongly.

[ViciousCargo]

sylvanaerie wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

It seems awfully convenient that he was there to recruit the City Elf at that point in time.

If you prod enough in the origin, you find out that Cyrion and Valendrian pushed the CE's wedding date up to prevent Duncan from recruiting him/her, the same way they did to keep him from recruiting Adaia.

But Duncan was there on that day, and conveniently enough, something happened that disrupted the wedding and put the City Elf in a precarious position where Duncan could conscript him/her and he/she would not be in a place to refuse.

Other small facts would include; how did Vaughan know there was going to be a wedding there? I doubt he'd bother to keep tabs on the Alienage.

And there's the fact that Duncan refused to assist except for lending weapons. It's true that Grey Wardens have to preserve their neutrality, but going to the law or simply vouching for the elves' story is hardly going to disturb that. Not to mention King Cailan is Duncan's biggest fan and would lynch Vaughan on his word alone, as evidenced by his plans for Arl Howe. Duncan didn't even conscript Soris even though he could just do it to get him free, then just let him go the moment they were clear of Denerim.

And as we know, Duncan's whole code as a warden is to get recruits by any means necessary, even if it means being opportunistic and/or resorting to blackmail.

So it might be possible that Duncan manipulated the whole situation to get what he wanted, which was his recruit.

I doubt Vaughan knew about the wedding, it just was an opportune time with dad off to battle the Blight to go steal some elven girls for 'fun'.  If you ask around as a male CE you hear rumors of Vaughan having done this before, and the girls didn't survive.  I'm of a mind his father cared little what he did as long as it didn't stain his family reputation, or that he didn't have to hear it.  Vaughan is a racist, misogynistic psychopath, his attitudes had to come from somewhere and I suspect the apple didn't fall far from the tree. 

Duncan was there to recruit the warden, and he didn't need any impetus such as a rapist running rampant in the alienage to give him a reason.

As for Soris, he lacked the qualities to be a Grey Warden.  Duncan will tell the CE this when he takes him/her as a recruit, that he would be doing Soris no kindness.  Duncan will tell the PC he's not recruiting out of 'kindness' over and over regardless of the origin.  The PC (be it the Noble's son who's fought off a murderous horde, or the elven mage who has just been condemned for helping a blood mage, or the bride who just had to fight her way out of a nobleman's castle to freedom) has all the qualities of leadership, skill at arms and strength of will to perhaps survive the joining and carry the day.

Fortunately for Ferelden, he was right.

I agree totally with this.  The point of the beginning of each of the six origins is for you to become a Grey Warden.  For this to happen your character has to impress Duncan for him to want to recruit you.  If you can make an argument that Duncan was behind Vaughn's kidnapping with the sole intent of forcing you to go into action and prove yourself, then one could make the case he was behind the framing of Trian's murder, Arl Howe's infiltration into Highever, etc.  It's all designed and meant to be a coincidence not conspiracy theory.

[BlazingSpeed]

Addai67 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Duncan is kind of a ******

I never got that vibe from him at all.

Duncan pressing his recruitment speech on Cousland while Bryce's guts are spilling out on the floor gives that vibe pretty strongly.