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[AlexanderCousland]

Right, the circles are anulled, the Llomeryn Accords are broken, which essentially means that the Templars are independent from Chantry authority and the Mages are essentially free, making Fiona or Rhys excellent candidates to lead the Mages.

[Urzon]

I got a question. How long did Alistair know Duncan before he recuited him? I don't remember any conversations of him saying he knew Duncan from his childhood, though that could be me being forgetful.

All i remember from that conversation, is that Duncan turned up one day looking for recuits(?), and he found Alistair unhappy at the prospect of being a templar. So he recuited him, against the wishes of the Grand Cleric.

While I love the idea of Duncan being a big ol' softy, and he recuited Alistair just because he was an unhappy templar recuit; people seemed to have forgotten just how calculating and "For the Greater Good" Duncan was. It's been WoG, that is Duncan would have survived, he would have left Ferelden to its fate, death by Blight, to rally with the Orlaisian wardens.

The only reason he would have recuited Alistair is because it would have given the Grey Wardens a future advantage. Whether that would be possibly passing on his templar training or as political bargaining chip, I doubt it was "out of the kindness of his heart", since being a Grey Warden was viewed as a death sentence.

Modifié par Urzon, 09 janvier 2013 - 08:00 .

[Addai]

Urzon wrote...
The only reason he would have recuited Alistair is because it would have given the Grey Wardens a future advantage. Whether that would be possibly passing on his templar training or as political bargaining chip, I doubt it was "out of the kindness of his heart", since being a Grey Warden was viewed as a death sentence.

Alistair was capable so that is kind of moot.  Same for the Dalish or city elf PC- Duncan won't recruit merely out of mercy but if he sees an opportunity, he's not above using it to hook someone into the order.

I could imagine that it was a scenario Duncan and Maric had even discussed.  Maric believed that a Blight was coming to Ferelden, and being a Grey Warden would be one way that Alistair could be kept out of the succession which was something Maric wanted for him- assuming he's the baby in The Calling, which I believe he is.

[LobselVith8]

In Exile wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

If Alistair arguing for the Magi Boon, he's arguing for mages in Ferelden to be free of the Chantry and the templars so they can govern themselves.

He is, however, making them subject to the Ferelden crown (that's implied by the idea that he has the authority to declare them free in the first place). I'm not sure that "govern themselves" is distinct from how the Alienage can govern itself if you pick the CE boon (i.e., representation at the Landsmeet).

I don't think anyone was expecting the mages to be lawless with the Magi Boon, simply that the mages would govern themselves in the Circle, rather than the Chantry and its templars. That seems to be what King Alistair and Queen Anora say when the Hero of Ferelden asks for the Magi Boon (with the Dark Ritual), and in the US Ending (if the Hero of Ferelden sacrificed his life to defeat the Archdemon).

If Fiona shows up in Inquisition, perhaps the Magi Boon might be addressed. I'm curious if her (possible) son seeking to free mages in his nation will be used as an explanation for her actions in Asunder, if the Magi Boon was selected.

In Exile wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Hope Anora isn't ignored in Inquisition. She had some great ideas to innovate Ferelden, and she was as progressive as Alistair.

I didn't get the impression Anora was progressive. 

Both Alistair and Anora want to help the elves, but Alistair's action works (since he gives them representation in spite of the controversy it causes) while Anora's doesn't (she gives them more freedoms, but it leads to a riot); both want to help the mages (according to Wynne) and offer Wynne a seat at the royal court as an advisor. Anora even wants to build a university, which is quite progressive for a place like Ferelden.

[In Exile]

LobselVith8 wrote...

I don't think anyone was expecting the mages to be lawless with the Magi Boon, simply that the mages would govern themselves in the Circle, rather than the Chantry and its templars.

It's not about being lawless. It's about sovereignty. Redcliffe isn't sovereign, even if Eamon has much power over it as Arl. It would be the same case here. So it's not fair to say that Alistair is on the side of mage independence so much as some level of self-governance above what the Chantry currently grants, with a Mage Warden.

If Fiona shows up in Inquisition, perhaps the Magi Boon might be addressed. I'm curious if her (possible) son seeking to free mages in his nation will be used as an explanation for her actions in Asunder, if the Magi Boon was selected.

My bet is no, and my guess is that the motivation will be that independent of DA:O/DA2, and likely the historical oppression of the mages + her freedom in the GWs.

Both Alistair and Anora want to help the elves, but Alistair's action works (since he gives them representation in spite of the controversy it causes) while Anora's doesn't (she gives them more freedoms, but it leads to a riot); both want to help the mages (according to Wynne) and offer Wynne a seat at the royal court as an advisor. Anora even wants to build a university, which is quite progressive for a place like Ferelden.

The role of court mage is something that's existed previously in Ferelden - we see that with Shale's quest.

Anyway, I disagree with you on both points, but it's just a matter of subjective opinion. I don't find these actions to be indicative of progressiveness (on the part of Anora). She's a canny opportunist.

[Addai]

The mage boon never made much sense to me. The Circle doesn't operate outside Chantry laws, it enforces them. So putting the Circle in charge of the Circle is, er... a slightly more circular way of the Chantry controlling mages.

I would call Anora progressive. In fact I think the two of them are fairly compatible politically if Alistair is hardened, which is why they make a good ruling pair.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

@ Urzon

I think Alistair had known Duncan about six months or more before meeting The Warden at Ostagar. This is a guess since Alistair's back story says he has been a Warden for about six months longer than our wardens.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Addai67 wrote: Whaaat. Alistair doesn't want the throne, first of all. If the Warden puts him there, that is completely on her (and Eamon). Secondly if you go to Amaranthine it's not because the monarch ordered you there. They do give you a speech about it being your responsibility etc. but the Wardens aren't royal guard.

You must play pitiful Wardens if they blame Alistair for everything that happens to them ever.

Cailan was probably a womanizer, though we have this only by secondhand report.

Hmmm, let me see, if you go the route with Alistair and Anora marrying, then he doesn't exactly turn it down either, which means one of two things. He totally dumps you for Anora, or you become his mistress with a persaude check. He also doesn't turn it down if you accept Loghain into the Wardens, he demands the kingship. He didn't have a problem of using the warden to gain his throne. He also dumps you or tries too when you place him on the throne period.

The dialogue of Alistair where he acknowledges you as his wife or mistress or just friend when he tells you about your mission in Amaranthine when he arrives. So I do see it as being set aside. During DAO you are first acknowledged as Queen when he announces your engagement. Then your title is changed to princess or prince consort, why is this? Then you disappear for whatever reason, so you don't stay together except in each players game who wishes this happy ending.

No my wardens aren't pitiful as you say, since four of them are married to Anora or Alistair.

However, it did take me along time to realize that your marriage is just for political reasons. So the real question is....does Alistair really love his wife and queen or loves her better as his mistress, or prefers to be single all the way around to do what he wants to do. Doesn't matter which relationship you choose, you and him or Anora (male wardens) always separate for whatever reason.

I think it would be very interesting to see Fiona and Alistair meet in DA3 and if Alistair is her son for some type of acknowledgement be given or finding Duncan's journal or something. Or Maric's journal in the palace that gives a yay or nay on this issue of Alistair being her son or not. This is just one of the small details that need some type of acknowlegement or closure on the issue with a third game on the horizon. Will we get it......who knows?

[Fallstar]

It'd be great to meet Fiona. Having been a grey warden, the grand enchanter and now the leader of the mage freedom group, she's going to be an interesting character to say the least.

If we were playing as our Wardens it would have been interesting because of the Alistair angle too. But as a new protagonist with no connections to Alistair, that'll lose most/all impact.

Modifié par DuskWarden, 14 janvier 2013 - 12:43 .

[DreGregoire]

An appearance by Fiona would be awesome in DAIII! Now how about slapping a spoiler warning in the title for the Calling and Asunder for those who don't want to be spoiled?

[LobselVith8]

Addai67 wrote...

The mage boon never made much sense to me. The Circle doesn't operate outside Chantry laws, it enforces them. So putting the Circle in charge of the Circle is, er... a slightly more circular way of the Chantry controlling mages.

It's about giving the Circle of Ferelden it's independence from the Chantry and the templars; for the mages to govern themselves, rather than the templars.

Addai67 wrote...

I would call Anora progressive. In fact I think the two of them are fairly compatible politically if Alistair is hardened, which is why they make a good ruling pair.

I agree. The people of Ferelden respond very positively to the pairing.

[BioFan (Official)]

ghostbusters101 wrote...

Northern Sun wrote...

If she is Alistair's mother, I'd love to see them meet and have a conversation, especially if Alistair is king.

I would love it if she could free him from the taint.

oooo yes, that would be great. and maybe "his queen" too.... 

[leighzard]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

So the real question is....does Alistair really love his wife and queen or loves her better as his mistress, or prefers to be single all the way around to do what he wants to do. Doesn't matter which relationship you choose, you and him or Anora (male wardens) always separate for whatever reason.

Or the Warden and Alistair can both remain Grey Wardens. That's a real option for a Warden of any background if the marriage plotline isn't everything one could hope for in a romance.

DreGregoire wrote...

An appearance by Fiona would be awesome in DAIII! Now how about slapping a spoiler warning in the title for the Calling and Asunder for those who don't want to be spoiled?

Just out of curiosity, is there a statute of limitations for spoiler alerts? I'm not being a snot, I'm asking out of genuine curiosity regarding forum etiquette. I've definitely been guilty of blowing up The Calling in this thread and elsewhere, but it came out 3 and half years ago (and Assunder's been out over a year, but I still try not to go overboard). Is there a guideline of when it is or isn't polite to discuss plot events?

Ericander77 wrote...

ghostbusters101 wrote...

I would love it if she could free him from the taint.

oooo yes, that would be great. and maybe "his queen" too.... {smilie}

Don't get me wrong, that sounds awesome. Really. But it seems a little too sunshine and rainbows for the DA franchise. I'm going to keep imagining it happens though. However, I'd really really like to know what's up with her sudden reversal of fortune following her encounter with the Architect. It seems like it should be a pretty huge event in the DA world, certainly as important as anything that may or may not have been discovered regarding Tranquility.

[AlexanderCousland]

^ To that point.

You have to wonder if there is going to be any children born out of any possible pairing.

Alistair & Warden (M/F) Have a very low chance at pro-creation by virtue of the Taint.
Anora, if she's barren (rumor)...where does that leave Ferelden in terms of succession.

[HiroVoid]

FreshIstay wrote...

^ To that point.

You have to wonder if there is going to be any children born out of any possible pairing.

Alistair & Warden (M/F) Have a very low chance at pro-creation by virtue of the Taint.
Anora, if she's barren (rumor)...where does that leave Ferelden in terms of succession.

That is the point.

[AlexanderCousland]

HiroVoid wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

^ To that point.

You have to wonder if there is going to be any children born out of any possible pairing.

Alistair & Warden (M/F) Have a very low chance at pro-creation by virtue of the Taint.
Anora, if she's barren (rumor)...where does that leave Ferelden in terms of succession.

That is the point.

 huh?

[HiroVoid]

FreshIstay wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

^ To that point.

You have to wonder if there is going to be any children born out of any possible pairing.

Alistair & Warden (M/F) Have a very low chance at pro-creation by virtue of the Taint.
Anora, if she's barren (rumor)...where does that leave Ferelden in terms of succession.

That is the point.

 huh?

No matter the ruler, it's a position where the chances for a kid are practically zero.

[AlexanderCousland]

HiroVoid wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

^ To that point.

You have to wonder if there is going to be any children born out of any possible pairing.

Alistair & Warden (M/F) Have a very low chance at pro-creation by virtue of the Taint.
Anora, if she's barren (rumor)...where does that leave Ferelden in terms of succession.

That is the point.

 huh?

No matter the ruler, it's a position where the chances for a kid are practically zero.

We agree, i guess I was hoping somebpdy would chime in on a succession theory, or how IF  Fiona is not Alistair' s mother could her Son be a potential heir, or If our PC could be a potential Heir. 

[DreGregoire]

leborum wrote...

DreGregoire wrote...

Now how about slapping a spoiler warning in the title for the Calling and Asunder for those who don't want to be spoiled?

Just out of curiosity, is there a statute of limitations for spoiler alerts? I'm not being a snot, I'm asking out of genuine curiosity regarding forum etiquette. I've definitely been guilty of blowing up The Calling in this thread and elsewhere, but it came out 3 and half years ago (and Assunder's been out over a year, but I still try not to go overboard). Is there a guideline of when it is or isn't polite to discuss plot events?

It really doesn't matter how long ago something came out. I have a few friends who haven't even purchased or played all of the dlc's for the various games, they plan to but haven't gotten to it yet and also they have not had a chance to read the books yet either. If I start a thread that mentions any game play or novel information or has the chance to reveal things people might not know, I put up a spoiler alert. I know a person who just got the dragon age books for Christmas and has not had the opportunity to read them, so a thread that seems like it is just about the games, but in fact has specifics about books or dlc would be a bit upsetting to somebody who doesn't want to know how things end up. *shrugs*

It's just a helpful thing to add, but most peole don't care if they spoil things for others. I mean one of the first posts of this thread has a huge spoiler for Asunder and as soon as I saw it I felt really badly for anybody who hasn't read or finished Asunder.

Modifié par DreGregoire, 14 janvier 2013 - 08:16 .

[cowoline]

DreGregoire wrote...

An appearance by Fiona would be awesome in DAIII! Now how about slapping a spoiler warning in the title for the Calling and Asunder for those who don't want to be spoiled?

Spoiler warning added! thank you:) Usually I remember, don't know why it slipped my mind this time.

[cowoline]

FreshIstay wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

^ To that point.

You have to wonder if there is going to be any children born out of any possible pairing.

Alistair & Warden (M/F) Have a very low chance at pro-creation by virtue of the Taint.
Anora, if she's barren (rumor)...where does that leave Ferelden in terms of succession.

That is the point.

 huh?

No matter the ruler, it's a position where the chances for a kid are practically zero.

We agree, i guess I was hoping somebpdy would chime in on a succession theory, or how IF  Fiona is not Alistair' s mother could her Son be a potential heir, or If our PC could be a potential Heir. 

Well, unless Alistair is king and he did the ritual with Morrigan. Then we have an old God running around with the right to the throne. Besides, if we have learned anything by now it is that nothing is impossible in dragon age.

There is another thing I have been wondering about. In awakening you meet both Kristoff (sort of) and another warden (who I don't remember the name of) and there it seems like its not unlikely for wardens to have families. Even having children is mentioned at some point. It just seems odd they added the "unlikely to have children" rule, when it doesn't really matter in the end anyway. But perhaps that is just me.

[Addai]

cowoline wrote...
There is another thing I have been wondering about. In awakening you meet both Kristoff (sort of) and another warden (who I don't remember the name of) and there it seems like its not unlikely for wardens to have families. Even having children is mentioned at some point. It just seems odd they added the "unlikely to have children" rule, when it doesn't really matter in the end anyway. But perhaps that is just me.

Neither of those couples have children that they mention.  Alistair says the Wardens he knows who have children had them before they took the Joining.

[Cimeas]

Only person I really do not want to meet is Adrian, because seriously, I just hated her.

[Bananamonkey86]

Priisus wrote...

I'm waiting to see the resolution of the comics (Until We Sleep). I'm hoping for Marric and Fiona's reunion if possible, and how they will react towards the current conflict in Thedas.

I enjoy the Asunders characters from both sides of the conflicts, and would like to meet the survivors in DA3.

And somehow have a feeling that Fiona's son's identity will still be kept a secret in DA3, the devs love to tease

well it seems they have still kept it secret in the world of thedas book

[Heimdall]

Cimeas wrote...

Only person I really do not want to meet is Adrian, because seriously, I just hated her.

Oh god, you have no idea how badly I wanted someone to kill her.