523 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

dragonflight288 wrote...
And the rest of Thedas because the mages left the Chantry all together AFTER Lord High Seeker Lambert decided to attack them while they were at a perfectly lawful meeting.

Lord Seeker Lamber did NOT decide to atack the mages while they were having a lawful meeting. He entered the conlcave to demand the surrender of Rhys after finding extremely compelling evidence that he was behind the murders of other mages in the White Spire. The mages refused to let him perform his job and that was when he attacked.

Now, with sentiments at such a breaking point, personally, I would have advised to let cooler heads prevail. But in that situation, Lambert was merely acting in fufillment of his duties of protecting the mages and only after finding strong evidence that painted Rhys as the guilty one. The meages were the one who automatically assumed that, just because he was loyal to the Chantry, Lambert must have planted the evidence there while in fact, it was another mage who had done so exactly to create that situation.

And, has it turned out, there WAS a demon controlling Rhys to commit those murders without him even realizing it.

Modifié par MisterJB, 11 janvier 2013 - 04:59 .

[MisterJB]

dgcatanisiri wrote...

The biggest problem of the entire Circle system is that it was written up and instituted while the wounds of the Tevinter Imperium were still raw. It's a reactionary system meant to punish magic users dressed up as 'the word of the Maker.' I have NEVER argued against a Circle system, because, yes, magic can be dangerous, and so those with it should be trained to be able to control their abilities. I just argue against the one that's been put into place in Thedas that treats mages like criminals for no reason than being born with magic.

I disagree. I don't see anything in the current Chantry laws that function only as a reaction to the Tevinter Imperium as opposes to timeless precautions that any intelligent society could, would and should apply should they have mages amongst them.

Oh, and here are the exact words of the Templar codex page: "In reality, the Chantry's militant arm looks first for skilled warriors with unshakable faith in the Maker, with a flawless moral center as a secondary concern." 'Unshakable faith." "Moral center as a secondary concern." These are a troubling way to run a system at best - it's how men like Ser Alrik don't get weeded out before being given a position of power. It's what allows the justification of 'the ends justify the means.' That's the same thinking that led Anders to blow up the Chantry.

We do the same. Our soldiers are not chosen because they are the great thinkers of the world. They are selected from those who appear willing to kill on command.
As much as it is needed, controlling mages can be a rather unpleasant mission. Obviously, the Chantry doesn't want templars who are constantly questioning the morality of their orders rather than follow them. That's how mages like Grace kill templars like Thrask.
Which doesn't mean that "Do you believe mages are cursed and should pay for crimes commited by Tevinter? Yes/No" is an obligatory question in templar training.

(oh, and don't even get me started on the elves),

What about the elves?

[Kashola]

And these people on the forums are why i enjoy blasting down templars left and right. You push people to the brink, strip them away of their rights, and you call foul when they push back. The Chantry and their false god/prophet has created more blood mages than have prevented.

[MisterJB]

Right, shall we compare the blood mage ratio in Tevinter compared to that in Andrastean nations?
Under Andraste: A few but they are rare both due to teachings and fear of punishment.
Tevinter: Every single mage who doesn't want to be a slave.

Modifié par MisterJB, 11 janvier 2013 - 12:49 .

[Kashola]

Can you cite, specifically, that every single mage must be a blood-mage to not be a slave. According to Fenris, from what i recall, to be among the most powerful you would work with blood magic, but being a slave?

To add: Even if this were to be the case with the Tevinter, blame the nation, not the magic. Playing a female city elf, or any elf, can tell you the continued bull**** humanity maintains. At the end of the day, it's not magic that is the problem, its men. As for "but they have more power", then how did a barbarian horde(led by Andraste) come to defeat such powerful blood magic? Here is a hint: They aren't as big of a danger as the Chantry would make you think.

Modifié par Kashola, 11 janvier 2013 - 01:16 .

[Kashola]

Sorry for the continued wall of text, but also please answer me this: If every single mage in Tevinter were a blood mage, wouldn't they all turn into abominations? So far in DA games it has been made clear all blood mages turn corrupt, that none can forever fend off possession. So how can their civilization have endured, even after their defeat and losing much of their lands?



EDIT: Bedtime for me, I will check back later.

Modifié par Kashola, 11 janvier 2013 - 01:26 .

[MisterJB]

Kashola wrote...

Can you cite, specifically, that every single mage must be a blood-mage to not be a slave. According to Fenris, from what i recall, to be among the most powerful you would work with blood magic, but being a slave?

Anders: So, there must be mages in Tevinter that don't use blood magic.
Fenris: Of course. There are slaves. The magisters do not hesitate to collar their own kind.

He might be exageratting...or he might not. We know all magisters and aspiring must use blood magic to compete. They might see these young mages as possible competion and attempt to rid themselves of them by enslaving them.
Or, according to Genitivi's writing, the towers of the magisters stand above squalor filled streets. It might be the only way to have a house where rain doesn't pour in is to become a magister.

To add: Even if this were to be the case with the Tevinter, blame the nation, not the magic. Playing a female city elf, or any elf, can tell you the continued bull**** humanity maintains. At the end of the day, it's not magic that is the problem, its men. As for "but they have more power", then how did a barbarian horde(led by Andraste) come to defeat such powerful blood magic? Here is a hint: They aren't as big of a danger as the Chantry would make you think.

First of all, it's true that mundane nobles can and have abused their power. However, it's bad enough that there are nobles who through money and social position; things that have no true value beyond what we give to them; can abuse others.
We don't need nobles who can control people with their minds or shoot fire fire from their fingertips.

Second, the First Blight ravaged for 900 years which greatly weakened the Tevinter Imperium for Andraste's hord. And even then, she only managed to free the South.

Kashola wrote...

Sorry for the continued wall of text, but
also please answer me this: If every single mage in Tevinter were a
blood mage, wouldn't they all turn into abominations? So far in DA
games it has been made clear all blood mages turn corrupt, that none can
forever fend off possession. So how can their civilization have
endured, even after their defeat and losing much of their lands?

Simple, blood magic allows mages to bind demons to their will. Abominations do occur and they're deal with when it happens.
Besides, there might even be a few Desire or Pride Abominations running the show on Tevinter without anyone knowing.

[Kashola]

So, to avoid a possible scenario where people are abused and put into slavery... you put people into slavery and abuse them... Because that is what circles are. Some of them may be gilded cages, but cages still.

And if there are mages as slaves in Tevinter, and only the 1% so to speak ruled with blood magic, that still shows most mages don't desire to use it. Turning into a ham wrapped meat monster doesn't appeal to most.

Again, using Tevinter as the standard of why what is done to mages is appropriate is fear-mongering at its most effective. Use the damn circle like a mages guild in any other fantasy - to help regulate and protect. Corruption can be found anywhere, it can't be stopped permanently, but you can take measures to fight against it.

At the end of the day it shows how humans, in a fantasy setting and in real life, are weak people quick to trust the word of a powerful organization (The Chantry) out of fear of something they don't understand, and only perpetuate conflict without understanding.

If another Tevinter were to occur, it would be mundanes themselves that caused it, not mages. What Anders did was inevitable - if he didn't do it, someone else would have eventually.

Modifié par Kashola, 11 janvier 2013 - 10:32 .

[MisterJB]

Kashola wrote...

So, to avoid a possible scenario where people are abused and put into slavery... you put people into slavery and abuse them... Because that is what circles are. Some of them may be gilded cages, but cages still.

In order for a society to function, rules and restrictions are applied to its citizens. These rules restrict our freedoms but they exist because we all have the possiblity to be dangerous to others. Logically, those amongst us who have a greater potential for destruction must have their freedoms even more restricted to account for these powers.
Mages have freedoms, rights and live in conditions millions in our world would kill for. They're not slaves, not even close.

And if there are mages as slaves in Tevinter, and only the 1% so to speak ruled with blood magic, that still shows most mages don't desire to use it. Turning into a ham wrapped meat monster doesn't appeal to most.

Blood magic doesn't inevitably equal demonic possession. If the choice is either slavery or blood magic, I suspect an enormous number of mages will pick the second one. Especially in a culture that praises the virtues of magic above everything.

Again, using Tevinter as the standard of why what is done to mages is appropriate is fear-mongering at its most effective. Use the damn circle like a mages guild in any other fantasy - to help regulate and protect. Corruption can be found anywhere, it can't be stopped permanently, but you can take measures to fight against it.

Fear is what keeps people alive. The Circle is an appropriate measure to fight against magic.

At the end of the day it shows how humans, in a fantasy setting and in real life, are weak people quick to trust the word of a powerful organization (The Chantry) out of fear of something they don't understand, and only perpetuate conflict without understanding.

The erudites of Thedas understand magic just fine. They simply find it paint-solingly terrifying and with good reason.

If another Tevinter were to occur, it would be mundanes themselves that caused it, not mages. What Anders did was inevitable - if he didn't do it, someone else would have eventually.

People being angry is not a valid evidence of a flawed system because people can get angry over the stupidest things.
There are many mages who like it just fine inside the Circle.

[Wulfram]

Elthina's fault depends on how much control she was actually capable of wielding over the Templars.

If she could have said "Meredith, you're relieved. Knight Captain Cullen, take over" and been obeyed, then she really should have, and bears quite a lot of responsibility.

[gds76]

There is no "one" person to blame. Elthina and Meridith and Hawke and Orsino and Anders and Bartrand and who knows who else, they can all shake hands and go for a drink togehter. Usually that is a good thing, but DA2 overdid it. It was like they tried to one-up each other.

Hawke: "Oh, shiny Idol"
Bartrand: "I'm going to lock my brother and Hawke in the deep roads and keep this strange idol close to me all the time only to sell it to a random person."
Meridith: "Actually I made that Idol into a magical sword."
Orsino: "lol Harvester"

Modifié par gds76, 11 janvier 2013 - 11:32 .

[calvinien]

It seemed to me that da2 was one giant commentary on religion...and a quite scathing indictment of organized religion in particular. It cannot be a coincidence that there is flat out no way to get a happy ending for the most devout characters.

You have the arishok and meredith as the true belivers who both comment that they are essentially trapped by their religious duty to a course they cannot change. And you have Sebastian and Elthina as the more moderate, less militant belivers.

Over the course of the game you kill the fanatics and the moderates are proven to be entirely ineffectual.

Elthina has this line where she says "the chnatry is not a domineering father with the whip in hand, she is the gentle mother who lets her children make their own mistakes".

I've always wanted to ask her: How many of your children have to die before you step in?

Elthina held meredith's leash and ultimately chose to do nothing. She may have been a good person, but as anders points out, she did NOTHING. For years the city got worse and worse and despite being able to just up and say ''meredith, stop being a **** and let peopel have a viscount. Also, i've heard rumours of you tranquilizing mages who passed their harrowing. Don't make me send you to the divine."

The sin of inaction may not be as direct as any others, but she is responsible for allowing things to get that bad. She took a more active role in sebastian's personal drama than she did the entire city.


Then again I'm of the opinion that the entire chantry is a deeply corrupt institution. If mages were really such a big issue outside the circle, the dalish would have been wiped out by their own keepers by now and tevinter would be a smoking hole in the ground. They certainly would not be able to maintain a decades long war with the qunari at the same time.

If mages were really such a widespread threat, then why not teach templar talents freely, so that every guard in every podunk town knows to holy smite any attacking evil mage or demon they come across? The chantry seems to put a much higher priority on its own image and maintaining its lyrium addicted slave army than actually helping people.

[Gamer Ftw]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

No.
Could Elthina have done more than she did? Probably.
Did she have to? No.
Was she trying to maintain peace? Yes.
Was she trying o keep compromise on the table? Yes. Even Anders admits that. Which is why he targeted her.

The mages were nowhere near as bad off as many claim.

Did you miss the templar rape parts?

[Siharaa]

"There are many mages who like it just fine inside the Circle."

Maybe. Presumably the ones who aren't being raped, made tranquil and locked in their cells.

[MisterJB]

Conditions in the Circle of Kirkwall were unnusually harsh, I'll grant you that. But there was also an unusually number of blood mages threatening the people of the City. Some undoubtedly created by Meredith but also many who were not.
Therefore, I hesitate when deeming her measures "unnecessary".
Some things were inexcusable, of course, such as Alrik breaking every law of the Chantry but, according to the girl Hawke saves should she be sent back to the Circle, the other templars are glad Alrik is gone and just want things to return to normal. Bethany claims as much.

[dragonflight288]

MisterJB wrote...

Conditions in the Circle of Kirkwall were unnusually harsh, I'll grant you that. But there was also an unusually number of blood mages threatening the people of the City. Some undoubtedly created by Meredith but also many who were not.
Therefore, I hesitate when deeming her measures "unnecessary".
Some things were inexcusable, of course, such as Alrik breaking every law of the Chantry but, according to the girl Hawke saves should she be sent back to the Circle, the other templars are glad Alrik is gone and just want things to return to normal. Bethany claims as much.

Let's quote Varic at the beginning of Act 3.

Meredith ruled with an iron fist. The harder she squeezed, the more the mages resisted. The more they resisted, the harder she squeezed.

It was a horrible situation altogether. There were an unusually high amount of blood mages, but from what I can gather, most of them became blood mages because they were driven to that point by the templars.

Let's look at how many blood mages Hawke meets throughout his seven years in Kirkwall. If I forget any, feel free to remind me. And this is only confirmed blood mages, not rogue mages. There is a difference.

1. The Lily serial murderer-killer, driven mad by grief long before Hawke even showed up, and there is evidence he wasn't even from Kirkwall. (Hawke doesn't actually meet him at this point, but there is evidence he's lurking around)
2. Tehrone (I know I spelled it wrong.)-A mage spremist who summoned demons and put them into templar recruits, in an effort to drive the templars crazy with paranoia....and it worked. Also mad.
3. Denarius-pseudo revolutionist who can't tell an escaped slave, a dwarf, and a Dalish elf from a templar.
4. That one prostitute whose name I can't remember at the Blooming Rose.

That's act 1. And that's less blood mages than the warden meets in one year during the Blight, especially if we do the Mages Collective quests.

Act 2.

Gascard DuPuis-former pupil of Quintin. We are fed this line on him wanting to avenge his sister, and I do believe that's true to a point, but he also wanted the power and research that Quentin had. Standard noble.

Quintin- the Lily serial murderer. Driven mad by grief before the game began and sought to revive his wife through necromancy. Had outside help gathering research materials. Later confirmed to be Orsino if we side with the templars in the final act.

Hadrianna-magister, and apprentice to Denarius, who is also a Magister. Tevinter is full of blood mages in their leadership so this is no real surprise.

.....I can't remember any other confirmed blood mages in Act 2. I know I fought those bandits and they had a mage, but I don't think he was a blood mage. Just a bandit who happened to be a mage.

And once again, Hawke actually ran into less blood mages than the Warden did in Origins. Even the first two acts combined has less blood mages than the Warden meets and fights (if we do the Mages Collective quests.) In triple the length. Doesn't look like in Act 1 or Act 2 that Kirkwall had a blood mage problem at all. Merely a crime problem, a qunari problem, and a lot of emotional problems.

Act 3.

This entire act revolves around the templars and mages, and blood mages, and it's this act that they are all over the place. On the streets at night, plotting with the templars to depose Meredith, in gangs that we clean up at night, and later, Orsino uses it himself in despair and desperation.

To put it bluntly, the blood mage problem officially started after Meredith became the defacto Viscount and refused to let the city run itself. She claimed she was the only one qualified to protect the city, but the blood mage problems arose enmass only AFTER she claimed power.

[MisterJB]

While it is true that there were blood mages who might have not turned to such had they not been pushed so far; mostly Grace's group; it is also true that should they not fear reprisal, there is nothing deterring the mages from simply using blood magic. For instance, I don't buy Orsino's claim that he never used blood magic before. That was by means a beginner spell. And even if he didn't, it is quite obvious that, if not for fear of Meredith, he would have supported Quentin's experiments.

Also, here are two groups of blood mages you forget. The Tevinter Slavers in Act 1 and the Resolutionists in Act 3. It's true the Resolutionists claim to want freedom, but they are a Fraternity that did not originate in the Kirkwall Circle and they are not, therefore, a result of Meredith's actions.

In fact, most of the blood mages we see in Act 3 show no sign of having turned to blood magic because of Meredith at all. The blood mage gangs speak of taking over Kirkwall, not freedom and, say, Evelian was perverted by what she saw happen to her children, not abuse from the templars.

Of course, we can presume that someone like Huon wouldn't have been dangerous had the templars left him alone but I don't believe it. He could have always been a elven supremacist and now simply finds himself in position to do something about it.

Modifié par MisterJB, 16 janvier 2013 - 05:04 .

[LobselVith8]

Kashola wrote...

And these people on the forums are why i enjoy blasting down templars left and right. You push people to the brink, strip them away of their rights, and you call foul when they push back. The Chantry and their false god/prophet has created more blood mages than have prevented.

That's part of the problem. Blood magic is vilified by the Chantry, but it's the only school of magic that templars can't nulify with their abilities. If someone like Ser Kerras or Ser Alrik is hunting you down, they can shut down your magical abilities (like we saw with Meredith shutting down the magical ability of the saarebas in Act II), so it makes perfect sense that there would be mages who would use blood magic to protect themselves, especially against templars who might torture, rape, or murder them.

With Elthina doing nothing to stop her subordinate from illegally seizing power in Kirkwall, I can see why mages would be fleeing the Circle of Kirkwall to safety. The codex makes it clear that Elthina is the highest ranking member of the Chantry in the area, as well as Meredith's superior: "People frequently turn to her to mediate disputes-particularly those involving the powerful Templar Order, over whom she holds authority as the Chantry's ranking representative."

We also know that, as Alistair said, the Chantry controls the lyrium supply given to the templars, which they are addicted to: "The dwarves sell very little of the processed mineral to the surface, giving the greater portion of what they mine to their own smiths, who use it in the forging of all truly superior dwarven weapons and armor. What processed lyrium is sold on the surface goes only to the Chantry, who strictly control the supply. From the Chantry, it is dispensed both to the templars, who make use of it in tracking and fighting maleficarum, and to the Circle." Despite this, Elthina continually did nothing, even when she was presented by Hawke with evidence of corruption and abuse from Ser Alrik, Sister Petrice, and the dictatorship that Meredith illegally imposed on Kirkwall for over three years.

When blood magic can mean the difference between life and death, or being forced into servitude to the Chantry in the Circle of Magi, I can see why mages would use it. As we know from the story of Adain of Starkhaven, who fled during the coldest winter of the Free Marches because he "decided that it was better to die a free man than remain a servant to the Chantry and broke out of the Circle's stronghold", there will always be mages who will prefer to die on their feet than live on their knees.

[MisterJB]

Because, as we all know, templars are the only source of desperation in life. Thankfully, there aren't thousands of other situations that could lead to an otherwise honest mage using blood magic, never mind the not so honest ones.

[LobselVith8]

MisterJB wrote...

Because, as we all know, templars are the only source of desperation in life.

If templars are hunting a mage down for being an apostate, I'd imagine they would be a primary antagonist for a mage in that situation. The Hawke family certainly needed to stay one step ahead of the templars.

MisterJB wrote...

Thankfully, there aren't thousands of other situations that could lead to an otherwise honest mage using blood magic, never mind the not so honest ones. 

Of course there are. Finn used blood magic to locate an Eluvian, for example.

[dragonflight288]

LobselVith8 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Thankfully, there aren't thousands of other situations that could lead to an otherwise honest mage using blood magic, never mind the not so honest ones. 

Of course there are. Finn used blood magic to locate an Eluvian, for example.

And Merrill removing the barrier leading up Mt. Sundermount. Or cleansing the eluvian shard, thus curing it of the taint, making it no longer dangerous.

[MisterJB]

LobselVith8 wrote...
If templars are hunting a mage down for
being an apostate, I'd imagine they would be a primary antagonist for a
mage in that situation. The Hawke family certainly needed to stay one
step ahead of the templars.

The Hawke family never used blood magic to escape templars until the player takes the reins.

Are you missing the point or simply ignoring it? There
are countless situations in the real world that could convince a mage
to abuse his powers without any templars being involved.

dragonflight288 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Thankfully, there aren't thousands of other situations that could lead to an otherwise honest mage using blood magic, never mind the not so honest ones. 

Of course there are. Finn used blood magic to locate an Eluvian, for example.

And Merrill removing the barrier leading up Mt. Sundermount. Or cleansing the eluvian shard, thus curing it of the taint, making it no longer dangerous.

And Connor used it to summon an army of undead; Danarius killed a little boy to fuel his blood magic because he tought it was fun; Quentin killed  innocent.women and used blood magic on them because he couldn't stand to live without his wife.

[andy6915]

dragonflight288 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Thankfully, there aren't thousands of other situations that could lead to an otherwise honest mage using blood magic, never mind the not so honest ones. 

Of course there are. Finn used blood magic to locate an Eluvian, for example.

And Merrill removing the barrier leading up Mt. Sundermount. Or cleansing the eluvian shard, thus curing it of the taint, making it no longer dangerous.

I've got even better examples. If you make your Warden a blood mage, you use your blood magic to save captured elves from another blood mage slaver, to kill an Archdemon and end the blight, to rescue a man's daughter who is being held randsom, to kill the mother trying to destroy your arling, to help end a curse effecting both elves and weres alike by beating the keeper who created the curse, to rescue another guy's daughter from a desire demon trying to take her body ("Kitty"), to stop a woman trying to make golem slaves by using the anvil, to kill an evil cult of dragon worshipers who sacrifice babies, to protect villagers from undead trying to kill them in Redcliffe, to save the circle from a demon infestation... You get the picture. My blood mage Warden was soooooo evil... NOT. Blood magic isn't evil by default, and can in fact save lives if used by a good and moral mage like my mage Wardens.

Or Hawke, who can use blood magic to kill the Arishok and save Kirkewall, save a young mage from slavers, rescue innocent miners being attacked by dragons, kill one of the Magisters who brought Darkspawn into the world, rescue an elf from his blood mage master (Fenris) save guardsmen from ambushes set up by their corrupt captain, save a Templar from mages trying to put a demon in him, kill a high dragon that is too close to Kirkwall for comfort and could attack the city later, kill an insane child murderer who targets elves and is protected from justice by his nobleman father, kill a man who's murdered dozen of woman trying to revive his dead wife with their body parts, rescue 2 orphans from their crazy mage caretaker, kill a bunch of zealots who killed unarmed Qunari, save a city district from an elf who tried to poison everyone, and I could once again go on.

I hate to agree with Merril, but she's right when she says it's just magic like any other. It does have control powers that can be abused, but it can also save people if used well. It also can be abused to sacrifice lives to give you extra power, and that admittedly can't really save anyone but yourself and I do condem the use of that ability of blood magic (in fact, I've never once used the blood sacrifice power, specifically because I find it abhorrent), but a good and ethical mage won't do that. You just need someone with a good moral base to use it with integrity. Hawke's father used blood magic too, and he was very much a good guy and he used that power to seal that above mentioned Magister. Just because something is abusable doesn't mean everyone will abuse it even when they have it.

Also, I truly feel that the Chantry really only hates blood magic because it's the one power they can't just shut off and effortlessly slaughter a mage afterward. They demonize it to try to keep mages from having any capabilty of fighting back. The controlling aspect is likely a secondary concern and is not actually a true reason they fear it, the fact that they can't control blood mages back is why they fear it. If they could shut off blood magic too, they probably would give far less of a damn they then do now. They don't like it because it's the one weapon a mage has in their arsenal that templars can't do anything about, and that terrifies them.

[dragonflight288]

Wait, I just deleted what I just posted. Changing my response.

And Connor used it to summon an army of undead

Connor didn't summon any undead. That was the demon after he was already possessed.

Modifié par dragonflight288, 16 janvier 2013 - 09:29 .

[MisterJB]

For the record, I do not think that blood magic is inherently evil. I believe it is inherently dangerous and uniquely gifted for abuse. Certain magical abuse like Mind Control and Blood Sacrifice are only possible through blood magic and it is also the one magic that allows the summoning of demons which, as Avernus demonstrated, is something that can get quickly out of control.
So yes, blood magic is no different from Primal Magic but only in so far as a biochemical weapon is no different from a 9mm.
Both are weapons but both are also in ridiculously different levels of potential for harm and should be treated as such. People are not born blood mages, it's a choice. One that should be punished accordingly.

andy69156915 wrote...
Also, I truly feel that the Chantry really only hates blood magic because it's the one power they can't just shut off and effortlessly slaughter a mage afterward. They demonize it to try to keep mages from having any capabilty of fighting back. The controlling aspect is likely a secondary concern and is not actually a true reason they fear it, the fact that they can't control blood mages back is why they fear it. If they could shut off blood magic too, they probably would give far less of a damn they then do now. They don't like it because it's the one weapon a mage has in their arsenal that templars can't do anything about, and that terrifies them.

Hum...yes? If Templars could easily dispell blood magic, there would be less reason to be so strict with those who would abuse it.
That is not an unresonable policy, you know.

dragonflight288 wrote...
Connor didn't summon any undead. That was the demon after he was already possessed.

A demon which he summoned because he felt the need was strong enough. The point stands.