567 réponses à ce sujet

[don-mika]

Naitaka wrote...

don-mika wrote...

A plea for a return to DA:O art style

why do something that already was done before
every new game must be new  

Mass Effect kept a consistent art style throughout all three game and I don't think I've heard anyone complain about how it's not new. I'm not saying everything in Orlais should smell like dog and looks like they've ben dragged through the mud like it's in Feralden, however, I'd like to see a more consistent and tradtional look for the serie.

Mass Effect Trilogy is one game, one of the key notes is that they don't change anything
Dragon Age is difrent story, every game is independent. Future ME game will be completely different- new, just like DAI

[Plaintiff]

What is this picture supposed to be a comparison to? DA:O didn't look anything like that either. Why is it okay to have a surcoat with gold embroidery, but Hawke can't have a cape?

The practicality of armor and the overall aesthetic of the game are really two different issues.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 08 janvier 2013 - 12:42 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

DA:O didn't have an art style.

No, DA2 didn't. It was bland in comparison to Origins which had color but looked grim and dark suiting the original "dark fantasy" feel that the DA universe is meant to have.

@OP

Armor design isn't art style. DA3 could have the art style of Origins but could still sport rediculously armor design. However I actually liked the mage champion armor. Yeah one could argue it's not pratical but you had the robes if you wanted more "realistic" mage armor and warriors and rogues also had a fair amount of realistic type armor. If there's a few "fantasy" type armors thrown in then I've got no problem with that.

[Raging_Pulse]

OP, disliking the direction DA2 took the art style is all legitimate and fair, but you really picked the wrong example in that pic. Hawke's mage Champion Armor is the most bad-ass looking peace of mage equipment you'll ever hope to find. 

You do realize that's a mage Hawke in that picture, right?

[L. Han]

Mass Effect 3 had a lot of art changes. Especially characters. Notably Liara, Ashley even Kaidan. While I have gripes about this, I will not deny that it makes them look better and more appealing to new people.


Edit: Plus, they need the artists to work on somethin'.

Modifié par Rickets, 08 janvier 2013 - 01:21 .

[Nerevar-as]

Rickets wrote...

Mass Effect 3 had a lot of art changes. Especially characters. Notably Liara, Ashley even Kaidan. While I have gripes about this, I will not deny that it makes them look better and more appealing to new people.


Edit: Plus, they need the artists to work on somethin'.

Ash changed her hairstyle (and got breast implants), all three were still clearly them. Compare with Bann Teagan, Merrill (although I liked her more in DA2, the only elf redesign that worked), Zevran (WTF?) or Isabella (good thing we were told she was the same from Origins).

[Noviere]

I didn't hate DA2's art direction a s a whole, but there were definitely aspects of it that I didn't like(ie: hurlocks), or I thought they went a little too far with(ie:elves). That said, I'd be disappointed if they decided to go completely generic like DAO again. There is a middle ground between style and functionality.

I do like the concept art they released with the companion customization blog last year, so hopefully that is the direction they go.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Jonata wrote...

Dragon Age surely need some inspiration. It's kind of baffling how quickly they went from "generic fantasy goodness" to "Final Fantasy medieval edition". To me, it looks like this series is simply without a proper art design and struggling to find an identity.

My personal choice? A completely new art style. JRPGs like the aforementioned Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma are finding a perfect balance between realism and surrealist, flamboyant art styles. Let's take a hint or two from them insteand of going full-Soul Calibur with gauntlets that will "tear apart my itchy buttocks".

This is the best post in this thread. You've accurately summarized what's wrong. It's clear Bioware have yet to give DA a true unique identity and the DA2 artstyle was an attempt to do just that but it came out bland and character faces looked less detailed than their Origins counter-parts. As you said: there is a balance between realism and surrealism that games like Dark Souls accurately display. That is the direction Bioware should go with DA.

Mind you I'll take the artstyle of Origins anyday over the artstyle of DA2. I didn't see the reason why it had to go. It was just running on a old engine. Even so the artstyle was able to convey a colorful yet realistic grim feel for areas:



In contrast to the bland colorless landscapes of DA2:



Anyone can see that Origins looks better.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 08 janvier 2013 - 01:32 .

[upsettingshorts]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

DA:O didn't have an art style.

I don't know what an art style even is.

That much is plainly obvious.

Elton John is dead wrote...

colorful yet realistic grim

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 08 janvier 2013 - 02:16 .

[Sanunes]

I personally believe that the game will have a new (if only slightly) art direction because the game is moving to a new engine.

Part of the problem with graphics is they have an impact on the game design because of how much memory they use, on the PC its not as big of an issue, but I still don't own a computer that can run Crysis on the high end settings. I know you aren't asking for photorealism, but even style can be limited because of the amount of details being displayed.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

DA:O didn't have an art style.

I don't know what an art style even is.

That much is plainly obvious.

Elton John is dead wrote...

colorful yet realistic grim

???

Don't re word my comments. Artstyle does not mean what you think it means. It doesn't refer to aesthetic design as you seem to think it does. Dragon Age: Origins could easily have the champions armor. In fact it has been modded into Skyrim:



Yet Skyrim has an artstyle and one that is better than DA2's bland art.

Hey but if you think the DA2 artstyle below is better than the artstyle of Origins below (which was colorful - as in having more than one color unlike DA2 - and yet dark and grim as any picture from the Circle tower will show) then fine.



"Shut'up your face!"

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 08 janvier 2013 - 02:30 .

[upsettingshorts]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Artstyle does not mean what you think it means. It doesn't refer to aesthetic design as you seem to think it does.

Thank you for proving my point so comprehensively.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 08 janvier 2013 - 02:32 .

[Dhiro]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Jonata wrote...

Dragon Age surely need some inspiration. It's kind of baffling how quickly they went from "generic fantasy goodness" to "Final Fantasy medieval edition". To me, it looks like this series is simply without a proper art design and struggling to find an identity.

My personal choice? A completely new art style. JRPGs like the aforementioned Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma are finding a perfect balance between realism and surrealist, flamboyant art styles. Let's take a hint or two from them insteand of going full-Soul Calibur with gauntlets that will "tear apart my itchy buttocks".

This is the best post in this thread. You've accurately summarized what's wrong. It's clear Bioware have yet to give DA a true unique identity and the DA2 artstyle was an attempt to do just that but it came out bland and character faces looked less detailed than their Origins counter-parts. As you said: there is a balance between realism and surrealism that games like Dark Souls accurately display. That is the direction Bioware should go with DA.

Mind you I'll take the artstyle of Origins anyday over the artstyle of DA2. I didn't see the reason why it had to go. It was just running on a old engine. Even so the artstyle was able to convey a colorful yet realistic grim feel for areas:



In contrast to the bland colorless landscapes of DA2:



Anyone can see that Origins looks better.

I think that the DA II screenshot looks much better.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Artstyle does not mean what you think it means. It doesn't refer to aesthetic design as you seem to think it does.

Thank you for proving my point so comprehensively.

"Aesthetic design" is exactly what an art style is.

No.

Design of armor is not what an art style is.

So Skyrim suddenly has Dragon Age 2's artstyle because someone modded in DA2 armors? Don't you see the flaw in your definition of artstyle now? If I add DA2 armor into Dark Souls does that mean they both share the same artstyle now?



Artstyle refers to the whole color, contrast and brightness of things. You have realism, surrelism and cartoonism. DA2 fell into the last category whereas DA:O was in between the first and second. Anime is also an artstyle.

http://library.think...59/artstyle.htm

Aesthetic design can be part of an artstyle but does not define it. You can have anime type swords in a game which features realistic enviroments and characters models. The game's artstyle would be defined by the later aspects.

@Dhiro

Eh, each to their own.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 08 janvier 2013 - 02:38 .

[upsettingshorts]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Artstyle does not mean what you think it means. It doesn't refer to aesthetic design as you seem to think it does.

Thank you for proving my point so comprehensively.

"Aesthetic design" is exactly what an art style is.

No.

Design of armor IS NOT what an art style is.

It's certainly part of it.

Elton John is dead wrote...

So Skyrim is suddenly Dragon Age 2's artstyle because someone modded in DA2 armors?

Are you off your damn rocker man?

Skyrim's vanilla armors are certainly part of Skyrim's art style.

What the frigging modders do is the very definition of irrelevant.  

Elton John is dead wrote...

Don't you see the flaw in your definition of artstyle now?

No.  I see you have even less of a clue than I thought, though.

Elton John is dead wrote...

If I add DA2 armor into Dark Souls does that mean they both share the same artstyle now?

No.  

Elton John is dead wrote...

Artstyle refers to the whole color, contrast and brightness of things. You have realism, surrelism and cartoonism. DA2 fell into the last category whereas DA:O was in between the first and second.

Color, contrast, and brightness are also part of the art style.  

Your summary of where each game fell into three absurdly broad categories is laughably simplistic, and wholly self-serving.  There are elements of all three concepts in both games.  

[Dhiro]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Artstyle does not mean what you think it means. It doesn't refer to aesthetic design as you seem to think it does.

Thank you for proving my point so comprehensively.

"Aesthetic design" is exactly what an art style is.

No.

Design of armor IS NOT what an art style is.

So Skyrim is suddenly Dragon Age 2's artstyle because someone modded in DA2 armors?

Don't you see the flaw in your definition of artstyle now?

If I add DA2 armor into Dark Souls does that mean they both share the same artstyle now?



Artstyle refers to the whole color, contrast and brightness of things. You have realism, surrelism and cartoonism. DA2 fell into the last category whereas DA:O was in between the first and second.

I assume that if someone tried to mod a set of armor with true art style Skyrim would proceed to shut down and set your PC on fire, then?

[Eternal Phoenix]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

It's certainly part of it.

Doesn't define it.

Upsettingshorts wrote...Are you off your damn rocker man?

Skyrim's vanilla armors are certainly part of Skyrim's art style.

What the frigging modders do is the very definition of irrelevant.  

I wasn't referring to the vanilla armors. I was referring to the mod someone made where the Dragon Age 2 armor was added. By your definition the armor makes Skyrim's artstyle DA2's artstyle. Of course you ignored this point in my comment because you have now realized that you're talking crap.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

No.  I see you have even less of a clue than I thought, though.

More than you still then.

Upsettingshorts wrote...
No.  

Well by your definition it does. Stop contradicting yourself.

Upsettingshorts wrote...Your summary of where each game fell into three absurdly broad categories is laughably simplistic, and wholly self-serving.  There are elements of all three concepts in both games.  

Nope. Dragon Age: Origins was wholly based on realism and surrelism. Dragon Age 2 opted for a more unrealistic feel. Now please visit the site I linked you too because it really will tell you the definition of artstyle. Don't make me paste the contents here.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Dhiro wrote...

I assume that if someone tried to mod a set of armor with true art style Skyrim would proceed to shut down and set your PC on fire, then?

?

[Darth Death]

Anything that's concerning Origins is welcomed.
Anything that's concerning DA2 should be nug tied & left for the darkspawn.

[upsettingshorts]

Elton John is dead wrote...

I wasn't referring to the vanilla armors. I was referring to the mod someone made where the Dragon Age 2 armor was added. By your definition the armor makes Skyrim's artstyle DA2's artstyle. Of course you ignored this point in my comment because you have now realized that you're talking crap.

No.  This is complete nonsense.  You are either completely lost or trolling.

By my definition everything that was designed for Skyrim by Bethesda is representative of its art style.  What modders add is completely damn irrelevant.

Elton John is dead wrote...

Well by your definition it does. Stop contradicting yourself.

Leaning towards completely lost.

Elton John is dead wrote...

Nope. Dragon Age: Origins was wholly based on realism and surrelism.

Actual artist and BioWare art director completely disagrees with your summary:

Matt Goldman said...

According to Matt Goldman, art director for BioWare's Dragon Age II, being generic was an actual design principle for the Dragon Age: Origins art team. While Goldman didn't direct the art department that worked on Origins, he's familiar with the instructions the former team was given: "Actually, the design creative was 'it's generic,' which isn't the most inspirational direction that you could give a team." 

"And, you know, to be honest you're going up against Lord of the Rings and Conan and other established [intellectual properties] that have nailed that 'generic' fantasy way harder than we're ever gonna nail it. "I totally think that the art style needed to change."

Art style is aesthetic design.

Elton John is dead wrote...

Dragon Age 2 opted for a more unrealistic feel. Now please visit the site I linked you too because it really will tell you the definition of artstyle. Don't make me paste the contents here.

If you'd like to paste the work of fourth graders into this thread to help you, it'd certainly be an improvement on your own argument so far.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 08 janvier 2013 - 02:51 .

[The Elder King]

Darth Death wrote...

Anything that's concerning Origins is welcomed.

I liked DAO a lot more of DA2 (though I didn't hate it), and I'd like if Bioware will took more from DAO, but DAO wasn't perfect. The art style (including the armour design) wasn't that good. Not that DA2 was any better, but I'm sure that they could do a lot better than both.

Modifié par hhh89, 08 janvier 2013 - 02:53 .

[PinkDiamondstl]

Oh god no the old art-style was so ugly. One of the biggest flaws of DAO.

[BBK4114]

Hahaha! Hawke's armour looks so much better in Skyrim than in DA2. HD textures are nice.

I'm not a big fan of DA2's art direction and if they go further towards the cartoon-like style (as they did in MotA) I'll not like it. However from the limited and early artwork though, I think I'm safe from that.

If the story is really good and not an angst-driven-life-sucks story, and it has great game-play that includes puzzles and tactical combat, then I'll not really care.


/edit: one too many drivens 

Modifié par BBK4114, 08 janvier 2013 - 02:56 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

No.  This is complete nonsense.  You are either completely lost or trolling.

By my definition everything that was designed for Skyrim by Bethesda is representative of its art style.  What modders add is completely damn irrelevant.

Yet according to your earlier comments: artstyle is DEFINED by the aesthetic design of weapons and armor. Stop contradicting yourself and admit you're wrong.

Upsettingshorts wrote...
"Aesthetic design" is exactly what an art style is.

LOL you even modifed the post to try and save face but the quote still remains in my earlier post.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Leaning towards completely lost.

I know you are. Let me illuminate the way for you son.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Actual artist and BioWare art director completely disagrees with your summary:


"According to Matt Goldman, art director for BioWare's Dragon Age II, being generic was an actual design principle for the Dragon Age: Origins art team. While Goldman didn't direct the art department that worked on Origins, he's familiar with the instructions the former team was given: "Actually, the design creative was 'it's generic,' which isn't the most inspirational direction that you could give a team." 

"And, you know, to be honest you're going up against Lord of the Rings and Conan and other established [intellectual properties] that have nailed that 'generic' fantasy way harder than we're ever gonna nail it. "I totally think that the art style needed to change."

You misunderstand what he's saying. It's generic in design but it's still realism and surrealism.

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Art style is aesthetic design.

Okay then. That means modded Skyrim with Dragon Age 2 armors shares the same artstyle as DA2.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

If you'd like to paste the work of fourth graders into this thread to help you, it'd certainly be an improvement on your own argument so far.

Yes because it seems you're on the level of fourth graders. I would have posted a more advanced art site attempting to explain what artstyle is but you can't understand the fundemental basic and confuse "aesthetic design" with the style of the art.

In any case sites for adults still agree with me:

http://painting.abou.../art-styles.htm

Keep trying. You're lost in both ways.

"Realism is the art style most people regard as "real art", where the subject of the painting looks very much like it appears in real life."

I know this is speaking of paintings but it can be applied to games too. No one can call cartoons an example of realism whereas some games can be compared as the designers have attempted to make things look realistic. Dragon Age 2 shows little traits of realism whereas Origins did in both shading and coloring.



Just for comparison:



DA2 is too bright with no contrast, no shading, no shadows and no detail. Actually perhaps it is safe to say Bioware DID indeed invent their own unique artstyle with DA2. It just wasn't good.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 08 janvier 2013 - 03:09 .

[upsettingshorts]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

No.  This is complete nonsense.  You are either completely lost or trolling.

By my definition everything that was designed for Skyrim by Bethesda is representative of its art style.  What modders add is completely damn irrelevant.

Yet according to your earlier comments: artstyle is DEFINED by the aesthetic design of weapons and armor. Stop contradicting yourself and admit you're wrong.

The aesthetic design of the armor and weapons is part of the aesthetic design of the game.

This is not contradictory at all.  You are confused.

"Pie isn't food!" - You
"This slice is part of the pie."  - Me
"YOU SAID THE SLICE WAS THE PIE LOOK AT THIS 4TH GRADER'S RECIPE." - You

Spare me.

Elton John is dead wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...
"Aesthetic design" is exactly what an art style is.

LOL you even modifed the post to try and save face but the quote still remains in my earlier post.

I'll repeat it here.

Aesthetic design is exactly what an art style is.

This is not contradictory at all.  You are confused.

Elton John is dead wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Art style is aesthetic design.

Okay then. That means modded Skyrim with Dragon Age 2 armors shares the same artstyle as DA2.

This is a profoundly stupid argument.

Nobody could disagree with it more than Bethesda and BioWare's artists.

Dragon Age 2 armor has DA2 art design.

Skyrim armor has Skyrim art design.

If you put Dragon Age 2 armor in Skyrim, it's something with DA2s art design in a game filled with Skyrim's art design. 

Elton John is dead wrote...

Keep trying. You're lost in both ways.

Speak for yourself, I'm not the one claiming Origins is the Mona Lisa.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 08 janvier 2013 - 03:19 .