567 réponses à ce sujet

[Eternal Phoenix]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

The aesthetic design of the armor and weapons is part of the aesthetic design of the game.

This is not contradictory at all.  You are confused.

It is contradictory when you earlier said aesthetic design defines the artstyle. Stop contradicting yourself.

Upsettingshorts wrote...
I'll repeat it here.

Aesthetic design is exactly what an art style is.

This is not contradictory at all.  You are confused.

So artstyle isn't about the color and contrast? Have you still learnt nothing from those children who know more than you? I thought that site would be easy for you to understand but clearly not...

Upsettingshorts wrote...
This is a profoundly stupid argument.

Nobody could disagree with it more than Bethesda and BioWare's artists.

Dragon Age 2 armor has DA2 art design.

Skyrim armor has Skyrim art design.

If you put Dragon Age 2 armor in Skyrim, it's something with DA2s art design in a game filled with Skyrim's art design. 

So you're now disagreeing with your previous statement of "aesthetic design is the artstyle"?

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Speak for yourself, I'm not the one claiming Origins is the Mona Lisa.  

Neither am I. You're confused.

I suggest you refer to the comparison pictures I posted of Alistair from both games. One is more realistic than the other. Origins employed shading and shadows for its artsyle while DA2 didn't. Generally shading and shadows are done to depict a more "realistic" image. Not that I expect you to know this of course.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 08 janvier 2013 - 03:15 .

[upsettingshorts]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

The aesthetic design of the armor and weapons is part of the aesthetic design of the game.

This is not contradictory at all.  You are confused.

It is contradictory when you earlier said aesthetic design defines the artstyle. Stop contradicting yourself.

Is literally anyone else having as hard a time following along as Elton John here?

Aesthetic design is art style.

The aesthetics of armor and weapons are part of the how the game looks, which is determined by the art style.

So is everything else, up to and including color and contrast.

The artists come together and produce concept art for weapons, armor, environments, characters, everything.  Collectively, this can be referred to as the game's art design.  Then, working with 3d artists, level designers, etc, they do what they can to implement this in the game itself.  

But whatever, if you're going to erroneously conflate ahistorical retronyms describing schools of art with the concept of distinctive visual aesthetics represented by a game's style, there's no point in continuing the argument.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 08 janvier 2013 - 03:20 .

[hoorayforicecream]

Oh, an art style discussion!

No wait, it's just a bunch of cherrypicked screenshots and people throwing about terms they don't understand. I can play too!

I miss these gloriously colorful environments:


Amazing realism:


Beautiful lighting:


Colorful environments:


Absolutely gorgeous.


And those little touches! The award for most brilliant use of fish in decor goes to...


Truly an artistic masterpiece, the style of which should be emulated for decades to come.



All images stolen shamelessly from psdo's recent replay of DAO.

Edit: In before "STILL BETTER LOOKING THAN DA2!!!"

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 08 janvier 2013 - 03:21 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Elton John is dead wrote...

In contrast to the bland colorless landscapes of DA2:



Anyone can see that Origins looks better.

Windows Dragon Age ... very uninteresting. And those health/magic bars look like Final Fantasy games... Even "Paradox Plaza" does it better!

Also Skyrim's art style is better. / word

Modifié par Legatus Arianus, 08 janvier 2013 - 03:22 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Eh, still better than DA2's direction...







Next gen graphics and visuals everyone!



Better graphics than Crysis 3!!

Forget shading and color. DA2 has set the new standard for art.

Sarcasm aside:



Two pictures of the same thing. They're different. How? Both feature the same woman sitting down in the same way with the same clothing. The artstyle is different not because Mona Lisa is wielding a giant anime greatsword in one but because of differences in color, detail, contrast and how the image is portrayed. One has detail, shading and is realistic whereas the other one is the complete opposite.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 08 janvier 2013 - 03:32 .

[Uccio]

Naitaka wrote...

 While I'm sure there're people who enjoyed the anime art style with over the top animation of DA2, personally I felt it greatly detract from the experience. I'd also like to point out that even JRPG hardly adopts that kind of art style and I really don't feel like it suits a western rpg in a medieval setting. Anyway, they say that a picture is worth a thousand word so I'll just leave this here for consideration.

Agreed. And I have to say I like your DA2 costume critic. 


Hawke looks like hes been fishing clothing and armor parts from the battlefield, after best parts were cleared.

I call that look "The Hobo".

Modifié par Ukki, 08 janvier 2013 - 03:28 .

[hoorayforicecream]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Eh, still better than DA2's direction...
Next gen graphics and visuals everyone!

Better graphics than Crysis 3!!

Forget shading and color. DA2 has set the new standard for art.

If I was presenting DA2 as "better", then I would have said so. I'm not. DA2 looks pretty terrible, especially in the cases where you look extremely closely at low-res NPCs that you can't interact with that exist solely for the purposes of making the world feel less empty. I totally agree that some parts of it are hideous.

What I am saying is that DAO was also ******-poor ugly quite often, for large swaths of the game. That you think it should be emulated in future games means that your taste is bad and you should feel bad.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Is literally anyone else having as hard a time following along as Elton John here?

Aesthetic design is art style.

The aesthetics of armor and weapons are part of the how the game looks, which is determined by the art style.

So rediculously over-sized weapons ripped straight from animes make the artstyle of a game an anime if it clearly features realistic looking characters? Once again you misunderstand the differences between design and style.

Upsettingshorts wrote...
The artists come together and produce concept art for weapons, armor, environments, characters, everything.  Collectively, this can be referred to as the game's art design.  Then, working with 3d artists, level designers, etc, they do what they can to implement this in the game itself.  

But whatever, if you're going to erroneously conflate ahistorical retronyms describing schools of art with the concept of distinctive visual aesthetics represented by a game's style, there's no point in continuing the argument.

Good going at attempting to save yourself here by trying to change your original argument. You are now discussing an altogether different subject. The art's design and not the art's style.

Yeah I think we're done here.

[Eternal Phoenix]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

If I was presenting DA2 as "better", then I would have said so. I'm not. DA2 looks pretty terrible, especially in the cases where you look extremely closely at low-res NPCs that you can't interact with that exist solely for the purposes of making the world feel less empty. I totally agree that some parts of it are hideous.

What I am saying is that DAO was also ******-poor ugly quite often, for large swaths of the game. That you think it should be emulated in future games means that your taste is bad and you should feel bad.

I wasn't referring to the graphics. Graphically speaking both games look bad although I think Origins had better character faces while DA2 had better detailed enviroments which made things more pleasing to look at. What I was actually referring to what the art style direction of Origins and how shading was implemented along with color. The artstyle of Origins would look good on a new engine.

The Witcher 2 kept The Witcher 1's artstyle and naturally the sequel looked better because it was on a better engine. The same can be applied to all three Mass Effect games.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 08 janvier 2013 - 03:44 .

[katamuro]

Xewaka wrote...

Dhiro wrote...
I hope they keep DA II's art style.

I hope they improve on it. There were several instances where DA 2 style was more of a miss than a hit (the most clear example I can think of: Hurlock teeth.)

I have to agree, DA2 had a much more appealing style. And if they improve that it will be a unique and vibrant style. nlike DA:O which just had a generic medieval fantasy style. 

[hoorayforicecream]

Elton John is dead wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

If I was presenting DA2 as "better", then I would have said so. I'm not. DA2 looks pretty terrible, especially in the cases where you look extremely closely at low-res NPCs that you can't interact with that exist solely for the purposes of making the world feel less empty. I totally agree that some parts of it are hideous.

What I am saying is that DAO was also ******-poor ugly quite often, for large swaths of the game. That you think it should be emulated in future games means that your taste is bad and you should feel bad.

I wasn't referring to the graphics. Graphically speaking both games look bad although I think Origins had better character faces while DA2 had better detailed enviroments which made things more pleasing to look at. What I was actually referring to what the art style direction of Origins and how shading was implemented along with color. The artstyle of Origins would look good on a new engine.

If you aren't referring to graphics, then why do you keep posting pictures of low-resolution non-interactable NPCs in DA2?

If you're going to compare one to the other, it's the best of the best, or the worst of the worst. Comparing the best of one to the worst of the other is just being dishonest.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Those pictures also showed that nothing in DA2 is shaded which is part of DA2's artstyle. Look at the backgrounds in those pictures which are two bright even in those mines.

[hoorayforicecream]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Those pictures also showed that nothing in DA2 is shaded which is part of DA2's artstyle. Look at the backgrounds in those pictures which are two bright even in those mines.

You posted this picture:



... which is specifically zoomed in and has almost no background detail. And you say you did this to show that "nothing in DA2 is shaded"? I don't say this often, but... please, stop lying.

Edit: DAO does the thing you are accusing DA2 of too.


So... you're wrong as well as lying.

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 08 janvier 2013 - 03:59 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Is she shaded or detailed?

No.

And yet you accuse me of lying?

Meanwhile character faces in Origins had shade, texture and shadows.

This was never about the graphical engines of Origins or DA2 but if you want to believe that then go ahead.



This picture proves my point. There should be shading here and yet there is not. There are no shadows and the landscape looks bright and bland. Meanwhile Origins has shadow and things in the distance generally look more detailed as opposed to the water rushed look of DA2.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 08 janvier 2013 - 04:11 .

[Arppis]

I wish the armor wouldn't be so HUGE same with swords. So I think some of the DA2 armors were pretty good looking. DA:0 had like 3 sets of armor and they all sucked in their own way.

[Wullo]

If I knew how to post pictures (I am a n00b on the forumzz ) I would post a picture of Corypheus. In my opinion his face is the most detailed character face in the franchise so far.
But it's just my opinion.

[hoorayforicecream]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Is she shaded or detailed?

No.

And yet you accuse me of lying?

You specifically mention backgrounds when referring to a screenshot with almost no background. If you're not lying, then you don't seem to know what the word "background" means.

Meanwhile character faces in Origins had shade, texture and shadows.

I don't think you know what "shade" means in this context. Shadows and textures are a given in both games.

[Dhiro]

Wullo wrote...

If I knew how to post pictures (I am a n00b on the forumzz ) I would post a picture of Corypheus. In my opinion his face is the most detailed character face in the franchise so far.
But it's just my opinion.

[img] link-of-the-picture [/ img], without the spaces

Modifié par Dhiro, 08 janvier 2013 - 04:03 .

[Wullo]

Dhiro wrote...

Wullo wrote...

If I knew how to post pictures (I am a n00b on the forumzz ) I would post a picture of Corypheus. In my opinion his face is the most detailed character face in the franchise so far.
But it's just my opinion.

link-of-the-picture [/ img], without the spaces

Thanks

[img]http://images.wikia.com/dragonage/images/a/ab/Corypheus_Closeup.jpg

I think he is beautiful 

Modifié par Wullo, 08 janvier 2013 - 04:18 .

[katamuro]

If you want to blame something for low polygon count in both games then blame the fact that they had to adapt to consoles which have less ram and graphics ram so they had to limit the amount of polygons on the models to suit that. And both games have shading, lightning and shadows. There isnt that much difference in them graphics wise. DA2 is just more vibrant so sometimes it seems like the graphics are worse because the overall tonality of the graphics are more suited for higher detailed models.

[hoorayforicecream]

Just to get it out of the way...

A shader is small program that runs on the GPU. It executes code that applies to specific surfaces in order to adjust the way it looks. You can see that there are shaders at work, even on Orana, by noting several differences in the way she looks:

- Her hair is lit differently than her face
- Her eyes are lit differently and semi-reflective than the rest of her
- Her skin is not as shiny as her clothing

These are all effects representative of shaders. One of the most common uses of shaders is for bump mapping. It takes separate texture data and maps it to the height of the object, which then calculates alternate lighting based on the texture. The result is that a perfectly smooth surface can appear to be non-smooth without the need to render a lot of additional vertices.

Specular maps and sub-surface scattering are both additional examples of shader effects. DA2 most certainly uses bump maps and specular maps in their model data.

[Eternal Phoenix]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

[You specifically mention backgrounds when referring to a screenshot with almost no background. If you're not lying, then you don't seem to know what the word "background" means.

I don't think you know what "shade" means in this context. Shadows and textures are a given in both games.

I was not referring to the elf screenshot. I was referring to the backgrounds in all the other pictures. Yeah Dragon Age 2 has shade and shadows but they're not applied to the same extent as they are in Origins. Check my modified previous comment for the comparison between landscapes from both games.





Origins is more vivid in color.



Underground areas generally look dark and foreboding and give off the "dark fantasy" feel.



Underground areas in DA2 don't.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 08 janvier 2013 - 04:20 .

[Vilegrim]

Darth Death wrote...

Anything that's concerning Origins is welcomed.
Anything that's concerning DA2 should be nug tied & left for the darkspawn.

Nug tied with the entrails of it's own children, never forget that part.

[hoorayforicecream]

Elton John is dead wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

[You specifically mention backgrounds when referring to a screenshot with almost no background. If you're not lying, then you don't seem to know what the word "background" means.

I don't think you know what "shade" means in this context. Shadows and textures are a given in both games.

I was not referring to the elf screenshot.

So you just posted the elf screenshot... why? Oh, right. Cherrypicking.

I was referring to the backgrounds in all the other pictures. Yeah Dragon Age 2 has shade and shadows but they're not applied to the same extent as they are in Origins. Check my modified previous comment for the comparison between landscapes from both games.

Error, goalpost movement detected. Please put them back to where they were, thanks.