567 réponses à ce sujet

[axl99]

DA:O's visuals was a pile of steaming hot mess. There was nothing visually unique about it or well designed for that matter. It was not even well lit.

Me, I've always had a gripe with the character models. Forget how much superficial detail there is on their faces, wrinkles and the same bad teeth texture et all. They're all butt ugly. And the material shaders on weapons and armor? Looks like melted plastic. But which is all well and good if you're looking far away and top down in the middle of combat, but up close... Just. No.

DA2 was straight up well designed. Clear iconography of factions, character readability, and at the very very least, it wasn't visually muddy.

And now?

Antiquated engine limitations and years of a lack of proper art direction be damned. I'm glad DA3 is on Frostbyte and I'm glad the team made the push to give Dragon Age a more distinctive look than "generic fantasy mush that's mostly grey and brown".

[In Exile]

Naitaka wrote...

 While I'm sure there're people who enjoyed the anime art style with over the top animation of DA2, personally I felt it greatly detract from the experience. I'd also like to point out that even JRPG hardly adopts that kind of art style and I really don't feel like it suits a western rpg in a medieval setting. Anyway, they say that a picture is worth a thousand word so I'll just leave this here for consideration.

Some of the points are absurd. The surcoat hangs as low as the `cape` in the DA2 image. The other comment about the shin guards is actually stupid - because their shape is the same as the elbow pads the armour hads (triangular).

At any rate, I hate the WRPG style when combined with a RPG mechanics. Those are so absurd that the pretend realism really takes me out of the game. We have a knight in full armour electrocuted, set on fire, frozen ... and then he gets up and is totally okay?

[Vortex13]

Biotic Sage wrote...

robtheguru wrote...

DA2 definitely had a more 'cartooney' / anime feel to it which I wasn't all that fussed on. I still enjoyed the game dont get me wrong, but i'd much prefer they edge towards something that looks a bit more realistic. Or if they do decide to carry on from DA2, make it a bit darker, it was just way too bright.

They needed to make it ridiculously bright, thanks to all those lovely browns! haha

In all seriousness though, I have grumbled about the DA2 artstyle since I first saw all the way up until the present day...during this post in fact: To me, cartoonish, stylized visuals do not mesh with the world of Thedas, which is one that is grounded in very real-world-mirroring socio-political issues such as racism, religion, and government. In my opinion the art style should reflect the themes of the content, and DA2 is a complete failure in that regard. I'm not campaigning for photorealism, but if it the visuals were to be placed on a sliding scale with full-cartoon at one end and photorealism at the other, it should definitely lean more toward photorealism.

DA:O was definitely lackluster and unimaginitave in terms of the visual aesthetics, but at least it didn't forcibly clash with the narrative content.

I agree with you Biotic Sage, about the art style clashing with the narritive theme. The art redesign of DA 2 was very jarring for me from a narritive point of view, and while certain aspects of the art style looked good (Qunari looking Minitaur-esque was a good change IMO) and some were tolerable (Elf redesign only because I had elf party members for the majority of the game so I was accustomed to seeing it; still would like a less caractchure appearance) but the biggest and worst redesign (IMO) was the Darkspawn. People have said that the DA:O Darkspawn were generic orcs and goblins (I liked the look personally) but they FIT THE NARRATIVE.

Look up the lore behind how Darkspawn are created (born): They find and capture a female, force her to eat the flesh of her comrades, as well as Darkspawn and they rape her continuiously. Canabalizim, and rape are the two defining characteristics of not only Broodmothers but of how the Darkspawn enter into this world; a corrupting and twisting of beauty into something horrible.

Not only that, but you have numerous lore pointing to the Darkspawn taint corrupting weapons, armor, and even the very ground they walk upon. Their blood is highly toxic and spells cretins death to all but a select few individuals that come in contact with it.

DA:O / DA:A: The Darkspawn astetic fit the narrative, themes, and lore surrounding them.

DA 2: The Darspawn astetic clashes with the narratives, themes, and lore surrounding them.

Even the Darkspawn in Legacy are jarring (Corpheus is the closest to matching the theme but just barely). Darkspawn no longer resemble the corrupted races they spawn from; DA:O Genlocks looked vaguely Dwarven, Hurlocks were twisted humans who's evil grin and laugh added to their ruthless cunning. DA 2 Genlocks (especially the Genlock Alpha) look more like baby ogres or gorillas then Dwarves, Hurlocks are undead skeletons not twisted reflections of humanity, and while the Qunari do resemble the DA:O's ogre, the redesign is not even close.

All the DA 2 Darkspawn are cleaner then the PC and his/her party, the pristine armor of the Hurlocks, the 'baby face' of the ogres, the Donkey Kong vibe of the Genlocks; none of it matches. And it is this that creates a narritive disconect in the game.

I really hope that the Devs are looking into the 'narrative consistency' of the astetics for DA:I (especially the Darkspawn). I would prefer the DA:O's Darkspawn, but I am not against a (new) redesign, as long as it took the lore and backstory into account.

[ohnotherancor]

axl99 wrote...

DA:O's visuals was a pile of steaming hot mess. There was nothing visually unique about it or well designed for that matter. It was not even well lit.

Me, I've always had a gripe with the character models. Forget how much superficial detail there is on their faces, wrinkles and the same bad teeth texture et all. They're all butt ugly. And the material shaders on weapons and armor? Looks like melted plastic. But which is all well and good if you're looking far away and top down in the middle of combat, but up close... Just. No.

DA2 was straight up well designed. Clear iconography of factions, character readability, and at the very very least, it wasn't visually muddy.

And now?

Antiquated engine limitations and years of a lack of proper art direction be damned. I'm glad DA3 is on Frostbyte and I'm glad the team made the push to give Dragon Age a more distinctive look than "generic fantasy mush that's mostly grey and brown".

You know what I really hope we never see again?



The ugly, ugly noble clothing. Also bizarre anatomy.

[axl99]

^ THIS.

And I will have to argue DAO Darkspawn are still visually orcs. Let's not even kid ourselves. They're ugly. They're boring. They look just like every other DnD/MtG/fantasy enemy trope you can dig up in a player's handbook. 

Going by the lore that each type of darkspawn is based on a race they came from, I'd rather go with the ones from DA2. At least their silhouettes are distinctive.

Modifié par axl99, 08 janvier 2013 - 08:40 .

[Liamv2]

As i said earlier in the thread can't we have a mix or even a new one

[In Exile]

Vortex13 wrote...
DA:O / DA:A: The Darkspawn astetic fit the narrative, themes, and lore surrounding them.

The hurlocks looked like rotten zombies. The genlocks looked like gremlins. And the ogres and nothing to do with the qunari, that looked like tall purle humans.

DA:O Genlocks looked vaguely Dwarven, Hurlocks were twisted humans who's evil grin and laugh added to their ruthless cunning. DA 2 Genlocks (especially the Genlock Alpha) look more like baby ogres or gorillas then Dwarves, Hurlocks are undead skeletons not twisted reflections of humanity, and while the Qunari do resemble the DA:O's ogre, the redesign is not even close. 

The darkspawn design sucks in both games, but at least the DA2 darkspawn looked like a single race.

All the DA 2 Darkspawn are cleaner then the PC and his/her party, the pristine armor of the Hurlocks, the 'baby face' of the ogres, the Donkey Kong vibe of the Genlocks; none of it matches. And it is this that creates a narritive disconect in the game.

The golden armour of the Hurlock champions in DA:O was more beautiful and ornate than Cailan's.

[Vortex13]

axl99 wrote...

I will have to disagree. DAO Darkspawn are still visually orcs.

Going by the lore that each type of darkspawn is based on a race they came from, I'd rather go with the ones from DA2.

I can respect your opinion on the art styles. I just don't see how DA 2 Darkspawn fit with their lore.

How does a DA 2 Genlock Alpha = Corrupted dwarf? 

Sure the Shades in DA:O were only vaugely elven, but you still had some similarities. I expected the DA 2 Genlocks to pick up barrels and start throwing them at me, and that really hindered my immersion in the game.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Vortex13 wrote...

How does a DA 2 Genlock Alpha = Corrupted dwarf? 

Sure the Shades in DA:O were only vaugely elven, but you still had some similarities. I expected the DA 2 Genlocks to pick up barrels and start throwing them at me, and that really hindered my immersion in the game.

They've devolved into something more ape-like. The knuckle-walking posture puts them closer to the ground and lets them appear shorter relative to the other Darkspawn without making them look like obnoxious little gremlins, also obviously nodding to their parent race's height and heritage. You might think of Donkey Kong but regardless the gorilla imagery is really smart, since those guys can rip your face off. The genlock redesign looks actually intimidating unlike in DA:O where I don't see how you couldn't just punt them off a cliff.

I don't believe Shades were meant to be elves? I think you mean Shrieks. I don't see how it is harder to see how a dwarf could be a DA2 genlock than an elf could be a shriek or a qunari be an ogre...

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 08 janvier 2013 - 09:01 .

[oui_je_danse]

To return to the original topic and post: I disagree.

Every thread seems to dissolve into bickering over DA:O vs DA2. As if we need to pick a winner and remake THAT ONE GAME repeatedly. But what the devs will end up doing is looking over all their canon (everything from their games to their comics) to refine and redefine their universe. This is a good thing! Constant creativity will only add to DA.

I'm especially excited with how they've started developing regional styles. Everyone here should check out the comics.

Modifié par oui_je_danse, 08 janvier 2013 - 09:12 .

[Ghost]

Biotic Sage wrote...

robtheguru wrote...

DA2 definitely had a more 'cartooney' / anime feel to it which I wasn't all that fussed on. I still enjoyed the game dont get me wrong, but i'd much prefer they edge towards something that looks a bit more realistic. Or if they do decide to carry on from DA2, make it a bit darker, it was just way too bright.

They needed to make it ridiculously bright, thanks to all those lovely browns! haha

In all seriousness though, I have grumbled about the DA2 artstyle since I first saw all the way up until the present day...during this post in fact:  To me, cartoonish, stylized visuals do not mesh with the world of Thedas, which is one that is grounded in very real-world-mirroring socio-political issues such as racism, religion, and government.  In my opinion the art style should reflect the themes of the content, and DA2 is a complete failure in that regard.  I'm not campaigning for photorealism, but if it the visuals were to be placed on a sliding scale with full-cartoon at one end and photorealism at the other, it should definitely lean more toward photorealism.

DA:O was definitely lackluster and unimaginitave in terms of the visual aesthetics, but at least it didn't forcibly clash with the narrative content.

This.

[Ghost]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

If I was presenting DA2 as "better", then I would have said so. I'm not. DA2 looks pretty terrible, especially in the cases where you look extremely closely at low-res NPCs that you can't interact with that exist solely for the purposes of making the world feel less empty. I totally agree that some parts of it are hideous.

What I am saying is that DAO was also ******-poor ugly quite often, for large swaths of the game. That you think it should be emulated in future games means that your taste is bad and you should feel bad.

I wasn't referring to the graphics. Graphically speaking both games look bad although I think Origins had better character faces while DA2 had better detailed enviroments which made things more pleasing to look at. What I was actually referring to what the art style direction of Origins and how shading was implemented along with color. The artstyle of Origins would look good on a new engine.

If you aren't referring to graphics, then why do you keep posting pictures of low-resolution non-interactable NPCs in DA2?

If you're going to compare one to the other, it's the best of the best, or the worst of the worst. Comparing the best of one to the worst of the other is just being dishonest.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Ghost1017 wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

robtheguru wrote...

DA2 definitely had a more 'cartooney' / anime feel to it which I wasn't all that fussed on. I still enjoyed the game dont get me wrong, but i'd much prefer they edge towards something that looks a bit more realistic. Or if they do decide to carry on from DA2, make it a bit darker, it was just way too bright.

They needed to make it ridiculously bright, thanks to all those lovely browns! haha

In all seriousness though, I have grumbled about the DA2 artstyle since I first saw all the way up until the present day...during this post in fact:  To me, cartoonish, stylized visuals do not mesh with the world of Thedas, which is one that is grounded in very real-world-mirroring socio-political issues such as racism, religion, and government.  In my opinion the art style should reflect the themes of the content, and DA2 is a complete failure in that regard.  I'm not campaigning for photorealism, but if it the visuals were to be placed on a sliding scale with full-cartoon at one end and photorealism at the other, it should definitely lean more toward photorealism.

DA:O was definitely lackluster and unimaginitave in terms of the visual aesthetics, but at least it didn't forcibly clash with the narrative content.

This.

Alternatively, the crisp graphic stylized-realism (its no more cartoony than DA:O) of DA2 better matches the playful anachronism of the series (that was also present in DA:O) which in turn sharply contrasts (and therefore highlights) the various heavy realistic topics addressed by the narrative.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 08 janvier 2013 - 09:30 .

[chrstnmonks]

Keep the artstyle of da2

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

DA:O didn't have an art style.

Sure it did. Every game has an art style.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

chrstnmonks wrote...

Keep the artstyle of da2

I'd be cool with the same art style but with better textures reflecting the capabilities of the new engine!

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

DA:O didn't have an art style.

Sure it did. Every game has an art style.

It had an art style in the way that water has flavor.

[sickpixie]

I didn't like the art style for either game. I hope the next one improves, but I won't really care too much if it doesn't.

[Danny Boy 7]

Vortex13 wrote...

axl99 wrote...

I will have to disagree. DAO Darkspawn are still visually orcs.

Going by the lore that each type of darkspawn is based on a race they came from, I'd rather go with the ones from DA2.

I can respect your opinion on the art styles. I just don't see how DA 2 Darkspawn fit with their lore.

How does a DA 2 Genlock Alpha = Corrupted dwarf? 

Sure the Shades in DA:O were only vaugely elven, but you still had some similarities. I expected the DA 2 Genlocks to pick up barrels and start throwing them at me, and that really hindered my immersion in the game.

Well the darkspawn are corrupted creatures, however the only ones that should really have a similar appearance to their uncorrupted counterparts are the magisters...if we're going by the lore that is. Broodmothers are mutated to the extent that they have very little resemblance to their former "humanity", So why should their "children" not also resemble mutated/primitive beasts with a small resemblance to their parent races.

I personally like both versions of the darkspawn, one has that nostalgia inducing feeling that made me feel like I was in a Tolkien-esque world and the other made me feel like I was in a unique world. Both have their pluses and minuses, however each new universe should try to be it's own addition to the genre.

The biggest issue I have with the transition/switch is that it messes with continuity. I can occassionally let that go, especially in the case of say Isabela where she really was rather generic until her redesign, but with the darkspawn being such a major...facet of the original game and it's DLC it was a bit jarring, especially since I started playing DA2 just minutes after finishing my "perfect" playthrough of Origins and it's DLC.

In a perfect world the devs would be able to explain through lore why the darkspawn during the blight looked so different from DA2's darkspawn. I'd settle for a...breed explanation. Where it's explained that like dogs the darkspawn have evolved into certain roles and through that their appearance reflects this. And it just so happens our individual heroes didn't run across certain types of darkspawn. But alas it's not a perfect world and that suggestion might cause just as many problems.

[upsettingshorts]

The darkspawn redesign has nothing on the Klingon redesign:

[Vortex13]

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...

axl99 wrote...

I will have to disagree. DAO Darkspawn are still visually orcs.

Going by the lore that each type of darkspawn is based on a race they came from, I'd rather go with the ones from DA2.

I can respect your opinion on the art styles. I just don't see how DA 2 Darkspawn fit with their lore.

How does a DA 2 Genlock Alpha = Corrupted dwarf? 

Sure the Shades in DA:O were only vaugely elven, but you still had some similarities. I expected the DA 2 Genlocks to pick up barrels and start throwing them at me, and that really hindered my immersion in the game.

Well the darkspawn are corrupted creatures, however the only ones that should really have a similar appearance to their uncorrupted counterparts are the magisters...if we're going by the lore that is. Broodmothers are mutated to the extent that they have very little resemblance to their former "humanity", So why should their "children" not also resemble mutated/primitive beasts with a small resemblance to their parent races.

I personally like both versions of the darkspawn, one has that nostalgia inducing feeling that made me feel like I was in a Tolkien-esque world and the other made me feel like I was in a unique world. Both have their pluses and minuses, however each new universe should try to be it's own addition to the genre.

The biggest issue I have with the transition/switch is that it messes with continuity. I can occassionally let that go, especially in the case of say Isabela where she really was rather generic until her redesign, but with the darkspawn being such a major...facet of the original game and it's DLC it was a bit jarring, especially since I started playing DA2 just minutes after finishing my "perfect" playthrough of Origins and it's DLC.

In a perfect world the devs would be able to explain through lore why the darkspawn during the blight looked so different from DA2's darkspawn. I'd settle for a...breed explanation. Where it's explained that like dogs the darkspawn have evolved into certain roles and through that their appearance reflects this. And it just so happens our individual heroes didn't run across certain types of darkspawn. But alas it's not a perfect world and that suggestion might cause just as many problems.

I was/am actually hoping that the Darkspawn design was mearly the Inquisitor's mind's eye seeing the world as Varric told his tale; complete with his way of precieving the world. In other words, DA 2 is mearly Varric's interpretation of the events surrounding the Champion of Kirkwall.

Everybody has their own tastes in the look of the Darkspawn, but IMO they looked way too pretty and cartoony in DA 2 considering their lore and backstory. To me the Darkspawn (lore and astetic-wise) were alot more intimidating in DA:O then they ever were in DA 2.

[Wulfram]

Bland isn't necessarily a bad thing in a video game art style. At the least, it's better than a distinctive style that doesn't support the story.

And I might argue it's more (sorry) immersive, because if you're admiring the art style - as distinct from just thinking something looks pretty - then you're stepping out of the the game world. And at least you might not be thinking "what is that cow catcher thing on his chest?" or "what the hell is up with their hair?"

[Swagger7]

I played on consoles, so the only consistent thing I noticed about DAO's art is that it was ugly. 

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Wulfram wrote...

Bland isn't necessarily a bad thing in a video game art style.

No.

Contrary to popular belief on BSN, people are attracted by attractive, well designed, unique things, and attracting people to your product is kind of important to being able survive and continue making video games.

At the least, it's better than a distinctive style that doesn't support the story.

If the tone of the art and story must always match or else its wrong and there's no possible justification for it (which there is in DA) then obviously Adventure Time should look like Fallout because it's a post-apocalyptic world.

Support != "match"

A contrasting aesthetic can actually make a dark, tense storyline even more dark and tense.

Imagine if the previous 60 hours of the game before the Broodmother hadn't been just as grimy and stupid as the area leading up to her? It'd have been so much more dramatic.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 08 janvier 2013 - 11:19 .

[craigdolphin]

Have to agree with the OP for the most part.

IMO the redesign of Elves and Darkspawn was unspeakably bad in DA2. The qunari redesign was pretty good, but suffered from a bad attack of clone-itis.

The environments were bland, empty, and uninteresting.

Human character models were pretty good in DA2 though, IMO. (Aside from the rubbish armor).

And the combat animations were irredeemably overblown and exagerated.

I have little hope that DAI will actually deviate from the path they forged with DA2 though. I suspect it'll take another sales-let-down for Bioware to be forced to actually revisit their top level design document that they implemented for DA2. If that happens then hopefully they'll admit the issues are much more serious than trying to paper over the cracks as they appear to be giving every indication of doing right now.