367 réponses à ce sujet

[CronoDragoon]

Belisarius25 wrote...
Both the VS characters get upset about it (Ashley cries and says Tali was like a sister to her, Kaidan remarks on the cruelty of what happened - admittedly in a somewhat general way - and how he doesn't like the Geth; both are explictly in favor of you if you side with the quarians specifically because they dont like the Geth). I think Liara isn't happy either but I'm too lazy to double check, I'd imagine Joker is the same. And yeah, Javik is pretty pissed.


As for why this is a strike against Garrus? This is a topic about Garrus' popularity, and I think at least some of it is due to the fact that he's presented as a blank slate that doesn't question you and accepts whatever you do. This flaw isn't unique to Garrus (it's true of most of the important characters in ME/Bioware RPGs and is a common trait in a lot of games where characterization matters). 

To put it more succintly, his unbreakably loyalty is a feature of his character for many/most players. For me it's a bit of a bug. I don't expect people to feel the same way. I think 95% of Garrus is written very well, I just wish his friendship with Shepard (which I don't mind being a bit forced on the player, others may disagree) had a bit more nuance to it.

Okay, fair enough. I choose to see it that Garrus trusts Shepard's judgement and has mounds of empirical evidence to support this trust. I'd also point out that the VS often acts out emotionally, and it got them on the wrong side of Shepard's gun on the Cerberus invasion mission, so their independence has both negative and positive consequences just like you could see Garrus and Tali's loyalty.

I did not know that part about Ashley crying about Tali, but man that's rough. Good thing I'd never choose the geth!

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Because even Shepard would miss that shot for Garrus.

[Dr_Extrem]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Because even Shepard would miss that shot for Garrus.

nope .. becuase this contest has to go on and on .. until shep and garrus are too old, to hold the rifle.

[SilentK]

Tootles FTW wrote...

- He follows his own beliefs, yet is respectful towards Shepard.
- He's the most humorous of the squaddies.
- He has useful abilities in combat.
- Dat voice.
- Dem mandibles.
He's badass but not cocky/showy about it (though I personally wouldn't mind him being cocky-showy with my FemShep IFYOUKNOWWHATI'MSAYIN').
- He's 100% loyal to Shepard, yet at the same time retains an identity beyond the Normandy. I never felt that Garrus only existed within the sphere of Shepard.

Dat voice, Dem mandibles indeed! Haven't even gotten through Tuchanka yet and I'm allready smitten     can't wait for the Citadel-date!
So far this 1:st time romancing Garrus PT is going stellar. *cough* Ohh... I am also saving the galxy btw..




*snip*

StayFrosty05 wrote...
Never touched her in ME1 myself...didn'r like her at all...ME3 though....just WOW!...Ash is very cool....[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie]....From
what I am gathering unfortunately it doesn't make much of a diffenrence
as to whenther you ramonace Ash in ME1 all the way through, or just
ME2....I would have liked to have seen those who stuck by her through
the series get a little extra something.

Me likey      this sounds great. Ohh.. does she have to be romanced to see the cool side. Hoping to have a Sisters-In-Arms-thing or something like that with Ash?

Modifié par SilentK, 08 janvier 2013 - 09:48 .

[10K]

Because Garrus is Garrus, and there's no Shepard without Vakarian...DUH!!

[Argolas]

mosesarose wrote...

Because Garrus is Garrus, and there's no Shepard without Vakarian...DUH!!

Actually, you can have a playthrough where Garrus is only in your squad in ME2...

[FlyingSquirrel]

Garrus isn't my very favorite squadmate, but I'd say one thing BW got right was that they made him a character who knows the right way to joke about things - that is to say, he can be deadly serious when the situation calls for it, and never crosses into "not the right time" territory (like Joker with the asari joke after Thessia), while still sometimes being funny in pretty grim or challenging circumstances.

[Dean_the_Young]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Garrus is popular for much the same reason Anderson is: he's a nominal badass who never shows up, seriously contests, or personally challenges Shepard while remaining unwaveringly supportive and frequently complimentary.

There is no personal friction between Shepard and Garrus, as Garrus is properly contrite and quickly capitulates to Shepard's point of view even during Garrus's temporary development in ME1, and afterwards there's no crisis point at which Garrus wavers from canon-friend-supportive territory. Even admitting to murdering Mordin doesn't spark an accusation aimed at the player.

I'd call that being a good judge of character.

Why would killing Mordin of all things spark his anger? Garrus in ME3 is the character constantly poking Shepard about the realities of war and pragmatism vs. idealism.

The problem (if you even think it's such: YMMV) isn't that Garrus doesn't go 'how could you I hate you I hate you', but rather that there is nothing in the game that will spark Garrus to confront Shepard. No decision, however big or small: killing friends and comrads, genocide, fate of nation choices... nothing does it. Mordin is just an example of, well, everything in the game.

Garrus lacks an identity independent of Shepard because Garrus ends up agreeing or accepting everything Shepard does, same with Anderson. While such characters (and Anderson in particular) are supposed to be Men of Principle, who won't bend their beliefs even if it means breaking the rules, but in practice they are yes-men for the players.

[Dean_the_Young]

CronoDragoon wrote...

StayFrosty05 wrote...
Its' because the female characters have three types only....ruthless or needy or a combination of both....a woman does not have to be ruthless to be strong (am female myself)....and feel the mostly male crew of BW writers really missied the mark....They finally got it much righter...not perfect, but much closer with ME3 Ash.

This isn't fair. Tali is neither ruthless nor needy. The two times you help her, she was planning on doing things by herself until Shepard decided he was going to help. Remember on the loyalty mission she was planning to book passage on a separate ship and fly back to face the treason trial by herself.

Tali does take on a damsel in distress role, though, on pretty much all her introductions to the player: she needs Shepard to save her life, her team, her mission, her citizenship, or her entire species: pretty much every encounter or plotline that involves Tali centers around resolving problems she can't or doesn't resolve on her own.

[kalasaurus]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Because even Shepard would miss that shot for Garrus.

I made the shot.

Jerk.

[Sousabird]

Mordin and Garrus are both great but for different reasons, example Mordin is funny but at the same time it's because of how serious he is whereas Garrus is someone who I feel is easy to see as one of my friends because him and Tali wind up feeling like the most normal people

[Han Shot First]

samgurl775 wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...
With that said I also love Kaidan for standing up for what he believes in and butting heads with Shepard about Cerberus.

It's amusing that Ashley gets hated for the exact same thing. 

That's because Ashley is woman who needs to know her place.

[Dr_Extrem]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

GlassElephant wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Because even Shepard would miss that shot for Garrus.

I made the shot.

Jerk.

Garrus wouldn't want to win an illegitimate victory. He'd want me to do my best.

And it's not like he's got such a fragile self-esteem that he needs the ego boost.

bring on the klixen ... this is not over yet. giving garrus such a "gift", would be an insult to him.

my sniper-shepard and garrus are equels. this contest will go on until the end of time.

[kalasaurus]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

GlassElephant wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Because even Shepard would miss that shot for Garrus.

I made the shot.

Jerk.

Garrus wouldn't want to win an illegitimate victory. He'd want me to do my best.

And it's not like he's got such a fragile self-esteem that he needs the ego boost.

Meh, if you say so.  I just like making him happy 

[Dr_Extrem]

GlassElephant wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

GlassElephant wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Because even Shepard would miss that shot for Garrus.

I made the shot.

Jerk.

Garrus wouldn't want to win an illegitimate victory. He'd want me to do my best.

And it's not like he's got such a fragile self-esteem that he needs the ego boost.

Meh, if you say so.  I just like making him happy 

come back alive and shoot the next basket of bottles with him together. THIS would make him happier. 

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 08 janvier 2013 - 11:10 .

[CronoDragoon]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
]Tali does take on a damsel in distress role, though, on pretty much all her introductions to the player: she needs Shepard to save her life, her team, her mission, her citizenship, or her entire species: pretty much every encounter or plotline that involves Tali centers around resolving problems she can't or doesn't resolve on her own.

That's a consequence of game design where the player needs to be the one to resolve all issues. Very few games deviate from this (Final Fantasy Tactics comes to mind) but when you have an interactive fiction with only one point of view, that's what has to happen. I don't see her needing help as a failure of her character or the writing; rather I see her willingness to deal with it herself to be a strength of character and writing. Plus, she isn't stupid. If the goddamn Shepard is offering to help, she should say yes.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 08 janvier 2013 - 11:28 .

[CronoDragoon]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Garrus lacks an identity independent of Shepard because Garrus ends up agreeing or accepting everything Shepard does, same with Anderson. While such characters (and Anderson in particular) are supposed to be Men of Principle, who won't bend their beliefs even if it means breaking the rules, but in practice they are yes-men for the players.

Garrus isn't a man of principle, though. Why does he hate C-Sec and ultimately leave it? Because they couldn't get things done, because red tape got in the way of locking up criminals, because vigilantism is pragmatically better for his goals. Garrus is first and foremost concerned with getting the job done. Shepard is the master of getting the job done, so it makes sense to me that Garrus will become his ultimate bro.

That being said, I agree with you that conflict could have been used to highlight possible differences between Garrus and Shepard. Because there is so little tension between them, their relationship is usually enjoyable (especially with Garrus's sense of humor) but rarely interesting or compelling.

[Seboist]

VA and visual design mostly, that and his recruitment mission was one of the best missions in ME2(dug interacting with the sesame street merc head honchos beforehand and doing some sabotage before fighting them).

I don't personally care too much about him but here's preferable to some others(ex. Liara and EDI).