218 réponses à ce sujet

[fiendishchicken]

Occam's Razor everyone.

The reason Harby doesn't shoot is because Bioware says...

Seriously, don't try to find a reason for it. It is what it is.

It was made because "Screw the lore and story , it looks cool!"

Bad writing in abundance.

Modifié par fiendishchicken, 08 janvier 2013 - 04:28 .

[kalasaurus]

Harby should have lasered the Normandy and killed EVERYONE inside- Joker, the squad, the crew. Yes, that would make EC better

[GreyLycanTrope]

fiendishchicken wrote...

Occam's Razor everyone.

The reason Harby doesn't shoot is because Bioware says...

Seriously, don't try to find a reason for it. It is what it is.

It was made because "Screw the lore and story , it looks cool!"

Bad writing in abundance.

QFT

[L337LYC4N]

GlassElephant wrote...

Harby should have lasered the Normandy and killed EVERYONE inside- Joker, the squad, the crew. Yes, that would make EC better

Or at least a low readiness ending, with Shepard having to watch everybody die as the ship crashes from taking a point-blank shot from where he is on the ground.

[JBPBRC]

L337LYC4N wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

VirginBlack wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

Reaper IFF doesn't work. Its only real application was fooling the Omega-4 Relay.

Right and the Collectors (Harbinger) attack you right after you go through it.

Exactly. Hell, while we're on this topic, the stealth system on the Normandy doesn't even work against Reapers either! Even the Collectors can see right through the damn thing! How is the Normandy managing to do all the things it does again?

Holy crap. I completely forgot about how that's ineffective against both of them...when you put it like that, it's almost like they intentionally allowed Shepard to build up false hope in saving the galaxy.

Meh. Silly Reapers are silly.

[fiendishchicken]

GlassElephant wrote...

Harby should have lasered the Normandy and killed EVERYONE inside- Joker, the squad, the crew. Yes, that would make EC better

I'd prefer if the Normandy survived (with Joker and a handful of others).

It just burns off the alliance paintjob.

It gets space magick'd into being the Cerberus SR-2.

All the alliance crewmembers aboard (minus Joker) are killed violently, gruesomely, and incredibly painfully. The only survivors are Joker, Dr. Michel, Donnelly, Daniels.

It also doesn't pick up my other team from the Fob (Fob, BW. Fob. Not EFF-OH-BEE. Fob). 

And Liara and Tali get vaporized.

[L337LYC4N]

JBPBRC wrote...

L337LYC4N wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

VirginBlack wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

Reaper IFF doesn't work. Its only real application was fooling the Omega-4 Relay.

Right and the Collectors (Harbinger) attack you right after you go through it.

Exactly. Hell, while we're on this topic, the stealth system on the Normandy doesn't even work against Reapers either! Even the Collectors can see right through the damn thing! How is the Normandy managing to do all the things it does again?

Holy crap. I completely forgot about how that's ineffective against both of them...when you put it like that, it's almost like they intentionally allowed Shepard to build up false hope in saving the galaxy.

Meh. Silly Reapers are silly.

Have to amuse yourself somehow, I suppose.

[JBPBRC]

Speaking of Reaper IFFs and the Omega-4 Relay, is it ever really demonstrated the IFF is what kept the Normandy alive? And not say...Joker's piloting skills?

Was it ever nothing more than an assumption that the Omega-4 Relay just needed an IFF, and that maybe the real reason no scout had ever come back wasn't because they lacked an IFF, but because of the black holes, floating ship graveyard with hazardous debris everywhere, and the presence of the Collectors?

[L337LYC4N]

JBPBRC wrote...

Speaking of Reaper IFFs and the Omega-4 Relay, is it ever really demonstrated the IFF is what kept the Normandy alive? And not say...Joker's piloting skills?

Was it ever nothing more than an assumption that the Omega-4 Relay just needed an IFF, and that maybe the real reason no scout had ever come back wasn't because they lacked an IFF, but because of the black holes, floating ship graveyard with hazardous debris everywhere, and the presence of the Collectors?

That may be a possibility, or the fact that the scouts didn't have the ship upgrades required, since the Normandy does take substantial damage (resulting in squad deaths due to said damage) despite Joker's ability.

[Argolas]

I think all in all, the ending was too rushed so no one really thought about how your Squaddies get back on the Normandy, leaving not many possibilities to fix that afterwards.

Anyway, I think that scene has worse problems than Harbinger not attacking, and I'm not talking about the Normandy being there in only 5 seconds when it is supposed to be taking part in the battle. One of the worst scenes of the whole franchise IMO is the evacuation of EDI. We know that her body is just an expendable tool that can only function as long as the Normandy (where EDI actually is) stays in communication range, and EDI even explains that when Shepard is trying to evacuate her, but Shepard only is like "STFU with your logic!". It even gets better when "Throw all Synthetics out of the airlock" Javik risks his life while helping to get that expendable sexbot back on the Normandy. Way to much ooc in there.

My point: The EC tried to make excuses for some plot holes and created potentially even worse ones by doing so, and it won't get much better when we fans try to make more excuses for those.

[Argolas]

JBPBRC wrote...

Speaking of Reaper IFFs and the Omega-4 Relay, is it ever really demonstrated the IFF is what kept the Normandy alive? And not say...Joker's piloting skills?

Was it ever nothing more than an assumption that the Omega-4 Relay just needed an IFF, and that maybe the real reason no scout had ever come back wasn't because they lacked an IFF, but because of the black holes, floating ship graveyard with hazardous debris everywhere, and the presence of the Collectors?

As far as I recall, the IFF somehow allowed us to access "more advanced protocols" that make more precise Mass Relay jumps possible so we at least were able to end up in the "safe" zone without black holes and stuff. I guess the other ships in the graveyard where lucky enough to end up on the right spot but then crushed into debris or where killed by collectors.

[Pick a color]

Kinda ridiculous how Bioware can write something so bad that fans have to comb through every conversation just to try to bail them out. Same goes for people combing through ME1 trying to find some some form of justification for the Crucible or the Catalyst.

[Ithurael]

Pick a color wrote...

Kinda ridiculous how Bioware can write something so bad that fans have to comb through every conversation just to try to bail them out. Same goes for people combing through ME1 trying to find some some form of justification for the Crucible or the Catalyst.

With enough headcanon anything is possible

See:

Why didn't harbinger shoot the normandy?
- it wasn't a priority, the people rushing the beam were
- He couldn't see it cause reaper IFF
- he wants to indoctrinate shep

Why did harbinger leave after zapping shep?
- to catch the normandy, he left his servents to gather sheps body
- it was a dream sequence

How did the squadmates get on the normandy (all squadmates)?
- After picking up the injured squaddies, joke made a trip to pick up the rest of your team

Why didn't the catalyst open the citadel in ME1?
- He didn't want to, he is an observer that does not interfere directly, merely 'pulls the strings'

see? headcanon!

[FlyingSquirrel]

This may be overly simplistic, but I actually thought of something new when I just got to that part again a couple days ago:

How quickly can the Reapers re-target those laser beams they use?

Because, watching it again, it's clear that Harbinger is oriented to fire at the ground in that sequence in order to pick off the soldiers and tanks as they run towards the beam. Normandy briefly touches down, but it's behind the wrecked tanks at the time. After that...maybe it's just too far up in the air and leaves too quickly for Harbinger to adjust its aim upwards?

Seems like almost too easy an explanation, I know, but Harbinger doesn't fire upwards at any point, and the glowing red circular structure that it uses to fire does appear to be oriented in a certain direction as opposed to just being able to aim the laser beams any which way.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Argolas wrote...
Anyway, I think that scene has worse problems than Harbinger not attacking, and I'm not talking about the Normandy being there in only 5 seconds when it is supposed to be taking part in the battle. One of the worst scenes of the whole franchise IMO is the evacuation of EDI. We know that her body is just an expendable tool that can only function as long as the Normandy (where EDI actually is) stays in communication range, and EDI even explains that when Shepard is trying to evacuate her, but Shepard only is like "STFU with your logic!". It even gets better when "Throw all Synthetics out of the airlock" Javik risks his life while helping to get that expendable sexbot back on the Normandy. Way to much ooc in there.

Does that really happen?? I never had EDI with me on the final run since the EC came out, but I had assumed that if I did, the other squadmate would be the one injured and EDI would be the one dragging the injured party back to the ship.

[Tootles FTW]

Because Harbinger left his glasses in dark space. 

[JBPBRC]

FlyingSquirrel wrote...

This may be overly simplistic, but I actually thought of something new when I just got to that part again a couple days ago:

How quickly can the Reapers re-target those laser beams they use?

Very quickly, considering that he's crossing the streams at every moving target running towards the beam. Well, until the Normandy shows up anyway.

Because, watching it again, it's clear that Harbinger is oriented to fire at the ground in that sequence in order to pick off the soldiers and tanks as they run towards the beam. Normandy briefly touches down, but it's behind the wrecked tanks at the time. After that...maybe it's just too far up in the air and leaves too quickly for Harbinger to adjust its aim upwards?

Eh. Even the Destroyers in the beginning were able to tilt up quickly enough to catch a small moving shuttlecraft. Should be no problem for Harbinger with his pinpoint accuracy at picking off individual running people.

Seems like almost too easy an explanation, I know, but Harbinger doesn't fire upwards at any point, and the glowing red circular structure that it uses to fire does appear to be oriented in a certain direction as opposed to just being able to aim the laser beams any which way.

Eh. Even the Destroyers in the beginning were able to tilt up quickly enough to catch a small moving shuttlecraft. Should be no problem for Harbinger with his pinpoint accuracy at picking off individual running people.

[JBPBRC]

FlyingSquirrel wrote...

Argolas wrote...
Anyway, I think that scene has worse problems than Harbinger not attacking, and I'm not talking about the Normandy being there in only 5 seconds when it is supposed to be taking part in the battle. One of the worst scenes of the whole franchise IMO is the evacuation of EDI. We know that her body is just an expendable tool that can only function as long as the Normandy (where EDI actually is) stays in communication range, and EDI even explains that when Shepard is trying to evacuate her, but Shepard only is like "STFU with your logic!". It even gets better when "Throw all Synthetics out of the airlock" Javik risks his life while helping to get that expendable sexbot back on the Normandy. Way to much ooc in there.

Does that really happen?? I never had EDI with me on the final run since the EC came out, but I had assumed that if I did, the other squadmate would be the one injured and EDI would be the one dragging the injured party back to the ship.

Yes, yes it can really happen.

[Robhuzz]

Bioware didn't think that scene through the first time they worked on it. They then stated that the ending was fine and there were no mistakes made... artistic integrity, proud...75 perfect reviews etc etc.

They couldn't go around actively CHANGING the scene for that would violate their earlier arguments about people only wanting more closure and being upset about that. So they had to fix that part of a broken scene with something that... added a few new holes.

I'm not going to think of an 'in game' reason for Harbinger not attacking, there isn't any, it's just the writers deciding he should not attack the Normandy at that point.

Kinda ridiculous how Bioware can write something so bad that fans have to comb through every conversation just to try to bail them out. Same goes for people combing through ME1 trying to find some some form of justification for the Crucible or the Catalyst.

It is. I'd call it dedication to the franchise for wanting to clear it up for yourself that badly, and a testament to what the ME franchise (pre ME3 in my case) managed to stir up. But most of it is just grasping as straws in an attempt to desperately make sense of something that simply doesn't make any.

Modifié par Robhuzz, 08 janvier 2013 - 06:01 .

[JBPBRC]

Robhuzz wrote...

Bioware didn't think that scene through the first time they worked on it. They then stated that the ending was fine and there were no mistakes made... artistic integrity, proud...75 perfect reviews etc etc.

They couldn't go around actively CHANGING the scene for that would violate their earlier arguments about people only wanting more closure and being upset about that. So they had to fix that part of a broken scene with something that... added a few new holes.

I'm not going to think of an 'in game' reason for Harbinger not attacking, there isn't any, it's just the writers deciding he should not attack the Normandy at that point.

Modifié par JBPBRC, 08 janvier 2013 - 06:02 .

[Argolas]

FlyingSquirrel wrote...

Argolas wrote...
Anyway, I think that scene has worse problems than Harbinger not attacking, and I'm not talking about the Normandy being there in only 5 seconds when it is supposed to be taking part in the battle. One of the worst scenes of the whole franchise IMO is the evacuation of EDI. We know that her body is just an expendable tool that can only function as long as the Normandy (where EDI actually is) stays in communication range, and EDI even explains that when Shepard is trying to evacuate her, but Shepard only is like "STFU with your logic!". It even gets better when "Throw all Synthetics out of the airlock" Javik risks his life while helping to get that expendable sexbot back on the Normandy. Way to much ooc in there.

Does that really happen?? I never had EDI with me on the final run since the EC came out, but I had assumed that if I did, the other squadmate would be the one injured and EDI would be the one dragging the injured party back to the ship.

Here's an example of the scene I found on Youtube. Instead of James, the other one can as well be Javik. Note that Shepard sends EDI away with a "moral order" and that's the renegade option.

Edit: Nevermind, I found a version with Javik. Includes both Paragon and Renegade dialogue which are about equally stupid.

Modifié par Argolas, 08 janvier 2013 - 06:14 .

[2112.rush]

IMNOTCRAZYiminsane wrote...

OMFG YES so ugh.... fixing a plothole with a bigger plothole is -__-

It creates a singularity into which all remaining narrative sense is sucked.

Modifié par 2112.rush, 08 janvier 2013 - 06:20 .

[The Night Mammoth]

He forgot to put his contacts in.

No really, that's probably the most logical explanation I can come up with.

[CronoDragoon]

Who cares? Did all of you also complain when no Reapers shot the Normandy on Earth at the beginning of the game? Of course not, because that would have been stupid.

[2112.rush]

I feel the need to point something out to all those who say the "Harbinger was shooting at those running for the beam, because the Normandy wasn't a threat."

If you look and listen closely to the evac scene, you will not hear Harbinger firing, and at one point, you see Harby, and HE'S JUST SITTING THERE DOING NOTHING.