218 réponses à ce sujet

[CronoDragoon]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

I'm not entirely sure why this isn't a plot hole. 

Something happens a certain way that's important to the plot without a given explanation that conflicts with the consistency of the story.

It's not a matter of "given" explanation or not; it's question of "is there" an explanation? In this case, yes. For plot holes, no.

Of course, people tend to fancy their own definitions for things such as these, so it's largely a semantic distinction at this point.

[BeastSaver]

themikefest wrote...

It is one of the funniest(and silliest) scenes in the game.The only way that would've made sense is to have Harbinger firing on the Normandy causing it to blow up. This would happen with low ems. With high ems just have femshep move your squadmates to cover,then have one of the squadmates call for extraction when Harbinger leaves

With low EMS your squad mates are killed. No need for evac.

[CronoDragoon]

That is not to say this scene is without issues, but if I were to complain I think Shepard surviving a dreadnaught-destroying beam to the mug would be #1.

[archangel1996]

Again, low EMS they are killed but not Shep, because s/he is Shepard and s/he can not be killed in a such unheroic way

Modifié par archangel1996, 08 janvier 2013 - 08:08 .

[The Night Mammoth]

CronoDragoon wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

I'm not entirely sure why this isn't a plot hole. 

Something happens a certain way that's important to the plot without a given explanation that conflicts with the consistency of the story.

It's not a matter of "given" explanation or not; it's question of "is there" an explanation? In this case, yes. For plot holes, no.

Of course, people tend to fancy their own definitions for things such as these, so it's largely a semantic distinction at this point.

There is no explanation though, hence the plot hole. 

[JasonShepard]

archangel1996 wrote...

1- Alliance Dreadnought(war ship)-one hit-farewell dreadnought...obviulst the Normandy would resist the shoot because the Normandy is the Normandy And again, Harbinger is too busy killing three poor Christs running for their lifes
Yeah near direct hit, Shepard is kind of special, so Harbinger does not hit him/her like everyone else....

1-hit KO in space, as opposed to on Earth where a substantial amount of the Largest-of-the-Reapers' power is devoted to making sure he doesn't collapse like a sky-scraper on demolition day.

2- Yeah, in ME2 Harbinger is kind of obsessionated with Shep and in ME3 it lets him be beacuse he is too busy killing the 3 poor Christs that i already nominated

Prioritisation, as I said. Harbinger is not stupid, and he has more important things to worry about.

3- ?
4- Again....

Put it this way - you usually aim with your eyes, right? Not a secondary sense, like your ears (although there are people who can). To Harbinger, visible light is a secondary sense, since he primarily works in space in infrared (and note, for non-stealthed stuff, like people, infrared would work quite well).

5- You are right, EDI hacking something like the Reapers is very very possible(the same EDI who was surprised by the geth)

She has active codes and she only needs to hack one system. She probably can't hack it for very long, but the entire scene is only a minute or two.

this can work if i pretend that Harbinger and the Reapers are weak and stupid beings

No, they simply have more important things to be worrying about. Speaking of which: Time for Dinner!

[CronoDragoon]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

There is no explanation though, hence the plot hole. 

Yes, there is. Harbinger is there to stop people entering the beam. Why would he even risk targeting Normandy when there are dozens of troops near the beam already when the Normandy is not?

That's the explanation. You don't think it's good enough, fine. But now it's  not of contradiction of facts, which is a plothole.

[VirginBlack]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Yes, there is. Harbinger is there to stop people entering the beam. Why would he even risk targeting Normandy when there are dozens of troops near the beam already when the Normandy is not?

That's the explanation. You don't think it's good enough, fine. But now it's  not of contradiction of facts, which is a plothole.

Yes and the Normandy was evacuating people and taking them AWAY from the beam, so in a sense it was serving Harbinger's purposes.

[JBPBRC]

CronoDragoon wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

There is no explanation though, hence the plot hole. 

Yes, there is. Harbinger is there to stop people entering the beam. Why would he even risk targeting Normandy when there are dozens of troops near the beam already when the Normandy is not?

That's the explanation. You don't think it's good enough, fine. But now it's  not of contradiction of facts, which is a plothole.

Given that Harbinger ignores people still crawling/stumbling (or in the case of Anderson, people who aren't even injured at all) towards the beam as he leaves, I don't think this is a good enough reason. He stopped the majority of the ground force, sure, but he failed in his mission to stop all of them.

[CronoDragoon]

JBPBRC wrote...

Given that Harbinger ignores people still crawling/stumbling (or in the case of Anderson, people who aren't even injured at all) towards the beam as he leaves, I don't think this is a good enough reason. He stopped the majority of the ground force, sure, but he failed in his mission to stop all of them.

I'm confused. Are you denying that Harbinger was there to stop people from entering the beam or that he just did a crappy job of it? I agree with the latter, but that doesn't affect the integrity of the explanation.

[Someone With Mass]

Harbinger's logic: That ship looks a lot like the one I destroyed three years ago and the one Shepard used to go through the Omega 4 mass relay and destroy my Collector base. But its intelligence keeps telling me that humans are doomed and that we are their way to ascension. Seems legit.

[JBPBRC]

CronoDragoon wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

Given that Harbinger ignores people still crawling/stumbling (or in the case of Anderson, people who aren't even injured at all) towards the beam as he leaves, I don't think this is a good enough reason. He stopped the majority of the ground force, sure, but he failed in his mission to stop all of them.

I'm confused. Are you denying that Harbinger was there to stop people from entering the beam or that he just did a crappy job of it? I agree with the latter, but that doesn't affect the integrity of the explanation.

I think "failed in his mission" qualifies as him doing a crappy job, yes.

Aside from that, I would think the most powerful Reaper in the entire collection has ample firepower to target the Normandy. Hell, even a parting shot that only shook the Normandy up a bit would've worked. Complete nonaction on Harbinger's part is horrendously stupid.

[Yate]

All he needed to do was stop the bulk of the forces

TIM is powerful enough to render a few stragglers completely useless

[JBPBRC]

Yate wrote...

All he needed to do was stop the bulk of the forces

TIM is powerful enough to render a few stragglers completely useless

...That didn't work out too well for TIM. Or Maruader Shields for that matter.

The glory of Marauder Shields aside, relying on Saren 2.0 as your sole remaining defense is...problematic.

[CronoDragoon]

JBPBRC wrote...
Aside from that, I would think the most powerful Reaper in the entire collection has ample firepower to target the Normandy.

When the Normandy is clearly not a threat to 1. enter the beam or 2. destroy him? Why bother? It's just a ship.

Hell, even a parting shot that only shook the Normandy up a bit would've worked. Complete nonaction on Harbinger's part is horrendously stupid.

The Normandy wasn't there when Harbinger was leaving. And Harbinger was acting all right, just not on the Normandy.

[Yate]

JBPBRC wrote...

Yate wrote...

All he needed to do was stop the bulk of the forces

TIM is powerful enough to render a few stragglers completely useless

...That didn't work out too well for TIM. Or Maruader Shields for that matter.

The glory of Marauder Shields aside, relying on Saren 2.0 as your sole remaining defense is...problematic.

what, an indoctrinated slave capable of moving two people around like puppets without breaking a sweat?

if TIM hadn't fallen into the classic villain monologue trap Shep and Andy wouldn't have stood a chance.

[CronoDragoon]

JBPBRC wrote...

The glory of Marauder Shields aside, relying on Saren 2.0 as your sole remaining defense is...problematic.

Shepard's headshot of MS was like Paris hitting Achilles with an arrow.

[JBPBRC]

CronoDragoon wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...
Aside from that, I would think the most powerful Reaper in the entire collection has ample firepower to target the Normandy.

When the Normandy is clearly not a threat to 1. enter the beam or 2. destroy him? Why bother? It's just a ship.

Not just any ship. Shepard's ship. And Shepard's standing right next to it. You know, the focus of Harbinger's attentions since ME2. That Shepard.

Hell, even a parting shot that only shook the Normandy up a bit would've worked. Complete nonaction on Harbinger's part is horrendously stupid.

The Normandy wasn't there when Harbinger was leaving. And Harbinger was acting all right, just not on the Normandy.

Talking about Harbinger even attempting a shot at the Normandy at any point during the evac scene.

Modifié par JBPBRC, 08 janvier 2013 - 08:54 .

[wright1978]

Maybe Harbinger decided(had clairvoyance) that the Normandy was doing his job for him as that certainly seems to be indicated by the fact that it removes people from the beam charge and doesn't add reinforcements or any covering fire.

Modifié par wright1978, 08 janvier 2013 - 08:54 .

[JBPBRC]

Yate wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

Yate wrote...

All he needed to do was stop the bulk of the forces

TIM is powerful enough to render a few stragglers completely useless

...That didn't work out too well for TIM. Or Maruader Shields for that matter.

The glory of Marauder Shields aside, relying on Saren 2.0 as your sole remaining defense is...problematic.

what, an indoctrinated slave capable of moving two people around like puppets without breaking a sweat?

if TIM hadn't fallen into the classic villain monologue trap Shep and Andy wouldn't have stood a chance.

Except TIM always monologues. That, and still relying on just one person is foolhardy. Imagine if TIM *and* Marauder Shields had been in the same room. TIM mind controls, MS guns them down. Reaper victory secured.

CronoDragoon wrote...

Shepard's headshot of MS was like Paris hitting Achilles with an arrow.

What? TIM is Saren 2.0, not MS.

[VirginBlack]

Yate wrote...

All he needed to do was stop the bulk of the forces

TIM is powerful enough to render a few stragglers completely useless

Good point, I had not taken TIM (or the husks and Maruader Shields before you enter the beam) into consideration.

[CronoDragoon]

JBPBRC wrote...

Not just any ship. Shepard's ship. And Shepard's standing right next to it. You know, the focus of Harbinger's attentions since ME2. That Shepard.

Oh man, I could see the threads now. "Harbinger is stupid why he want to fight Shepard and allowed someone to get into beam???"

[JBPBRC]

CronoDragoon wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

Not just any ship. Shepard's ship. And Shepard's standing right next to it. You know, the focus of Harbinger's attentions since ME2. That Shepard.

Oh man, I could see the threads now. "Harbinger is stupid why he want to fight Shepard and allowed someone to get into beam???"

He *does* have more than one lazor. 

[VirginBlack]

JBPBRC wrote...

Talking about Harbinger even attempting a shot at the Normandy at any point during the evac scene.

Why would he bother? The Normandy was not opening fire and was actually taking people away from the beam.

[CronoDragoon]

JBPBRC wrote...

What? TIM is Saren 2.0, not MS.

I was talking about how awesome Marauder Shields was. I am sure Harbinger was counting on him more than TIM. How could he have predicted that Shepard would find his weak spot? (his head)